Greatest German military songs composed so far

[ADFSDF1996]

Germany has arguably composed the greatest military songs out every country. Many German military songs are so great that they have been adopted by foreign countries like Japan, Chile the UK and Brazil. Below are my personal favorite German military songs which I like to listen to.

Note: Now let’s clarify some things first, just because these songs are of German origin, doesn’t mean they are “Nazi”. In fact, none of the songs on this list are Nazi songs. So before you read this informative piece on German military music, please put your fallacious reasoning aside.

1.)Hohenfriedberger marsch composed in 1795 by Frederic the great: One of the most popular German military marches was composed in 1795, supposedly by Frederic the Great. It commemorates the Prussian victory over the Austrians in Hohenfriedberg.

Equestrian statue of Frederick the great

2.) Yorkscher march, composed 1808 by Ludwig Van Beethoven: The marsh was composed in the early 1800s by Germany’s most popular composer Ludwig Van Beethoven. It has served as a standard military marsch for the German military ever since. Even the “national volks armee” of the culturally repressed East Germany used it as their main march. The march is currently used by the German Bundeswehr.

Ludwig Van Beethoven composer of Yorkscher marsch

3.) Die Wacht am Rhein(the watch on the Rhein), composed by Karl Willhelm 1851: A song composed to commemorate the Franco-Prussian war of 1870. The song talks about a soldier standing on guard at the Rhein river for French invaders. The song also has English and Russian versions and was also used during WWI. It’s not used by the German army anymore but is still considered a part of German history. Yale University currently uses the melody of this song for their own song called “Bright college years.”

The Rhine River

4.) Königgrätzer marsch, composed 1866 by Johann gottfried Piefke:
When people you hear the words “German military march” this is perhaps the first song that comes to your mind. This march commemorates the battle of konnigratz and also includes the hohenfriedberger march. The song became popular when it was used in Indiana Jones and the last crusade and in call of duty world at war. The song is often incorrectly called a Nazi march by ignoramuses but in reality it’s not a Nazi march but rather a Prussian march which is still used by the German Bundeswehr and Chilean military.

Johan Gottfried Piefke

5.) Preussens Gloria, composed 1871 by Johan Gottfried Pfiefke: Another Prussian march that is has been used by various German militaries and is currently used by the Bundeswehr.

The song is used by the Chilean army

6.) Alte Kameraden(old comrades) composer in 1899 by Carl Teike: A very popular German song that has been adopted by the British military. Many people assume it’s a “British march” but in reality it’s German. It’s still played by various military bands and musical groups around the world today.

Carl Teike

7.)Argonnerwaldlied composed during WWI by Hermann Albert Gordon:

The song talks about the extensive fighting that took place in the Argonne forest during WWI. It also expresses German Patriotism. The melody of the song would also be used by both the Nazis and the Sparticist communists for their own songs. But nonetheless the song predates both Ideologies and shouldn’t be stigmatized for it. The original Argonnerwaldlied is still sung by various German music groups.

Lyrics to Argonnerwald lied

7.)BadenWeiler marsch composed 1914 by Georg Furst: A very popular military march that is often used by many movies to emphasize German military might due to it’s authoritative tone. The march is still used today by the German bundeswehr.

German military music service beret badge

8.) Panzerlied composed 1933 by Kurt Wiehle: A very popular German military march used by German tank units during WWII. Unfortunately the highly despised Ursula Von der Layen prohibited the bundeswehr from using melody in 2017 do you it’s association with the third reich. The song isn’t even political but Ursula still used the guilty by association fallacy. Fortunately the melody of the song is still used by the French, Brazilian and Chilean militaries.

German leopard II tank

Erika, composed circa 1930s by Herms Niel: The most popular German military march used by the Wehrmacht. Despite it’s very militant rhythm the lyrics of the song itself have nothing to with politics or the military. The song talks about a heath named Erika and woman named Erika as well. It also talks about nature. The song is still sung by some singers and played by some musical groups. And it’s still used by the Chilean military.

Common Heather(Erika)

Lisa, Lisa Date composed unknown(possibly 1930s), composer unknown: ”Lisa, Lisa” is a German military song that talks about a barmaid named Lisa. It also talks about soldiers and their routines.

🎶Lisa, Lisa pour the reservist more beer.🎶

Funkerlied(Radio operator’s song), date composed unknown(possibly 1930s), composer unknown: A very popular German military song about German radio operators sending love messages to their girlfriends. It has a very happy tone to it and is currently occasionally played by some German musicians.

WWII German army radio operators

Westerwaldlied composed between 1932-1935 by Willi Müller and Joseph Neuhauser: A popular German military march about a mountain range called the “Westerwald”. The song is not political and only talks about soldiers marching through the Westerwald. The melody is currently used by the armies of both Chile and South Korea.

Somewhere in the westerwald

Lili Marleen composed 1938 by Norbert Schultze: The most popular song on this list, the lyrics are actually a poem composed by a German soldier during WWI but the melody itself was composed in 1938 by Norbert Schultze. The song is an anti War love song about a soldier reluctantly saying goodbye to his lover Lili Marleen before he goes to war. High ranking nazis actually tried to ban the song because of it’s anti war message but failed to ban it since the song’s popularity rapidly grew. The song was very popular amongst both allied and axis soldiers. And ever since publication, it has gradually been translated into over 80 languages including Japanese, Finnish, Yiddish, Indonesian, Spanish, French, Italian, English, Russian etc. The song is currently played by various military bands around the world such as the Bundeswehr, the British military, the Canadian military, the US military, the Chilean military, etc. The song is also currently sung by various singers and musical groups such as the Johann Strauss orchestra, orquestra romanticos Cuba etc. There are several monuments dedicated to this song, several restaurants named after it and several movies named after it. There is even a sequel to the song called the “wedding of Lili Marleen”. This song is perhaps the most beloved song around the world. The first time I heard Lili Marleen, I was absolutely amazed by how beautiful the song is.

🎶Both of our shadows melded into one under the lamppost...🎶

Es war ein Edelweiss composed in 1941 by Herms Niel: A popular song amongst the German Gibergsjäger(mountain troops). The song talks about the alps and specifically about a flower native to the alps called the “edelweiss”. The song is currently sung by various German musical groups.

🎶It was an edelweiss, a small edelweiss🎶

I can only add 15 videos so I’ll probably write a part two with more iconic apolitical German military songs.

[monkeynutts]

Interesting take, it's definitely something that has to have cultural significance to be significant, I always tear up when I see a video of Anzacs marching and singing waltzing Matilda. I didn't get a chance to listen to them all, I agree with you about how inane it is to ban anything just because Nazi's also appropriated it also, like why they change the name of an object in space from Ultima Thule, to something I can't even remember.

[MountAverage]

It's always funny how you apparently think just because you know how to articulate yourself that you're intelligent, when in reality anyone who actually pays attention to what it is you're just yet another paranoid far right extremist science denier who believes in conspiracy theories, lol.
You create this long myTake consisting of 90% LITERAL Nazi memerabilia and mean to tell us it has nothing to do with you being a Nazi sympathiszer? Man, you're such a pathetic coward, haha!
And like all you right-wing extremists you're a hypocrite through and through. You constantly speak of "totalitarianism" and how the evil Left wants to censor everything, boohoo, yet when your temper tantrum crybaby Führer Trump wants to shut down Social Media platforms the second they dare at least trying to fact check him, you'll find some excuse or conspiracy theory to say THAT's okay.

Yeah, you're not to be taken seriously. The only people on this site who take you seriously are the other right-wing Fascists here, and the only ones who don't see you for what you really are, are the clueless teenage girls. And lucky for you, both these groups are plenty on here.

