I haven't voted because your answers suggest … confusion.The 'friend zone' is real. By that I mean, friendship is NOT a stage towards a relationship, you can actually be in a position where someone sees you as a friend, and from their perspective, there is ZERO chance of anything more.Is it manipulative to use friendship as a 'back door' to a relationship? manipulative suggests it would work. It doesn't. People who have someone who they've 'friend zoned' who complains about it, often turn around and complain that they thought the person was a real friend, and THEY also feel manipulated. Basically trying to ease into a relationship will make one, if not both people unhappy. Perhaps more significantly … most friends don't want to date you. So befriending people and waiting months before finding out they had zero interest is way too slow a way to meet people.As for your first point, 'the best relationships start as friendships', i'd say that's generally NOT true, but the issue isn't that being friends is bad. The best relationships have the friendship of a deep friendship, an emotional connection, and a burning desire for each other. So if you both are incredibly attracted to each other … how come you were comfortably friends for so long at the start? For this reason, i'd say relationships that start as friends, where something prevented them from moving beyond friendship, probably have a higher success rate than average (but still lots of room for failure - friendship is probably only 20% of a relationship). But it isn't that 'being friends first' helps. It's that being the sort of people who could have been friends helps. It also helps to be the sort of people who could have been fuck buddies, and also could have met and magnetically wanted to stay up all night talking. Ideally ALL of those hit early and hard.
But it’s also not an exact science.
Most terms have fuzzy definitions in everyday speech, that doesn't mean they don't have any meaning.I'm not even sure what it would mean to say you 'don't believe in the friend zone'. It's like saying you don't believe every friend can't be won over into suddenly wanting to fuck you. I mean by that definition, if you are friends with a gay guy is it just a matter of him being really nice before you want to fuck him? Or is he in the friend zone?
Most scientific theories are also theories with patterns based on probability.
The friend zone isn't a theory.It's a description of a scenario.People may then have theories about the 'friend zone'. I sense from one of your questions below you're wondering if being a 'nice guy' in the friend zone sabotages your chances. The answer is … it can, in borderline cases. But most of the time it makes no difference. The guy was in the friend zone because she's not attracted to him. He didn't 'play his cards wrong'. He just wasted months, avoiding being direct, and finally asked and got the same answer he'd have gotten the week after he met her: "I don't see you that way sorry"
So then dating is just a numbers game.
It is a numbers game, but not just a numbers game. If I was trying to distill it down as much as possible I'd say it's:- be a good or great version of yourself to boost attractiveness- be confident enough to be relatively clear about what you are looking for. That's attractive to people who want the same thing.- numbers game element- getting to 'no' fast: don't invest time where there's not mutual interest, don't waste time when you're incompatible, be willing to work where you have to overcome some things but are fundamentally compatible.
The problem I find with a lot of these advice articles around is that it basically tells you to be someone you’re not. Which might be good if you’re just looking for something short term but you can’t keep up a fake persona forever if you’re looking for something more long term.
Being someone you're not is not a good idea.On the other hand, insecurity or shyness are not personality traits, they're poor reactions to anxiety. They're not 'who someone is'.So don't be someone you're not, but don't embrace being someone scared and anxious. Realistically, none of us will ever be 'the best version of ourselves', but you want to be something in that direction.
Modern society encourages people to embrace imperfections and shyness etc. Also where do people meet potential partners? And if someone is hitting on girls everywhere, they get labelled as despair are or creepy or both.
Anyone telling to embrace shyness is lying to you. If you’re a natural introvert that’s fine but introversion and shyness are not the same. As for your last point I would suggest someone nervous about seeming creepy begin by getting comfortable with simply making small talk everywhere. Then learn to mildly flirt and read reactions. Then only ask out where there are ioi. Some of them will still say no but they won’t think you’re creepy.
I don’t know where my answer fits. I personally will not spend time with a guy alone if he has romantic feelings for me and I don’t feel the same. I’d rather not give false hope plus that makes me feel uncomfortable because I know I can’t give them what they want.I had to let go of a guy friend I had romantic feelings for since he didn’t feel the same. My feelings were very strong and it was distracting. Hanging out with him only gave me false hope. I had to let go and let the feelings die.
Have an opinion?
Yes there is a friend zone do you guys under the age of 30 want to be in it? No There no malice and what I’m about to say but this is true, Women friend zone guys because they are saving him for later or has him around because he’s the guy who will come running the moment they call, It the guy they should truly be with they call these guys there best friend but they never date him until either there biologically clock is beginning to stop and they want a baby or there old enough that guys don’t want to date them except that friend zoned guy they treat him like something healthy they put in there refrigerator and will eat later the bad boys is the cake they want now the friend zone is a terrible place to be for men under 30.I don’t think women consciously Make this decision they think there being harmless why not have a few guy friend they say, there right and wrong guys only talk to women to get in there pants nothing more nothing less why wait for her? when there’s a women who won’t friend zone you else where
This is what many men say but is there actually any scientific evidence to back this up?
