One more thing. Buy meat from only good sources where the animals are treated well and given proper food and they cause less wastage and stuff... Overall more efficient. If it's expensive then eat less meat but it's good for health and the environment. I also don't want to eat a lot of meat because of the unhealthy stuff the animals are fed and also the hormones that they are given.
@TripleAce That's true, but at least they die living in a place where they're treated kindly instead of a place that doesn't even let them go outside and are kept in cages.
@TripleAce Well, eating meat because we need protein is a necessity though. We don't force other animals in the wild to eat old plants. We deserve to eat animal products as much as a meat eater in the wild needs meats to survive.
@Elaine_17 tigers and lions are pure carnivore.. savages, they can eat raw flesh... can we? lol... no do we even have the tools to rip into raw flesh like that... no lol can we only live off meat... nope
however, lets play into that for a second --> tigers don't have a moral conscious... tigers can't collectively come together and tell each other its bad to eat those animals... they just do whats instinct... we humans have the intelligence to set up moral authority ,,,, we are smart enough to know that we can survive of plant based foods and hurting other animals is a unnecessary action especially factory farming... thats pure slavery
@Elaine_17 we literally slave these animals,, rape them to pregnant them by sticking a hand in their anus... forcefully... then we constantly separate mothers and babies, throughout her whole life... we milk them dry... until they have no life left in them... then when all that is done, we sent them to the slaughter house to get killed
@TripleAce Well when you say if we have the tools, I assume we do since we have knifes and swords to do so. I mean we used to skin animals for their fur. I mean omnivores don't choose between only eating meat or only eating, and we're omnivores. We ARE intelligent beings, but we can't go against our own human design so easily. If we were to feed carnivores only plants, how do you think that would look? Would they still be the same strong beasts we know today? Would they survive eating only plants? Also, that's why we should be treating farm animals kindly despite the fact that we choose to include meat in our diets.
@Elaine_17 we aren't given natural tools... to eat meat... out intestines and teeth are just not designed to tear into meat the way a natural predator does... yes we needed meat at one time to get enough calories and nutrients to develop our brains.. but today it doesn't seem like we actually need it anymore
im pretty sure we have tons of vegetarians that are healthy... in fact I'm sure they are more healthy even... so the question is why not? taste... does it come own to taste and texture.. ya I get meat is tasty lol...
would you like it if someone saw your dog as dinner? cause in some countries they eat dog lol.
just discussing lol.. not arguing 😛 but most countries just factory farm... its will probably never be done properly... the animals are going through immense suffering and pain their whole lives... breeding after breeding...
I eat meat too too don't worry lol.. im just understanding us better by hearing your opinions...
The issue with meat is that animals are fed with nasty stuff and hormones to make them fat quickly. I can tell which animals are injected and which are not since I saw many of them being butchered. The injected ones always have excess water retention, they move and behave like they are uncomfortable, have so much saliva coming out of their mouths plus they are constantly sick and have higher chances of dying early.
The ones raised by ordinary rural farmers grow up eating grass and other good natural stuff and you could tell that they are healthy, and they are also very calm, they don't attack people. There is very little, almost no fat in their meat.
I actually know a man who had severe liver problems and died very early. He tended to get meat from the injected animals.
Even then one can still wonder is it really necessary to kill the animals we grow to love... I dunno its a tuff one... when we don't have to.. but lets say we do, yes I agree with you there that its at least better to raise them how you described, the better way --> but that would never happen because people will continue to factory farm... something just seems so wrong with that, creating new life repeatedly just to suffer...
Why would I bother doing any of this? I love animals and all, and the way certain animals are killed is awful, but not everyone needs to cut meat out. I love meat, especially red meat, and it makes me happy. I don’t know if this was your intention or not, but this sounds like you’re trying to enforce veganism, or some forms of it, onto people who don’t want it.
Great take! I can't agree with bio-degradable carrier bags though. They take much longer to turn into compost than the time the plants have to create compost, because in the words of the manager "even the rain worms wouldn't touch those bags made of corn".
So here's the thing: I'm a meat eater because I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat. I don't believe that animals are entitled to any sort of rights.
Now, the environmental argument for eating less meat is more compelling, however you do realize that eating less meat will directly reduce the number of animals too right? It isn't like they'll all go free, we will cut down their numbers and cows will still exist solely for food or not at all.
Why is everyone so harsh about this? This is practically like an article informing others. You didn't have to click on this article. She's just informing us, not criticizing in any way. You can either make a decision to listen and take action to it, or you do not.
I wish I could use less animal products, but I can't bring myself to it. I've been raised (almost) in the country side, we had cows, rabbits, goats, sheep, pigs, we still have hens, we've had few more types of animals and I've always consumed such prodiucts. They're such a big part of my diet, that if I remove them, I start feeling ill, just the same as if I stop having sugar. Also I doubt the solutions you offer would help even a bit, unless it's a wordwide change. But stil - nice take.
The biodegradable thing is the only one i would be willing to do. Now, answer me this What do you propose to do, about overpopulation of deer or about the millions of feral pigs in the south who are an invasive speciee that are responisble for 8 BILLION DOLLARS of ecological damage a year. Cause the only real answers tk either of those things involve bullets
I'm vegan, but I'm not unreasonable. I understand that hunting is sometimes necessary to protect an ecosystem, but over-breeding animals and putting them through terrible things is creating an even bigger problem.
Every time a Vegtard post some "Don't eat meat" crap... I eat extra meat.
Stop trying to tell me what to do. If you want to eat grass, go ahead! Stop trying to "educate" or "help". No one cares about your reasons.
Humans are NOT omnivores.
Trying to play the "I am not like those other veg'assholes" card. You are making a post telling people to reduce their meat intake "for animal's sake"... You ARE exactly "One of those"
I'm so sorry that you're so full of darkness that you feel the need to do that, and to insult me. But it's alright, I forgive you.
I'm not telling you what to do my angel, I'm only here to offer easy suggestions that don't require you to quit eating all meat. Every little bit can help the planet and the animals, which is all that matters to me.
Well, I personally only eat meat three times a week, since it can be unhealthy to eat it every other day. It helps when its from a local farmer I trust. there's also lots of meals where meat can be switched to fish.
Great take. I am vegetarian. I know the fact that all the suffering and emotional pain which animal suffers , all that is gets absorbed by humans. That’s why they’re so depressed all the time and have mental disorders.
Vegetarians eat dairy and some eat eggs or both. Have you tried any dairy/milk alternatives? Like almond milk? There's tons of different options, kind of overwhelming but it's just about trying each one and seeing which one you like best. There's also dairy-free cheeses, yogurts, and ice creams.
Just think about this: Are there any other species that drink breast milk past infancy? Are there any other species that drink another species milk? Why are we, as adults still drinking breast milk... and why are we drinking another species breast milk? That milk isn't made for us, it's made for baby cows so they can grow into the massive gentle beasts they are. So by purchasing dairy products, you're taking away a baby's food. I can tell you're a compassionate person. I was vegetarian for a year and then I went vegan when I learn about how cruel the dairy and egg industries are.
If you would like, there's a free vegan challenge for 22 days. You get assigned a mentor and they help you with recipes, where to get certain foods, tailoring a diet for your lifestyle, and any questions you have. It's a great resource! https://www.challenge22.com/challenge22/
Out of curiosity, do you support in vitro meat? I mean no animals have to experience pain to get the meat, people who eat meat are satisfied, and it's more ecofriendly.
That's killing two birds with one stone. Also this: *smashes two birds with a large rock*
You realize, of course, that if meat-eating is greatly reduced, all those cows won't just be set free to happily wander the hills. There are now only about 10% as many horses in the US as there were in 1900. The surplus was ground into glue and pet food...
Why go vegan? Cuz animals get killed every day so that we can eat? WELL I SAY FUCK THAT CUZ DEM PLANTS HAV LIFE TOO. If you treat hispanics and Asians differently you're a rasist, but if you treat dem animals differently from dem plants nothing happens! Except that you get a lot of shit from people, cuz you re probably a vegan or sth. Ma point is, just open your mind, fellow eartherners.
Damn this was like a really passive take and everyone is like super triggered. I am not, nor do I plan on being vegan/vegetarian myself, but I find it strange people are so touchy about this...
Though I don't necessarily agree with your views, I like your ideas. Some of those would be good to include in a personal diet. I love the Meatless Mondays idea. And I do enjoy non-dairy milk:)
All living things including plants have some form of consciousness and feel pain and distress. No matter what you put into your body some living thing in the world felt pain for you to eat that. There is zero way around it.
If you want to be a plant activist, you're best off being vegan anyway because it takes more plants to make a pound of meat or a steak than it does to be on a plant-based diet
It's been scientifically proven that plants are not sentient, meaning they do not have a brain or nervous system. They only react to stimuli. Venus flytraps for example, you can put a burning cigarette in its mouth and it will still close around the cigarette. Put that cigarette in an animal's mouth and they will spit it out and scream in pain.
I don't want to lose all the protein that I get by being a meat eater, but I understand the ethical reasons for veganism. A thing that I'm excited by is meat substitutes. A few of them are now real competitors to real meat in terms of flavor.
Protein comes from plants, not animals. You can get just as much protein on a vegan diet as you can eating meat, you can probably even get more. Beans and lentils and nuts are very high in protein and have 0 cholesterol (which clogs your arteries and can lead to heart disease and diabetes). If you want protein, you're best to go with a whole food plant-based diet as you're getting protein straight from the source. That's where every animal you eat gets their protein from. Patrick Baboumian is a strongman and he's vegan: www.greatveganathletes.com/patrik-baboumian-vegan-strongman Jehina Malik is a bodybuilder who has been vegan since birth: www.plantbuilt.com/.../
You can still have dairy that doesn't harm animals. There's tons of different alternatives; almond milk, soy milk, cashew milk, oat milk, hemp milk, rice milk, pea milk. There's also dairy-free cheeses, yogurts, and ice creams. So you don't ever have to stop having dairy
@0asis No I mean I like real milk. And dairy. From cows. My mom had goats once and I didn't even like goat milk. I don't think I'd like nut milk either.
You're missing the point. That "real millk" is made for baby cows. It's not made for us humans. By buying dairy products, you're taking away a baby's food. Trust me, there's more than nut milk and they're all delicious. There's oat milk, hemp milk, rice milk... tons of different kinds. And I guarantee you're bound to like one of them. Why do you think you wouldn't like it if you've never tried any kind of dairy alternative?
@0asis I'll try some. Okay? But I don't think I'll like them. I like cow milk. I can tell the difference.