Now fuck off please, Nazi pig.

Does it seem to you that the fascists on this site are getting more open about it? ↗

[MountAverage]

That comment wasn't meant for you, you can ignore it.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

@MountAverage Who was it for?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Oh, never mind.

[goaded]

@MountAverage Hi! Did you block this asshole? He's claiming you did.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

@MountAverage

Expose fascistic garbage wherever it pops up.

[ADFSDF1996]

@Ad_Quid_Orator

Using commie propaganda on a 7 month post? Aside from it being a reductio ad Hitlerum it seems that you are saying that you are a commie.

Say, have you been stalking my profile?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Yeah, it's "commie propaganda" from the "great patriotic war" because you know, commies are all about patriotism XD. Really, on this post you're using songs associated with Nazis and saying it has no connection with the Nazi ideology but when I use a picture from the USSRs' great patriotic war it's "commie propaganda" even though the war waged by the Germans was deemed as a fight for Lebensraum (a core tenet of Nazi ideology) while in the USSR it was a fight to defend the motherland (news flash: the idea that you should defend your country against an invader hell bent on wiping out 60% of your population and enslave the remaining 40% is hardly exclusive to communism).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu-MDEXwV4s

No I'm not 'stalking your profile' but your post about the Revenge of Prussia popped up on my feed and I saw you trying to ascribe the Soviets' desire to erase the German identity on their "communist ideology" (because I'm sure it's all about that and nothing to do with the Germany launching THE most devastating invasion in human history against the USSR; and no, I'm not trying to justify the actions committed by the USSR against the Germans, just that the notion that it's because they were 'commies' is a blatant distortion of history).

[ADFSDF1996]

@Ad_Quid_Orator

You see that’s where you are wrong. Most of these songs have no connection to the Nazi regime, yet your left wing bias skews your perspective. I guess you really don’t know what guilt by association is do you? Just cause a song or product originated during the third reich doesn’t mean it’s “Nazi”. It’s common sense. Besides most of these songs actually predate the third reich.

And nice job with the irrelevant rant. I don’t recall trying to defend the the third reich. You blatantly read my other post and decided to misinterpret what I said in order to add more fish gallop to your reply. The purpose of that post was to show how the commies have a tendency to destroy tradition/culture, not to defend the third reich.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

I do know what the guilt by association fallacy is but that's what your reply wax entirely based on.

"Just cause a song or product originated during the third reich doesn’t mean it’s “Nazi”. It’s common sense."

And just cause a song or product originated during the USSR doesn’t mean it’s “Communist”. It’s common sense.

I didn't say that the posting songs used by the third Reich made you a Nazi sympathizer by default; I said there was a better case to made for someone using songs used by the Nazis being a Nazi sympathizer than someone using soviet propaganda from WW2 being a communist sympathizer (and that's not stemming from any kind of contrived left wing bias [way to project on your part] but from the fact that the Nazi war effort was based on fascist/racist ideology while the primary motivation behind the Soviet war effort wasn't their communist ideology but a desire to fight off an invader).

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

But will you at least admit to this: of you were in the Weimar Republic you'd be more worried about Antifa than the Nazis:

And if people complained about the expansion of the concentration camps in the Early years of the Nazi regime, you'd say "well people weren't complaining about the Jews in concentration camps under the Weimar Republic".

Because you only think it's bad when a leftist government uses them:

[ADFSDF1996]

@Ad_Quid_Orator

“ And just cause a song or product originated during the USSR doesn’t mean it’s “Communist”. It’s common sense.”
Name one product, innovation or song that is used/listened to worldwide that originated in the Soviet Union.

Fanta originated in Germany
Adidas originated in Germany
Hugo Boss originated in Germany

“Fighting off an invader” Yet you condemned the Finns for fighting off the Soviets in the winter war. What do you think propaganda is? If the Soviets were strictly about defense they wouldn’t have divided Europe in two post WWII.

“ But will you at least admit to this: of you were in the Weimar Republic you'd be more worried about Antifa than the Nazis:”

There you go again with the generalization antics. If you were a Soviet citizen you’d be an NKVD officer arresting political dissidents. See how generalizations sound?

That’s the difference between you and me. You show blatant hypocrisy by calling out the Nazis for being evil while defending the communists. On the contrary, I view both Nazis and commies as being equally evil.

And again, it was a socialist who gave the green light for the Japanese American internment, something the American socialist party has yet to apologize for.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

en.wikipedia.org/.../Timeline_of_Russian_innovation

"Yet you condemned the Finns for fighting off the Soviets in the winter war." you're making shit up now (and taking the guilt by association fallacy to new levels of stupidity).

"There you go again with the generalization antics. If you were a Soviet citizen you’d be an NKVD officer arresting political dissidents. See how generalizations sound?" Except you whine about Antifa while the American right has grown more authoritarian so don't pretend it's a generalization.
www.cnn.com/.../index.html

Yeah, they are equally bad even though 15 million Soviet Civilians were killed by the Nazis while 150,000 German Civilians were killed by the Soviets but since you have no Partisan Bias you see them as "equally bad"; what a sophist neo-fascist dog whistle (and saying communism is bad isn't neo fascist propaganda but claiming that the Red Army was as bad as the Wehrmacht is along with claims such as Holocaust denial and claiming that the Nazis were left wing or politically ambivalent). You're praising songs used by the Nazis but if someone uses a WW2 Soviet era poster they're automatically a "communist sympathizer" and you're saying I'm blinded by Partisan bias LMAO.

FDR was a member of the Democratic Party, not a socialist party and the majority of Democrats voted in favor of giving the Japanese reparations (while most Republicans opposed it).

[ADFSDF1996]

@Ad_Quid_Orator

“you're making shit up now (and taking the guilt by association fallacy to new levels of stupidity).” Backpedaling much? When I listed all the groups that resisted communist tyranny, you called them authoritarian.

“ Except you whine about Antifa while the American right has grown more authoritarian so don't pretend it's a generalization.”
The left is more covertly authoritarian. And are you seriously using CNN as a “source”? What a joke.

“ Yeah, they are equally bad even though 15 million Soviet Civilians were killed by the Nazis while 150,000 German Civilians were killed by the Soviets but since you have no Partisan Bias you see them as "equally bad"; what a sophist neo-fascist dog whistle (and saying communism is bad isn't neo fascist propaganda but claiming that the Red Army was as bad as the Wehrmacht is along with claims such as Holocaust denial and claiming that the Nazis were left wing or politically ambivalent). ”
You leftists sure love to use statistics unless the statistics disprove your narrative. You literally ignored the fact that it wasn’t just German citizens who suffered the wrath of the Soviets but also various other European nationalities like the Poles and the Hungarians among others including its own citizens. Don’t even get me started on Mao’s or Pol pot’s regimes.

“ You're praising songs used by the Nazis but if someone uses a WW2 Soviet era poster they're automatically a "communist sympathizer" and you're saying I'm blinded by Partisan bias LMAO.”

Once again your logic fails and your are oblivious to your own nonsense. None of these songs mention politics, while that poster is political in nature. Big difference.

“ FDR was a member of the Democratic Party, not a socialist party and the majority of Democrats voted in favor of giving the Japanese reparations (while most Republicans opposed it).”

[ADFSDF1996]

Gee I wonder why the Dems voted in favor of reparations? Must have been the fact that the tides had turned against them and they realized that voting against them would bite them in the ass since the Japanese American community had gained a lot of momentum by the 1980s. Yeah it’s wasn’t sincere on their part and for that they still need to apologize. And don’t forget it was a Republican President who actually passed it, not a Democratic President.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

The reparations included an official apology and most republicans opposed it; Reagan capitulated to political pressure., not the Democrats.

