Feminism, MGTOW, and What I Learned Playing Devils Advocate in MyTake

[Apope16]

For the past year or so I have engaged in a type of "clickbait" social experiment of users in the GAG community. The idea was to put forward an outlandish or controversial opinion from both sides of the societal perspective and see how people reacted. What I learned was quite surprising.

Consider the MyTakes:

The Stupidity of the MGTOW Movement!

Why MGTOW Is So Popular Among Men

I am woman! I am the prize!

Redefining our manhood and the defeat of Patriarchy

Remember Gentlemen, YOU are the prize

Why All Women Are Manipulative Liars

Everybody Hates You

If I wrote something defending Women's Rights everyone would attack me as being a "beta male feminist". If I wrote something critical of women, everyone would attack me for being "a male misogynist".

Absolutism

People are more concerned about being right than exposing the true nature of their feelings. People wont' answer the merits of a question but will say "That's not true of all people".

MGTOW Anti-Feminist Men

Anti Feminist men have strong and very real opinions. The majority of men on GAG are right wing, neo-Libertarian types who have a strong MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) orient.

Women Have Little Courage

Even in MyTakes that advocate for Feminism, women are reluctant to take on GAG Men in defending and promoting Feminism.

Men are Tired of Dating Women

56% of men believe that single mothers are damaged goods and are not worth dating. Many male users express frustration about women using dating apps for attention and games--not real love.

[cth96190]

The deck is so stacked against men, especially legally, that there is no reasonable prospect of an engagement with a woman that does not end in legal and financial catastrophy for the man.
In some jurisdictions, such as Britain, simply approaching a woman can result in a life-ending conviction and prison time for an Orwellian thought crime.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jul/13/nottinghamshire-police-count-wolf-whistling-hate-crime
https://www.BBC.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-50137960
Because the system is so biased against men, the only defence that men have is to not engage. Do not approach. No dating. No sex. No relationships. No marriage. No children. Do not even speak to women.
When you see a woman in distress, keep on walking. There have been cases in which rendering assistance resulted in a false rape allegation.
https://brasspills.com/good-samaritan-spends-two-weeks-in-prison-after-being-falsely-accused-of-rape-by-woman-he-helped/
Keep on walking.
Women, fish, bicycles and all that.

[Apope16]

True. Thanks for your reply!

[normalice]

You write two extreeme viewpoints that you openly admit are clickbait/trolling and then call it absolutism when other people point out that your views are extreme? That's called projecting. It's clear you think yourself cleverly impartial for doing this, but your bias is pretty clear in all of your posts..

[Apope16]

Whats my bias?

[normalice]

Your pretense at feminism was the over-the-top fiction most far right wingers openly assume, while your "criticism" of mgtow seemed almost improvisational, like someone struggling to criticise themselves without actually doing any lasting damage to their belief structure.

Of course, to be fair, that could be because so little mainstream criticism of mgtow exists (since no one pays attention to it), but even if that's the case it's still a bias - just not yoir bias, but rather a bias in the environment in which you operate that you have, naturally, adapted to.

[Apope16]

What is funny about MGTOW is everyone has their own opinion of it. The slightest bit of criticism of its basic premise is argued by supporters to be just a misunderstanding because critics of MGTOW simply "Just dont get it" they "misrepresent" what it really is. And yet these same people all have different ideas of what it truly is to the point that it is void of any meaning. The reality is MGTOW is whatever a guy wants in order to fit the sceneario of an argument. One is either purple pill or red pill. Yet the purple pump and dump MGTOW people are called not truly MGTOW by the red pill guys who completely reject all women. And yet the very phrase men going their own way implies men doing whatever they want. which means that I could be a feminist who loves and dates women and still be mgtow... yet the mgtow folks would say that it isn't really mgtow. haha

[coffeewithcream]

Normalice owned you.
You can laugh it off but what you did was trolling. A bit more sophisticated than most, but you're a troll.

[Ámayas_20]

The only issue I have with this is the 'Women have little courage' as you seem to be implying that if women aren't feminists (Which is NOT the same as not supporting gender equality) That they're somehow weak. If I'm wrong here please do correct me but as a woman who is a huge supporter of equality, I despise modern feminism, this doesn't mean I won't speak up about women's rights or men's rights when I feel it's needed.

[Grond21]

You make a good point

[Apope16]

Not all women are feminist. I get that. But I am implying that women are chickenshit when responding to men on this site and defending the cause of feminism. Look at the responses here. YOu are the first female response. There is 15 male responses here and most of them are misogynistic and attacking ME for defending WOMEN. Where are the women? Where are they? They are too chicken to fight on the battlefield here online against misogynistic assholes that you see below. Reading the comments in this thread below. Women should be responding as a full army to some of these dudes. Instead its just me. Where are the women fighting the good debate here on this mytake? Where are the ladies?

[Ámayas_20]

@Apope16 You make a very big mistake here, women have no obligation to respond to such sexism as for one it pretends that it's valid when it isn't, secondly is quite sexist to believe women are so insecure that we feel the need to respond to such comments but don't out of what fear?

