Usually elves are portrayed as either white, other European, Asian or Middle-eastern in movies, TV-series, games and in other art. I'm curious if it's written a place which human phenotype ("race") an elf are supposed to resemble mostly. E. g. the authors saying: "Elves are tall and have fair hair, eyes and skin" or something like that: "Elves have narrow noses, slim faces and big eyes".
I've noticed a lot of racial diversity among elves, but rarely seen any black elves. I'm just curious. No, I'm not accusing anyone for being racist. I'm just asking if there are any traditional or cultural reasons for it; if there's a meaning behind it or if it symbolizes something special. Same reason I'm curious on why witches are either portrayed as old, ugly and green hags wearing pointy black hats and having a big nose and why more human looking witches are portrayed as either redhead or blackhead. #Elf#Elves#Race#Black Nordic elvesMiddle-eastern elf
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It's not only white elves I've seen. But also East-Asian (Chinese/Korean/Japanese looking), Arabs, Persians, Spaniard, other Europeans etc. It's rarely black though like West-, South- and Central-Africa and Australian aborigines. Beautiful people exists everywhere on earth. Did whites in the past see fewer blacks than other none-whites?
I'd say it's mostly because elves are mythological creatures that originate from Germanic mythology and Norse mythology.
"Elf, plural Elves, in Germanic folklore, originally, a spirit of any kind, later specialized into a diminutive creature, usually in tiny human form. In the Prose, or Younger, Edda, elves were classified as light elves (who were fair) and dark elves (who were darker than pitch); these classifications are roughly equivalent to the Scottish seelie court and unseelie court. The notable characteristics of elves were mischief and volatility. They were believed at various times and in various regions to cause diseases in humans and cattle, to sit upon the breast of a sleeper and give him bad dreams (the German word for nightmare is Alpdrücken, or “elf-pressure”), and to steal human children and substitute changelings (deformed or weak elf or fairy children" Source (https://www. britannica. com/topic/elf-mythology)
I saw you mention the light elves from Alfhiem i dont know the german folklore however the Norse (from Norway) had two types the light elves and the dark elves it be intresting to compare informtion as i wonder did the germans belive in Ymir? Or is that a Norwegian myth?
Yes this is the mythos for the Origin of elves In old celtic norse the elves are from Elfhiem were two speices of elves exist one being feminine dessed in white they were tall faired haired and skined they were the "light elfves" they were cridited for the concept of spirit guides, garden Angeles to the nordic people at the time were the other was dark elfves they were masucline and of Chaos and miss deeds. Another comes from Irland ad like the light elfves were faired skinned and fair haired they were tall had beautiful features men and woman and the phrase "graceful" is used a lot however they were fickle meaning they would help you then turn on you their motives were "unknownable" or "unpredictable" they were caled the she folk. Iron is used as a ward however If you like i could share stories about both Elfhiem and the She folk your intreasted :).
They are not real but are invented characters. Santa is a mythical person that was invented white. That is the legacy of the character. Other colors or races may stroke individuals but Santa was invented and Santa was white. Elves were not typical of the cultural invented as any other white of close white character. Making Mickey Mouse white would not be Mickey. He was invented as a mouse that are shades of grey and black. He has no human racial traits in its' original form. If the black race has a successful black character it should remain black. It was invented as black. Also commercially these things are used as in the way it will be the most commercially successful.
The original Santa Claus wasn't supposed to look white. Santa Claus is inspired of the Greek-Turkish Catholic saint Nicholas. Why Santa Claus has a white beard is because of his age. Old people have white hair and beard regardless of "race". Santa Claus are also portrayed as a man with a narrow nose because not every none-whites have a broad nose. Many dark Greek and Turkish people have typically slim European facial features. Santa Claus usually have black eyes. Him having blue or green eyes is a newer thing.
Santa was created out off the concept off the Holly king ( god from pangan England) his colours were originally green and brown it was in fact coke-a-cola that change it to rd and white to suite the Company. However funny you should speak of not changing things AS Santa or saint Nick was change as i said above from pagan God to a Saint and from his colours green and brown too red and white. His elves were also created to be his helpers however Krampus also had elves that helpped him they were not seen as human or Even looking human they in fact were seen as more "lord of the Rings" goblin type that wore earth colours or Even seen as what today would call demionic.
If you think about it this is actually quite simple, elves are originating from middle age European folklore and Norse mythology. The predominant skin colour (or simply set the only skin colour) known to these people was white back then, so the mythical beings known as elves also have been portrait white. Portraying elves as black could therefor be seen als cultural appropriation.
