I’ve seen some couples who have been together for 10+ and never considered getting “married”. I mean aren’t they “married” at that point? What are your thoughts on this?
Absolutely. The perspectives on life are varied, as are the perspectives on marriage. Not everyone gets married for the same reason. Some people got married because their dad wanted more goats, and some dude with goats offered him goats if she married him. Other people got married because they got pregnant and were too embarrassed to be a single mom in their culture. Or got someone pregnant and felt a moral obligation to marry their baby mama. I could go on, but you get the idea, there's lots of different motivations.
I would absolutely be down to be in a long term relationship without being married, and in fact I think that would be preferable to marriage.
The thing about marriage is that it is a static/stagnant contract made between two dynamic/changing beings. You are not who you were 3 years ago, and you won't be the same person 3 years from now. To get married is to make a promise that the way you feel today is the way you will continue to feel for the rest of your life. It's romantic, but not logical. The likelihood is you will end up like over 50% of people who get married: divorced. The odds are not even as good as a coin flip. And even if you did stay married, you might not be happy. It's not that every unhappy marriage ends in divorce. Many people stay unhappily married, about 1/4 of them. (I don't know if that has any correlation to the 10%-20% of marriages that are sexless, but likely some crossover there, since sex is often an expression of love and joy.)
So what's better than marriage? Being with someone who can leave whenever they want, who hasn't made any empty promises, but who decides to stay with you even though they don't have a legal contract with you to do so. So you can be a little more confident he's not just staying with you because he's worried about losing half his stuff when you go.
There's a great quote I read years ago that was part of an article. It was about needing someone vs. wanting someone, and it said that the best thing a partner could say is "I don't need you." because need connotes that you don't have a choice. It's much better to be with someone who is doing so of their own free will. IMHO
nightdrot | 65 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Guru
11 d
Voted yes. The reasoning being somewhat unusual.
My girlfriend and I met over 14 years ago and have been living together and we have been living together for 12 years. We have three children. They are the center of my universe and I love her and them with all my heart.
The funny thing is that when we moved in together - itself a bit of a surprise given that we are actually both pretty traditional - we began to talk about getting married. It did not really appeal.
So the conversation sort of drifted off - and then my girlfriend got pregnant the first time. It was funny. She cried telling me because she thought I was going to be upset. I cried because I was wildly happy.
So we began discussing marriage again - but it just does not sing to us. It is not that we do not believe in marriage. There is no doubt as an empirical matter that it is better for society than not. As a religious matter - we are both Catholic and attend church even now with our kids, though we do not take the Sacraments - we understand its importance.
It is just that we love what we have and we think it is natural and beautiful. We are as nature intended us to be, simple and instinctive. Somehow, the idea of an expensive ring, a big ceremony and a permission slip from the state detracts from that. Even the religious aspect, though we are a bit more unsure in that respect, gives it a complexity that does not improve what we have, strange as that sounds.
It is not even a question of not wanting a big ceremony. Probably we could work around that - without offending too many family members. (I say that only partly in jest. Certainly, it would make her Navy veteran and very Catholic father VERY happy to have a wedding at all.)
It is just the whole idea of marriage adds a level of complexity that we do not want. What my girlfriend and I share is animal and natural and instinctive and emotional and deep all at once. Marriage, seen in that way, is artificial and a contrivance.
It is not that I object to artifice. I do not and think society needs it. It is just that I do not want it in my relationship to the mother of my children.
Truth in advertising my emotions - and that of my girlfriend - are sincere. Our thinking is not totally consistent. Yet we are happy - we are in every way, were you to see us, a happy and loving comfortable suburban family only minus the ring and the marriage license - and we don't want to fix that which is not broken.
This is an interesting take. It speaks to me since marriage seems like it is mostly a production now, but I still believe in it at its core. I don't know about a letter from the government approving what you already know, but I do believe in the religious aspect. I don't know how I would feel about being in a situation like yours, but it does seem more pure than a lot of marriages. Weird.
@GnatSocks Yes, we find how we feel somewhat unusual ourselves but we are happy and as I say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The hardest part for us is that we do accept the religious aspect of it and believe in it. However, even there, we can't put our finger on it, but it just feels contrived somehow. We continue to attend church - we are Catholic - but we play by the rules and do not partake of the sacraments.
Of course, we are also raising our children in our faith. That is easy now as they are young and just roll with it. In fact, being young, our biggest problem is making sure that they sit still and behave. However, as they get older, they will likely begin to ask questions and then we have to explain matters when we are not totally sure we can ourselves.