Most women on this have responded to many sexist guys and know they aren't willing to talk, their points are ridiculous, and such discussions only give them the illusion that what they're saying matters or has value. Sometimes the power move is actually to say nothing at all, to ignore these men let them fester to themselves because these opinions aren't that widly held disscussing them everytime someone comes out with one simply gives the idea that what they're saying has weight when it doesn't

[PeterAyre]

Good point 👍 Tbh I think many feminists see themselves above msygonistic men They don't fight people that don't listen and don't make a difference. It's a fight that is hard to win and you don't gain anything for the winning. Have you? Do you think pro fighters should fight with anybody who insults their game? Lest they be chickenshit. Not worth it.

[glenns]

No, feminists aren't booting up because entering the octagon to do battle isn't their strength. This is why most lawyers are men, and why most politicians are men. There are exceptions (AOC is a good one; Hillary Rodham wasn't to bad), but the logic to engage those with incorrect viewpoints, as well as the take-no-prisoners mindset is just something most feminists don't have. That is the real reason why they aren't here defending your listless, silly cause. It has nothing to do with the absurd idea that "They are above it all", which is nonsense. If it weren't, then please explain feminist bitch sessions. Pray tell, how are feminist bitch sessions more intellectually valuable than the well-reasoned argument of the red-piller? I dare say how are they even close? They're not. Your gals' aren't here because they know their strengths and they know their weaknesses.

[PeterAyre]

My listless silly cause? I am for gender equality. Perhaps I could have been more clear on that. I don't like 'feminist bitch sessions' that is sexist.

[PeterAyre]

I don't know why people do why they do. I can only make suggestions.

[Ámayas_20]

@glenns Dude, can you read? I said I don't support feminism and most women don't either only 1 third of women identify as feminists. The reason women don't engage with such comments is as I already said above it's pointless if you want to full answer go reread it.

[victoriaxoxo]

The way I see it is that there is very little point in responding/getting triggered by comments online. I would rather focus on my career, my money and spend my time proving sexist men wrong IRL. Also I somewhat think that what people say in the heat of the moment might not always reflect what they think all the time...

[MasRus]

i think ya mistaken bout being cowards.

more we got more common sense than to argue with bullhead misogynistic angry men.

because usually they make no sense and sound dumb so best to ignore them.

cuz like the saying goes arguing with a fool doubles the amount of fools.🤷🏽‍♀️

[ManHater]

Sounds like this little girl who's 19 has it all figured out.

[OpenWine]

just passing by to balance the votes.

[Apope16]

There are 6 female responses and 33 male responses. In this set of responses there are men who are outright disrespecting the value of women... and yet only 6... have replied in the comments. No women will stand up and reply to these guys below?

[MasRus]

@Apope16 why should we. they sound stupid.

so why reply to dumbass statements🤷🏽‍♀️

just for the sake of argument.

I'm not concerned what people especially dumb ignorant people think of women as a whole.

[Mellontikos]

Fool checking in

[Mellontikos]

Cuck

[EnglundUberAlles]

@Mellontikos Did you say your wife is available?

[The_Sword]

I think your social experiment might suffer from a tinge of confirmation bias within the hidden influence of your methodology: the idea that you can 'test' people, or a whole community, and tender objective judgements about them... Most people with genuine opinions, won't waste their energy on rehashed arguments that have an atmosphere of scripted toxicity... the arguments leveraged by critical theory and conflict theory are so poisonous, that most sane people wish to limit their exposure to having to engage with their tactics of sweeping generalisations, and 'fighting fire with fire', as identity politics implores people to replicate its thinking in order to better endure the narccistic culture of superficial accusations that its accustomed to publicising and promoting. Some MTGOW are merely trying to defensively reclaim some territory to find a safe seclusion of cultural space, where its okay to be masculine without the metric of 'toxic masculinity' being leveraged against them: its a cultural backlash, and represents a group of normal people who aren't ideological or intellectual, forced to making arguments that can contend in an arena against identity politics. Some other MTGOW men are perfectly reasonable and sane, they are just coping with certain recognitions that they consider it rational to respond to the prevalence of conditions: but all interpretation of reality can be used as a source of toxic conceit, how certain is any theory or knowledge claim, being open to new ideas and new outlooks is an important aspect of intellectual humility, sadly these values are exactly what gets abused by the rise in vulnerable-narcissism, that is both celebrated and empowered by identity politics. I would say your social experiment, is yet further fuel to the fires of inauthenticity, scripted and gamed judgmentalness, which to my mind, is psychologically similar to the kind of armchair moral authority that is claimed through mobilisation of superficial generalisations.

Feminism is dangerous, because the conflict theory and critical theory that it's based on, is a form of identity-nationalism, within a transnational worldview: your identity-interests becomes your nation, its very similar to the fascistic world view, and politics of ethno-nationalism, forcing people to demand security from culture and politicians, delivered to the identity-generalisation. As such liberal values have been hurt, and democracy has been destabilised, as the mainstream journalism becomes a mouthpiece for this new version of politics. The world is becoming like a one-ideology state, under identity politics. I blame academics and journalists for this culture shift, I hope democracy will return back to health soon, but culture is lagging behind to properly debunk poison like feminism. MTGOW is a red herring issue.