It's not only white elves I've seen. But also East-Asian (Chinese/Korean/Japanese looking), Arabs, Persians, Spaniard, other Europeans etc. It's rarely black though like West-, South- and Central-Africa and Australian aborigines.
This is probably the case because of the established trade routes. In the middle ages there where almost no established trade routes to Africa, most trade routes where going over land and there for it was easier for the mythology to travel. You have to take into consideration that one of the goods a traveling merchant was bringing with him where also stories from far away countries so the stories and images of elves could easy have made there way into the Arabian/Persian area, even as far as China or even Japan, more easily then via the Via Maris or the King's Highway (ancient trad routes into Egypt). And other historical texts and sources shows, that humans easily take on and adapt some foreign concepts and customs into there own culture.
1) Elves are part of the Western European mythology, why on Earth would they be black? 2) In classical high fantasy (essentially every derivation of Tolkien's work) elves are not even "white" white. They are marble white, sort of like a dead body, or someone encased in matte white foundation makeup. They don't look caucasian in terms of skincolor, and that's obvious. And as such, the inversion of said super-white elves are elves with dark-grey-ish skin for example. So you wouldn't normally see brown elves, simply because that doesn't seem the be the natural pigmentation of their skin in fantasy settings. 3) Obviously you haven't played The Elder Scrolls series I guess In TES there are several races of elves (mer): Altmer, or high elves (because they are tall) range from white to yellowish green, in canon it's described as "pale with a golden hue" Dunmer, or dark elves (because they have characteristically dark skin) range from light grey to light green to light blue (rare) to actual black. Bosmer, or wood elves (because they live in the woods, duh) usually have a skin color ranging from light brown to pale tan to light green. Orsimer, or orcs (well, they are just orcs) have green to dark brown skin color.
As you can see, Dunmer are as close as you can get to actual black skintone. And just how black that is? See for yourself:
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The elven equivalent I believe would be "dark elves," which has a wide variety of implications depending on which game or series you're referencing. Usually they have grey or bluish skin rather than dark shades of brown, which contrasts the stereotype of fair or even ashen-white elves. Being exceptionally beautiful or perfect is also not always the case with elves, and perfect examples of that include the rather pathetic ones that are largely inferior to humans from the Dragon Age game series, and the variety of elves portrayed in the Elder Scrolls universe, which are often conniving and deceitful.
As far as historical mythology is concerned, you could probably attribute it to the fact that "elves" originate from areas that were dominated by white or fair-skinned humans. You have to remember that long-distance travel was relatively rare until fairly recent history, and most Scandinavians never saw anything south of northern Europe until only a few hundred years ago, by which point very few mythical beings such as these were created for anything other than known to be fictional stories.
"most Scandinavians never saw anything south of northern Europe until only a few hundred years ago"
While yes that may be true for most but Scandinavians travelled wide and far from the Viking era onwards as far down as Constantinople serving in the Varangian Guard there and even seeing Africans at the slavemarkets there they refered to them as Blåmænd One of the historical sources for Viking ages is written by an Arab who met some the whole burning boat iconic Viking comes from that So while yes most didn't go south a fair bit did and brought back knowledge of the world
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Fantasy has always had almost all "White" characters. But I did get to play an Asian monk once! He was the coldest character I ever played. The Asthetic Warrior Kit. He was a monk who also was a psionicist. He was an expert at psycho-metabolism. He could literally change the elemental structure of his body and in addition, he was proficient in the martial arts. So I would turn my body into adamantium and then whup guy's tails because I was basically invulnerable to physical attacks.
I am not insulted by it. When I wanted to do something with "Black" characters, I simply created them in video games or found a group where they allowed it.
@dantetheexplorer Oh, the kit itself was from 1st edition rules. The DM made an exception for me. Then I used the Complete Psionics Handbook to construct the rest of the character.
Yeah, those were the good old days!!!
There were no "Black" characters. But me and some of the other non-"White" guys wanted the chance to play non-"White" characters. And the only world that was developed enough was Kara-Tur. So one guy played a Samurai. And I played a monk. It was great!
That's what I thought. Because I don't remember "Aesthetic Warrior" being one of the kits in The Complete Psionics Handbook but I definitely remember Psychometabolism powers. Trip down memory lane.
@dantetheexplorer Yeah, that was the only discipline that made any sense to play at the time to me. Not certain what they have done to psionics since then. What edition are they on now, 4th Edition?