Probably not and it would be hard to find if there is. I’ll try to find one, Feminisms has pretty much block these kind of studies
Why has feminism blocked a scientific study?
Because google right now is a big left leaning company and studies like that even though there scientific may paint women in a bad light even though it’s just the dating game (I’m more of a right leaning independent) if I was to align my self with a party it would be libertarian
Science can just be interpreted however one wants it to be interpreted but you can’t change the facts.
Friends first. Then opening a front door to relationship.
The friend zone exists, but guys choose to stay there if put there.
What is that? The mcdonalds play place?
If it's real when I've been in it
There’s nothing that fits with It happens because the person being zoned I don’t find appealing as a partner
Being appealing takes effort.
Sure and when your in your 40s and if your not married and you have a choice between the 21 year old men or the 60-70 year old men and this guy your age is still around you would probably date him at that point, Think women want loyalty the guy you friend zone is the only guy your age who will date you what do you do then?
Don’t presume to know my choices or insinuate that you do. If I’m older or old and alone, I’ll go with whom I please. If I friend zone someone, I did it for a reason. If you’re in there, I’m not letting you back out.
The thing is most women (not all). Want to settle down with the “perfect guy”. When there in there 20s and most women who are either married and divorced or never married by the time they hit there last 30s early 40s become unattractive to others There age so they settle. I’ve been friend zoned a lot at the point in my life I don’t need any more friends if I want to hang out with friends we’ll go to a ball game or camping or maybe even go to another country (aka Victoria or Vancouver) if I feel like I’m being friend zoned I don’t need that women in my life and move on. When I talk to a women for an extended period of time that’s not at the school (work) I want a relationship, a lot of guys want to know what under that skirt which I do to but I’m not that guy looking for a one night stand either of it happens that way great but I’d rather be with a women I’m interested and to me friend zone doesn’t count
And how does any of that concern me?
Your a women it’s the dating game it concern all of use (not that last part but the generalization I made)
I’m not in the dating game at all, nor intention of marrying, finding mr perfect or having kids. So I’ll ask you again, how does this concern me?
Clearly is doesn’t at this point in your life, if you choose to have a boyfriend husband whatever later in your life it will right now it clearly doesn’t. And honestly any guy who would let you or anyone else friend zone then isn’t worth your time
I have zero intention of marrying. Dating, maybe. But that’s it. Indeed. Whoever I friendzone is not worth my time.
That’s fine do you when I’m generalizing I’m not talking about you, And I agree most women aren’t worth a guys time and most guys aren’t worth a girls time as long as your happy, One thing get rid of the friend zone just don’t talk to the guys who aren’t worth of you, unless there your boss then don’t cut him out you need that jobn
I do it because I may value them as a friend but nothing more. If I don’t like someone at all then I don’t talk to them.
And you do realize most of these guys especially if there younger then 30 want the relationship, they don’t care about the value of a friendship right?
What they want doesn’t concern me if it isn’t what I want.
Then clearly your male friends are betas who couldn’t get laid by a 1000 90 year old women even she wouldn’t want to be with them lol these guys aren’t worth your time even as friends lol. What benefit do you get for being there friend?
Don’t think you can tell who of my friends are worthy of being my friends. That’s not your place. Depends on who it is. Road trips, casual sex, gaming sessions, going to movies etc.
Ah so you do have ones you keep around for the fun purposes, lol also I’ve never been one to stay in my place it’s to much fun going out.So why not go on road trips or the movies or game with your girlfriends and do you pay 50/50 on these trips or does the guy pay or you pay?
Of course. Girls get itches too if you catch my drift. Oh I do. For all of that ;) But perversion aside, I’m usually doing half of it or all of it if it’s my plan.
lol I get it. And then your a better women the then ones I’ve meat most of the women I’ve meat like to play little games like friend zoning so they can pretty much have back up guys they never pay for there own stuff I knew this girl who went out with a guy making a million dollars a year she made him spend 5,000 dollars on a date and left the guy hanging. Not to sounds shallow but if a guy spend 5000 dollars on a date the girl should at least put out for that, 50-100 no but 5000. he bought her diamond ear rings they went to the most expensive restaurant in town downed a few experience bottles of whine I don't know all they did but she said it came out to about 5000 talk about really trying to impress her and nothing never called him again she said she just wanted to feel special for a night that was the last girl who friend zoned me glad I never dating her
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