[The_Sword]

it's a red herring, because it's a secondary symptom: and it's a response to the prime culprit: remove feminism, and then afterwards, go after and criticise MTGOW until its unpopular.. but in my view, it's a diversionary issue that merely will prolong the cause of this cultural situation, to treat MTGOW like its its own problem, when even within its own thinking, it's a considered-response to the prevalence of ideological warfare that continues to rage, and MTGOW is advocating for non-participation, its not even fighting back against feminism: its only justifying its own views on how it rationalises its own coping tactics.

[AmandaYVR]

Apope! Hallelujah! That's what I have to say. You were driving me a bit nuts with the inconsistencies. I came across you very recently. I immediately liked you and followed you. I had good associations with your name, photo and questions. And then all of a sudden - bam - he's gone off his rocker. What is he doing? This man doesn't match the other man. And your writing - your writing was better than some of your outlandish views. They didn't seem to jive. I unfollowed you. (Ok, and I admit, I briefly blocked you. Then unblocked again. Damn you.) Then I started thinking, "He's dangerous, this guy. He's causing damage here." And some of the types of people that you drew out with these... oof. Talk about a honey pot. Your writing was too... organized. It just didn't make sense.

And I am finding that every time there are such glaring inconsistencies that I observe in a person, it does need/can use further exploration. So while you've been infuriating at times, you've also confirmed something for me - that I should carry on with my philosophy and tactics here of not always disengaging, blocking, writing people off. I mean I hate trolls. So much. And I just don't have any troll in me. But context. Context, context, context. It allows one to go beneath what a person is saying, at one particular time, at face value, or what they are trying to project or portray. But it's a lot of work and energy, researching, thinking about this. But somewhere in this was a kernel that needed to be unearthed. I'm not saying you had a psychotic break or went off the deep end, but something was definitely amiss, run amok, and Amanda does not like mysteries unsolved. It's like Leonard's itchy sweater on The Big Bang Theory.

So now it's like you did the big reveal here, but honestly, you are capable of more. I think all your conclusions are correct, but that's all you have to say here now? After the kerfuffle? I am at the well and thirsty now. I trudged my Arabian mare all the way through the desert to the mirage trying to figure out what the damn thing in the distance was, you know, so pay up! (Jk.) But seriously... we are not done here. I'm goona get my coins back somehow.

[Bluemax]

Does your Arabian have a name? (sorry, I couldn't resist)

[AmandaYVR]

@Bluemax Oh I'll play!

How about this beauty?
Ansata Almurtajiz

[Bluemax]

Well, that was a (poor) reference to the song A Horse with no Name.

If I had an Arabian mare, I might name her Sirocco, after the North African desert wind. Or...
Anam (God's creation)
Fauzia (Victorious)
Kiram (Ray of light)
Maheen (Radiant like the moon)
Nazia (Proud)
Tanveer (Enlightened)

Have you ever ridden an Arabian? I haven't, though my friend's girlfriend was a member of a posse that had one Arabian. She told me they are naturally showy. Divas, if you will. I'm told they are something of a challenge to train and ride.

If I had an Arabian stallion, I might name him...
Algol (Demon, and the name of a star in Perseus)
Vega (Eagle, also the name of a star, but in Lyra)
Betelgeuse (NOT Beetlejuice, Shoulder of the Giant, a star in Orion)
Ishaq (Laughter, Arabic version of Isaac)
Rashid (Rightly guided)
Kashif (Discoverer, pioneer)

(Hanging my head in shame) I admit I might train Betelgeuse to come when he hears his name called three times.

[Yads_Is_Back]

WOW AWESOME I love this. And you're only 32? You've got some wisdom, in contrast to most other men your age who want to claim things like MGTOW and also consider us women their enemies.

First I wanna say I'm a female anti-feminist and proud of it. (My take on feminism and also despising MGTOW guys: Why I'm Against Feminism (And How This Negatively Impacts Me When It Comes To Dating Men) )

Second, I LOVE THE VERY FIRST MYTAKE YOU REFERENCED. Yes! MGTOW is one of the most stupid things I've ever known of in my entire life. Your take is 100% true and hit right-on.