And I don't think they are starving baby cows to sell milk... That would be animal cruelty. I'm pretty sure. My mom just weined the babies and then milked the goat after the baby didn't need it anymore. Nothing taken from either that they needed.
Yes, they taste different but the milk and dairy alternatives taste just as good and they're healthier for you.
Trust me, I've been researching this kind of stuff for months, and they do starve the baby cows to sell milk. What they do is they forcefully impregnate the cows. Within a few hours or days after birth, the baby cows are taken from their mothers. The babies don't get any of their mom's milk because we humans want it for ourselves. The baby boys are either killed in their first few days of life or kept alive, in tiny enclosures/cages until they can be killed for veal. The baby girls are forced into the same fate as their moms, being forcefully impregnated and constantly milked until they are so weak they can't go on, which is about 4 years max. Then they are taken to the slaughterhouse and killed for beef. Cows generally live up to 26 years but because they are giving birth and being milked so often, they age more rapidly and it really weakens their body
What you're talking about is a family farm. The way factory farms work (which is most likely where grocery stores get their animal products) is completely different as there is such a high demand for the products like milk and cheese, they don't have the time to ween the cows. They can't let the baby cows have their mother's milk because they would take it all and there wouldn't be enough to profit from. If you don't believe me, look into it yourself. I've seen hundreds of hours of raw footage of this happening in factory farms. They are very cruel places and don't care about the animals well-being
@0asis But they aren't starved. They just don't get milk. If they were starved all the beef would be really dry and tough and skinny. So I'm not taking the baby's milk. I'm taking the mother's youth. That's different.
But hang on. How do they *forcefully impregnate* a cow? ? ?
And are you sure that's how all farm cows are milked? My mom didn't do goats that way. And my friend's dad didn't do his cows that way.
Does that really matter? They're still killed as babies. You're still taking lives. They need that milk. That's what cow milk is made for, baby cows. Not for us. We are stealing it from them and the babies are being deprived of the valuable nutrients and hormones they need. No, you're taking the milk that's made specifically for the baby from it. Cow milk isn't produced for you. You can call it what you want but a mammal produces milk for their babies. What about elephant milk or dog milk?
Yes, I've seen hours and hours and hours of footage. I've seen how factory farms work. Just because small farms don't do it, doesn't mean every other farm does it that way. Here's just one video about how factory farming works, see for yourself: https://youtu.be/6RNFFRGz1Qs
@0asis... Look. I see your point. I get that this stuff is bad. I definitely don't want that factory milking stuff going on. BUT.
Just because it's made for the calf and naturally the calf needs the milk to survive. Does not mean taking the milk away kills it. BEFORE YOU CORRECT ME AGAIN: look at human babies. There are tons of babies who don't get the nutritients and stuff from their own mother's milk. Because she can't give it or the baby is allergic or she just doesn't want to breastfeed. Whatever the reason. And the baby gets substitute. And survives just fine.
If human babies can do it surely calves can survive on substitute milk perfectly healthily as well. I don't think that it is wrong to take the milk from the calves when they are kept alive using a substitute.
Now. About killing them as calves? Ya that sucks. That's mean. I wouldn't want to do that you're right. I hate killing baby animals. But...
@0asis... keep in mind they are just going to be killed once they grow up anyways. It's cutting a life of factory treatment short. If anything you should be happy they kill some of them young instead of them living through that. But yes I see your point.
The milking treatment. Ya that sucks. And I don't like how they treat the animals. But those are animals... Look there's a natural order to things. As far as the food chain we are on top. And it's balanced. Cows can show grass all they want and it's torture to the grass. Hay is grown only to be harvested and fed too cows. No one cares. Big deal.
Animals are higher up. You're right. They should not be tortured or mamed or abused. That's why we have laws against it. And I think those laws should keep this treatment (milking treatment of factories) from happening so harshly. I'll vote to change the law.
But Im gonna keep buying milk. Because I like it and they're gonna sell it anyways. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But theyre not human.
It indirectly kills the calf. My point is, if there are healthier, cruelty-free alternatives, then why are we causing so much pain and suffering to animals for taste pleasure?
The thing is, the boy calves are killed in their first few days of life because they are of no use to the dairy industry. Is that justifiable just for taste pleasure? We don't NEED to drink cow's milk and as as adults, we shouldn't be drinking breast milk at all, especially from another species. It doesn't matter about human babies. Would you drink dog milk? Take milk from puppies? My point is, that is not our milk and we have no right to take it.
Right now, you are justifying and defending animal cruelty. However you want to put it, isn't it still cruelty to animals? You seem like a compassionate person. We've all been taught that some lives are more valuable than others. For example, dogs. We would never harm them and if you saw someone kicking a dog, you would try to save the dog, right?
About killing them: The only reason these animals are in these horrible circumstances is because we as humans forcibly breed them into existence for our own taste pleasure. I would much prefer these animals never have to be put in these horrible situations in the first place.
You cannot justify by how an order works because nothing about the farming industry is natural or part of the natural circle of life. We are not on top of the food chain. https://youtu.be/-truOzeWBR8
If you want to go there with the plants feel pain argument, you're best off being vegan/plant-based anyway because much, much less plants are harmed being a vegan than being an omnivore as the animals eat way more vegetation and it takes more plants to make meat than it does to just eat straight up plants.
No matter how well farm animals are treated, they still end up in a slaughterhouse and it's cruel no matter what.
Also, plants are not sentient; they do not have brains or nervous systems. It's been scientifically proven. So plants don't feel pain. They can react to stimuli but they don't have pain receptors. Like a venus flytrap, you can put a cigarette butt in its mouth and it will still close. Plants don't feel pain
@0asis Then how come my sister didn't damn die of starvation as a baby? I'm not entirely ignorant I know a little bit about milk. And it is replacable. My sister is allergic to milk and she had to have formula for the first year of her life. And she is PERFECTLY FINE. "Stealing" milk from a cow is no worse than "stealing" some honey from bees. They don't NEED it to survive. There are alternatives.
Before I discuss the morality of killing newborn calves. Which I AM against but not in the same way you are. What is your stand on killing human babies in their first few days of life just because they aren't of use or are a hassle to the mother?
No we don't need to drink milk. You're right. I know. We don't need to wear clothes either. And that takes wool from sheep. We don't need oil. Getting oil takes away habitat from animals some. We dont NEED lots of things. But that doesn't make it WRONG to have them. It's "stealing" yes. But we are humans. And they are animals. Its not the same.
@0asis... How they treat them is cruel. Yes. I agree. But milking cows and butchering them isn't cruel as long as it's done humanely. And they aren't doing it humanely. And that's why I'm against it. I said I'd change the law if I could. To include stuff you can't do to dogs to cows. They're both animals after all. I do not want that stuff to happen. But just milking them humanely is not cruel. And I have no problem with that.
Yes I've been taught human lives are more important than animal lives. I loved our pets growing up. But our parents told us if the house caught on fire leave the dog to burn. We need to get to safety before worrying about the dog's life. Because otherwise we put ours at risk. Don't chase the dog across the road. Don't chase the dog into the woods at night. Don't approach a man being mean to a dog if it is night or they are armed.
Now I'm older and if I saw someone beating a dog up I would approach and tell them to stop. Yes. But I wouldn't put myself at risk.
Plants do feel pain. But I don't care. Because they're damn plants. Nobody cares.
Animals feel pain. And I do care. Because they're animals. But they are animals. As long as they are treated humanely and killed quickly I don't see a problem. As long as they aren't going extinct because of it.
Humans feel pain. And I do care. And I think the rest is self explanatory.
I understand what you're saying but that doesn't justify drinking cow's milk. We don't need cow's milk to survive so we're causing cruelty to animals for no good reason. It's completely unnecessary and not moral in any way. Sure, the baby cows will be able to survive without it but that doesn't give us the right to take it from them.
I think every being on earth has the right to live, no matter what species they are, they all have the right to a life and we as humans have no right to take the life of another being, unless in a survival situation but we are not in a survival situation so we should live and let live.
Most clothes are made from cotton which is a plant. And we can make fabric and clothing from synthetic materials. And if you want to get into taking the habitats from some animals, the farming industry is the leading cause of amazon deforestation. So going vegan is the best way to decrease your impact on that
Just because they're a different species than us doesn't give us the right to do with them what we want. They are sentient; they can feel pain, they feel happiness, sadness, they have brains and nervous systems. They have the right to life just as much as we do. They are innocent and have done nothing wrong so why are we treating them worse than rapists, murderers, and child molesters?
@0asis Animals don't have human rights! They don't have the right to property even if it's their body. We are predators naturally. And I will obstain from as much meat as I can through my religion to help. But not because I think we shouldn't kill any animals. Because of my religion. And because I think they should be killed humanely.
I see what you are saying as well. But honestly I can't agree with that. We have just as much right to eat beef as a wolf does. But we are held to a higher morality to kill them humanely because we are humans. That's the difference.
Overkilling and abusive killing I don't like. And I will oppose. But just killing for some food? No I am okay with that. I'll oppose it some from religion. And some because I do respect your opinion and I'll help you out if I can. But I'm not going vegetarian because I think cows have the right to life. That's never true. It's a cow. It doesn't have rights.
Thats why there are animal cruelty laws. And I am in favor of that.
THEY ARE NOT HUMAN. That's why I disagree with you.
THEY ARE ANIMALS. We are humans. Humans have rights. Animals should be cared for by us and treated humanely. But not because of them. Because that's our responsibility. And killing them to eat is okay. As long as it is within reason and we aren't blotting out the species. That's what I think.
Chinese people eat dogs too. I am okay with that-- as long as it's not MY dog. Because I'm taking care of my dog specifically and not the the species in general. But ya.
It's been scientifically proven that plants DO NOT feel pain. They do not have a nervous system or a brain, therefor cannot feel pain. Animals do not have human rights, that's true but that still does not justify us doing whatever we want to them. Every being has a right to their own body. It's not your body so you do not have the right to do whatever you please to it.
Your logic is not valid as we are overkilling tons of different species every single day for "food". So you're going against your own morals by eating animal products. For example, the egg industry kills over 500K male baby chicks in macerators (ground up alive) or suffocated as they are no use to the industry.
The animal cruelty laws don't help the animals in factory farms at all. They don't do anything. And why don't cows have rights but dogs do? Every animal has the right to live and we as humans have absolutely no right to take their life from them. Why do we value some animals lives over others? They're all animals and should all be treated with kindness and equality. We don't need to eat their bodies.
