The Psychology of Men Who Are Racially Black Having to Proclaim Their Refusal to Date "Black" Women (Page 2)
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i think the psychology of anyone who proclaims not to date people due to their race should be questioned
Why, Mr. Mad?
Explain yourself, young sir.
www.psychologytoday.com/.../culture-dictates-the-standard-beauty
Culture Dictates the Standard of Beauty
i agree with this but to say that you don't date anyone of a particular race speaks to some mental hang up doesn't it? especially reeks with tinges if not outright overtones of racism
And how is that young sir? We have talked for a long time Mad. I thought you knew what racism was.
Is an Italian family racist for wanting their son to marry an Italian woman? Was Kumail's parents racist when their son married a "White" American woman.
What is racism Mad?
Where does culture figure in this equation?
www.khabar.com/.../09_17_People_Family.jpg
a notion you site for black men exlcusively dating white women is white women are a crowning achievement racist to suggest that white women are superior and black women are inferior... is it not?
- the notions you sited in example 5 of your writing all correlate to racist notions
- the notions in 4 of not being like other black people relate to racist notions of what being black is otherwise they would know that them being black doesn't mean they are like all other black people in anyway except for a similar ancestral background
I don't know if that would be considered to be racism. Perhaps a byproduct of racism would be more accurate. My point was that it was internalized self-hatred.
What about a "Black" guy raised in a "White" American neighborhood? He was only exposed to "White" American culture and never anything about "Black" standards for beauty, attractiveness, etc.
So you see what I am saying. It would not be racist if he only dated "White" American women and totally discounted dating women from other cultures or "races"?
This is really important when you talk about cultural prejudices vs racism.
Isn't there one gigantic glaring difference?
i was the black guy raised in a white community exposed primarily to and brought in culture that was probably about 90% white. i may find i have more in common often with a white woman (because of our cultural backgrounds) but to categorically say i will only date white women because they are some sort of trophy (a clear sign that you viewed them as superior), or because of a self hate (a belief that black people are inferior or an assumption that all black people have a characteristic i hate), or i am exception (a belief that am different than all other black people who possess a similar characteristic) all reek of racism to me.
racial prejudice is racism... in my opinion
Mad, your first post said you think the psychology of someone with "racial" dating preferences should be questioned. But now you have kind of taken a tangent.
In this post you cite two different motivations. Cultural affinity and this idea of "White" women being a trophy.
If I am a "Black" man raised in a "Black" community exposed to "Black" culture, would my insistence of dating only "Black" women be racist? Would it be because I consider them to be trophies?
Or could I be seeking a unique cultural connection?
They are far from being one and the same.
i didn't say a preference i said "anyone who proclaims not to date people due to their race" which i was simply echoing the title of your take but removing the black male proclaiming not to date black women but any person of any race proclaming they do not date people of a certain race... that's not a preference. a preference is me preferring women with dark hair but still being open to dating someone who is blonde. someone who does not date people of their own race does not have a preference but rather a hard and fast rule
and that hard and fast rule (whether it be reasons you listed eg. 1,4,5 or others) when talking about racial qualifiers seems to speak of racism to me
Sorry you are right. I omitted the word "proclaims".
I think we have reached an understanding.
Gotta go to lunch.
Thanks man.
enjoy... thought we were in agreement.
This is very interesting.. A nice perspective to look from really. You always goin hard Roland.. LOL..
Haha! I can't explain it. Why am I like this?
I just can't keep a lid on it like most other folks. I just have to open my mouth.
Dude, I got into it with a "White" lady at the bar just the other week arguing over race and culture.
When I hear something I disagree with, I can't shut up.
Aw yeah, I feel you.. I'm the same way.. LOL.. Like sometimes I just feel compelled to challenge that point of view.. Except a lot of times I keep my mouth shut..
There’s one blue account who makes it well-known how much he hates black women. Was this perhaps directed at him?
There were actually several. But yes, I think I know who you are speaking of.
Hmm, dime a dozen really. Such a tiresome perspective. I do wish they would become self-aware.
Well, we can wish. But in truth, we know it probably won't happen. It is a wonder after all "Black" people have been through, that we have any awareness at all.
"When the great novel of the American Indian is finally written, all of the "White" people will be American Indians. . . and all the American Indians will be ghosts."
Sherman Alexie
My wife has seen this over and over. What really annoyed her is that these selfsame men would criticize her for dating white men (and even more for marrying one).
I don't know if they would. But one thing that is hilarious. You do have the type that are actually mad when a "White" women refuses to date them. . .
BECAUSE THEY DON'T DATE "BLACK" GUYS. . .
That is absolutely hilarious!
My wife has a friend who will never date white guys. Doesn't offend me.
As for "if they would", yes, my wife did encounter that. Black men who wanted nothing to do with Black women but were offended when Black women might want to date or marry a White man...