Okay, so to combine those and to reply to your actual post here... I'm with you on about 95% of it.
- "Women have little courage." : Unfortunately you're right, and it's a disgrace to our gender as a whole when these women call themselves "standing up for rights" when they're really "standing up for wrong" and then become all wussy and want to suck up to the men at that point, as you mentioned on GAG. Again, I'm not one who will ever stand up for modern feminism anyway, so I don't have this issue, but the way it affects me as a woman is that it makes all of us look bad. The problem, I think, is that these women want to stand up for the craziest things, call it feminism because they're women, and then make it look like there are none of us who are actually proud to be women anymore. News flash: we might be few, but we still exist.
- "Everybody hates you." : Yeah, no kidding. Why do the genders have to hate each other so much? Everybody's in it for himself/herself, and little do people realize that individual freedom is limited. And then people wonder why everybody is at war with each other. Why can't women respect men for their masculinity and men respect women for their femininity? (This is also why I won't date a guy who's a modern feminist. He can have them and then complain about those things all he wants, but don't come at a woman who actually respects men with that mess.) And what lets you know that we are in such a crazy insane world now is that a lot of the laws being fought for are about sex! Apparently they hate each other but can't stay out of bed. What is this world coming to? lol
- "Men are tired of dating women." : Oh yeah... These guys are insane. www.girlsaskguys.com/relationships/q4162781-any-other-guys-rather-stay-single-have-an-imaginary-girlfriend These guys are pretty much either making themselves incels - involuntary celibates - or idiots, one or the other. This kind-of goes along with the MGTOW thing. If you want nothing to do with women, that's cool, stay an incel. The women won't care, mainly because the guys who are actually men and have grown a pair (a. k. a. don't let women command them to be feminine but they keep their masculinity regardless) don't give up on women. I wonder why LOL But if you're gonna change your mind every time you meet a woman who's not feminist and actually stands out in today's society as a real woman, you definitely won't get her by switching these roles every time you lose. You put yourself in a constant losing game. (Again, I know that because I'm proud to be a woman and don't support feminism. You'd be amazed at how many guys call themselves ex-MGTOW just to get at me, and as soon as I find out they were involved with it I get rid of them. So I know first-hand.)
So my point on that last one about men being tired of dating women... As an anti-feminist and more traditional woman, I honestly don't care if these men want to make themselves incels or build robot girlfriends like that guy mentioned in the link. That's not going to affect me either way. However, stand firm with whatever you choose and don't switch just because you find a woman whom you see as different. Take your side because we don't want the switching. We get enough of that on our time of the month lol

CONCLUSION: I agree with you, and I'm kinda glad a guy wrote this take because it shows that some of us - like me and you - can be in sync. The only part I didn't agree with is that when you say "Women have little courage" I think you mean as a whole gender since most are being conformed to feminism or either not standing up for being anti-feminist so I'm with you if that's what you mean. We anti-feminists are the ones who need to have the courage, especially since even men sometimes assume we are the same and treat us the same. Imagine how disgusting that is to us.
Anyways, awesome take. I'm gonna follow you because I'm highly interested to see what more you post about this in the future.

[Mellontikos]

yes you run into a lot of stupid men. Personally why the heck would I want a woman that's slept with 3 or 4 more guys? You can't bond to me anymore.

[Yads_Is_Back]

@Mellontikos Definitely. 100% right on. That's why those of us who don't just go for casual sex like that just for the pleasure of it are more picky.

[Mellontikos]

I agree. This is why I believe religion is needed (even if I am agnostic). We need a system that will teach both men AND women that they should strive to seek out one partner for life. Both the man, and the woman, should ideally be virgins, and then be exclusive to each other for life. Those are the happiest relationships.

[Yads_Is_Back]

@Mellontikos You're so right :)

[Anonymous]

I’m starting to like my tow because it basically sums up my life. Didn’t realize there would be a name attached to men not giving a fuck anymore. Kinda like when it wasn’t called trolling years ago, it was called being a smart ass. My grandmother was there as a flapper girl during the first wave. Then my aunt was involved with second wave. She basically said “we didn’t need people telling us we were special and had to be protected, we wanted to be like the guys having fun.” Today she’s upset because now the same breakthroughs they worked for are being used against men via third wave feminism. She doesn’t appreciate that I like the idea of being by myself since I’ve told her I don’t feel there are any quality women in the area that her or the rest of our family could grow to like. I told her how feminists like to target white men and developed western countries they want to bring about the collapse internally and have been working this out since the time of the second wave 2.5 when Gloria Steinem showed up being paid by shadowy agencies in order to weaponize the female voice and vote. Shaved heads, drew Carrey glasses, flannel dressing like daria and black boots. It seems like they are trying to develop an anti rape image of what they feel new female beauty should be. She was a little upset when I said they dress ugly on purpose in order not to get Raped or asked out and she just said how it goes against everything her generation stood for, the risk of going out and now they have to be protected was the most sexist thing she thought I had to say.

Being Motown I guess time means protecting myself and family against very toxic women who may end up bringing me down even more since I want to be left alone because I’ve never felt good enough. I can’t find a lucrative career like my friends and they are on my ass too. How would I be able to make family happy too knowing they want me to get married to a woman who’s got a good head on her shoulder. At least they agree with me about why we desperately need a violence against men act instead of relieving the past of the decline of Rome and how they were all for no fault divorce and back then if men refused to get married they would publicly shame, parading them around Rome stating how it’s their duty as romans to care for a strong Roman wife, they were shamed because they had money and refused marriage lol. At least we are not there yet at the point where special laws are made to publicly shame single guys, throwing food at them, etc...