Killing them to eat is not okay as we have tons of alternatives that are way healthier and more sustainable. I could understand eating animals for survival but we have meat, dairy, and egg alternatives that taste just as good, if not better so it's completely unnecessary to keep funding the cruelty of these animals for our own taste pleasure
@0asis Animals are higher up. You're right. They should not be tortured or mamed or abused. That's why we have laws against it. And I think those laws should keep this treatment (milking treatment of factories) from happening so harshly. I'll vote to change the law.
How they treat them is cruel. Yes. I agree. But milking cows and butchering them isn't cruel as long as it's done humanely. And they aren't doing it humanely. And that's why I'm against it. I said I'd change the law if I could. To include stuff you can't do to dogs to cows. They're both animals after all. I do not want that stuff to happen. But just milking them humanely is not cruel. And I have no problem with that.
Overkilling and abusive killing I don't like. And I will oppose. But just killing for some food? No I am okay with that. I'll oppose it some from religion. And some because I do respect your opinion and I'll help you out if I can. But I'm not going vegetarian because I think cows have the right to life. ...
@0asis... Animals should be cared for by us and treated humanely. But not because of them. Because that's our responsibility. And killing them to eat is okay. As long as it is within reason and we aren't blotting out the species. That's what I think.
THIS IS ALL WHAT I HAVE ALREADY SAID. ^^ I already said I'm against abusive treatment and overkilling. And I think dogs and cows should be treated equally humanely. And I'll vote to change the animal cruelty laws to apply to farms and factories as well. Okay? I ALREADY SAID THAT.
Just killing them isn't wrong as long as it's done humanely and within reason. I will not change my mind in that. No matter how cruely they are treated before killed-- which is wrong. That doesn't mean treating them humanely before killed is wrong too. Because it's not. They are animals. We can eat them if we want. As long as it's not cruel or to extinction.
How about we just don't harm animals or use animals at all? The definition of "humane" means having or showing compassion. How do you kill a sentient being compassionately?
In factory farms, cows are milked numerous times every single day, it's not good for the animal to be milked that much and it harms them, just by milking them.
Your logic makes no sense because in order to eat animals, they are being overkilled by the millions. You cannot avoid overkilling if you eat animals. It's not possible in today's world.
You may not think cows have the right to life but they do. They deserve the right to life like cats and dogs and every other animal out there. Animals are NOT here for us to use and exploit. By eating animals, you're causing massive destruction to the rainforests, which in turn displaces countless animals that live there and you're funding animal cruelty. The only real way to avoid animal abuse and not contribute to it is to be vegan/plant-based
Laws aren't going to do anything. Changing laws will not help the animals. The animal agriculture industry is supply & demand. We as consumers control it. Where we put our money is what matters. If we buy chicken or bacon, they will continue to harm and torture animals. If we buy meat alternatives instead, the demand for animal products will go down. You can choose to be ignorant and close-minded but you're paying for animal cruelty.
@0asis WHEN did I say dogs have any more rights than cows? ? ? I am OKAY with other people eating dogs and cats. Like in China they do that. I'm fine with that. They are ANIMALS.
I was saying humane to mean. Like. Humane? I don't know. Painless as possible I guess.
How does eating ANIMALS cause destruction of FORESTS? ? ? and if you want to keep all animals from suffering. You have to do DAMN more than just not EATING them. You'd have to stop doing ANYTHING that at all could harm animals or their habitats. Cut buying any form of wood or furs. That kills animals and tears down their habitat. No taking any food that animals eat. Because that's THEIR food and we can't steal it. That cuts out almost EVERY FOOD. We'd have to grow our own. And even then if an animal goes to eat our food we can't stop them because they need it to survive. If we take it once they have it its stealing and they'll starve to death.
THAT is NOT a road I want to go down. You can. Im not. They don't own property.
If you don't think those laws do any good then I guess you wouldn't give a damn if all animal cruelty laws were erased? Hum? NO. You would care. Because they do crap. And they'd do it for cows too.
But they won't keep people from killing cows. Just from doing it cruelly. And from treating them like they do now in factories. They can still milk and butcher them. But not like that.
Just because they are of a different species doesn't justify killing and eating them. That logic doesn't make any sense.
Name a way you can humanely (compassionately) kill a sentient being. Name some ways.
Eating animals destroys rainforests because what they feed to farm animals is mainly soybean and corn and in order to grow enough of it to feed over 56 BILLION farm animals, they are cutting down the rainforests in order to grow food for livestock on factory farms. That's how. So by eating meat, you're also contributing to rainforest destruction, which as I said, also displaces tons of other animals and is causing species endangerment and even species extinction.
Being vegan is NOT about being perfect because that's impossible to not step on a bug or cause some impact; being vegan is about causing the least amount of impact as possible. It's about choosing more ethical options. Just because we cause an impact does NOT mean we should make the biggest impact possible, you know?
I do not purchase any fur or products made from animals. Most clothes are made from COTTON which comes from a plant. COTTON is a PLANT. And there's synthetic materials like polyurethane which can make FAKE leather. You know what tears down animal's habitat the most? EATING MEAT. Like I said, the rainforest is being cut down in order to be able to make enough soybean crops to feed to livestock. So you're best off being vegan if you don't want to destroy animal's habitats.
What are you even talking about taking animal's food? If the entire human race was vegan/plant-based, we would have MORE than enough food for us and animals. If we were all vegan, we would have enough food to feed 800 million people. Most of the plants get fed to livestock so if we stopped eating animals we would have enough food for everyone and everything.
@0asis So I'll buy milk from my friend's dad's farm. Where he's nice to the cows (until he butchers them). And I'll buy meat from him too. There. Less impact. No cruelty. Happy?
They are not just a different species than us. We are HUMAN. We have humanity. We are NOT ANIMALS! We have rights because WE ARE HUMAN. That's the difference. That's a HUGE difference.
By that logic "Animals don't own property", human babies and children don't own property either do then we should eat our own children then too.
You are paying for animal cruelty. Look where your money goes. It goes to slaughterhouses and factory farms where they torture and abuse animals and then kill them. That is animal cruelty and you're paying for it.
What? That makes no sense. I say they don't do anything because the factory farms don't usually abide by those laws. Free-range chickens for example, they are all crowded by the thousands into a bigger building and they get a little hole in the wall and that's free-range according to the RSPCA. I've looked this stuff up, I've seen it. I know it for a fact. The laws don't protect the animals at all. They still get neglected, abused and tortured until the day they get their neck slit. Laws don't do anything.
Name a way that isn't cruelly killing a sentient being that wants to live? How do you kill a sentient being in a kind way?
@0asis WAIT-- WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! ? If there is enough plants for everyone-- WHY DOES MAKING PLANTS INTO ANIMAL FOOD TEAR DOWN THEIR HABITAT? ! ?
There's enough food for everyone then don't complain about using food for animals to fatten them up!
@0asis A bullet to the base of the skull? BOOM-- dead. No pain. No cruelty. Just bang dead. They don't even know what hit them. That's as kind a death you're gonna get.
And HUMAN life is soooo FUCKING different from animal life!!! Don't even JOKE about that! HOW can you even compare a HUMAN child to a fucking animal! ? ! ?
What are you talking about? It's because there are 56 BILLION farm animals on the planet and it takes an insane amount of plants to feed each individual one. Do you know how much a cow eats? Plus the cows are being milked constantly so they need to eat more food than normal to be able to produce milk. So people are tearing down rainforests to make soybean crops to feed to cows and all other farm animals. There's tons of animals that live in the rainforest and their habitat is being destroyed so you can have a burger or a few pieces of bacon. That's why.
The thing is, there is enough but it's all going to livestock. It's not going to humans. It's all going to livestock so we currently aren't able to feed everyone. So if we instead were all plant-based, we would have more than enough if we weren't giving it to livestock
That doesn't kill them. I've seen it with my own eyes, the animals are still alive as they get their throat slit even after being bolt gunned in the head.
Cows are massive, a bolt gun doesn't kill them automatically. They are still alive even when being hung up on the conveyor after having been shot and had their neck slit. It's still cruel
Why are you being so rude and aggressive and uttering death threats? People think vegans are the aggressive, extreme ones. Look in the mirror.
We look different but humans and animals are both sentient beings. We both feel pain and sadness, happiness, we are all here on this earth together. We are no better than they are, if anything the human race is so much worse. We treat the most innocent beings on the planet worse than we treat rapists, murderers, and serial killers. Why?
I'm sorry. I was trying to be nice before. But I can't when you start to say humans and animals are equals.
I'm not agressive trust me. But I'm gonna be if you say stuff like that. I'm not and no human is the same as animals. There's a distinct difference. Don't try to argue with me about that. Because I will probably get mad if you call all of humanity the same as cows.
You are being quite aggressive. You are uttering death threats. All I'm doing is being compassionate and trying to save animals in any way I can.
I'm not saying cows ARE humans, I'm saying we are all creatures of this planet and to respect every being whether they have feathers or hooves or paws. We are all sentient beings. Sentient = ability to perceive or feel things. I'm saying it because every animal is SENTIENT. They ALL have BRAINS & NERVOUS SYSTEMS, like us. They feel pain, they have feelings, emotions, thoughts, just like us. No, they are not the same but they are sentient just like us. We have SIMILARITIES. Doesn't mean we are the EXACT SAME. Let the animals live their lives the way they want. We have alternative food options so it's completely unnecessary to eat and exploit animals when we have other, healthier, more ethical options.
Technically, we are mammals. We are a different species but that doesn't give us the right to treat others differently based on how they look.
@0asis When did I make death threats? If I did I doubt I meant to. I don't remember making any death threats...
No. We aren't animals. We aren't held to the same standards as animals. And we aren't treated the same way as animals. And we are not given the same rights as animals. It's not whack logic it's truth.
I know animals and humans are both sentient. But that doesn't mean we are equals.
Okay maybe I should've said this sooner. But I was raised Catholic. So I believe in the Creation or the Earth. And that means I DON'T believe we are the same as animals. We are charged with caring for them so they don't go extinct. But we have authority over them. Because they are animals. Not humans.
Surely you aren't saying animals should have human rights and be treated the same as humans.. right?
To quote you: "A bullet to the base of the skull? BOOM-- dead. No pain. No cruelty. Just bang dead. They don't even know what hit them. That's as kind a death you're gonna get." That is a death threat
That is your belief but that doesn't mean it's the truth. One of the amendments in the bible is "thou shall not kill", right? But by purchasing animal products, you're paying for animals to die. Think about this: if a man payed for someone to be killed, is he as guilty as the killer? Or is he innocent?