Way to fail at moving the goal post.

[ADFSDF1996]

@Ad_Quid_Orator

You clearly know nothing about Reagan do you? And the apology was from the country as a whole but not specifically from the Democratic Party.

I’m surprised you didn’t reply to my other replies. Either you have run out of stuff to say or you didn’t read it.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

-I said you included authoritarian movements that fought communism while complaining about supporting one authoritarian movement against another, not that every group on that list was authoritarian.

-Actually I used the V-Dem Institute at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden as a source; CNN was just the reporting agent but you're nothing but a partisan hack hence you have a knee jerk reaction that "because it's a liberal source, it's invalid".

-The claim was that the Nazis were worse than the Soviets, not that the Soviets were innocent. I mean this is the kind of historical revisionism that more blatantly open neo-fascist types use when they try to use the carpet bombing of German cities by the US and UK to the Holocaust FFS. And if you're going to bring up Pol Pot and Mao to make you're case and if you are not a partisan hack (although you are) you'd also have to admit that capitalism is worse than Nazism because of what the British did in India, the French in Algeria, the US in Vietnam or the Belgians in the Congo. The left loves using statistics, the right loves abusing them.

-The "Political Nature" of the poster was about defending the USSR from the Nazi invaders. Again, it was the Nazi war effort that was ideologically driven; not the Soviet one.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

'You clearly know nothing about Reagan do you? And the apology was from the country as a whole but not specifically from the Democratic Party."

No shit; support for the order wasn't exclusive to the Democratic party BUT the Democratic party was part of the "country as a whole". And FDR didn't get directions to enact order 1066 from the Director of the Democratic party. Again your partisan hackery is showing again where you assign blame when it's convenient for you.

[ADFSDF1996]

@Ad_Quid_Orator

1.) Lesser evil vs greater evil

2.) argument from authority.

3.) They were on par with each other, the only thing that slightly helped the Soviet’s reputation was that they were on the winning team and went through the “destalinization” process post WWII. But they were still very authoritative. And you are talking about empires and countries that have no relationship to Germany and were even at odds with Germany. While communism is communism regardless of the country.

4.) Except the politics didn’t stop there, even after WWII, many Eastern bloc countries used propaganda to depict NATO as “fascists”. So much for only “fighting off an invader”. Still that doesn’t change the fact that the songs are strictly apolitical, while that poster is political.

5.) Where were the Democrat protests against the Japanese American internment? Really the only people who defended the Japanese-American community were various religious organizations like the quakers.

[Hanzyxw]

That is an awesome post I am a musician are you also one?

[ADFSDF1996]

I’m not a musician but I can play certain songs on piano by ear.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

1) Except you said that you can't support one authoritarian regime over another.

2) Versus you using anecdotes about socjus / social liberalism / post modernism / cultural Marxism / Kulturbolschewismus to push the "radicalized left" mythos? Give me a break. 3) Yeah, it's because they were on the winning side and it had nothing to do with the Soviets committing only a fraction of the war crimes Nazi Germany did. Yeah, you sound just like a revisionist. 4) The Wehrmachts' fight was rooted in Nazi ideology, the Red Armys' fight was rooted in the defense of their homeland. You can't have your cake and eat it too; you can't try to disavow connections between the Wehrmacht and Nazi ideology but then say that material associated with the Soviet Army is automatically communist. 5) Who said the Democrats were protesting Japanese internment during WW2? You're straw manning again.

[ADFSDF1996]

1.) Says the guy who posted a Soviet propaganda poster and refuses to acknowledge the fact that the Soviets did many things that were similar to what the Nazis did.

2.) Reductio as Hitlerum, guilt by association all to push the “authoritarian right” generalization, talk about hypocrisy. Difference is that I at least acknowledge that some far right wing groups are too extreme, while you evade acknowledging the extremism on the left.

3.) Point where I promoted the “clean Wehrmacht” myth. Oh that’s right, I didn’t. Me defending German tradition and the German ethnicity has nothing to do with Nazism. But then again you leftists believe the delusion that anything German is synonymous with Nazism, hence you snowflaking over the fact that I am fond of traditional German military music that predates the third reich and or is apolitical.

4.) That’s where you are wrong. The Soviets where already trying to expand westward prior to the rise of the Nazis. Look at the first failed Soviet invasion of Poland, look at the winter war and look at the second Soviet invasion of Poland in 1939. Typical sovieboo revisionism. Nazis and commies are two sides of the same coin.

5.) No, I was asking why weren’t they protesting the Japanese-American internment if they supposedly were against it?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

1) Yeah because unlike you I don't flip flop about whether or not you can support an authoritarian regime over based on whether the regime is right or left wing because unlike you I'm not a partisan hack. And I said that the Nazis committed far more grievous crimes than the USSR, that's not denying that the USSR didn't commit war crimes (there's one straw man).

2) I said that the American right has been growing more authoritarian than the left, not that there isn't extremism on the left (straw man 2; and you're just projecting your hypocrisy on the left).

3. I didn't say that you promoted the "clean Wehrmacht myth", I said that the Wehrmacht was fighting for the Nazi ideology (the war was waged for Lebensraum) while the Red Army was fighting to defend their country against an invasion.

4. Wow, you're calling me a "Sovieboo" while pushing the Wehraboo "Barbarossa was a preemptive attack" talking point? LMAO talk about projection. Yeah, the USSR attacked other countries in the interwar years but they were hardly alone in that regard:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars
And while invading smaller countries is deplorable, that doesn't mean that if you get invaded yourself your fight against the invader is motivated by whatever ideology (capitalism or communism) that drove you to invade the other countries. Way to show your true colors; now fly under them. Also, the idea of "vanguard communism" had waned from the Soviet Zeitgeist in the interwar years:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co5ut5cfquk&t=58s
@6:30
You like to distort facts to fit your warped world view don't you.

5. Most people supported Japanese internment during WW2 regardless of their political affiliation.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

If you're going to argue that the USSRs' fight against Nazi Germany was ideologically driven versus defensive, then you'd have to argue that the "Westward Expansion" that you mentioned provoked the Nazis into attacking them. But given that the invasions you mentioned were included in the secret clause of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, this notion is complete BS. You've shown your true colors, now fly under them.

How do you know if someone who glorifies war songs used in Nazi Germany is just enjoying the content and not secretly sympathetic to the Nazi regime, see if he's consistent or if he associates any material used by the Red Army with communism. That's an absolute dead giveaway.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Oh hey, the US invaded Iraq for corporate profits so if some country invades the US and slaughters millions of civilians in the process, the US fighting for corporate interests in the fight against the invader.

See how stupid your argument is? You've shown your true colors; now fly under them.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

I mean saying that because a country holds X political view and fought wars of aggression, when someone invades them with intent to massacre and enslave them, their war against the invader is politically motivated is in levels of partisan hackery that are too dumb to even parody.

[ADFSDF1996]

1.) Again quite ironic for someone who claims to support human rights, all while using soviet apologism

2.) It’s not a strawman since you blatantly ignore the extremism and covert authoritarianism of the left.

3.) Doesn’t explain why they tried to expand westward pre WWII.

4.) Another strawman when did I say the operation Barbarossa was a preemptive strike? Again you claim the Soviet army was acting purely on defense yet you fail to understand that they originally wanted to push all the way to the Atlantic.

5.) Most didn’t pay attention to it. It was mostly those who resided on the West coast who supported it.