[Cortaine]

Once, ages and ages ago, when a useless samaritan wanted to piss on people for fun, they would be called "fuckheads," or "assfaces." These fuckboys decided that they needed an excuse to be complete dicks to the world, and thus, they adopted the term "social experiment" for their own. Before the fuckboys came into power, a social experiment was done by a man of science, who wished to learn about the world around them, and they did so with the consent and agreement of all involved. Not to be confused with a prank, a practical joke in which all parties involved can laugh about it afterwards, a social experiment has come to mean a cruel troll in which a fuckboy does something unimaginably stupid and rude and dismisses it as a practical joke. Tragic. Fuckboy Frank: *Shoots a dog*Sane Samantha: Dude what the fuckFuckboy Frank: Chill brah its a social experiment. See there's the camera. Come on it's just a joke. Source: Urban dictionary. But I think it fits. Instead of playing devils advocate, try using disclaimers to show that you are trolling to start a discussion, instead of just trolling to start a discussion. If you are serious about this, which I doubt.

[Apope16]

A disclaimer would influence the response. Only by the perception of authenticity of the my take can results by deemed authentic.

[ManOnFire]

Good Take. I support neither feminism nor MGTOW, or "Men's Rights" either. Feminism is a monster that was created by privelaged white women, and feminism actually does have a very real racist history. Men's Rights is a weak movement about guys trying to convince the whole world of how men have it soooooo bad and trying to use the same pathetic victim strategies that feminists have used for decades.

However, what I will say is that there is actually a lot of truth in what men do say about women, and what women could actually learn from, but instead they are getting in their feelings and choosing to write these men off as misogynist, "bitter," "incel," etc. simply because they aren't happy about what those guys are saying. Sometimes something a man is saying is or seems misogynist, but that also doesn't mean it's not true just because it sounds like it's hating women. It's just unfortunate truth. So a lot actually gets lost because women would rather close their ears and just label men as something bad instead of learning something like they want us to learn their points of view.

"If I wrote something defending Women's Rights everyone would attack me as being a "beta male feminist". If I wrote something critical of women, everyone would attack me for being "a male misogynist"." - I've been in both positions before. You can't make everybody happy, so just keep doing your thing regardless of how people will take it. It's on them not you.

[JDavid25]

Actually Mens right are merely tryin to give a voice to men since society kina ignores things that guys go through.. Do you know that despite bein 53% of domestic violence victims and 40% of severe victims, there is only one abuse shelter for men? Or how divorce courts are usually in favor for women? Or how most of the homeless population are guys? Or how 40% of college graduates are guys? Or how they paint most of history as men bein the winners and women the loser, yet in 1920 most men got the right to vote at a Federal level at the same time as women?

[ManOnFire]

@JDavid25 I already did know all that, yeah. But the sad thing about it is that men are largely the ones who still control the system yet let things continue to be against their own gender because of they're sexual attraction to women, and mostly to white women.

[JDavid25]

"Mens Rights is a weak movement about guys trying to convince the whole world of how men have soooooo bad and trying to use the same pathetic victim strategies that feminists have used for decades"... Okay I guess I will somehow believe that you knew all of this..

[JDavid25]

And throughout history men have always listened to women they care about.. That hasn't changed at all. Women have just as much power if not more than men just in a different way.. Like how women thrive in the Education system, and how most teachers are women.. And feminism has had a huge grasp on society.. So that shows you that women really were never oppressed and that men don't usually favor other men.. In fact men and women together are usually tougher on men than they ever would be on women.

[ManOnFire]

@JDavid25 I used to study both feminism and MRA. MRA has been a movement largely helmed by that guy Paul Elam, who is a nutcase. There are other men out there who try to be leaders of the movement, but Elam is the one most people know about.

Definitely true that both men and women are tougher on men than we are on women, but again, men are the ones who are more dominant in the system, so they're allowing a lot of things to go on.
How Men's Rights and the Men's Rights Movement Are A Lie ↗

[JDavid25]

I looked at Paul Elam and nothin about him is a nutcase.. The fact that he actually did his research and used to be a feminist says that he is a guy worth listenin to.. And you say "Oh, men are the ones running the system".. The lines up with the idea of the patriarchy.. Which doesn't exist.. It just so happen that men are the ones expected to do the leadin so, of course they are in power.. But more women vote these men, and they decide to let society cater to women.. But the thing is that feminist or don't care or fight for it either.. In fight the fight against it.. And plenty of MRAs acknowledge that powers that be just let feminism pull them in..

[JDavid25]

In fact they fight against any programs that are designed to try and help men***..

[ManOnFire]

@JDavid25 Elam is right about some things, no doubt. But the story of who this guy is pretty terrible. This is the article I read some time back: www.buzzfeed.com/.../how-mens-rights-leader-paul-elam-turned-being-a-deadbeat-dad

[jestergent]

We had the man slide (in the past) and now we are currently in the woman slide.

Best for both sexes to learn of both histories (past of men treat women, and now, of women treat men when in power) then get an equal, fair, slide.
The only goal of modern feminism is to put women to work. Ever heard of conquer divide. We are divided away from marriage, by pitting us against each others sex, so we are easier to control and remove the power of the family.

Look around... as feminism grows, you don't find "good men", you don't get married, churches shrink, marriage family abolished. more single moms and dads... who hate each other. isolation. more labor. more work. women are working.

Men are not happy with the current usa marriage contract. I want to marry, and I'm training myself to avoid it. I'm training myself to not be an option. Isn't there something wrong with that. I want fair marriage. I don't hate. I don't bite. I hope someone reading this is in politics and can just do a quick fix. Boom, ailomony for life after 10 years... abolish that law. That is a big one, be a big move forward.