Science says we are all animals, we are just a different species. If god wanted us to eat his creatures, why would he give them the ability to feel pain? Why would he give them sentience? In the bible, does it say you HAVE to eat animals? Also, the animals are god's creatures. Would he want you to kill them and eat their bodies or would he rather you protected them and took care of all of them?
@0asis "Thou shalt not murder." Exodus 20:6 Murder. And it's talking to humans. About humans. In the same book it gives instructions on how to kill animals for sacrifices. Don't quote to me out of context. I may not be practicing that religion very well but I have most of it memorized.
YOU ASKED ME "how would you kill it humanely?" I just answered YOUR QUESTION! Don't call that a death threats all I did was tell you how to kill something. I never threatened to do it! Gees that's not even close to a death threat!
Science says we have lots in common with animals. Yay. We are similar. But we are HUMANS.
TELL ME you would treat a cow like a human. PLEASE tell me you would treat it with just as much respect and ask it's name. Shake it's hoof. Offer it food and a bed inside out of the rain? Be mad that it doesn't have the right to vote and people don't let a person marry a cow? Would you? Because if you really thought we were just animals you should have NO problem with that.
I highly doubt it's just about humans. It doesn't say "thou shalt not kill HUMANS" it simply says "Thou shalt not kill". You can put it into different context but I'm pretty sure God would prefer you didn't kill his precious creatures.
Shooting a sentient being in the head is a compassionate killing? So by your logic, if someone shot another person in the head that would be humane and wouldn't classify as murder then. Because you can't say it's murder for one sentient being but not another and the murderer can say "Judge, I shot them in the head, they felt no pain, therefore it is justified". That logic doesn't work.
We are still a SPECIES of ANIMALS. We are not cows or giraffes or elephants but we are still a SPECIES OF ANIMALS called HUMANS.
I would treat a cow with the same respect as a human being, yes. Because every being deserves to be treated how I would like to be treated. "Treat beings the way you want to be treated" golden rule of life.
You don't have to go to those lengths to respect animals. Just letting them live the life they one and not killing them, eating them, and exploiting them for their bodies is enough. You're being ridiculous.
Being sentient is not the difference! Being a damn human makes the difference! If I kill a human humanely it's murder. If I kill an animal humanely it's killing an animal humanely.
Humans have human rights. Cows DON'T! Because they're aren't HUMAN!
You want the difference defined? "So God made man in his own image. In the image of God He created him. Male and female He created them. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number. Fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."" Genisis 1:27-28
We are not animals. We are man. If God wanted us to not kill animals he wouldn't have asked for animal sacrifices in literally every book up until Matthew...
You're the ridiculous one. Why can't we extend our compassion for all beings? Maybe if we extended our compassion to all beings, we wouldn't be so hateful toward each other. Think about it, if we enable ourselves to harm the most innocent beings on the planet, what's to stop us from taking it a step further and harming each other?
Killing is killing, no matter what. There is not a humane way to kill a sentient being. Cow, chicken, pig, dog, human, whatever the species, there is NO humane way to kill a sentient being
Humans are a species of animal. The bible is not science, sorry to tell you but it's not. The bible is an extremely old text from a totally different time, which we do not live in anymore. If God were here today, would he want you to kill a cow (one of his many precious creatures) to eat or would he rather you ate a plant version that doesn't harm is creatures.
Animals do not need human rights to be respected. I don't know why you think that. They are still deserving of respect
Just because God did it doesn't justify us doing it as well. If you want to use that justification then we have to justify raping and killing because I'm pretty sure that was part of our past as well. So by your logic, we should be able to rape and kill as well
@0asis Forget it. Forget religion I'll go back to normal arguing.
I am NOT saying we shouldn't care for and "respect" animals. I'm just saying that we are not forbidden from killing them to eat. Because animals as a whole are not dying and we can kill them painlessly. And they are NOT the same as humans. How are they the same as humans?
And PLEASE DON'T SAY sentience. I am sick of that. Cows are not the same as humans just because they are sentient. Say something else. Please?
How can we care for and respect animals if we're also killing them? That doesn't make any sense. That is a contradiction. A bullet to the head isn't painless. 99% of the time, the animal is STILL ALIVE. I've seen it for myself. The animals are still alive after being shot and even after having their throat slit. There is NO humane way to kill any living sentient being.
Sentience isn't good enough? The fact they can FEEL PAIN isn't good enough? Why not? We are the same because we all have the same desire to live and survive. We all have thoughts and feelings. Though we as humans look different and we are more developed, scientifically, humans are a species of animal. Science is as close to the truth as you can get.
So just because it can feel pain there is no way to kill it without it feeling pain? No. What about drugging it to sleep? And then out of existence? Like they do to sick dogs at the vet? That's cruelty too I suppose?
We are supposed to are for animals as a whole. Individually no I am not in charge of protecting every cow on the planet. But I am supposed to make sure they aren't going extinct or being tortured. Which is why I don't like how factories do it.
Ill go to the farm and watch him kill some bulls. And make sure he does it in one blow. Okay? If he can't then Ill find someone who can and but my meat from them.
I dont wanna argue with you. And you clearly are much more informed in this area than I am. And I dont know how to convince you that humans are not just animals. Sorry. I dont know exactly why besides that Bible stuff. And that we are insanely more capasable brain wize and intelligence wize. And have a consciousness. But I can't prove it..
Yes. Cows are massive beasts. A bolt gun to the head doesn't kill them on the spot. They die slowly. There's no way that they can afford to drug every single animal too sleep. It's too expensive and the demand for meat is so high they don't have the time to do it.
Cruelty Definition: behavior that causes pain or suffering to a person or animal. So by that definition from the dictionary, a bolt gun to the head is animal cruelty. It's not cruelty if an animal is deathly ill. Sometimes, that's all you can do for a sick animal. But the cows and other farm animals are NOT sick when they get slaughtered. They are not deathly ill so it would be considered animal cruelty.
To feed the world meat in this time, it's impossible to do it without factory farms. The demand for meat is too high. And every time you buy meat from the grocery store, it's coming from factory farms so you're funding the factory farms.
Why not live in alignment with your morals? You say you care for animals but at the same time, you're paying for them to die. Isn't that hypocritical?
You can't convince me that humans aren't animals because science has proven that HUMANS are ANIMALS. Science.
The bible is a religious text, it is NOT science. It's all based on belief. No proof whatsoever to back up anything in it.
All sentient beings have consciousness. Even cows. And animals are intelligent in their own ways. Did you know that fish can map out the ENTIRE ocean? With their tiny brains, they can map out the whole ocean. Pigs, they're as intelligent as a 3 1/2 year old human. That may not seem like much to you but for another species, it's pretty incredible. Pigs can play video games. Pigs are smarter than dogs. Just because they can't talk or speak our language doesn't mean they aren't intelligent
@0asis FINE. I'll be vegetarian. Happy? I'll stop eating animals. And I'll just but milk from the guys farm that milks them normally and not cruelly. So I'm not paying for animal cruelty.
But if he has an animal that dies naturally or is gonna die naturally so he put it down and butchers it. Then I can eat that. Okay?
@0asis I don't LIKE plant milk. I got some almond milk yesterday and it tastes really watery. And chalky. It doesn't taste like milk and I don't like it.
I'm not buying from a factory I'm buying it from a normal farmer who milks them once a day and humanely. So why do you care if I buy his milk? I thought you just were against factory milk?
I'm against all forms of animal use and exploitation. I ate animal products for 22 years of my life so I'm not perfect. I didn't know about any of this but once I learned and saw from a perspective that wasn't mine, it didn't make sense to eat their bodies or anything from them.
If you think about it, you're still breastfeeding as you're drinking milk that comes from boobs. How bizarre is that? Adult humans are still breastfeeding and not only that but drinking the breast milk of another species. That's not normal
It is the same thing. You can deny it all you want but you're drinking breastmilk. Also, cow milk has a lot of puss and when they pasteurize the milk, it cooks the puss. So you're drinking breastmilk with cooked puss
@0asis I hate puss. It tastes like blech. Milk has acid it tastes remotely like puss. I hate puss. WHY does milk have to taste even a little bit like that? ? ? Why can't I just drink milk? I'm not hurting any cows by drinking milk! Can't I just have that? Why did you have to tell me that? I hate puss.
Yeah, it's disgusting. Because it comes from a cow that gets sores on its nipples from being milked a lot. Those sores eventually pop and that goes into the milk along with any blood from that sore. The industry allows a certain amount of puss in milk so they don't really care. If you drink plant milk instead, you don't ever have to worry about puss
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One more thing. Buy meat from only good sources where the animals are treated well and given proper food and they cause less wastage and stuff... Overall more efficient. If it's expensive then eat less meat but it's good for health and the environment. I also don't want to eat a lot of meat because of the unhealthy stuff the animals are fed and also the hormones that they are given.
ya but that doesn't change the fact we are slaving the animals... and they still end up dead in a slaughter house... for food
its so bad lol...
@TripleAce That's true, but at least they die living in a place where they're treated kindly instead of a place that doesn't even let them go outside and are kept in cages.
@Elaine_17 doesn't make it any better
If someone treated you nicely then stabbed you in the back to feed to their dogs
Would that make you be like. Oh cool what a nice person?
@TripleAce Well, eating meat because we need protein is a necessity though. We don't force other animals in the wild to eat old plants. We deserve to eat animal products as much as a meat eater in the wild needs meats to survive.
@Elaine_17 we can get all our protein from plant based foods... how do you think the animals get protein? lol
@TripleAce Well, tigers and lions don't exactly eat plants. So, "Where do you think animals get protein." From animals?
@Elaine_17 tigers and lions are pure carnivore.. savages, they can eat raw flesh... can we? lol... no
do we even have the tools to rip into raw flesh like that... no lol
can we only live off meat... nope
however, lets play into that for a second --> tigers don't have a moral conscious... tigers can't collectively come together and tell each other its bad to eat those animals... they just do whats instinct...
we humans have the intelligence to set up moral authority ,,,, we are smart enough to know that we can survive of plant based foods and hurting other animals is a unnecessary action
especially factory farming... thats pure slavery
@Elaine_17 we literally slave these animals,, rape them to pregnant them by sticking a hand in their anus... forcefully... then we constantly separate mothers and babies, throughout her whole life... we milk them dry... until they have no life left in them...
then when all that is done, we sent them to the slaughter house to get killed
ever see factory farming? you'd be shocked...
@TripleAce Well when you say if we have the tools, I assume we do since we have knifes and swords to do so. I mean we used to skin animals for their fur. I mean omnivores don't choose between only eating meat or only eating, and we're omnivores. We ARE intelligent beings, but we can't go against our own human design so easily. If we were to feed carnivores only plants, how do you think that would look? Would they still be the same strong beasts we know today? Would they survive eating only plants? Also, that's why we should be treating farm animals kindly despite the fact that we choose to include meat in our diets.
