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First off, thank you very much for this well thought out and detailed message!
So a few things to touch on here. Her and I have not gone anywhere much in public since the pandemic started and we both work at the same place so there isn't much room for cheating from her end.
She certainly does not lack from self esteem, however I do.
We take it very seriously and have been together for nearly 19 years.
Technically we don't see each other as the top priority, our kids being happy and healthy is.
She has no fear whatsoever of losing me. I am completely open to her and basically anyone else who asks. I told her about this guy asking me to do things. I wanted nothing to do with it other than admitting I thought his voice was incredible. She told me I should go for it and see how I feel about it. I turned it down for about a week while I thought about it. After the week ended we talked again and she said it doesn't bother her and she just thinks of it as watching p*rn.
She is not replaceable to me. She is my other half. Im nothing without her. That doesn't mean thoughts and fantasies can't exist outside of her.
There is no back up at hand. He is in another state, I have no idea what he looks like and don't care to. He is just the voice on the other side of the headset.
Hi! Sorry for the late response. I'm really impressed that you two have been together that long. I hope my own relationship gets that far and beyond.
I read your points and I think I understand. I think the simplest thing to do (if you still care for an opinion) is to ask yourself how you would react/feel if the positions were reversed i. e. your partner seemed mildly interested in some stranger. I am personally quite protective/possessive. You might not be. Thus I feel the best solution is doing what seems right to you, and for your partner (if you put yourself in their shoes). You have a lot more experience than me being in a loving long-term relationship, so I don't think my advice would be as good as the honest one you can give yourself.
All the best, Senpai! :D
First off, thank you so much for both the compliment and your response 😊
Before this all began I would have been 100% against it even for myself to do. It just didn't make sense to me. I was very much in the camp of marriage is between 2 people. When she suggested that I try to go explore my sexuality a bit it threw me for a loop. I actually was initially hurt by it thinking she was trying to push me away but the more we talked the more I realized that she was telling me it was ok because she loves me and wants me to grow as a person.
So when you ask if I would be ok if she did it, my honest answer is that I trust her on this. I may not be as comfortable with it as she is, but if we can't encourage our partners growth then we can't enjoy the full potential they can offer.
It's not right for everyone. I fully get that. It could end up being a mistake or it could open up something in me I didn't know was there and help me be more assertive in my life. Either way, I am glad she is with me on this journey of self discovery. I couldn't ask for a better partner.
All the best to you and yours!
It definitely feels odd but slowly it's just becoming more comfortable and becoming just another part of our life. I dont feel anything for the guy and I dont feel any less than I did before for her. In some ways its even stronger than it was before.
Just me currently. I've asked if she would like to join us but she isn't comfortable doing it yet but she hasn't ruled it out. She and I have been doing it ourselves just so she gets comfortable with how it works over a phone/voice chat but then she might end up joining in.
We have also talked about being with a 3rd irl. She is not ok with bringing in a 3rd woman, but she would be ok if it were a guy. Im not entirely on board with that one yet because I'm not attracted to guys physically. Right now I'm still trying to adjust to being into voice play with a guy.
A small part of it yes. I think most of it though is that I just always thought marriage was supposed to be between two people who care about one another and that's it. Im finding that it isn't so black and white as that. I think its more guilt getting past an idealized fantasy at this point. Also a part of it is guilt at wondering how she was even ok with it to begin with.
@Ez-Bri-Z - you claimed your partner isn't a doormat? Allowing someone to cheat is the definition of a doormat. Low self esteem, low self respect. Under the impression that you can't get any better than a cheater. Doormat, fall-back when the flavour of the month doesn't work out, etc. Doesn't matter what you call the uncheating partner it's all the same... the cheater has little respect.
I dont begrudge anyone who feels it should be the only way a marriage or relationship should work. Heck, up until recently I was in the same thought process. I'm just learning its not so black and white. I think that's why this has personally helped me so much find out who I am and could be.
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What's Your Opinion? Sign Up Now!Basically, I've never been attracted to guys in the slightest. A few months ago I started talking to a guy who for some reason just clicked for me and suddenly I was interested. I talked to my wife and she told me to go explore it with the agreement no feelings would develop between him and I. That's where it basically stands right now.
I think in your case, the guilt is more about the fact that you have clicked.
Anxiety over the blurred lines of where feelings develop? Whether you can guarantee that no feelings will develop if you continue.
For the people I know who share, it's very very physical stuff, so it's pretty easy to maintain it that way.
We clicked before any of this started. The guilt really was borne from just having this idealized image of what marriage should be and I sort of had that image shattered. I'm trying to balance my beliefs of the sanctity of marriage vs using the opportunity afforded to me to learn more about myself.
I mean that's a fair assessment and one I kind of feel aligns more about how I felt about it. She feels differently about it and I think morally I am trying to square the two up.