There is nothing good to come from the saying 2019 "Where have all the good men gone" to 2042 "There are no good men left" articles. Men don't win. Women don't win. Not the majority. I'm sure a few might. Those who might don't know the benefits from those who become families. More happy people in this world, will help all. Less fights, Less division, Less Tribal warfare. Trump might regrow his head of hair and Michael Jackson be alive today.

We live in a ring. Butterfly effect, karma, etc. What goes in one side of the ring, moves to the other side, reaching all. Then it gravitates to the center and spits out. Lets be a team. Make marriage laws work for men AND women.

[Edanurus]

I don't see how this experiment and the conclusions are linked. It seems there's a lot that needs to be assumed here for it to make sense or I'm completely lost.

Why are you surprised that people dislike you when you're playing a character who is designed to be as outlandish, controversial and skimming one or two as offensive as possible?

How is "not all' an absolutist viewpoint? Isn't that the complete opposite?

How can you say that the majority of men on GaG are MGTOW? Your testing was entirely done around the subject of gender in society, therefore your sample is going to be highly skewed towards people who are interested in that topic namely MGTOW/MRA types or Feminist/Social Justice types. Would also make sense why the majority of men you sampled would be tired of dating

Why does women not defending feminism lead to the conclusion that women have little courage? You've assumed the motive is fear and haven't explained why you think that is.

I don't get it, is this post still part of the social experiment?

[Anonymous]

I can definitely agree with the absolutism that goes on especially on GAG, but then again, this is ONLY from GAG. I've been on MGTOW forums before and I got plenty of praise when I wrote this:

"Men are naturally libertarian and women are naturally authoritarian.

But this is provable though as more than opinion, as men historically were the ones to be fiscally careful, but do whatever necessary to survive, whether that meant making alliances, enemies, etc. Women, on the other hand were historically fiscally liberal, as they weren't the ones usually providing resources, therefore, did not care as much how it was used. However, they are ones that need to keep healthy to have babies, so being demanding of treated a specific way was necessary to some degree. Today, this all varies a lot, but the natural and historical conditioning of humans in these ways can be seen on average if you look closely enough."

MGTOW, the non extreme fringe or fake part, do not hate women. They simply do not want to deal as much with them anymore. Period. And fact? MGTOW is VERY diverse and growing, as not all men that believe in its morals identify with it. There are MGTOW white, black, gay, native American, chritian, jewish, hindu, indian, aisan, rich, broke, divorced, using hookers, etc. Hard to see that though unless you lean to embrace at least part of it yourself.

[zollo]

You sure are right about the "everybody hates you", it's like no matter what you do Someone someway will try to find a reason to be mad. I don't really agree with the "Women have little courage" bit, in my case anyways if I have something I want to comment about I will but making an entire my post about it just seems unproductive because of the majority type of men on here are very conservative and unwilling to think or hear anything else. Like if I not only want to be heard but actually talk to other people about something more political Iv'e learned that this isn't really the place for that, it's a lot of "Women like you...", "Listen Hun...", "You're just a Femi-Nazi..." and blaming only democrats for burning america lol. Going to the Society and Politics tab just makes me feel bad, it seems less like a discussion and more like a cesspool of people who all think the same thing just patting themselves o the back with a couple people on the other side mixed in.

[ManHater]

There is a reason why women are more sympathetic and empathetic to those who suffer because men see that as an opportunity to abuse weak women. "Stockholm syndrome" You wonder why women are always getting the short end of the stick and it won't change because it's this Nurture trait that you have.

[GnarCute]

Feminism as i have said multiple times in the past has been nothing more than a way for girls to wave power over men, whenever i see feminists protesting its always over some real bullshit reason like a women being banned from a store for being an obnoxious karren

or they are protesting a legitimate business because they think its sexist.

They go out of their way to dox people, attack them by going to their bosses and employers with made up complaints of sexual harassment or racism or sexism and its fucking bullshit just look at vic mignogna

[piscesbluedreams]

Actually we don't argue with MGTOW cause they are wrong, hateful and judgmental. Also very sexist cause you can't group a whole gender just cause of a few bad experiences.

First of all; I've seen the 'single mother' bashing. No idea why they resent mothers so much. Weird.
And no single mother actually wants to have sex with them. Turns out we aren't the sex freaks advertised on porn sites.

Being a mother has actually increased the amount of men that approach me. They find motherhood an attractive quality..
I have more choices now and perhaps that's why they resent us!!

[Daren77]

Ha.
"we don't argue with MGTOW cause they are wrong, hateful and judgmental."
Translation: They say things that hurt my feelings so I stopped listening.
"Also very sexist cause you can't group a whole gender just cause of a few bad experiences."
Translation: "It's wrong to group a bunch of people and stereotype them, just because of a few bad experiences. But im going to do that SAME THING to MGTOW. It's ok when i do it."

"First of all; I've seen the 'single mother' bashing."
Translation: "I'm a single mother who can't get with the guys I really want because the guys i really want have options, which is girls who dont have kids."
I take that as "bashing". This way i can SHAME a group of people, which i say is wrong.