And I’m not even going to bother addressing your irrelevant gish gallop.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

1) Saying that it wasn't as bad as Nazi Germany is a very low bar for being an apologist X'D

2) You said I denied extremism on the left. Ignoring (ahem "ignoring" that your claim about me ignoring it is whataboutism) isn't the same as "denying" it so yeah, it is a strawman but one that's too wet to burn.

3) No but it does explain why they were fighting the Nazi regime. It's quite laughable how much your partisan bias has skewed your contraboo perspective that you think that because a communist country invaded another nation in previous years (a regard which the USSR or communist movements were hardly exclusive in), that means that when they are invaded by an army that kills millions of their citizens and systematically plundering their country, their fight against the invader is ideologically driven. That's an utterly nonsensical argument.

4) "Initially" as in the immediate aftermath of the Russian Revolution but "vanguard communism" was a fringe belief in the USSR by the outbreak of WW2 so 3 & 4 are non sequiturs.

5) Yeah because they were the most likely to be attacked by a Japanese raid. And before you run your mouth again, I'm not trying to justify it, I'm calling out your subtle little attempt to ascribe support of the internment of Japanese Americans to a leftist ideology.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And if you're going to try to pull a Bailey and Motte, saying that the reason the USSR was to fight against an invader isn't saying that there weren't other ideological underpinnings in the war on the Eastern Front BUT in any conflict there are going to be people who will use it (no matter what the main reason the war being fought is) to push a political agenda but to ascribe anything associated with that side to said agendas is *ahem "guilt by association".

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Also, you seem to not understand how "vanguard communism" works. It didn't involve the Red Army just rolling over the rest of the countries in Europe; it involved worker uprisings in the countries of Europe that would be supported by the Red Army (which didn't happen hence "vanguard communism waned in the USSR in the interwar period). And to clarify, not embracing "vanguard communism" doesn't preclude a communist country from being imperialistic. But yeah, I'm such an apologist for the Soviet Regime because I'm exposing a blatant distortion. It's not like the perceived threat of "vanguard communism" wasn't used a justification for launching a war that claimed millions of lives (*cough "Domino Theory" *cough Vietnam War).

[ADFSDF1996]

Why give the credit to the USSR instead of just the Russian people? Had Stalin not have eased his restrictions on religion, the Swastika would have been flying above the red square. That was the ultimatum the Russian people gave Stalin. “Either let us practice our religion or we let the Nazis do as they please.”

Doesn’t matter how Vanguard communism works, it still involves sowing communist dictatorships. Don’t sugar coat it.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

"Why give the credit to the USSR instead of just the Russian people?"

Seriously? I have to explain this to you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJAIutK6L_c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joHF8F2Ki3M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLl3QYiJDI0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1HExyXStZ4

And do you have a source for that claim about religion (and that can support the conclusion you drew from it)?

Sugar coating ≠ calling it out when a threat is blowing people out of proportion. That's like saying that because someone called out misinformation spread to rally support behind the Iraq war, they were trying to "sugar coat" Saddams' regime (and I remember a lot of that happening by the way). Typical contraboo reactionary attitude -_-

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

BUT when you claim that a fight waged by a dictator against communists as a "struggle against marxist tyranny" that is absolutely sugar coating it. So quit projecting.

[ADFSDF1996]

You don’t seem to understand that it was the Russian people who won the war, not your communist buddies getting all cozy in the Kremlin.

You’re still blatantly defending communist regimes. “Blowing out of proportion” is just another way of saying “it’s not tyranny when we do it”.

And here’s the link about religion. www.google.com/.../

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

1. Of course it wasn't the "commies"; you'd think that would be made clear to you when I told you that the Red Armys' fight was rooted in a desire to defend their country, not communism but apparently your partisan bias has completely warped your perspective.

2. Saying that a threat posed by a regime is authoritarian is overblown isn't denying that it's a tyrannical regime; I may have just come of age when I could understand politics but I can still remember all to clearly when the kind of absolutist rhetoric you're using right now was used to rally support behind a war of aggression. Again, you're the one who praised many fights lead by dictators (not just Francos) as struggles against Marxist tyranny so your statement that " “Blowing out of proportion” is just another way of saying “it’s not tyranny when we do it”" is NOTHING but projection on your part.

3. The information provided can't support the conclusion that relaxing rules on religion is what allowed the USSR to win.

[ADFSDF1996]

1.) Now you are backpedaling

2.) Tyranny is tyranny. You say those communist regimes weren’t as evil, yet you still think Francisco Franco was as evil as Hitler. There’s your political bias right there.

3.) If it was insignificant, then Stalin wouldn’t have bothered with easing the restrictions. But Stalin needed soldiers hence the ease of restrictions. So denying that him using temporary religious freedom to get more soldiers played a major role is nothing more than secular anti theist propaganda.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

1) No, I'm calling you out on how you deliberately misrepresenting what I said.

2) Tyranny is tyranny yet you're all to happy to glorify certain tyrannical regimes as "fighting against tyranny and injustice" as long as they are fighting a leftist tyrannical regime. But you said that because the USSR wanted to expand to the Atlantic so the Red Army's primary motivation for fighting in the war was politically motivated. But by the outbreak of the second world war that wasn't the case and them being tyrannical doesn't change that. You're just shitting Red Herrings. And when did I ever say that Franco was as bad as Hitler?

3) Something not being insignificant doesn't mean that if it didn't happen the result of the war would be different. There's your absolutist perspective again.

[ADFSDF1996]

1.) What? You calling the Soviet Union the lesser evil? Despite it committing numerous atrocities across Europe?

2.) The difference is that I never tried to defend Operation Barbarossa, while you blatantly tried to justify Communist expansion by calling it Vanguard communism. And you went on and on about how evil Franco was on a much older post.

3.) You do realize that the European axis armies outnumbered the Red army early on in the war right? Don’t tell me you still believe that the USSR always had a gargantuan war machine, even the most sovieboo historians confirmed that the red army was outnumbered and lacked sufficient food early on in the war. Hence Stalin easing his restrictions on religion because he knew every bit of manpower was vital to the survival of his regime. Hence the lend lease and Stalin easing his restrictions on religion being to major factors of why the USSR managed to repel the axis armies.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Also, the USSR and Nazi Germany were hardly exclusive in terms of being tyrannical. Most countries in Eastern Europe were authoritarian, and as for Western Europe, well they weren't authoritarian to their citizens but were very tyrannical in their imperial possessions. Yet for *ahem some reason, the USSR is the only one who deserves notoriety as being in the same authoritarian camp as Nazi Germany in your view.

Also, Orwellian tactics like calling out when a threat posed by a regime as being an "apologist for it" is something that authoritarians love to use.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

1) Oh because someone committed atrocities they aren't the lesser Evil to Nazi Germany. Well then I guess because Britain and the US committed atrocities like razing Dresden and Hamburg (and by the way, the allied bombing campaign killed more people than the Red Army) they weren't the "lesser of two evils".

The rhetoric you spit belongs in the same intellectual trash-heep as the kind of vitriol this guy spits:


2. The reason I brought up misconceptions about vanguard communism is because you were claiming that it was behind the Red Army's fight against Nazi Germany (and implicitly pushing the narrative that Barbarossa was a preemptive strike). You opened that can of worms; not me.

3. Yeah they were outnumbered and outgunned when the tide of war turned, but there are other explanations for how they turned the tide like I don't know, that they outmaneuvered them. But because you fell for Nazi propaganda that the Red Army was just a bunch of dumb untermench brutes that thought never even crossed your mind.