On one hand, I agree, it does feel wrong regardless of permission.
On the other, it has actually improved our relationship in some ways and if anything we are opening ourselves up to new experiences and getting closer in that regard.
I think if you are with someone for so long (in our case together for almost 19 years total now) you get set in a routine and sometimes need something to break you out of it.
That's what I am finding as well. Unfortunately there are those who don't quite understand how that works.
oh god yeah i know what you mean... i usually get the simp cuck responce when i mention it but it had nothing to do with that
I've asked her to join us and she isn't opposed, she is just awkward and needs time to adjust to having someone hear her doing it outside of me.
I tell her everything and share any details or messages she asks for. There is nothing being hidden unless she specifically asks not to be told something.
I have permission, but im not entirely sure I want it nor am I sure I dont want it either.
Ok, I was being lazy. I read some of the other answers and I have a better idea of what's going on.
Well, knowing something about women... are you sure it's not a test? To see if your loyalty to her is greater than curiosity for a guy? Making you a double traitor to her for one and women in general for two?
Sounds like something my ex would have done.
If ur partner is being sincere... and the guy is being respectful then just explore your curiosity. There's nothing physical so not too much harm can be done that way. Just find answers to questions you might have about men. This is only one guy, he doesn't speak for all men. He might be worse, he might be a whole lot better than many men out there. Is he truly kind and patient and understanding?
Be careful and have fun and good luck.
I truly hope you find what you need.
It's not a test I am aware of anyway. I have always been very open and honest and there is no doubt where my loyalty is.
As for the guy, he has been amazing through all this. We both stated our boundaries and he has never crossed mine. He respects my marriage and everything we do is kept within the bounds of our conversation and doesn't extend into my life offline.
Thank you though. As it happens more and more im feeling more comfortable with it and I check with her every few days to see if she is still good with the arrangements.
That's a nice place to be. I'm happy for you. Her love is showing in that she's giving you freedom out of love. And you're being very considerate... so is he it seems like.
Congratulations all around.
Both my wife and friends with benefits know about each other and have even talked to one another. She is considering joining us at some point
Been with her for almost 19 years.
My friends with benefits and I have been doing things for a few weeks.
That makes sense. Kind of like if a teacher says it is an open book test then its not cheating if you use it.
Thanks for your response 😊
Pretty much. Just like a teacher, she tells me what she is okay with, what the rules are, and I just go by that.
No problem
Well, couple of thoughts on this.
I'm not married to a man, I am married to another woman.
I also am a grown adult and even if I were married to a guy they wouldn't "allow" me to do anything. I'm not property to my spouse. I talked to her and we had a discussion about the situation and she gave me her thoughts about it. Ultimately the decision was still my own.
@KrakenAttackin or just a full on cuck. Such men ultimately don't have the respect of their wives because, frankly, they don't merit it.
Still would like to point out as I did before, not married to a man.
She absolutely has all my respect though. I just know she trusts me just as much as I trust her.
She is ok with it and she was the one who suggested it. I'm the one struggling to be ok with even though I'm the one doing it.
I think talk about it more often with her... Things you've been doing.. Things you've been enjoying
That will build up a comfort within you that she's being a part
You can also explore if she would be game to join in
That's a fair assessment I suppose. I am guessing that's why I didn't want to do it in the first place, but with her convincing me that it was fine I finally went through with it.
And you felt guilty about it because deep down inside you knew that this was not right. If some one gave you permission to hurt them and you agree to it, are you still hurting them? Yes. I mean I get it, you where getting pressured and you thought with permission it would be acceptable but in the end that was not the case. A value isn't a value unless you maintain it regardless of circumstances and I think that is what your finding out.
Up side is you feel guilty about it which means your now thinking about it and analyzing the situation. You have to follow what you believe is right and clearly you don't think this is right (or you wouldn't be feeling guilt for it). So I would recommend confronting your partner and telling them you can't do this anymore that it doesn't fit your values and you don't enjoy it.
I dont think its right or wrong as a whole just whether it is right or wrong for me and her. She isn't hurt in the slightest.
I felt guilty before doing it so I have been analyzing the entire time. It's that I thought marriage was much more concrete in it's practice and I am finding is way more fluid than I had expected. I also never said I didn't enjoy it, just that I felt guilt about it. He is filling a need she can't and I'm interested in seeing how that can work into our marriage.
Well, it will work, more then likely, poorly (statistically speaking). As I stated it is cheating, you have made a vow and you have broken it showing that you where not willing to make a sacrifice and neither was she apparently (sacrifice is necessary in relationships). I didn't mean to suggest you didn't enjoy it, I'm sure you did physically, I meant that if you felt guilty you probably don't enjoy it mentally after the fact.