That said, we are happy. What my girlfriend and I share is natural and beautiful and we don't want to change it. We don't recommend it to everyone, but for us it has been deep, profound and loving.
I guess that it could be worth it to someone who is OK with being with someone who is only moderately committed to them. However, for me (and a lot of other people) it would not be worth it at all. I want someone loving and committed enough to be in it with me for the long haul even if and when things get hard. The commitment and security that comes with the marriage vows is a huge indication of devotion and love in that they'll stay with you even if things are difficult. If you don't want to take those vows with a long term partner it indicates that you may be committed and loving, but but only insofar as things don't get too difficult. I think it reflects a very lukewarm level of love and commitment. If my husband hadn't been interested in making those vows with me I would not have stayed with him. It would have been an indication that he wasn't as committed, devoted, and (quite frankly) loving to me as I am to him.
I get that there are many times when divorce is necessary. I've been divorced (my current husband is my 2nd husband). However, the only reason why I divorced my first husband is that he became so abusive that I couldn't stay in that marriage and expect the safety for me or my daughters. I also get that there are less extreme circumstances when divorce may be appropriate. However, I also think there are probably a lot of times that people get divorced when they shouldn't/could still make things work.
It's not worth it to me (and many others) to be with someone who is only committed enough so long as things don't get too hard and doesn't love me enough to stay with me even if things get difficult.
I'm in a 6,5 year relationship, we have a baby already but aren't married. I don't feel the need to be married. Not everyone wants to get married. But that doesn't mean their relationship isn't strong enough or the people want to have keep their options open or are afraid of commitment. I just don't see how marriage would be beneficial for me.
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Jean-Marie_Céline | 77 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Influencer
8 d
Yes, because relationships, like all things, have the value you give them. So you can have a valueless marriage and a deep, committed marriageless relationship. For example, my mother and my father's marriage for example was a disaster, for them and for us children. While my mother unmarried relationship with another man some years later was probably one of the happiest periods of her life.
Yeah I think so. I do personally believe most people see marriage as a symbol of being committed to someone. It just depends on how you look at it. Sure its completely normal to want to marry someone that you have been with for a long time and its basically non verbally telling them "hey I wanna keep you around" but in my opinion you don't necessarily need to get married. There are certainly many financial arguments you can make such as being married helps you save taxes on top of the non verbal commitment but then you can also make the argument that you can still raise a family or decide you don't want sex or decide you do not want kids for whatever reason. It depends on how you look at it because some people will make the argument of "if I don't propose to them then I'm not making my intentions clear and I might not keep them around even though I want to keep them." The way I see it is you can still verbally let someone know you want them to stay or share the idea that you are interested in staying with them even though you don't propose to them. Something along the lines of "hey I want you to stay with me but we don't have to actually get married." Some people might also see a potential threat from that since you didn't propose to them and they didn't officially tie a knot with you that they might get disinterested. I think that's the main reason why I make it clear to people that are interested in me before they consider dating me about my opinions so then there is no confusion later down the line and instead they can save time and effort and make their decision if they want to date me or not.
Religious considerations aside, marriage is a social convention that satisfies antiquated predjudices of proper social decorum and outdated requirements of utility, in a day and age where different economic realities exist today, from the days of yesteryear. In other words, it's just a piece of paper, that only is relavant to life partners who define it as such, and devorce attorneys hired by those failed marriages that don't. Some people use marriage as a means of trapping someone into a relationship they might not be ready for, and this is not a good motivation for getting married. Some people are naive enough to believe that long engagements are dumb and that getting to know each other better, through time, patience, and shared experience, is irrelevant to a lifelong commitment of happiness with each other. If you don't enjoy being in each other's company, and you're not happy together, then spending one second with each other is not worth it and you shouldn't be together, at least not in that context. People who really want to be with each other, don't have to ask this question because they enjoy the time they spend with each other, and don't worry about issues like marriage until they reach the time in the relationship where the sexual and emotional maturity necessary to ask these questions concerning lifelong commitments, ensure that the answer will be yes, unless circumstances dictate otherwise.
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hahahmm | 92 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Guru
10 d
It's kind of like asking is it worth driving 1,000 miles to find the perfect Christmas tree. Well, to some people it is & to some it isn't. And if you drove that 1,000 miles and didn't find anything then you wasted your time. Maybe you drive 1,000 miles, come home and find the perfect tree 2 blocks from where you live too. So people never know everything in advance in life. Although the older you get the easier it is to avoid bad stuff cause of experience.