[ADFSDF1996]

Again, I know many of those Weatern European countries were authoritarian to their colonies. I never said they weren’t. Especially the British empire. The difference is that you are adamant about defending communist regimes. While I’m not defending countries like the British empire which was the most authoritarian of the Western powers. Talk about a strawman.

Yet another strawman and also Soviet propaganda. When did I call the Russians “untermenschen” oh that’s right I didn’t. And it’s obvious you don’t really understand how wars are fought. “Because they outmaneuvered them” only happened in the middle to later stages of the war (1943 onwards) by the time the European axis powers had nearly depleted their manpower and resources fighting on two fronts. You also can’t march an army to your enemy’s capital if you don’t have the manpower or resources like food. The former being provided by Stalin’s easing on religious restrictions and the latter being provided by the lend lease.

On a side note, that link you provided about “Russian inventions” are Russian inventions not communist inventions. I can easily find an article that lists German inventions but not “Nazi inventions” as well.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Arguing that they weren't as bad as the Nazis is a very low bar for what counts as "defending them". Your claim is literally as stupid as saying that I'm defending the crimes of the British Empire if I argue that they weren't as bad as the Nazis in WW2. You just have the knee jerk reaction where you claim anything that contradicts your perspective of communism as the "ultimate evil" is "defending it".

Again you're the one straw manning (but then again your case rests on fallacies because you can only push fallacious arguments) because I said that you fell for Nazi propaganda, not that you repeated it.

But there were inventions made in the USSR and you asked for inventions made under the USSR, not "communist ones". You're just moving the goal post.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

So the issue isn't that I'm adamant about defending communism, you're just dead set on distorting history to contrive a left wing counterpart as bad as Nazi Germany. That's the root of the whole "Soviets as bad as Nazis" narrative.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

For example, you're complaining that I'm adamant about defending communism for explaining why the notion of vanguard communism couldn't explain Soviet Policy immediately before and during WW2 when you're the one who brought it up in the first place.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

ADF: *makes fallacious claim about the USSR (usually in the form of whataboutism).

AQO: *well that's incorrect because [insert scholarly source]

ADF: *You're hell bent of defending communists.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

But are claims that make communism seem like a greater danger than it really is harmful? You tell me:

But yeah, it's only about "defending tyrannical regimes".

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Also:





When the threat of communism is overblown, it allows authoritarian movements in the US to reconcile power via red baiting.

[ADFSDF1996]

More gish gallop that is all over the place. We went from talking about songs to you going on a irrelevant repetitive political rant. Quite common for someone to change the subject whenever they don’t have any valid counter arguments.

Here is an apolitical song called Westerwald which talks about nature.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1F_CUX0EwtY

And here is an actual Nazi political song
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2mpAkNjiM-M

Can you tell the difference?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And was my argument that anything associated with the Wehrmacht was automatically connected with the Nazi ideology? Nope (again you're straw manning because you can't put forth a valid argument), it was that you can't automatically associate something used by the Soviets in WW2 and there was a better case for associating something used by the Wehrmacht with Nazi ideology than something used by the Red Army with communist ideology because the Wehrmacht was fighting for a core tenet of Nazi ideology (Lebensraum) while the "political belief" that you should fight back when your country is invaded is hardly exclusive to communism.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And a Gish Gallop has to be composed of fallacious arguments by definition. Red baiting has been a huge block to socioeconomic progress in the US but let me summarize it a bit better: Neo fascists use a variety of tactics to sneak their beliefs into the mainstream. One of the more obvious ones is to white wash the history of the Nazis via Holocaust Denial but they like to use more subtle ones. One of these is to claim that the Nazis weren't right wing, making it harder for people to recognize when a neo-fascist regime comes to power and the other to the "USSR was as bad as the Nazis" narrative to direct scrutiny that would be best used against them at the left. And no I'm not "denying" that there are extremist left wing movements in the US, I'm saying that given that the predominate right wing party in the US now closely resembles extremist (and I'm using the word "extremist" here instead of "authoritarian" because there's a lot more wrong with fascism than its' repressive nature) parties than democratic (lowercase d) ones while the political position of the bulk of the American left hasn't changed, there is a far greater risk of extremism coming from the right and that's where more attention should be directed. "Oh oh, but extremism is extremism" no shit but that doesn't mean that more prominent extremist regimes in a country shouldn't get less scrutiny than less prominent ones.
"Holocaust was fake" + "Nazis were left wing" + "USSR was as bad as Nazi Germany" = lies by the extreme right to slip their ideology into the Overton window. And given that it's easier to tout the second two lines, those are the ones the less overt neo-fascists (along with people duped into peddling their nonsense) are going to spit under the façade of being against fascism (proverbial wolves in sheep's' clothing).

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Does someone liking German WW2 songs mean that someone has Fascist sympathies by default? Nope but if they're going to pull a 180 and say that a Red Army poster about fighting Nazism is "communist propaganda" (because you know, being against Nazis is something SO exclusive to communists), that's a dead giveaway.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

I mean look at how much these WW2 Soviet Posters "glorify communism"
i.guim.co.uk/.../...500-a36427fb39ae-1024x768.jpeg

[ADFSDF1996]

You don’t seem to understand the flaw in your narrative. You just said agreed with me that listening German military songs doesn’t make someone a Nazi yet you still bothered to post a WWII Soviet propaganda poster while saying “We must expose fascism”. That’s just you contradicting yourself.

And I don’t think you understand what gish galloping is. It’s trying to overwhelm an opponent with a large number of arguments without regard for relevancy or accuracy. Which you still continue to do.

Who would have known that being anti communist automatically makes you a “Nazi”. Or at least that’s what leftists want you to believe.

Basically your whole narrative is like you purposefully crashing your bike against a wall only to blame someone else for it.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Actually I posted that picture because you spit neo-fascist talking points, not because you listen to German songs. But you being all to happy to use the guilt by association fallacy when it comes to the USSR while complaining about it being used with regards to Nazi Germany affirmed the true motives behind your actions (whether intentional or because you were subconsciously duped into it). You like deliberately misrepresenting what people say don't you?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Also I've noticed a pattern with how you approach issues:

Saying vanguard communism operates via intigating uprisings versus raw conquest = "sugar coating it being a communist dictatorship".

Saying that Stalins' acceptance of religion is what allowed the USSR to win is an unsupportable conclusion = "claiming that it was insignificant in the Soviet war effort".

Saying that there is a stronger political underpinning behind the Wehrmachts' fight that the Red Army's = "saying that anything associated with the Wehrmacht was pro-Nazi".

Saying that because the Red Army was fighting to defend their homeland = "claiming that any military campaign ran by the USSR was purely defensive".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qdvm6h8WKg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgpytjlW5wU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH10DQstVt4

[ADFSDF1996]

Again you keep backpedaling and contradicting yourself. That’s all that needs to be said.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

It only seems that way to you because (as I've already explained) you can only view things in absolutes.

[ADFSDF1996]

It’s one thing to say that the Russian people and Slavs in general fought for survival, it’s another thing to try paint the Soviet government as the lesser evil.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

It's another thing but nonetheless demonstrable if you compare how many civilians were killed by the Red Army and the Wehrmacht during the war. Now you could go on about crimes committed by the USSR before and after the war but you could do that with pretty much any of the allied countries to make a similar case for them being "as bad as Nazi Germany". I mean this whole "Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were equally bad" narrative has about as much credence as the "bombenholocaust" revisionist garbage which tries to compare Nazi extermination policy to the allied bombing of German cities. Yes atrocities are atrocities BUT because both sides commits atrocities (because in war pretty much everyone has committed atrocities) doesn't automatically imply both sides are "equally bad"; that's a textbook false equivalence.