As for working it into the relationship, these relationships fail more often then not. Either you revert back to the primary relationship and cut the third wheel or you become more attached to the other one and the main relationship crumbles (as your brain is wired to build bonds through sex so every time you have sex with this other person your minds changing its neural pathways to increase your attachment to them and if your having sex with them more then your original partner then your letting those connections to them fall apart as you build up the other ones.). But obviously its your choice.
I think I should clarify this a bit more for you.
He and I only do things over voice chat/phone. I have never seen what he looks like and I never want to. I want to keep that distance so that no emotional bonds form from it. I have been married for just about 16 years with no signs of stopping and, if anything, this has helped me understand myself more and knowing what to ask for with her. It has honestly given me more confidence to stand up for myself more because I am stepping outside of my comfort zone and trying something different.
Okay, then why would you feel guilty? It can't make you feel more confident, not affect your marriage, not affect your relationship in anyway shape or form, and not affect you in any negative way but also make you feel guilty, at least not feel guilty for any rational reason. So why would you feel guilty then? Why do you feel guilty if you are here arguing that its not wrong, that its a good thing and its a healthy thing? Is that what you believe or is it a rationalization in order to justify the behavior (honest question)? Seems odd to me, i've never done the right thing and felt guilty over it but that is precisely your argument so why would that be the case?
I feel guilty because I had gone my whole life believing that it had to be one way. I struggled when I was little with the idea I had to marry a boy when I got older but eventually realized I didn't. Now I am finding that this isn't what I thought it had to be either. It's guilt for now, but won't always be that way
Sure, but does that mean its a good thing? I imagine people who steal feel guilt at first but it goes away eventually. Does that mean that its okay to deviate and steal from people? Again I am not saying this because I personally care, I have no investment in this, but because to me, it sound like your trying to rationalize the behavior to justify it to yourself more then anything.
I mean, this is what I've seen many people do with casual sex for instance, they rationalized it because it felt good, because monogamy was old fashioned, because it was just social norms and fear of ridicule that was keeping people from sleeping around. The thing is, all of those people who said these things and behaved that way where utterly miserable because the casual sex was entertaining but not meaningful.
In addition, if you have already decided its okay, why bother asking the question? You already have your answer so why did you go to the trouble of asking? To me, and again this is just an opinion and not meant to be seen as aggressive or demanding (its your life you live it however you want no one has the right to stop you), it seems like your trying to justify the action to yourself because deep down you don't feel right about it on a fundamental level (after all, if doing this with this guy not really cheating, then their is no such thing as cheating, and if their is no such thing as cheating is their really such a thing as monogamy and if their is no cheating and no monogamy then their really isn't any commitment so what exactly is you relationship with your spouse? It loses its meaning (again, in my opinion)).
It wasn't asked to vindicate what I have done, it was to see what others thought about in general.
In the end its what works for the three of us. Yes, I still feel guilt but im not going to feel more or less because some random person on the internet gives an opinion.
I'm not trying to make you feel guilty, I'm trying to see if your really analyzing the situation or if your taking the easy way out and just rationalizing things in the hopes that you can have your cake and eat it too. Trying to have it all usually ends poorly which is why society tends to frown on it (its disruptive to a society). That was my point. I mean sure maybe your the one person in the world that will not be affected by this who's relationships and marriage are going to be untouched by this, its entirely possible but not very likely. These rules for society didn't appear out of no where, they didn't get reinforced for tens of thousands of years because some one just wanted to make you miserable and control your life, they have existed because they serve a purpose. Its very important that you understand fully why a system exists before you start modifying it and its just as important to understand yourself and why you desire to modify the system before you do so because if you don't, disaster is generally inevitable. What we want and what we need are rarely in alignment.
Honestly polygamy has been around just as long as marriage and continues to persist. Both have their benefits and their destructive tendencies. I think there was an opinion on this thread that really made sense about it can't be cheating if the other person is aware and given their blessing. That's consent.
Trust me, I fully understand in the sanctity of marriage and for most of my life I have been a firm believer in it. Yes, my thoughts are modifying slightly and if I felt it was having any sort of negative impact I'd instantly stop it. My love for her is unbreakable. I talk to her every few days about where we stand, how she feels, if she is still OK, and what seems to be working so that we implement it within our own relationship.
I also understand that there are going to be detractors who don't understand or look down on us for this decision, but it's nothing we haven't dealt with before with us being a married couple to begin with.
Not really. The filthy rich got to have polygamy, well multiple partners not really multiple wives, but it was rare and even then it wasn't a good system with many issues (wars of succession, wars for inheritance, killing of spouses and concubines etc.).
As for it being cheating, well you gave an oath, if you break the oath you have cheated, that is irrelevant to whether or not some one says its okay. If I say I'm going to do something and I don't do it, I lied it doesn't matter if some one says they don't mind or not it was still a lie. One could argue severity of it, I would say its a lot better to cheat with their knowledge and permission then it is to do so without it, but its still a breaking of that oath no matter what way you look at it.