"And no single mother actually wants to have sex with them. Turns out we aren't the sex freaks advertised on porn sites."
Translation: "I wish the guys I want wouldn't look at me as used up because I tossed around my vag too much. So now ill Shame guys as the only reason they are bashing women like me is because they can't get any sex from us. (which further demonstrates how you think thats all you can offer a man.)
"Being a mother has actually increased the amount of men that approach me. They find motherhood an attractive quality.."
Translation: "Men are approaching me more because I stink of desperation and when i say they are approaching me more i mean IM acting more like a slut."

[Mellontikos]

@Daren77 Thank you.

The reason we don't want single mothers is because we don't believe we should be responsible for someone else's kid. Why should that burden be unloaded on us? It's so hard for the child to begin with, particularly if they know their real dad, but this other stranger is trying to act like their dad.

With that said, reasonable men would not blanket judge, and would be open to a single mother, provided there aren't any red flags in a possible relationship.

[Yads_Is_Back]

You can't blame them - or anybody - for the not wanting a single parent thing. That's understandable, not just from biology but in any and every way you look at it. Seriously, why would anyone prefer that?
But Daren77 just really made men look bad when she said "Men are approaching me more because I stink of desperation and when i say they are approaching me more i mean IM acting more like a slut." That's sad... lol That means the men are desperate too.
MGTOW is basically a big group of incels. And the generalization on that isn't wrong. I wouldn't call them "hateful and judgmental," but MGTOW itself is pretty stupid, as the poster said. So generalizations are only inaccurate when you're talking about a big group like a whole gender, for example, and saying one thing about all of them - which is what, like 3 billion or more people on the planet? But when you single out a group for something that applies to all of them, then the generalization is correct. It's like saying math is all about numbers and quantities... well, it kinda is lol

[Mellontikos]

@Yads_Is_Back As Jordan Peterson would say "the devil is in the details".

What exactly is an incel? If a guy can get laid, but cannot find a relationship with a good woman, is that incel?

So what are the reasons that men cannot get laid (we're only dealing with that aspect right now).

1. They are unwilling to date women significantly lower in looks and status than they are.
2. They are so low in looks and status themselves, that there is no woman who would sleep with them at all.

So really #1 is not truly an incel. If a guy was a 5 out of 10 looks wise, he could find women that are 3 out of 10 and get sex out of the deal. Would it be worth it? I don't know, but textbook wise, he would not be an incel anymore.

So MGTOW being a stupid philosophy. So let's talk about real MGTOW vs VirginTOW

1. Real MGTOW is usually a philosophy about not dealing with women at all, mostly due to the system (not the woman, or women) being corrupt, and heavily anti-men. Some women use the system to break the man and destroy him. So these men that already usually been stung already, and decide to forgo further contact with women out of self-preservation.

2. VirginTOW is just a bunch of young males, who have no drive to improve. They don't worry about going to the gym, looking good, eating right. They don't worry about becoming something great. Learning, studying a field that makes good money. They rather be unemployed, fat, eating cheetos in the basement of their parent's house, and complain that women don't find them attractive. They attach themselves to the True MGTOW's because it's an easy way out for them, instead of having to put in the work.

So which version are you referring to when you way it's a stupid philosophy?

[Yads_Is_Back]

@Mellontikos All of it, pretty much, because it's funny how the guys who actually are desired by women, as you say, are NOT MGTOW lol. Then again, when you think about it, they're the ones the women want so why would they go MGTOW, when they're getting all the women?

[piscesbluedreams]

@Yads_Is_Back No one is forcing MGTOW to date people with children. Their opinions are unwanted and not based in reality.

[piscesbluedreams]

@Daren77 MGTOW opinions don't hurt my feelings. Everything you wrote is just nonsense and there's no point debating made-up assumptions.

[Sonorous]

@Yads_Is_Back - How do you feel about men who have certain MGTOW views as I do? I can date and get laid if I really wanted to, but I just choose not to (for now) because of reasons that can be seen within stoic values? I don't force my views on people, I just silently focus on myself.

It's not the only reason why I have MGTOW views, I do have some issues with the whole monogamy thing, but I'm not an incel.

[Mellontikos]

@Yads_Is_Back I see you didn't read my comment at all, expect maybe skimming it.
It's clear you think all men will drop everything to get any vagina offered to them. True MGTOWs don't do that, but they are only 10% of the MGTOW group. The rest is those losers you despise so much.

[joeblow123]

@Mellontikos

test

[joeblow123]

@Mellontikos

The thing about yada yada yada is that she is so thin-skinned she will block if you are winning the argument.

[joeblow123]

@piscesbluedreams

MGTOW is legitimate and genuine. It is feminism that is evil and filled with lies. Even other women are saying "no" to feminism.

[thewonderofpandora]

Sounds about half wrong and half right.

I don't know (or care) what MGTOW is, it sounds like some weirdo internet thing, but I don't like feminism (or most feminists I've met) and I'm definitely politically to the right. Not a libertarian though, they're weirdos too.

On the other hand, the last thing seems like blatant information. "Men are tired of dating women" is followed by a statistic about single mothers, not women.