[ADFSDF1996]

Hence why I said on many occasions on other posts that Soviet atrocities were going on before and after World war 2. If the Soviets had only committed atrocities during WWII, then you could make the argument that they were the lesser evil when compared to the Nazi but since they were committing numerous human rights violations pre and post WWII that are comparable to Nazi atrocities, is why both the USSR (government) and the Nazis (government) were equally evil. Hence defending one or the other is blatant hypocrisy.

If you really want to defend a communist country so bad then defend Yugoslavia under Tito who pretty much stood up to both the Nazis and the Soviets. Not to mention he is considered to be a “benevolent dictator”.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Let me guess: you're using BS figures from Cold War era propagandists about Stalin Killing 20-35 million people -_-

If we look at excess deaths in the USSR, the range of people killed by Stalin's' policy is between 3.2 and 5.5 million. Now many people use the 6 million people number killed by the Nazis but this number is misleading because it only refers to the number of Jews killed by the Nazis. All told, 5 million Polish Civilians (3 million of whom were Jewish) and and 15 million Soviet Civilians were killed (2 million of whom were Jewish) during the war so that bumps the death toll inflicted by the Nazis to +21 million (5 times as much as the mean estimate for those who were killed under Stalin). If you include the deaths of 3 million Soviet POWs the death toll is around 24 million so no, as bad as Stalin's' regime was, it wasn't as bad as the Nazis (and contrary to your absolutist view, saying something isn't as bad as the Nazis isn't "defending them"). Cold war era estimates that gave death tolls comparable of to Nazi Germany were based on estimates that attributed (ironically enough) the Soviet Citizens killed as a result of the Nazi invasion to Joseph Stalin. Truth is the first casualty of war and this is no less true of the cold war and the only reason that the American Right clings to them so dearly (despite the fact that we've since had a chance to look at the Soviet archives so we've know these figures were blatantly wrong for over two decades) is because they want a way to say "look, look, OK the Nazis were super evil but a left wing regime can be just as bad".

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

"Defending communism" ≠ saying that it doesn't hold a candle in terms of cruelty of Fascism or the callousness of proprietarianism ('libertarian' capitalism). Claiming so is just Orwellian garbage on your part.

[ADFSDF1996]

There’s the biggest flaw of your narrative, assuming that I have the third reich in mind when debating this topic with you. It’s real funny how you always bring up the third reich whenever we talk politics, it’s a textbook example of Godwin’s law. I’m not sure if you actually read my post carefully but I’m clearly explaining how these German songs have nothing to do with Nazism.

It’s also funny how you keep contradicting yourself. You constantly say that you are not defending communism yet here you are spouting Sovieboo revisionism.

Funny how you are so adamant on defending the Soviet Union whom even the American liberals consider to be a repressive regime yet you don’t even bother to acknowledge Tito’s regime who was still authoritarian but was also anti Soviet despite being a “communist” regime at least upon first glance.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

That you'd explain why these song's have nothing to do with Nazism but say that because someone uses a Soviet Propaganda poster (even though the Wehrmacht's' war effort was politically motivated while fighting back when your nation is plundered and people slaughtered is a politically neutral position) shows your true colors.

If by "spouting sovieboo revisionism" you mean debunking cold war era propaganda (that was used to justify a litany of human rights abuses) then yep. Hey, I guess I'm also an apologist for Saddam because I said he didn't have WMDs and wasn't involved in the 9/11 attacks. Boy do I love defending the Baathist regime (I mean I could just as easily say that you're defending the Nazis by saying the USSR was worse than they were).

Holocaust denial isn't the only kind of revisionism around WW2, there's also attempts to portray the Nazis as being on the left and claiming that the allies were as bad as Nazi Germany and the latter holds as true for the USSR as it does for the whole "bombenholocaust" narrative.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And who loves to talk shit about how the USSR was worse than the Nazis?

Fucking Wehraboos; this "sovieboo" labelling is just projection on your part.

[ADFSDF1996]

Soviet propaganda posters aren’t unique to WWII.

And you quite frankly haven’t “debunked” anything. Spouting off Soviet propaganda isn’t the same as debunking something. And simply pointing out the human rights violations of the USSR isn’t “Cold war propaganda” they are simple facts. And nowhere did I say the US was morally clean in regards to foreign affairs, so there you go again putting words in my mouth.

And what does the Iraq war have to do with this? Oh that’s right, nothing at all. That’s just you once again changing the subject whenever you run out of things to say.

And I don’t know where you get the idea that simply liking German culture makes someone a “wehraboo”. Only a person who is ignorant of Germany would assume that liking German culture makes someone a so called “Wehraboo”.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

-Saying that the USSR wasn't as bad as Nazi Germany isn't denying that it committed human rights abuses (Bailey and Motte).

-Wow apparently you don't know what an analogy is XD

-Soviet Posters aren't unique to WW2 but that still doesn't mean that they are glorifying communism by default any more (if not less so) than German WW2 songs are glorifying Nazism.

[ADFSDF1996]

Same old pattern from you, ignore my most important points in order to repeat the same argument.

1.) Here you are still assuming that I’m defending the third reich just so you can defend the Soviet Union. Again, Soviet atrocities aren’t unique to WWII, they were a common practice throughout the existence of the Soviet Union.

2.) A completely irrelevant analogy.

3.) Posters and songs are two different things. And again how many times do I have to repeat myself that none of these songs glorify Nazism because most of them predate the third reich. You could make a comparison between Nazi and Soviet propaganda posters but that’s not the comparison you are making. You are comparing two different things that can be compared to each other.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

1) I'm not assuming you're defending the third Reich, I'm saying that you claiming that I'm defending the USSR for saying it's not as bad as the Third Reich (over the course of the war or its' existence) would be as asinine as saying you're defending the Third Reich by saying it wasn't as bad as the USSR.

2) A relevant one because people used the same Orwellian drible you're using now against people who opposed the war.

3) And just because a poster was made by the USSR doesn't mean it was glorifying communism. The one I posted was about exposing Fascism and defending the motherland. The Soviets called WW2 on the Eastern Front the Great Patriotic War, not the Great People's War for a reason.

[ADFSDF1996]

1.) Why are you bringing up the third reich and operation Barbarossa on a topic where I’m trying to explain why something shouldn’t be associated with the third reich.

2.) What does the Iraq war have to do with German military music?

3.) Again, what does a Soviet propaganda poster have to do with a song about flowers?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

1) To illustrate the double standard you have (saying anything made by the Red Army is pro communist while saying the same isn't true for the Wehrmacht even though the Wehrmachts' fight was politically motivated while the Red Army was fighting an invader in WW2).

2) It doesn't; it has to do with you saying that I'm defending the USSR for calling out your false claims about it.

3) It doesn't, it's about you spewing the neo-fascist "USSR was as bad as Nazi Germany" talking point.

[ADFSDF1996]

I’ll reply to all three of your points in two sentences.

I’m not the one who brought up the third reich on this post, that was you. Not to mention that you used WWII Soviet propaganda on a post that has nothing to do with Nazism.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Actually mount average brought it up so again, you're just lying.

[ADFSDF1996]

Yeah cause he lacks the mental capacity to acknowledge that none of these songs have anything to do with Nazism. All he does is go around this website calling people “nazis” before blocking them.

So I don’t know what your point is.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

That on it's own wouldn't suggest it BUT when someone goes around pushing neo-fascist talking points (like the whole Socjus narrative which is a rebranding of the Kulturalbolshewismus propaganda tool) then it's a pretty good indicator.