5th. I played until 3.5. I remember going through the 4th Edition's PH, and my first thought was that they've completely World-of-Warcraft-ed it. Never went back.
First off, it's important to recognize the root word. The word "elf" is a modernization of several older Saxon/Teutonic/Nordic words. In other words, they are a white invention. This, alone, tends to imply that the fairy-like elvenfolk would probably look like a smarter and more recently bathed version of themselves (hehehe!).
While I think it's cool that you are thinking about it, I don't think my people need to be elves. It just looks strange to me to have dark brown human skin embodying a Nordic myth - no matter how contrived. :)
It is because most people's ideas of Elves comes from how they are in Dungeons & Dragons which is the original table top RPG. They were a fair/pale skinned race in D&D until they introduced dark elves which are often blue or dark gray (still not black though). Most fantasy characters are White because most of them were originally created by European people or their descendants in the USA a long time ago. Eventually they started including monks and other stuff because some of them were fascinated with Asian culture too. Elves are more representative of German and similar people, just like Dwarves are typically representative of Irish/Scottish people.
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Anonymous
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Elves are, culturally Northern and Western European (there is also a South and East Asian equivalent with a different name which I forget). These areas were of one race when the stories were born.
Part two, about witches, has to do with Christianity demonizing anything that is against their belief in god. Demonization is common in manipulative propaganda, some great and more relatable examples are the demonization of the Nazis by the Americans in WW2, and the current demonization of the "American Imperialists" by the North Koreans.
Elder Scrolls has elves. Bosmer (Wood elves), Altmer (High elves), Dunmer (Dark Elves), Falmer (Snow elves), and Dwemer (Dwarves, Deep elves). They all don't look the same. According to a wiki some the Bosmer are the smallest in terms of stature for males and Breton in terms of stature for females. As far as witches go they vary. Ugly is subjective though. Hagravens though aren't the most attractive things to look at though.
Elves, sprites, brownies etc were imagined by white European peoples. When people invent a ‘mythology’ they tend to draw upon imagination. Imagination tends to be limited often to experience and existing myth. This is why Europeans visualize Christ as white when he was not. This is also why Buddha was not imagined as Inuit. People draw from what they know.
If I had to guess, it would probably be because elves are European in origin, as I'm sure you already know, and that Europe had much more contact with East Asia and the Middle East than it did sub-Saharan Africa. What this does not explain though, however, is why American authors did not portray black elves. Even though black people were rare in Europe, they were always pretty common in the United States.
uuhh.. what? Elves are regularly portrayed as black.. Maybe you don't read much fantasy? Even one of the most famous Fantasy characters that is an elf is black..
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Isn't Elves a Northern European things? So people would imagining them with lighter features I think. Too maybe Black people aren't interested in elves "culture" so they just portray elves as White, etc... but not Black.
There are whole race of black elves - they're called Drow, though they live underground. My favorite character of all time is Drizzt Do'Urden by my favorite author R. A. Salvatore. Fun unsolicited fact - R. A. is left-handed.
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Anonymous
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Ahem.
Also, they're a *race* and we expect races to genetically transfer their phenotypes. Furthermore, they're generally tied to forests in temperature regions. If you want a black elf, you'd need to make a eleven civilization specifically acclimated to the tropics like the drow are to the underdark.
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It's like asking why theree isn't black vikings or black kings in european stories. Elves come from european folklore, back in a time where Europe was entirely white.
For African mythological creatures to exist, there had to have NOT been a bunch of white people capturing, pillaging, colonizing, terrorizing, or just flat out dismissing their presence / existence as much as they could at one point in history, sadly. . . Such a period has not come yet.
We are coming alone with stories like Fifth Season, Children of Blood and Bone and Black Panther, but the world doesn't seem to like us very much.
@Wammu Africa has a long history before white colonisation, before it black African Moores were trying to conquer and colonise territory in Europe, you reap what you sow. Also the arab-african slave trade existed long before the Europeans came.
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Because i think most those stories came from European culture and the idea that it's in the past and i think blacks were confined to Africa pretty much in the past...
I've seen many Middle-eastern and Asian elves too, so did the real Asians and Middle-eastern people have more contact with the Europeans than the black Africans in the past?
Not sure. Might have to do with the fact that elves are originally a European concept and in times of antiquity (prior to the 15th century) when European merchants and explorers traveled it was mostly to Asia and North Africa which is predominately Arab. Thus they would have interacted with very few if any black people.
Because all myths and saga about elves come from Asia and Europe as far as I know. And in most stories their description includes something about fair or pale skin.
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