@Elaine_17 we aren't given natural tools... to eat meat... out intestines and teeth are just not designed to tear into meat the way a natural predator does...
yes we needed meat at one time to get enough calories and nutrients to develop our brains.. but today it doesn't seem like we actually need it anymore
im pretty sure we have tons of vegetarians that are healthy... in fact I'm sure they are more healthy even...
so the question is why not? taste... does it come own to taste and texture.. ya I get meat is tasty lol...
would you like it if someone saw your dog as dinner? cause in some countries they eat dog lol.
Stop arguing. I mentioned that it is better for our health and environment. The animals are not given any artificial stuff or hormones.
And treating the animals well is important.
just discussing lol.. not arguing 😛
but most countries just factory farm... its will probably never be done properly... the animals are going through immense suffering and pain their whole lives... breeding after breeding...
I eat meat too too don't worry lol.. im just understanding us better by hearing your opinions...
The issue with meat is that animals are fed with nasty stuff and hormones to make them fat quickly. I can tell which animals are injected and which are not since I saw many of them being butchered. The injected ones always have excess water retention, they move and behave like they are uncomfortable, have so much saliva coming out of their mouths plus they are constantly sick and have higher chances of dying early.
The ones raised by ordinary rural farmers grow up eating grass and other good natural stuff and you could tell that they are healthy, and they are also very calm, they don't attack people. There is very little, almost no fat in their meat.
I actually know a man who had severe liver problems and died very early. He tended to get meat from the injected animals.
Even then one can still wonder is it really necessary to kill the animals we grow to love... I dunno its a tuff one... when we don't have to..
but lets say we do, yes I agree with you there that its at least better to raise them how you described, the better way
--> but that would never happen because people will continue to factory farm... something just seems so wrong with that, creating new life repeatedly just to suffer...
@TripleAce yeah it's sad. That's why it's good to get meat from better sources and even eat less meat if that becomes expensive.
Why would I bother doing any of this? I love animals and all, and the way certain animals are killed is awful, but not everyone needs to cut meat out. I love meat, especially red meat, and it makes me happy. I don’t know if this was your intention or not, but this sounds like you’re trying to enforce veganism, or some forms of it, onto people who don’t want it.
Great take! I can't agree with bio-degradable carrier bags though. They take much longer to turn into compost than the time the plants have to create compost, because in the words of the manager "even the rain worms wouldn't touch those bags made of corn".
So here's the thing: I'm a meat eater because I don't believe it is wrong to eat meat. I don't believe that animals are entitled to any sort of rights.
Now, the environmental argument for eating less meat is more compelling, however you do realize that eating less meat will directly reduce the number of animals too right? It isn't like they'll all go free, we will cut down their numbers and cows will still exist solely for food or not at all.
Why is everyone so harsh about this? This is practically like an article informing others. You didn't have to click on this article. She's just informing us, not criticizing in any way. You can either make a decision to listen and take action to it, or you do not.
I wish I could use less animal products, but I can't bring myself to it. I've been raised (almost) in the country side, we had cows, rabbits, goats, sheep, pigs, we still have hens, we've had few more types of animals and I've always consumed such prodiucts. They're such a big part of my diet, that if I remove them, I start feeling ill, just the same as if I stop having sugar. Also I doubt the solutions you offer would help even a bit, unless it's a wordwide change. But stil - nice take.
The biodegradable thing is the only one i would be willing to do.
Now, answer me this
What do you propose to do, about overpopulation of deer or about the millions of feral pigs in the south who are an invasive speciee that are responisble for 8 BILLION DOLLARS of ecological damage a year.
Cause the only real answers tk either of those things involve bullets
I'm vegan, but I'm not unreasonable. I understand that hunting is sometimes necessary to protect an ecosystem, but over-breeding animals and putting them through terrible things is creating an even bigger problem.
Well not the answer i was expecting. You do seem reasonable
Every time a Vegtard post some "Don't eat meat" crap... I eat extra meat.
Stop trying to tell me what to do. If you want to eat grass, go ahead!
Stop trying to "educate" or "help". No one cares about your reasons.
Humans are NOT omnivores.
Trying to play the "I am not like those other veg'assholes" card.
You are making a post telling people to reduce their meat intake "for animal's sake"... You ARE exactly "One of those"
I'm so sorry that you're so full of darkness that you feel the need to do that, and to insult me. But it's alright, I forgive you.
I'm not telling you what to do my angel, I'm only here to offer easy suggestions that don't require you to quit eating all meat. Every little bit can help the planet and the animals, which is all that matters to me.
Peace and love you <3
media.giphy.com/media/Rhhr8D5mKSX7O/giphy.gif
This is why we need a purge,
Well, I personally only eat meat three times a week, since it can be unhealthy to eat it every other day. It helps when its from a local farmer I trust. there's also lots of meals where meat can be switched to fish.
Great take. I am vegetarian.
I know the fact that all the suffering and emotional pain which animal suffers , all that is gets absorbed by humans.
That’s why they’re so depressed all the time and have mental disorders.
Thanks for sharing.
What's stopping you from being completely plant-basedmor vegan? Just curious
or**
@0asis i guess only difference is animal diary right?
I do not drink milk that often
Vegetarians eat dairy and some eat eggs or both. Have you tried any dairy/milk alternatives? Like almond milk? There's tons of different options, kind of overwhelming but it's just about trying each one and seeing which one you like best. There's also dairy-free cheeses, yogurts, and ice creams.
Just think about this: Are there any other species that drink breast milk past infancy? Are there any other species that drink another species milk? Why are we, as adults still drinking breast milk... and why are we drinking another species breast milk? That milk isn't made for us, it's made for baby cows so they can grow into the massive gentle beasts they are. So by purchasing dairy products, you're taking away a baby's food. I can tell you're a compassionate person. I was vegetarian for a year and then I went vegan when I learn about how cruel the dairy and egg industries are.
@0asis thank you for generous advice. I will try to be vegan. 😊
If you would like, there's a free vegan challenge for 22 days. You get assigned a mentor and they help you with recipes, where to get certain foods, tailoring a diet for your lifestyle, and any questions you have. It's a great resource!
https://www.challenge22.com/challenge22/
@0asis thanks I will look into that
Out of curiosity, do you support in vitro meat? I mean no animals have to experience pain to get the meat, people who eat meat are satisfied, and it's more ecofriendly.
That's killing two birds with one stone. Also this:
*smashes two birds with a large rock*
You realize, of course, that if meat-eating is greatly reduced, all those cows won't just be set free to happily wander the hills. There are now only about 10% as many horses in the US as there were in 1900. The surplus was ground into glue and pet food...
This is not bad. I think non meat dishes are pretty good.
And I stop eating beef a long time ago.
That's so great!
Why go vegan? Cuz animals get killed every day so that we can eat? WELL I SAY FUCK THAT CUZ DEM PLANTS HAV LIFE TOO. If you treat hispanics and Asians differently you're a rasist, but if you treat dem animals differently from dem plants nothing happens! Except that you get a lot of shit from people, cuz you re probably a vegan or sth.
Ma point is, just open your mind, fellow eartherners.
Damn this was like a really passive take and everyone is like super triggered. I am not, nor do I plan on being vegan/vegetarian myself, but I find it strange people are so touchy about this...
I appreciate the respect in this post.
Though I don't necessarily agree with your views, I like your ideas. Some of those would be good to include in a personal diet. I love the Meatless Mondays idea. And I do enjoy non-dairy milk:)
www.theguardian.com/.../0,,-83446,00.html
All living things including plants have some form of consciousness and feel pain and distress. No matter what you put into your body some living thing in the world felt pain for you to eat that. There is zero way around it.
If you want to be a plant activist, you're best off being vegan anyway because it takes more plants to make a pound of meat or a steak than it does to be on a plant-based diet
It's been scientifically proven that plants are not sentient, meaning they do not have a brain or nervous system. They only react to stimuli. Venus flytraps for example, you can put a burning cigarette in its mouth and it will still close around the cigarette. Put that cigarette in an animal's mouth and they will spit it out and scream in pain.
I don't want to lose all the protein that I get by being a meat eater, but I understand the ethical reasons for veganism. A thing that I'm excited by is meat substitutes. A few of them are now real competitors to real meat in terms of flavor.
Protein comes from plants, not animals. You can get just as much protein on a vegan diet as you can eating meat, you can probably even get more. Beans and lentils and nuts are very high in protein and have 0 cholesterol (which clogs your arteries and can lead to heart disease and diabetes). If you want protein, you're best to go with a whole food plant-based diet as you're getting protein straight from the source. That's where every animal you eat gets their protein from.
Patrick Baboumian is a strongman and he's vegan: www.greatveganathletes.com/patrik-baboumian-vegan-strongman
Jehina Malik is a bodybuilder who has been vegan since birth: www.plantbuilt.com/.../
Good suggestions (and I'm a meat eater myself). We don't Need to eat meat daily.
How about no meat Fridays? We used to do that growing up as part of church.
Not gonna do that milk thing cause I love dairy. But no meat I could try. I could be vegetarian maybe. Mostly.
That's good too.
You can still have dairy that doesn't harm animals. There's tons of different alternatives; almond milk, soy milk, cashew milk, oat milk, hemp milk, rice milk, pea milk. There's also dairy-free cheeses, yogurts, and ice creams. So you don't ever have to stop having dairy
@0asis No I mean I like real milk. And dairy. From cows. My mom had goats once and I didn't even like goat milk. I don't think I'd like nut milk either.
You're missing the point. That "real millk" is made for baby cows. It's not made for us humans. By buying dairy products, you're taking away a baby's food. Trust me, there's more than nut milk and they're all delicious. There's oat milk, hemp milk, rice milk... tons of different kinds. And I guarantee you're bound to like one of them. Why do you think you wouldn't like it if you've never tried any kind of dairy alternative?
@0asis I'll try some. Okay? But I don't think I'll like them. I like cow milk. I can tell the difference.
And I don't think they are starving baby cows to sell milk... That would be animal cruelty. I'm pretty sure. My mom just weined the babies and then milked the goat after the baby didn't need it anymore. Nothing taken from either that they needed.
Yes, they taste different but the milk and dairy alternatives taste just as good and they're healthier for you.