[ADFSDF1996]

There is no correlation there either. It’s not just right wingers who have issue with SJWs, plenty of liberals frequently say that SJWs have gone cuckoo.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIjMJBSnRE

And it’s funny how you keep assuming I’m a “closeted Nazi” when not once did I ever say that i agree with Nazism. All I’m doing is defending German culture and tradition which is often shunned by the left who don’t seem to understand that German isn’t synonymous with Nazism. Furthermore quite a few of these songs were frequently played by East German NVA bands during the Cold War.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

The issue isn't you criticizing SJWs, it's you claiming that there part of a broader trend of a radicalized left.

[ADFSDF1996]

Again you don’t seem to understand that liberalism isn’t always synonymous with SJWs. You seem to think SJWs are always synonymous with liberals.

Groups that are SJWs are the commies and anarchists.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Ignoring for the moment that your claim is unfounded BS, the issue is you pushing the narrative that the American left is becoming radicalized and authoritarian; not that there isn't a radical section (although the right has become radicalized to the point that the GOP is more authoritarian than it is democratic [lowercase d]).

[ADFSDF1996]

It’s only “unfounded” because you disagree with it. Second of all you don’t seem to understand the difference between covert and overt authoritarianism.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

That's not the issue, the issue is that you're conflating covert with something that isn't substantiated by something other than knit picked pieces of information and anecdotal evidence.

[ADFSDF1996]

Let me guess, the only way to substantiate a claim is through “statistics” correct?

Completely disregarding the fact that statistics can be inaccurate because they don’t incorporate every factor and as such statistics are meant to be supplemental rather than the bulk of an argument.

That my friend is what is known as an argument from authority.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Partially correct, you have to analyze statistics from multiple sources to draw a broader conclusions (basically it's a synthesis). Anecdotes are just icing on the cake.

And if someone who repeatedly made claims backed by statistics and then made claim A without any data to back it and I cited the individual to back claim A, that would be an appeal to authority so again you're misusing argument fallacies.

[ADFSDF1996]

That’s the problem right there, you over rely on statistics only when they “support” your arguments. Again Statistics are only supplemental or rather the frosting on the cake, not the bread itself.

Nope an argument from authority is when a person says “see so and so says it therefore I’m correct” which is pretty much what you are doing.

And just because there are no statistics to support a argument doesn’t mean that argument is wrong. Just because a country doesn’t have sufficient research on a illness, does that mean that country doesn’t have that illness?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

When you're saying that I'm "over relying on statistics" what you mean is that I'm relying on them more than anecdotes, which is what you should do when approaching pretty much any question. And I'm not saying something is true because so and so says it's true (that would be the case if I was relying on anecdotes but that's what you're doing) I'm saying that X is more likely than your conjecture because X is supported by statistics.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Just because you have trouble comprehending something (in this case statistics) doesn't mean it isn't a more reliable source than anecdotes.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

And if statistics is just the "frosting on the cake" then what is the bread itself?

[ADFSDF1996]

Whoever said that anecdotes aren’t credible and whoever said that statistics are always accurate?

Second of all, I’m not the one who seems to have hard time comprehending a subject. Funny how you blatantly have ignored just about every single important point I made on this post just so you can keep saying “hurr durr but the Nazis man!”

We went from talking about music, to propaganda posters, the third reich, to the iraq war, to communism, to simple logic all in one post cause every time you run out of stuff to say you change the subject or resort to “Godwin’s law”

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Who said that? No one said anecdotes are never credible and statics are always accurate (see you're straw manning AGAIN) it's that statistics are more reliable than anecdotes (which should weigh more into determining what degree to pursue in college, someone who said that earning a degree in a given field wasn't worth the time and costs, or the mean income of different majors). Eyewitness testimony is the least reliable form of evidence for good reason. And we only jump around topics because you always pull a BS whataboutism claim along the lines of “hurr durr but the Soviets man!" that I then have to debunk and when I do you say "you're changing topics".

[ADFSDF1996]

You haven’t debunked a single thing pal.

From the very start you automatically assumed that I’m defending the third reich which I’m not. I’ve clearly told you a bunch of times that defending German culture isn’t synonymous with defending the third reich. Something you leftists seem to have a hard time understanding. Because Germanophobia seems to be a prevalent trait of leftism.

This whole post is supposed to be about apolitical German military music, yet you decided to introduce the irrelevant topic of “operation Barbarossa” because you see Nazis everywhere even when there are no Nazis around. Talk about Godwin’s law.

And again you blatantly ignored just about every single one of my valid points and also changed the subject quite a few times on this post which shows me that you don’t actually have any valid counter arguments and you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

I didn't say you were defending the Third Reich I said you were spitting neo-fascist propaganda and I only introduced the topic of Barbarossa to illustrate that while the Red Armys' main motivation for fighting wasn't ideologically driven while the Wehrmachts' was yet you say using material used by the Red Army is communist propaganda by default while there isn't necessarily a political connotation with material used by the Wehrmacht (i. e. there's a blatant double standard on your part).

"I’ve clearly told you a bunch of times that defending German culture isn’t synonymous with defending the third reich. Something you leftists seem to have a hard time understanding. Because Germanophobia seems to be a prevalent trait of leftism."

"Seems" to you maybe but the American left sees Germany as a more important partner to the US than the American right.



But manufacturing outrage; that's not something neo-fascists LOVE to do -_-

[ADFSDF1996]

“ I didn't say you were defending the Third Reich I said you were spitting neo-fascist propaganda”
Sounds very similar to “I’m not saying it was aliens but it was aliens.”

You haven’t given a single explanation of how liking German military songs makes me a “neo fascist”. Because you can’t since none of these songs have anything to do with politics. How many times do I have to repeat myself by telling you that these songs are strictly apolitical?

Again with you bogus statistics. Typical leftist MO. You do realize that the current chancellor of Germany use to be a Marxist in the GDR. It’s not surprising that many American leftists like yourself are fond of Merkel’s anti German patriotic attitudes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FVcspJhjjN4

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

-That's only because you see everything in absolutes.
-On it's own it doesn't but you making claims when put into context of you making claims analogous to "kulturbolschewismus" makes it a red flag to say the least.
-When you complain about "over reliance on statistics" what you're trying to do is put arguments based on stereotypes on the same level as actual data; in other words pure sophistry. Oh but it's not like a 9 second clip couldn't be taken out of context:
www.quora.com/Why-did-Angela-Merkel-throw-away-the-German-flag
And it could also be that many Germans have learned the lessons of history (like how people throw out claims of having anti-German Patriotic attitudes to silence opposition; oh the irony). And what you claimed is indeed the case then it would be odd that Germans have a more favorable view of the US during Liberal administrations than conservative ones.

[ADFSDF1996]

Yet again you ignored just about everything I just said just so you can spout the typical leftist “you’re a Nazi because you disagree with me” trope. Again I ask you, how is me liking traditional German apolitical songs equivalent with being sympathetic with Nazism? Since you have a hard time coming up with a answer I’ll answer it for you. There is no correlation because German isn’t synonymous with Nazism, it’s not rocket science.

And again, did you not understand what I just said? Germany’s current government leans slightly left so it’s no surprise that German opinion tends to be more favorable towards the US when there is a liberal politician in office. Now, if Germany had a right wing government then its most likely that German opinion would be more favorable towards the US when there is a Republican in office.

And I hate to break it to you but Quora opinions are just opinions.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Nope, I said you were spewing neo fascist propaganda because you used analogs to Nazi talking points; you're just using the "left calls everything that they don't agree with Nazis" trope. It's a tactic that's become widespread on the right. When someone calls out your dog whistle they try to discredit them by pulling the "you leftists call anything you don't like 'racist'" line.