As KrakenAttackin points out, in modern times (in the west), marriage is VERY risky for men. I'd say if you happen to find the rare and worthy wife material & you have a pre-nup, go for it. But short of that, no. If you see a woman who's been with a guy unmarried for 10 years it's not her choice to be unmarried. 99.9% of the time the woman thinks of/wants the marriage LONG before it ever crosses that guy's mind. Some guys like me have VERY HIGH standards for 'wife material'. A girlfriend, even a really good girlfriend isn't in the same zipcode as good wife material. It's like the difference between the CEO of Coca-Cola and the lady who mops the floors at Coca-Cola.
And to be more precise... to me good wife material (besides the obvious stuff people can name), above all else, must be trustworthy. She has earned that.. it's not just given out or a reward for 'time served'. So the woman who does shady things isn't wife material.
well year's ago there use to be common law marriage that was you had to be living with the person 5 year's or more but they did aesy with that law now and all honesty coming from a guy that was married twice zi would never do it again cause once your married she is automatically entitled to half of your belongings and if you have kids with her she automatically gets the house if you have 2 vehicles she gets 1 plus you have to pay child support then most cases being the mother is probably going to be a bitch towards you make it thst you will never ever see your child while your making child support payments then after that she will sue you for alimony meaning you have to give her money on a monthly basis including the child support so time you pay lawyer fees, child support alimony giving her your house and a car you will probably be paying around $3,000 a month depending on the type of job you have and money you make and how many kids you have now the question is do men benefit from getting married no not all in the judicial system the courts always favor the woman over the man see women know how to get what they wamt and they know how to use the judicial system
I've been married twice, and seen several of my friends marriages fall through. In almost every single case, once the wedding happens, the girl stops taking care of herself, and stops trying. That wasn't the only issue in each of the relationships, but once they stop trying hard to keep the person, their real personalities come out, and then the whole dynamic of the relationship changes and usually ends. It's not just the woman, but they tend to be the biggest culprit in this case. I'm not getting married again. I'm all over a life time partnership. To me marriage is just a contract and it's more of a religious thing. It's a bit hypocritical for non religious people to get married in my book.
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NamerOfStars | 57 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Guru
11 d
Religious aspects aside, marriage is getting the state involved in your relationship. I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool libertarian, but there are a LOT of good reasons to avoid that. There are a lot of people who are functionally married, and just don't have court documents backing it up. In some places, common-law marriage still exists, and they can be legally married without even knowing it.
Legal marriage and common law are not advantageous to a man. There is little reward and mostly liability.
I know there will be those traditional cucked men who will go on about how wonderful it is to be married. Right up until she introduces you to divorce. Then happy times are over.
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Anonymous
10 d
i keep reading you say through thick and thin and marriage vows and piece of paper well let me tell you, you don't need a piece of paper or marriage vows to stick by someone when times are rough. a few years ago the love of my life almost died and i stood by her all these years before and after that incident and we're not even married. yes i call her my wife but technically she isn't. would i want to marry her yes with all my heart, but at the same time i want to make sure she has an iron clad prenup before hand cause i don't want any of her money not a cent of it nor the house nor anything else she owns. she worked her ass off her whole life for what she has let her keep it. my last will im leaving everything i own to her i have it notorized i'm just trying to get the damn thing out of my fucking safe which i been busting apart for 2 days now prying the damn door off the thing.
For people that say it's just a flimsy piece of paper, try getting out of car lease contract, house lease contract, and student loans, if it's just a piece of paper. Basically, what you're saying is those material things have more value than your relationship. Lmao
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Phoenix98 | 406 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Master
10 d
To me no it's not if we're at that point but they have no intention nor interest in getting married then I would quite simply end the relationship and find someone who will.
Because to me marriage is very important for personal and religious reasons as such I can't and won't be with someone who has no interest in marriage.
I was raised with Christian values. But I believe that you can have a wedding ceremony without any papers or anything and it's just as valid spiritually. I believe you can say you vows to one another alone before a higher being and that's every bit as valid as a wedding where the state is involved or a paper makes it official. So where does that put someone like me?
I dont want to get married or split bank accounts we can have one shared account for all of our bills. Im old enough to have saved a good deal of money and am not about to lose 33 years of savings on some fickle woman who has a sudden change of heart.
There’s no right or wrong when it comes to relationships. Some people want marriage and some don’t. Some want exclusivity and some want open relationships. The key here is to find someone on the same page as you, with similar values, and a mutual consensual agreement.
For me I want to get married and exclusive. A year of dating is more than enough for me. I’ve also got a secure attachment style so I’m not scared of commitment.
the only reason why they would do that because they want the easy way out when they hit a single day that the relationship doesn't work out.