Trust me, I've been researching this kind of stuff for months, and they do starve the baby cows to sell milk. What they do is they forcefully impregnate the cows. Within a few hours or days after birth, the baby cows are taken from their mothers. The babies don't get any of their mom's milk because we humans want it for ourselves. The baby boys are either killed in their first few days of life or kept alive, in tiny enclosures/cages until they can be killed for veal. The baby girls are forced into the same fate as their moms, being forcefully impregnated and constantly milked until they are so weak they can't go on, which is about 4 years max. Then they are taken to the slaughterhouse and killed for beef. Cows generally live up to 26 years but because they are giving birth and being milked so often, they age more rapidly and it really weakens their body
What you're talking about is a family farm. The way factory farms work (which is most likely where grocery stores get their animal products) is completely different as there is such a high demand for the products like milk and cheese, they don't have the time to ween the cows. They can't let the baby cows have their mother's milk because they would take it all and there wouldn't be enough to profit from. If you don't believe me, look into it yourself. I've seen hundreds of hours of raw footage of this happening in factory farms. They are very cruel places and don't care about the animals well-being
@0asis But they aren't starved. They just don't get milk. If they were starved all the beef would be really dry and tough and skinny.
So I'm not taking the baby's milk. I'm taking the mother's youth. That's different.
But hang on. How do they *forcefully impregnate* a cow? ? ?
And are you sure that's how all farm cows are milked? My mom didn't do goats that way. And my friend's dad didn't do his cows that way.
NOT saying taking the moms youth is good. Just so you know.
Does that really matter? They're still killed as babies. You're still taking lives. They need that milk. That's what cow milk is made for, baby cows. Not for us. We are stealing it from them and the babies are being deprived of the valuable nutrients and hormones they need. No, you're taking the milk that's made specifically for the baby from it. Cow milk isn't produced for you. You can call it what you want but a mammal produces milk for their babies. What about elephant milk or dog milk?
This is how they forcefully impregnate cows: https://youtu.be/Y43YAYHJ2Ng
Yes, I've seen hours and hours and hours of footage. I've seen how factory farms work. Just because small farms don't do it, doesn't mean every other farm does it that way.
Here's just one video about how factory farming works, see for yourself: https://youtu.be/6RNFFRGz1Qs
@0asis... Look. I see your point. I get that this stuff is bad. I definitely don't want that factory milking stuff going on. BUT.
Just because it's made for the calf and naturally the calf needs the milk to survive. Does not mean taking the milk away kills it. BEFORE YOU CORRECT ME AGAIN: look at human babies.
There are tons of babies who don't get the nutritients and stuff from their own mother's milk. Because she can't give it or the baby is allergic or she just doesn't want to breastfeed. Whatever the reason. And the baby gets substitute. And survives just fine.
If human babies can do it surely calves can survive on substitute milk perfectly healthily as well. I don't think that it is wrong to take the milk from the calves when they are kept alive using a substitute.
Now. About killing them as calves? Ya that sucks. That's mean. I wouldn't want to do that you're right. I hate killing baby animals. But...
@0asis... keep in mind they are just going to be killed once they grow up anyways. It's cutting a life of factory treatment short. If anything you should be happy they kill some of them young instead of them living through that. But yes I see your point.
The milking treatment.
Ya that sucks. And I don't like how they treat the animals. But those are animals...
Look there's a natural order to things. As far as the food chain we are on top. And it's balanced. Cows can show grass all they want and it's torture to the grass. Hay is grown only to be harvested and fed too cows. No one cares. Big deal.
Animals are higher up. You're right. They should not be tortured or mamed or abused. That's why we have laws against it. And I think those laws should keep this treatment (milking treatment of factories) from happening so harshly. I'll vote to change the law.
But Im gonna keep buying milk. Because I like it and they're gonna sell it anyways. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But theyre not human.
It indirectly kills the calf. My point is, if there are healthier, cruelty-free alternatives, then why are we causing so much pain and suffering to animals for taste pleasure?
The thing is, the boy calves are killed in their first few days of life because they are of no use to the dairy industry. Is that justifiable just for taste pleasure? We don't NEED to drink cow's milk and as as adults, we shouldn't be drinking breast milk at all, especially from another species. It doesn't matter about human babies. Would you drink dog milk? Take milk from puppies? My point is, that is not our milk and we have no right to take it.
Right now, you are justifying and defending animal cruelty. However you want to put it, isn't it still cruelty to animals? You seem like a compassionate person. We've all been taught that some lives are more valuable than others. For example, dogs. We would never harm them and if you saw someone kicking a dog, you would try to save the dog, right?
About killing them: The only reason these animals are in these horrible circumstances is because we as humans forcibly breed them into existence for our own taste pleasure. I would much prefer these animals never have to be put in these horrible situations in the first place.
You cannot justify by how an order works because nothing about the farming industry is natural or part of the natural circle of life. We are not on top of the food chain.
https://youtu.be/-truOzeWBR8
If you want to go there with the plants feel pain argument, you're best off being vegan/plant-based anyway because much, much less plants are harmed being a vegan than being an omnivore as the animals eat way more vegetation and it takes more plants to make meat than it does to just eat straight up plants.
No matter how well farm animals are treated, they still end up in a slaughterhouse and it's cruel no matter what.
Also, plants are not sentient; they do not have brains or nervous systems. It's been scientifically proven. So plants don't feel pain. They can react to stimuli but they don't have pain receptors. Like a venus flytrap, you can put a cigarette butt in its mouth and it will still close. Plants don't feel pain
@0asis Then how come my sister didn't damn die of starvation as a baby? I'm not entirely ignorant I know a little bit about milk. And it is replacable.
My sister is allergic to milk and she had to have formula for the first year of her life. And she is PERFECTLY FINE.
"Stealing" milk from a cow is no worse than "stealing" some honey from bees. They don't NEED it to survive. There are alternatives.
Before I discuss the morality of killing newborn calves. Which I AM against but not in the same way you are. What is your stand on killing human babies in their first few days of life just because they aren't of use or are a hassle to the mother?
No we don't need to drink milk. You're right. I know. We don't need to wear clothes either. And that takes wool from sheep. We don't need oil. Getting oil takes away habitat from animals some.
We dont NEED lots of things. But that doesn't make it WRONG to have them.
It's "stealing" yes. But we are humans. And they are animals. Its not the same.
...
@0asis... How they treat them is cruel. Yes. I agree. But milking cows and butchering them isn't cruel as long as it's done humanely. And they aren't doing it humanely. And that's why I'm against it.
I said I'd change the law if I could. To include stuff you can't do to dogs to cows. They're both animals after all. I do not want that stuff to happen. But just milking them humanely is not cruel. And I have no problem with that.
Yes I've been taught human lives are more important than animal lives. I loved our pets growing up. But our parents told us if the house caught on fire leave the dog to burn. We need to get to safety before worrying about the dog's life. Because otherwise we put ours at risk.
Don't chase the dog across the road.
Don't chase the dog into the woods at night.
Don't approach a man being mean to a dog if it is night or they are armed.
Now I'm older and if I saw someone beating a dog up I would approach and tell them to stop. Yes. But I wouldn't put myself at risk.
Plants do feel pain. But I don't care. Because they're damn plants. Nobody cares.
Animals feel pain. And I do care. Because they're animals. But they are animals. As long as they are treated humanely and killed quickly I don't see a problem. As long as they aren't going extinct because of it.
Humans feel pain. And I do care. And I think the rest is self explanatory.
I understand what you're saying but that doesn't justify drinking cow's milk. We don't need cow's milk to survive so we're causing cruelty to animals for no good reason. It's completely unnecessary and not moral in any way. Sure, the baby cows will be able to survive without it but that doesn't give us the right to take it from them.
I think every being on earth has the right to live, no matter what species they are, they all have the right to a life and we as humans have no right to take the life of another being, unless in a survival situation but we are not in a survival situation so we should live and let live.
Most clothes are made from cotton which is a plant. And we can make fabric and clothing from synthetic materials. And if you want to get into taking the habitats from some animals, the farming industry is the leading cause of amazon deforestation. So going vegan is the best way to decrease your impact on that
Just because they're a different species than us doesn't give us the right to do with them what we want. They are sentient; they can feel pain, they feel happiness, sadness, they have brains and nervous systems. They have the right to life just as much as we do. They are innocent and have done nothing wrong so why are we treating them worse than rapists, murderers, and child molesters?
@0asis Animals don't have human rights! They don't have the right to property even if it's their body. We are predators naturally. And I will obstain from as much meat as I can through my religion to help. But not because I think we shouldn't kill any animals. Because of my religion. And because I think they should be killed humanely.
I see what you are saying as well. But honestly I can't agree with that. We have just as much right to eat beef as a wolf does. But we are held to a higher morality to kill them humanely because we are humans. That's the difference.
Overkilling and abusive killing I don't like. And I will oppose. But just killing for some food? No I am okay with that. I'll oppose it some from religion. And some because I do respect your opinion and I'll help you out if I can. But I'm not going vegetarian because I think cows have the right to life. That's never true. It's a cow. It doesn't have rights.
Thats why there are animal cruelty laws. And I am in favor of that.
THEY ARE NOT HUMAN. That's why I disagree with you.
THEY ARE ANIMALS. We are humans. Humans have rights. Animals should be cared for by us and treated humanely. But not because of them. Because that's our responsibility. And killing them to eat is okay. As long as it is within reason and we aren't blotting out the species. That's what I think.
Chinese people eat dogs too. I am okay with that-- as long as it's not MY dog. Because I'm taking care of my dog specifically and not the the species in general. But ya.
It's been scientifically proven that plants DO NOT feel pain. They do not have a nervous system or a brain, therefor cannot feel pain. Animals do not have human rights, that's true but that still does not justify us doing whatever we want to them. Every being has a right to their own body. It's not your body so you do not have the right to do whatever you please to it.
I only have 1000 characters so I will direct you to these videos to address your point about us being natural predators: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJtSoZPgaz0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmXynDLkbXY
As for your wolf argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyQyI280YEo
Your logic is not valid as we are overkilling tons of different species every single day for "food". So you're going against your own morals by eating animal products. For example, the egg industry kills over 500K male baby chicks in macerators (ground up alive) or suffocated as they are no use to the industry.
The animal cruelty laws don't help the animals in factory farms at all. They don't do anything. And why don't cows have rights but dogs do? Every animal has the right to live and we as humans have absolutely no right to take their life from them. Why do we value some animals lives over others? They're all animals and should all be treated with kindness and equality. We don't need to eat their bodies.