The Germans elected a left wing government because people in Germany are very liberal which is probably why the American left views Germany in a more positive light than the right. Now you're just trying to justify conjuring fake outrage.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Oh scratch that last bit, the CDU is center right LMAO.

[ADFSDF1996]

I’m not the one who’s been changing subjects like a chameleon. Not to mention that you are blatantly saying that I’m spewing “fascist propaganda” only because you don’t have any valid counter arguments to my points.

It’s a well known fact that most of Western Europe is liberal because they are afraid of being associated with the tyrannies of the past. And a party being “center right” means nothing when most of the attitudes cater towards the left.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

I said that you're spewing fascist propaganda because you're using the same unfounded talking points the Nazis used to gain popular support; a renamed version of "cultural marxism" and spreading the dirty red (the other side of the clean Wehrmacht) myth. And to clarify, the dirty red myth isn't the idea that the Red Army committed atrocities (of course they did) but that the crimes were comparable with the Wehrmacht (kind of like the "bombenholocaust" narrative people like David Irving spews). So there's nothing to debunk; it's like saying that I call anyone I don't agree with racist if I was to call a Nazi racist.

"It’s a well known fact that most of Western Europe is liberal because they are afraid of being associated with the tyrannies of the past." well maybe that's some icing on the cake but the main reason is because they've learned from the past; they seem better at that than Americans:





www.nbcnews.com/.../history-repeats-migrant-children-be-deatained-former-japanese-internment-camp-n1030531

#NeverAgain

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbLzVZysFyM&t=1192s

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

But some other reasons that people in Wester Europe might vote liberal
-Longer life expectancies
-More efficient healthcare systems
-Better access to education
-More economic mobility
-lower incarceration rate etc.

And before you cry correlation doesn't equal causation; no shit but it makes a better case than an argument based on stereotypes (but yeah, ascribing policy to historic guilt; that's not something right wing extremist groups LOVE to do).

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

But if you're going to lie and misrepresent what I said (like how you keep saying that I said you defended the third Reich because you like German military songs) there's no point in wasting my time here (muted).

[ADFSDF1996]

@Ad_Quid_Orator

“ But some other reasons that people in Wester Europe might vote liberal
-Longer life expectancies
-More efficient healthcare systems
-Better access to education
-More economic mobility
-lower incarceration rate etc.”

You don’t exactly need to be “liberal” to experience those benefits. Even under right wing administrations, those European countries still have those benefits. So yet another null and irrelevant point of yours.

“ But if you're going to lie and misrepresent what I said (like how you keep saying that I said you defended the third Reich because you like German military songs) there's no point in wasting my time here (muted)”

Again I’m not the one who brought up the third reich, the Soviet Union or operation Barbarossa, that was all you. You seem to have a unusual obsession with Operation Barbarossa since you always bring it up, even when it’s irrelevant.

“ (muted).” Yeah finally you admit defeat.

[Bananaman177]

1488

When you go up against the Jews, you either win, or you get lampooned and lambasted endlessly for the next 5,000 years.

[wisefool]

Some of it was surprisingly good. I never get to hear German singing outside of industrial bands and this sounds like folk music. The orchestra songs remind me of military music I heard in video games as a kid.

[andreasderjuengere]

Some marches indeed sound impressing. I can live with it as a musical expression.
The problem that I personally have with them is that they somewhat glorify the killing machinery; and that it's very... ''Prussian''
So 'Lilli Marleen' from this list is most to my liking, although the song is lame.
We can do better

https://www.youtube.com/embed/LdVv_H-AhZ4

[Waffles731]

False, the best Military Songs are British, American, or Canadian, because they have sea shanties, none of these hold a candle to a good rendition of Spanish Ladies, Barrett's Privateers, or The Coast of High Barbary

[ADFSDF1996]

@Waffles731 Nah, Canuck and Brit songs never had the same worldwide influence that German military songs have.

American military songs are alright but they still pale in comparison to German military songs which are used by various military bands around the world including American, Canadian and British military bands. One of the main military marches of the British army is a German march called “Alte Kameraden”

[Waffles731]

https://youtu.be/70wkdqX8HP0

This is a British Military Song, written about British soldiers and sailors who had to leave their local wives in spain after the Peninsular Wars were won

[Waffles731]

This song is the unofficial anthem of the Royal Canadian Navy

https://youtu.be/3Z3oCJfnHO8

[Waffles731]

This song is an American Military Song about U. S Merchant Sailors fighting and winning against Barbary Pirates
https://youtu.be/mEGRueoU7G4

Sea Shanties are some of the Military songs of The U. S, Canada and The U. K

And they are all way way better than German military songs

[ADFSDF1996]

@Waffles731

That’s your opinion I don’t really like any of those songs. Besides none of them have had the same success as many of the German songs above.

Neither “Spanish ladies” “Barrett’s privateers” nor the “the coast of high Barbary” have been translated into over 80 languages, nor have they had monuments, restaurants, films and sequels named after them.

Aside from some of Sousa’s marches, The only other American military songs I do like are the marine’s hymn and the Japanese-American 442nd RCT fight song
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqv6tzeJ9R4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvu1NeveZGU

[Gsm24diecast]

Not a military song but... probably the most controversial German Song in our generation

https://youtu.be/NeQM1c-XCDc

[alligatorblues]

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.

[ADFSDF1996]

Well that can be interpreted in two ways.

1.) Military music is excellent music
2.) Military music isn’t real music

Either way there’s too many variables to lump all military music in one category. In my opinion military music is real music.

[American_Centurion]

Makes me want to blitzkrieg

[cth96190]

My favourite is Prussian Glory, followed by Erika.

[cth96190]

Addition: The band of my old Australian Armoured Corps regiment was skilled at playing the Panzer Lied.
When we were out bush, it was not unusual to see a Leopard 1 or an M113 APC flying a panzer pennant.

[stuntbrain]

Wagner - Ride of the Valkyries

[andreasderjuengere]

Cool song - unfortunately, it's not a military march :)

[IndyZee]

Have you ever heard John Philip Sousa?

[ADFSDF1996]

Yes, great composer and he was of part German ancestry as well.

[IndyZee]

Yeah, part German in lineage but he was American... not part of any German 'movement'. Just saying...

[ADFSDF1996]

Still I prefer the songs I listed here. Although his Washington post march and Stars and Stripes forever are pretty decent marches.

And American isn’t an ethnicity (genetic), it’s a nationality. Anyone who is an American citizen is an American regardless of their ethnic origins. That’s why we often differentiate between Japanese-Americans (like myself), German-Americans, Italian-Americans, etc.

With that being said, John Philip Sousa was an American of German-Portuguese ancestry.

[IndyZee]

Neither is German an ethnicity, so I fail to see your point there. I'm glad you took the time to Google him; Sousa was known as the 'American March King' and a formidable composer of his own right.

[ADFSDF1996]

German is an ethnicity that’s part of the Germanic peoples of Europe. This ethnicity has been called many names throughout history such as the Germani, Swabians, Prussians and currently Germans.

And yes I’ve been familiar with Sousa for quite a while. His marches are frequently played by many bands here in the states.

[OddBeMe]

I feel like invading another country now.

[MountAverage]

Is this your coming out, finally?

[SecretGardenBlood65]

Good take

[Daniel_Dano]

To be honest German nazi anthem is very good.

[strateguy632]

sounds good

[Avenoma]

lol nazis

[ADFSDF1996]

German isn’t always synonymous with “Nazi”.

[ADFSDF1996]

In fact, none of these songs are nazi songs.

[Avenoma]

I know. I'm just amused

[Avenoma]

Hard to deny that is conjures thoughts of them though.