You will run the risk of your husband running off very easily and quickly , once things do not work out. Once you're married, its much harder to get a divorce. You will be guaranteed that all other options are explored before they divorce. Your decision whether to work things out or not, can make or break the relationship.
It's worth it in the sense that you'll save potentially tens of thousands of pounds on a pointless ceremony. And looking at the statistics, you'll be divorced in a few years so that's debt you'd have to deal with after you lose half your shit in the divorce.
I personally think you should not get married, accept that what you have won't last forever, and just make the most of the time you've got together.
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Anonymous
10 d
Personally, for me marriage is completely about having kids. It's an institutions whose primary utility is in setting up the best possible environment for kids to be raised. I'd only ever get married if I was planning on having kids soon after and I'd only suggest to someone that they get married if they're having kids. So if you're not planning on having kids, I'd say don't bother with the getting married.
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Anonymous
10 d
What is your ultimate goal of being in a relationship? If it's a lifelong commitment then why not get married. But without kids and at your young age, having a stable long term relationship without marriage is a viable alternative and it allows you to grow into adulthood with less commitment and more autonomy.
Depends on your life goals. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. But for most people, if you are in a long term relationship and marriage isn't on the horizon then you may want to examine your relationship.
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Anonymous
10 d
Relationships, dating, marriage, and girlfriend are all myths. You will discover this in the end.
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loveslongnails | 154 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Guru
11 d
Worth it? Sure, if that's what you both want. Here's some info: unmarried.org
It's worth it for the guy, but not the girl. Her biological clock is ticking and she needs to get as much of a hold on a guy as possible who will provide for her and the kids before it ticks out. Guys have nothing to loose by not being married.
Me and my girlfriend have been together for more than 10 years now. Don't feel the need to get married, as it would only bring in the government and set of rules etc etc.
We are together because we want to, any other thing doesn't matter.
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Anonymous
10 d
of course, many people are not that religious and/or do not put much into getting married. You are surely bound together by other things if you have been together many years. And you can even be legally bound without marriage, and then it can be seen as just a celebration of love for some.
No, I don’t want to be a GIRLFRIEND forever. If he doesn’t want to marry me when both of us are ready after some time then I am done with wasting my time in this relationship.
My best friend and her boyfriend have been a couple for 25 years with no desire to be married, although they live together and in the state I live in they are considered as a common law marriage.
Depends on the person and their beliefs. for me its if you can't see yourself married to this person 10 years from now then why are we even dating
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sheikalana | 68 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Guru
10 d
I plan on getting married in the future. If I meet a guy and he tells me he doesn't want to get married then I'll just move on I don't have time to waste my time when I already know we're not in the same page.
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TheUniqueOne96 | 86 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Guru
11 d
Yes, especially if they're a none-religious couple.
Marriage seems pointless like that, I mean all that money on one day, like it's a no from me.
I've never seen the point. I know a few people who aren't married and they've been together forever. I think many times they knew one another already for years without being together.
I honestly think it depends on you and your partner. Some people want to get married and others don’t. I would argue that being in a long term relationship would definitely mean that you are married in your heart. There are people who have been together for years and never have marriage cross their minds. People don’t necessarily need to get married just to prove that they love each other and want to be together. Marriages nowadays seems like a joke anymore.
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just_a_potato | 55 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Yoda
10 d
If you're basically living as a married couple why not get married? It makes me think bad things about one of the partners like there's something behind it. Maybe I'm being cynical.
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OddBeMe | 98 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Guru
11 d
Sure, marriage is just a slip of paper and some tax incentives. If you can’t commit to someone that’s an issue.
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Adam1978 | 60 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Yoda
11 d
That is the best kind of relationship in my opinion.
Marriage is a lot more than just a piece of paper. Yes, when you get married the state does treat your relationship differently, but that's not what makes it important. If marriage was an entirely private affair I don't think it would be and less important than if it being recognized by the state. The marriage vows are an outwardly expression of an official declaration that you love someone enough that you are committed to them through thick and thin even when things get hard. If your long term partner doesn't want to make those vows I think it's a strong indication that they're only loving and committed to the relationship at a lukewarm level.
MzAsh | 74 opinions shared on Marriage & Weddings topic.
Guru
11 d
Don’t be a wife to a boyfriend, I say.
But it really depends on how you measure your value and structure your relationship.
I agree that the big expensive party traditionally correlated with marriage isn't needed, but I think the indication of commitment is needed (or at least needed for a lot of people if they're going to be committed for the long haul.) The marriage vows are an outwardly expression of an official declaration that you love someone enough that you are committed to them through thick and thin even when things get hard. If your long term partner doesn't want to make those vows I think it's a strong indication that they're only loving and committed to the relationship at a lukewarm level. If my husband hadn't been interested in making those vows with me I would not have stayed with him. It would have been an indication that he wasn't as committed, devoted, and (quite frankly) loving to me as I am to him.