As for your love being unbreakable, well, that is debatable. Love is work, love is sacrifice and if you stop working and stop sacrificing that love will break. It must be maintained like anything else or it will slowly decay and the more time away from them and more time with others, the more you build something with them and the less you maintain with your spouse. Just the nature of things, we don't get to have everything we want and when you try, you more often then not lose both.
As for detractors, sure some will detract because they don't agree and want you to do what they do, they want you to be "normal" for lack of a better term, but others will detract because their is a legitimate reason to be concerned. You need to understand that, it goes both ways, some times people argue against what your doing because they have a different (and some times better) perspective then you and they see the pitfalls coming that you don't because you want it enough that you have placed blinders on (if you don't see it, it won't be a problem, except that doesn't last).
Again its your choice, just trying to give you the other perspective and to get you to think about it (people feel more then they think and it leads to a lot of problems).
Trust me I fully get where you are coming from and I feel like the assumptions that our love is going to be tested is just incorrect. There are a lot of reasons it could whither and yet we have withstood all of them. Nobody stopped working, this is another step on us working on it. You may not understand it but thats exactly what it is. Im trying to learn more about myself. She is encouraging me to do that. That is love. That is sacrifice.
Severe delusion basically. Think of a small dog that desperately wants to asset its dominance and you get modern males
I've debated that quite often with myself honestly. Everyone else in the arrangement seems fine with it except me. I enjoy what we do in the moment but then I feel guilty later. I feel like that will fade with time, but its just a lot of breaking my mindset of what I was expecting marriage to be.
Well, I disagree with your statement, but I value your opinion.
It's working out great so far actually even with my own internalized guilt.
Thank you for your response though. 😊
That’s not a true marriage and that’s not a true boyfriend girlfriend relationship is just pure garbage across-the-board that’s not an honorable love. Have we discussed this before?
Iunno, did you already post on my thread once?
The marriage is true enough and her and I will have been together for 19 years in total at the end of this year.
I'm not dating the guy though. There are no emotional attachments at all other than him just being a friend that I also happen to do things with over voice chat/phone.
I'm lesbian with a curiosity to find out if I have any attraction to guys. So far his voice works but I'd still want nothing to do with a guy physically.
This is the first person I have ever done anything like this with and he will be my last. The only reason he even gets a pass right now is because he is a trusted friend who knows this is not going further and will respect that boundary.
Thats perfectly fine : )
That probably would have even been a better first comment because then it wouldn't sound so aggressive.
I am agnostic myself and just try to live by the philosophy "don't be a d*ck".
You have severe issues I was never being a dick with you in the first place and I knew that you would end up stressing me out. People like you can't keep it civilized you have to throw out disrespectful words because you don't have the class to have a civilized conversation without accusing somebody of being a dick
I'll gladly debate with anyone and keep it civil. We don't have to see eye to eye. That is ok. That's what makes this world great. Different experiences and different thought processes.
You started off by calling my relationships garbage and trashy. I've stayed nice every step of the way. I am trying to live my philosophy and just not be rude even when facing an opening Salvo such as that.
I only read your headlines I was talking about the world in general not attacking you for fun
Ok. Still, even if that's the case, it's still ok to disagree and be upset at how you perceive the world without going that far, right?
I fully support your faith, I honestly truly do. I just support others as well because I dont think any of us can really know which is right. Maybe its one, maybe its all. Thats part of why I am agnostic.
What I do know is generally the theme across most of them is just to be kind to one another for the most part. I think I like that part the best. If there is an afterlife and we are all going somewhere then I am pretty sure they will make the ultimate judgment so no reason for anyone to do it here. 😊
I like to witness about the Lord Jesus Christ and it's what I'm supposed to do and I do do that
By all means, feel free. Just spread that message of peace with kindness. Build a bridge to those you see as sinners and not cast stones from across the river.
It's the harder thing to do but so much more worth it when you reach someone.
In any case, have a blessed day and thank you for your responses.
Private message me and we will talk later tonight right now I have to go out and run some errands
I have always been open with her on everything. She knows I'm not trying to do anything in person and her opinion is that she sees it more like watching porn than cheating unless emotions become involved.
I can't really tell her no if she asked now and I'm not sure I'd want to. It does make me feel guilty, but I get needing to explore your own sexuality.
She is and I dont really hook up with anyone. The person I am talking to online is male though. There is no in person interactions with him.
And that's perfectly fine!
It wasn't one I saw myself in either, but here we are lol
Thank you for your response 😊
Oh, wife. Hm. In this case it would be called a cuckquean but OK, I understand that. She just gave you the permission for open relationships/marriage.
She sees it more like watching p*rn or having an audio novel read to you. He and I do nothing offline.
She at some point may even join us. Its just us trying something new really.
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