Anecdotally, I've met plenty of strong women. It's just that none of them were feminists.

[sawno]

I wouldn't really say most people on here are right wing, the problem is the goal post has been pushed so far left that everyone with a common sense moderate mind will fall on the right these days even if they are in nature liberal democratic progressives like me. Which may sound insane to those who have forgotten what those words mean.

From my own experiences girls will absolutely debate the men, but usually end up blocking if they can not win the argument. The other girls are not feminists themselves or simply do not enjoy political conversation.

[glenns]

I have determined that the only reason why a man would support feminist and be against any of the various men's rights groups is quite simply this: he's trying to get in a feminist's panties.
He thinks that if he can agree with a feminist enough and pander to feminism as aggressively as he is able, then - maybe just then - he believes a feminist will give him her phone number and he'll score.
"Uh-hut, hey Bevis. I got a feminists phone number. I'm gonna score. Uh-hut uhhh huuh..."
"Yeah, Butthead, you're gonna score. Score! Ah-he she! Butthead said score. Yeah, yeah, score! "
Uh-huh, uuuu-hh, Uh-hut-hut"
"I'm gonna score, uhhhh-huhh"

[victoriaxoxo]

I think that is quite sad. You’re basically saying that you think the only reason a man would ever support women’s rights or care about their well being is because they want to fuck her?

[DonCachondo]

I think you're heavily underestimating how much people love to pat themselves on the back for being forward-thinking and morally superior.

[Celtero]

The fact is Feminism is corrupt and to some extent always has been but now is more than ever... there are many things to be critical about it, and women are waking up to it or just finding it plain hard to defend.

You look at today's generation and there are many cases were women excel above men. Young women, in general, are more educated, earn more, buy property earlier, etc than their male counterparts.

Yet feminism still claims life as a woman is much harder, men are constantly using the 'patriarchy' to dominate and suppress women. And you look at something like suicide rates and men everywhere commit suicide far more than women. We make up the bulk of the victims of violent crime, disease, addiction, you name it. Maybe us men are just the shittiest oppressors in the universe? I dunno.

It should be clear to anyone reasonable that feminism is about as delusional and paranoid as those alt-right jew (((conspiracies.)))

[Dargil]

I'm sure I stepped into the mud a time or two.
"The majority of men on GAG are right wing, neo-Libertarian types who have a strong MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) orient."
*Libertarians aren't really right wing. We are politically conservative and Constitutional but socially, we are more centrist. We don't care what people do with and to their plumbing so long as we don't have to pay for it or change our lifestyles to accommodate it..
*What I don't like about at least some MGTOW is that it seems a little whiny... reactive, not pro-active. Like they are retreating. Going my own way was bringing an Philippine girl here with life skills and traditional values. One way to extinguish the virus of Feminism is to quarantine it like the Wuhan Flu.

[cyclopspanda]

👏👏👏👏 well done. Im not gonna pick anything apart cuz i feel like the conclusions you're coming to are gonna reveal some hard truths to you. I think you should look into some red pill videos to get a more accurate understanding of what it means to be mgtow and live the red pill lifestyle. Not all men are stuck in the anger faze of the red pill awareness.
Look up guys like Rollo Tomasi, Donovan Sharpe, Joker, Coach Greg Addams, Sandman, and Sydney Mgtow on YouTube. This app is NOT a good representation of mgtow or red pill.

[Anonymous]

Yea your miss characterization of anti-fems men republicans tells me your a cookie cutter liberal who is too self assured to take a moment and actually consider what the other side is saying. Which is the key element in understanding other people. Though I assume your ability to steel yourself from dissenting views and tow the line of a certain political message has benifited you well as a "editor". Your cherry picking information and mischaracterization only goes to further sow divides in people and stifle new conversations.

[Apope16]

I would suggest you read the paragraph "Absolutism" Because your response is an exact representation of what I meant. You are picking at little imperfections in an argument without making a general point about the essence and true meaning of the article.

[captain_voidwalker]

That's because bieng right is always and I mean always more important that your feelings. 2+2always = 4 I don't care how much you feel like it should =3

[Opinion Owner]

If I must spell it out for you I will. Your not honest about what you found. Your bending what you learned to fit your world view. Your manipulation benefits you personally while also causing more aggression between both sides of these political and social issues.

I pick at imperfections big or small because a argument is a chain of rationalizations and logic. If one chain is broken or damaged the damage will increase as you go down the line. Thus small things can be just as important if not more important than big issues. Considering the importance of these issues I would hope people would not over look small lies and bad logic. Truth resists simplicity and your insistence on simplicity can be dangerous.

(Ps: being dismissive and trying to straw man people makes you look like a childish ass.)

[Apope16]

I am honest by what I observed. Just click on the links above and see the responses yourself. By the way. I never said the anti Feminism people were Republicans

[mmat2020]

Haha that's interesting. Mixed feelings about being tricked in your clickbait.
In your analysis, please take note that some people saw one of your mytake, answered or not (I did, two) and then just said to themselves fuck this guy is insane I won't read the other ones. Might create a bias

[Apope16]

I am impressed that people even looked at various mytakes.