Killing them to eat is not okay as we have tons of alternatives that are way healthier and more sustainable. I could understand eating animals for survival but we have meat, dairy, and egg alternatives that taste just as good, if not better so it's completely unnecessary to keep funding the cruelty of these animals for our own taste pleasure
@0asis Animals are higher up. You're right. They should not be tortured or mamed or abused. That's why we have laws against it. And I think those laws should keep this treatment (milking treatment of factories) from happening so harshly. I'll vote to change the law.
How they treat them is cruel. Yes. I agree. But milking cows and butchering them isn't cruel as long as it's done humanely. And they aren't doing it humanely. And that's why I'm against it.
I said I'd change the law if I could. To include stuff you can't do to dogs to cows. They're both animals after all. I do not want that stuff to happen. But just milking them humanely is not cruel. And I have no problem with that.
Overkilling and abusive killing I don't like. And I will oppose. But just killing for some food? No I am okay with that. I'll oppose it some from religion. And some because I do respect your opinion and I'll help you out if I can. But I'm not going vegetarian because I think cows have the right to life.
...
@0asis... Animals should be cared for by us and treated humanely. But not because of them. Because that's our responsibility. And killing them to eat is okay. As long as it is within reason and we aren't blotting out the species. That's what I think.
THIS IS ALL WHAT I HAVE ALREADY SAID. ^^
I already said I'm against abusive treatment and overkilling. And I think dogs and cows should be treated equally humanely. And I'll vote to change the animal cruelty laws to apply to farms and factories as well. Okay? I ALREADY SAID THAT.
Just killing them isn't wrong as long as it's done humanely and within reason. I will not change my mind in that. No matter how cruely they are treated before killed-- which is wrong. That doesn't mean treating them humanely before killed is wrong too. Because it's not. They are animals. We can eat them if we want. As long as it's not cruel or to extinction.
How about we just don't harm animals or use animals at all?
The definition of "humane" means having or showing compassion. How do you kill a sentient being compassionately?
In factory farms, cows are milked numerous times every single day, it's not good for the animal to be milked that much and it harms them, just by milking them.
Your logic makes no sense because in order to eat animals, they are being overkilled by the millions. You cannot avoid overkilling if you eat animals. It's not possible in today's world.
You may not think cows have the right to life but they do. They deserve the right to life like cats and dogs and every other animal out there. Animals are NOT here for us to use and exploit. By eating animals, you're causing massive destruction to the rainforests, which in turn displaces countless animals that live there and you're funding animal cruelty. The only real way to avoid animal abuse and not contribute to it is to be vegan/plant-based
Laws aren't going to do anything. Changing laws will not help the animals. The animal agriculture industry is supply & demand. We as consumers control it. Where we put our money is what matters. If we buy chicken or bacon, they will continue to harm and torture animals. If we buy meat alternatives instead, the demand for animal products will go down. You can choose to be ignorant and close-minded but you're paying for animal cruelty.
@0asis WHEN did I say dogs have any more rights than cows? ? ? I am OKAY with other people eating dogs and cats. Like in China they do that. I'm fine with that. They are ANIMALS.
I was saying humane to mean. Like. Humane? I don't know. Painless as possible I guess.
How does eating ANIMALS cause destruction of FORESTS? ? ? and if you want to keep all animals from suffering. You have to do DAMN more than just not EATING them. You'd have to stop doing ANYTHING that at all could harm animals or their habitats. Cut buying any form of wood or furs. That kills animals and tears down their habitat. No taking any food that animals eat. Because that's THEIR food and we can't steal it. That cuts out almost EVERY FOOD. We'd have to grow our own. And even then if an animal goes to eat our food we can't stop them because they need it to survive. If we take it once they have it its stealing and they'll starve to death.
THAT is NOT a road I want to go down. You can. Im not. They don't own property.
@0asis NO I AM DAMN NOT!!!
If you don't think those laws do any good then I guess you wouldn't give a damn if all animal cruelty laws were erased? Hum? NO. You would care. Because they do crap. And they'd do it for cows too.
But they won't keep people from killing cows. Just from doing it cruelly. And from treating them like they do now in factories. They can still milk and butcher them. But not like that.
Just because they are of a different species doesn't justify killing and eating them. That logic doesn't make any sense.
Name a way you can humanely (compassionately) kill a sentient being. Name some ways.
Eating animals destroys rainforests because what they feed to farm animals is mainly soybean and corn and in order to grow enough of it to feed over 56 BILLION farm animals, they are cutting down the rainforests in order to grow food for livestock on factory farms. That's how. So by eating meat, you're also contributing to rainforest destruction, which as I said, also displaces tons of other animals and is causing species endangerment and even species extinction.
Being vegan is NOT about being perfect because that's impossible to not step on a bug or cause some impact; being vegan is about causing the least amount of impact as possible. It's about choosing more ethical options. Just because we cause an impact does NOT mean we should make the biggest impact possible, you know?
I do not purchase any fur or products made from animals. Most clothes are made from COTTON which comes from a plant. COTTON is a PLANT. And there's synthetic materials like polyurethane which can make FAKE leather. You know what tears down animal's habitat the most? EATING MEAT. Like I said, the rainforest is being cut down in order to be able to make enough soybean crops to feed to livestock. So you're best off being vegan if you don't want to destroy animal's habitats.
What are you even talking about taking animal's food? If the entire human race was vegan/plant-based, we would have MORE than enough food for us and animals. If we were all vegan, we would have enough food to feed 800 million people. Most of the plants get fed to livestock so if we stopped eating animals we would have enough food for everyone and everything.
@0asis So I'll buy milk from my friend's dad's farm. Where he's nice to the cows (until he butchers them). And I'll buy meat from him too. There. Less impact. No cruelty. Happy?
They are not just a different species than us. We are HUMAN. We have humanity. We are NOT ANIMALS! We have rights because WE ARE HUMAN. That's the difference. That's a HUGE difference.
And I meant "humane" as in painless. Not compassionate.
By that logic "Animals don't own property", human babies and children don't own property either do then we should eat our own children then too.
You are paying for animal cruelty. Look where your money goes. It goes to slaughterhouses and factory farms where they torture and abuse animals and then kill them. That is animal cruelty and you're paying for it.
What? That makes no sense. I say they don't do anything because the factory farms don't usually abide by those laws. Free-range chickens for example, they are all crowded by the thousands into a bigger building and they get a little hole in the wall and that's free-range according to the RSPCA. I've looked this stuff up, I've seen it. I know it for a fact. The laws don't protect the animals at all. They still get neglected, abused and tortured until the day they get their neck slit. Laws don't do anything.
Name a way that isn't cruelly killing a sentient being that wants to live? How do you kill a sentient being in a kind way?
@0asis WAIT-- WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! ?
If there is enough plants for everyone-- WHY DOES MAKING PLANTS INTO ANIMAL FOOD TEAR DOWN THEIR HABITAT? ! ?
There's enough food for everyone then don't complain about using food for animals to fatten them up!
@0asis A bullet to the base of the skull? BOOM-- dead. No pain. No cruelty. Just bang dead. They don't even know what hit them. That's as kind a death you're gonna get.
And HUMAN life is soooo FUCKING different from animal life!!! Don't even JOKE about that!
HOW can you even compare a HUMAN child to a fucking animal! ? ! ?
What are you talking about? It's because there are 56 BILLION farm animals on the planet and it takes an insane amount of plants to feed each individual one. Do you know how much a cow eats? Plus the cows are being milked constantly so they need to eat more food than normal to be able to produce milk. So people are tearing down rainforests to make soybean crops to feed to cows and all other farm animals. There's tons of animals that live in the rainforest and their habitat is being destroyed so you can have a burger or a few pieces of bacon. That's why.
The thing is, there is enough but it's all going to livestock. It's not going to humans. It's all going to livestock so we currently aren't able to feed everyone. So if we instead were all plant-based, we would have more than enough if we weren't giving it to livestock
That doesn't kill them. I've seen it with my own eyes, the animals are still alive as they get their throat slit even after being bolt gunned in the head.
Cows are massive, a bolt gun doesn't kill them automatically. They are still alive even when being hung up on the conveyor after having been shot and had their neck slit. It's still cruel
Why are you being so rude and aggressive and uttering death threats? People think vegans are the aggressive, extreme ones. Look in the mirror.
We look different but humans and animals are both sentient beings. We both feel pain and sadness, happiness, we are all here on this earth together. We are no better than they are, if anything the human race is so much worse. We treat the most innocent beings on the planet worse than we treat rapists, murderers, and serial killers. Why?
@0asis Then elect a damn COW president.
I'm sorry. I was trying to be nice before. But I can't when you start to say humans and animals are equals.
I'm not agressive trust me. But I'm gonna be if you say stuff like that. I'm not and no human is the same as animals. There's a distinct difference. Don't try to argue with me about that. Because I will probably get mad if you call all of humanity the same as cows.
You are being quite aggressive. You are uttering death threats. All I'm doing is being compassionate and trying to save animals in any way I can.
I'm not saying cows ARE humans, I'm saying we are all creatures of this planet and to respect every being whether they have feathers or hooves or paws. We are all sentient beings. Sentient = ability to perceive or feel things. I'm saying it because every animal is SENTIENT. They ALL have BRAINS & NERVOUS SYSTEMS, like us. They feel pain, they have feelings, emotions, thoughts, just like us. No, they are not the same but they are sentient just like us. We have SIMILARITIES. Doesn't mean we are the EXACT SAME. Let the animals live their lives the way they want. We have alternative food options so it's completely unnecessary to eat and exploit animals when we have other, healthier, more ethical options.
Technically, we are mammals. We are a different species but that doesn't give us the right to treat others differently based on how they look.
An article to refute your whack logic claims: io9.gizmodo.com/yes-humans-are-animals-so-just-get-over-yourselves-1588990060
@0asis When did I make death threats? If I did I doubt I meant to. I don't remember making any death threats...
No. We aren't animals. We aren't held to the same standards as animals. And we aren't treated the same way as animals. And we are not given the same rights as animals. It's not whack logic it's truth.
I know animals and humans are both sentient. But that doesn't mean we are equals.
Okay maybe I should've said this sooner. But I was raised Catholic. So I believe in the Creation or the Earth. And that means I DON'T believe we are the same as animals. We are charged with caring for them so they don't go extinct. But we have authority over them. Because they are animals. Not humans.
Surely you aren't saying animals should have human rights and be treated the same as humans.. right?