I do agree that the big fancy party associated with marriage isn't necessary. There are plenty of people who get married at a very inexpensive version of that party. There are others who don't even have that party at all. They just elope at a courthouse or a local church. However, I do think that the commitment vows of marriage are necessary for people who want a partner who is loving and devoted to them at a higher than lukewarm level.
@IronLady6354 That's fair, but I too know people that have been together for at least 3 decades without marriage. Also, there are plenty of people who say the vows of forever when they are perfectly fine with the prospect that they may get divorced and that the marriage is fine for what they want right now but that it may not be forever. Just because you haven't said it in front of a group of people doesn't mean there is a lack of commitment and just because you say it in front of a group of people doesn't mean that they intend on truly staying forever.
I'm not saying divorce isn't a valid option in certain circumstances. I've actually been divorced before. However, I felt I had to get divorced to escape from an abusive situation for me and my girls. I'm sure there are also non abusive situations where divorce is valid. However, I think that the marriage vow adds a lot of strength to the commitment in that the vows rise above a certain lukewarm level of commitment. Saying the vows in front of a bunch of people isn't the most important part. For a lot of people it is a big deal for their loved ones to attend the wedding because it's such a big day, but the people being there isn't what makes the vows powerful. What makes it powerful is that you've made them to each other. There are people who elope and have no guests in their marriage. However, the marriage itself is still important to them because of the vows that were made to one another. I suppose it is possible for two people to be just as committed to each other without the vows, but I feel like making the vows is kind of like signing on the dotted line. It's an official outward manifestation of an inward commitment that you and your partner have to one another. Is it possible to have that same level of commitment without signing, but there's an extra layer of legitimacy that occurs when you do sign. Moreover, I think the majority of times someone wouldn't want to get married (AKA sign on the dotted line of the relationship) has a lot less to do with just not wanting to be bothered with the process (which really doesn't have to be elaborate. People can elope in a church or a courtroom in a a very inexpensive and non-time consuming way) and a lot more to do with not wanting to get bound to one person with that level of commitment. That's fine for them, but there are a lot of people (myself included) who think being with someone willing to reciprocate that level of love and commitment is a big deal.
The fact my husband made those vows with me (my current husband, not my ex husband) adds a huge layer of love and security to our relationship. It means he's vowed to me (and I to him) to be with me through thick and thin and even when things get hard. It's not a "I like being with you right now, but if things get too difficult I'd want to bail" iffy sort of love and commitment. Maybe some people are OK with just having that and that's fine for them, but a lot of other people want something more. And I don't agree that marriage is a lock and chain. Sure, it's a strong commitment, but it's a commitment to someone I really love and want to be with. That strong of a level of love and commitment brings a lot of love, devotion, and happiness. I know (from personal experience) it doesn't always work out, but when it does it's a pretty awesome thing (I also think it works out a lot more often than marriage skeptics think).
@IronLady6354 That's all fair for you, each to their own; all I'm saying is some people make a solid commitment without formal marriage just like others make a solid commitment through marriage. Likewise some go down the path of marriage thinking as of it as a 'for now' option just like some people don't get married because the person they're with is their 'for now' option. You can get people that sit in either camp under both circumstances. But like I say, each to their own.
"some people don't get married because the person they're with is their 'for now' option.". BINGO.
""Likewise some go down the path of marriage thinking of it as a 'for now' option". But Yep! That is true as well! by the way, I hope all of those people die a painful and miserable death. They disgust me more than anything in the world.
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Anonymous10 di keep reading you say through thick and thin and marriage vows and piece of paper well let me tell you, you don't need a piece of paper or marriage vows to stick by someone when times are rough. a few years ago the love of my life almost died and i stood by her all these years before and after that incident and we're not even married. yes i call her my wife but technically she isn't. would i want to marry her yes with all my heart, but at the same time i want to make sure she has an iron clad prenup before hand cause i don't want any of her money not a cent of it nor the house nor anything else she owns. she worked her ass off her whole life for what she has let her keep it. my last will im leaving everything i own to her i have it notorized i'm just trying to get the damn thing out of my fucking safe which i been busting apart for 2 days now prying the damn door off the thing.0|00|0
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Anonymous10 dof course, many people are not that religious and/or do not put much into getting married. You are surely bound together by other things if you have been together many years. And you can even be legally bound without marriage, and then it can be seen as just a celebration of love for some.0|10|0
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