To quote you: "A bullet to the base of the skull? BOOM-- dead. No pain. No cruelty. Just bang dead. They don't even know what hit them. That's as kind a death you're gonna get." That is a death threat
We are animals. It's scientifically proven we are animals. We are mammals. We are a species of animals. A very highly developed species, but animals none the less.
www.newstatesman.com/.../why-humans-need-rethink-their-place-animal-kingdom
www.chronicle.com/.../32709
According to science, we are and science is as close to fact as you can get
That is your belief but that doesn't mean it's the truth. One of the amendments in the bible is "thou shall not kill", right? But by purchasing animal products, you're paying for animals to die. Think about this: if a man payed for someone to be killed, is he as guilty as the killer? Or is he innocent?
Science says we are all animals, we are just a different species. If god wanted us to eat his creatures, why would he give them the ability to feel pain? Why would he give them sentience? In the bible, does it say you HAVE to eat animals? Also, the animals are god's creatures. Would he want you to kill them and eat their bodies or would he rather you protected them and took care of all of them?
Okay so I read that sentence I quoted again and realized I was wrong. Sorry, I have dyslexia. I read things wrong A LOT.
@0asis "Thou shalt not murder." Exodus 20:6
Murder. And it's talking to humans. About humans. In the same book it gives instructions on how to kill animals for sacrifices. Don't quote to me out of context. I may not be practicing that religion very well but I have most of it memorized.
YOU ASKED ME "how would you kill it humanely?" I just answered YOUR QUESTION! Don't call that a death threats all I did was tell you how to kill something. I never threatened to do it! Gees that's not even close to a death threat!
Science says we have lots in common with animals. Yay. We are similar. But we are HUMANS.
TELL ME you would treat a cow like a human. PLEASE tell me you would treat it with just as much respect and ask it's name. Shake it's hoof. Offer it food and a bed inside out of the rain? Be mad that it doesn't have the right to vote and people don't let a person marry a cow? Would you? Because if you really thought we were just animals you should have NO problem with that.
Okay that's fine. I do that too.
I highly doubt it's just about humans. It doesn't say "thou shalt not kill HUMANS" it simply says "Thou shalt not kill". You can put it into different context but I'm pretty sure God would prefer you didn't kill his precious creatures.
Shooting a sentient being in the head is a compassionate killing? So by your logic, if someone shot another person in the head that would be humane and wouldn't classify as murder then. Because you can't say it's murder for one sentient being but not another and the murderer can say "Judge, I shot them in the head, they felt no pain, therefore it is justified". That logic doesn't work.
We are still a SPECIES of ANIMALS. We are not cows or giraffes or elephants but we are still a SPECIES OF ANIMALS called HUMANS.
I would treat a cow with the same respect as a human being, yes. Because every being deserves to be treated how I would like to be treated. "Treat beings the way you want to be treated" golden rule of life.
You don't have to go to those lengths to respect animals. Just letting them live the life they one and not killing them, eating them, and exploiting them for their bodies is enough. You're being ridiculous.
@0asis YOU are being rediculous!!! It's a COW!
Being sentient is not the difference! Being a damn human makes the difference! If I kill a human humanely it's murder. If I kill an animal humanely it's killing an animal humanely.
Humans have human rights. Cows DON'T! Because they're aren't HUMAN!
You want the difference defined?
"So God made man in his own image. In the image of God He created him. Male and female He created them. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number. Fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.""
Genisis 1:27-28
We are not animals. We are man. If God wanted us to not kill animals he wouldn't have asked for animal sacrifices in literally every book up until Matthew...
You're the ridiculous one. Why can't we extend our compassion for all beings? Maybe if we extended our compassion to all beings, we wouldn't be so hateful toward each other. Think about it, if we enable ourselves to harm the most innocent beings on the planet, what's to stop us from taking it a step further and harming each other?
Killing is killing, no matter what. There is not a humane way to kill a sentient being. Cow, chicken, pig, dog, human, whatever the species, there is NO humane way to kill a sentient being
Humans are a species of animal. The bible is not science, sorry to tell you but it's not. The bible is an extremely old text from a totally different time, which we do not live in anymore. If God were here today, would he want you to kill a cow (one of his many precious creatures) to eat or would he rather you ate a plant version that doesn't harm is creatures.
Animals do not need human rights to be respected. I don't know why you think that. They are still deserving of respect
Just because God did it doesn't justify us doing it as well. If you want to use that justification then we have to justify raping and killing because I'm pretty sure that was part of our past as well. So by your logic, we should be able to rape and kill as well
@0asis Forget it. Forget religion I'll go back to normal arguing.
I am NOT saying we shouldn't care for and "respect" animals. I'm just saying that we are not forbidden from killing them to eat. Because animals as a whole are not dying and we can kill them painlessly. And they are NOT the same as humans. How are they the same as humans?
And PLEASE DON'T SAY sentience. I am sick of that. Cows are not the same as humans just because they are sentient. Say something else. Please?
How can we care for and respect animals if we're also killing them? That doesn't make any sense. That is a contradiction. A bullet to the head isn't painless. 99% of the time, the animal is STILL ALIVE. I've seen it for myself. The animals are still alive after being shot and even after having their throat slit. There is NO humane way to kill any living sentient being.
Sentience isn't good enough? The fact they can FEEL PAIN isn't good enough? Why not? We are the same because we all have the same desire to live and survive. We all have thoughts and feelings. Though we as humans look different and we are more developed, scientifically, humans are a species of animal. Science is as close to the truth as you can get.
A bit of proof: https://australianmuseum.net.au/humans-are-mammals
@0asis Ugh I KNOW thats not true.
So just because it can feel pain there is no way to kill it without it feeling pain? No. What about drugging it to sleep? And then out of existence? Like they do to sick dogs at the vet? That's cruelty too I suppose?
We are supposed to are for animals as a whole. Individually no I am not in charge of protecting every cow on the planet. But I am supposed to make sure they aren't going extinct or being tortured. Which is why I don't like how factories do it.
Ill go to the farm and watch him kill some bulls. And make sure he does it in one blow. Okay? If he can't then Ill find someone who can and but my meat from them.
I dont wanna argue with you. And you clearly are much more informed in this area than I am. And I dont know how to convince you that humans are not just animals. Sorry. I dont know exactly why besides that Bible stuff. And that we are insanely more capasable brain wize and intelligence wize. And have a consciousness. But I can't prove it..
Yes. Cows are massive beasts. A bolt gun to the head doesn't kill them on the spot. They die slowly. There's no way that they can afford to drug every single animal too sleep. It's too expensive and the demand for meat is so high they don't have the time to do it.
Cruelty Definition: behavior that causes pain or suffering to a person or animal. So by that definition from the dictionary, a bolt gun to the head is animal cruelty. It's not cruelty if an animal is deathly ill. Sometimes, that's all you can do for a sick animal. But the cows and other farm animals are NOT sick when they get slaughtered. They are not deathly ill so it would be considered animal cruelty.
To feed the world meat in this time, it's impossible to do it without factory farms. The demand for meat is too high. And every time you buy meat from the grocery store, it's coming from factory farms so you're funding the factory farms.
Why not live in alignment with your morals? You say you care for animals but at the same time, you're paying for them to die. Isn't that hypocritical?
You can't convince me that humans aren't animals because science has proven that HUMANS are ANIMALS. Science.
The bible is a religious text, it is NOT science. It's all based on belief. No proof whatsoever to back up anything in it.
All sentient beings have consciousness. Even cows. And animals are intelligent in their own ways. Did you know that fish can map out the ENTIRE ocean? With their tiny brains, they can map out the whole ocean. Pigs, they're as intelligent as a 3 1/2 year old human. That may not seem like much to you but for another species, it's pretty incredible. Pigs can play video games. Pigs are smarter than dogs. Just because they can't talk or speak our language doesn't mean they aren't intelligent
@0asis FINE. I'll be vegetarian. Happy? I'll stop eating animals. And I'll just but milk from the guys farm that milks them normally and not cruelly. So I'm not paying for animal cruelty.
But if he has an animal that dies naturally or is gonna die naturally so he put it down and butchers it. Then I can eat that. Okay?
Why are you so against plant milks? They taste amazing!
@0asis I don't LIKE plant milk. I got some almond milk yesterday and it tastes really watery. And chalky. It doesn't taste like milk and I don't like it.
I'm not buying from a factory I'm buying it from a normal farmer who milks them once a day and humanely. So why do you care if I buy his milk? I thought you just were against factory milk?
I'm against all forms of animal use and exploitation. I ate animal products for 22 years of my life so I'm not perfect. I didn't know about any of this but once I learned and saw from a perspective that wasn't mine, it didn't make sense to eat their bodies or anything from them.
If you think about it, you're still breastfeeding as you're drinking milk that comes from boobs. How bizarre is that? Adult humans are still breastfeeding and not only that but drinking the breast milk of another species. That's not normal
@0asis Ew stop doing that. I'm trying to keep liking milk. You're not helping.
It's true. Cow milk comes from a boob. You're literally breastfeeding
@0asis No I'm not. It's pasturized and stuff. It's not like I'm actually.. yuck. No.
Doesn't matter. Still comes from a boob.
@0asis But I'm not touching the boob. Especially not with my damn mouth. So it's not the same as breastfeeding.
Doesn't matter. It's still breastfeeding, technically because it comes from a boob.
@0asis Well I'm not gonna call it that. Cause that's gross. And it's not the same thing.
Great now I'm not even hungry anymore..
It is the same thing. You can deny it all you want but you're drinking breastmilk. Also, cow milk has a lot of puss and when they pasteurize the milk, it cooks the puss. So you're drinking breastmilk with cooked puss
@0asis Crap why did you have to say that? ?
I literally just threw up. Will you stop making it so gross please? ?
I'm not making it gross. It's the 100% truth. It is gross. Plant milk has 0 puss and doesn't come from a boob
@0asis I hate puss. It tastes like blech. Milk has acid it tastes remotely like puss. I hate puss. WHY does milk have to taste even a little bit like that? ? ? Why can't I just drink milk? I'm not hurting any cows by drinking milk! Can't I just have that? Why did you have to tell me that? I hate puss.
Yeah, it's disgusting. Because it comes from a cow that gets sores on its nipples from being milked a lot. Those sores eventually pop and that goes into the milk along with any blood from that sore. The industry allows a certain amount of puss in milk so they don't really care. If you drink plant milk instead, you don't ever have to worry about puss
@0asis So I'll get it from that farm that doesn't overmilk them!!
Ack blood and puss. That's just great.. I think I'm gonna be sick again.
Well, best switch over to plant milk. It's the best option in this case!
@0asis But there's not.. any sores or stuff on not overmilked cows! So it's not even bad to drink it!
There is. It's from the milking machines. It makes their skin all raw and irritated and sore. I've seen it so many times
@0asis Ughhh...