Like I said, I have not encountered that type. I can only point out the type I met here and in life. I cannot give you experiences I never had. The "Black" men I met who dated out exclusively only had issues with "White" women who refused to date them because they were "Black".
Like @ManOnFire.
He can explain it to you.
This is close to the type of "Black" guy I met in real life who dates out exclusively.
I agree with most of what you said. Sometimes it's difficult to fight your own prejudices but at the end of the day you like who you like.
There are people who just refuse to date within their own race because they just want something different. I notice that in the Asian community, Asian women want white men and in the black community the athletes all want white women or anything non-black. In my opinion, the only racial community that sticks most with their race is probably middle eastern.
Okay. I am not here claiming that we can rid ourselves of self-hatred or these influences. And of course, there are people who may honestly have preferences. But there is something totally different about a "Black" man who claims to not like "Black" women, then instead of going about his business, needs to create a thread, a blog, a video, etc. justifying his choices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqwl_gTaO8k
This is as disrespectful as they come.
I think it's true of any race who won't date within their own race. I think it's mostly just preferences... even if they are just physical and not emotional or psychological or cultural.
The video you posted can be true of any race... there's a couple of people within any race that can make the race look bad as a whole. I think that's what the guy is saying. He's saying ignore the bad girls and not shit-storming the whole race.
No it is not. There is no such thing as a "White" male or "White" woman starting a thread at GaG explaining why they don't date the opposite sex of their culture because of some negative stereotypes or because they are not attractive.
Period.
There are... there's literally hundreds of thousands of threads on GAG and you'll find some that race bash.
No, I will not find them. There is only the same disturbed guy who pretends to be a woman sometimes, claiming that he only dates "Black" guys. When he is himself, he claims all "White" women only date "Black" men.
That shows you just how disturbed he is.
Nah, Middle Eastern men love women of all colors. The issue in the Middle East is tradition. They are only allowed to marry their own kind most of the time. They will bounce out any time they can get away with it. Extremely high peer pressure problems from very involved immediate and extended family members. Middle Eastern women have it even worse in that they are expected to not even consider it. I've dated a Syrian/Iranian/Afghani and had a Palestinian try to ask me out. Both recently migrated from the Middle East.
@wolfcat87 Uhm.. .
what?
Cultural differences rather than personal preferences.
@wolfcat87 What does that even mean?
My point to you is that you are the one who said "Black" culture is among the most racist, negative, and backwards cultures you have ever seen.'
So why would you now claim that "Black" men who refuse to date any "Black" women teach that same negative "Black" culture and history?
"Black women" must straighten scalp hair, pluck body hair, utilise feminine hygiene lubes/sprays.
Black men love the light skinned female, and lust for the pink color omnipresent "European" female.
Black men wholly desire to inseminate white women subliminally for ultimate conquest.
Black men boast a white mate.
White women "think" - have been brainwashed to believe black males desire them for their minds... I call bullshit.
Now, before you call racist (you are programmed to shame the TRUTH) I dated more than one black, aka african-american female and lovemaking wasn't pleasurable universally - just acknowledging my humble experiment. The engagement was taboo, and somewhat curious, plus mutual friends seemed uncomfortable (possibly due to their own cultural mores' but I digress)
Love is Love.
The relationship with the love of my life - culturally diverse Asian descent (now you are really looking at established "racism" in the culture) and I do not give a damn.
And I don't care that you don't care. You can't make up a bunch of silly racist nonsense and claim this is why "Black" men don't date "Black" women. "Black" women don't have to "straighten" their hair. My last girlfriend wore her hair natural. She was cute. Now, I won't claim that she was beautiful. Because her looks are not what attracted me. We met online. And she was simply the most brilliant mind I had ever been exposed to.
When we met, I found out why. She worked as a senate staff to the late great Paul Wellstone.
cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/.../...820609.jpg
She helped to write his speeches. Her IQ was 157. She was a scientist at the University of Maryland.
And I only am talking about the black men who claim they cannot date "Black" women at all. Interracial dating is fine. Like you. . . I have done it myself.
This was certainly a bunch of mindless, racist drivel. XD Black women don't have to do anything that white women don't do. I'm not programmed to shame any truth, but this was ridiculously far from any truth. Also, no matter what color woman you date, lovemaking will not be the same from woman to woman. How silly. Same for dating men.
Do you think this is/could be a regional thing OP? Certainly black culture from New England, Appalachia, The Midwest, The South, The Great Plains, The Mountains, Texas, The Southwest, Cali and Cascadia must all be different. Some of the things you mentioned seem to be mostly specific to the American south.
Overall though, this was a really well thought out take. Good sociology present here.
Well, I am in the mid-west. And I have traveled a great deal around the U. S.
But I want to make something perfectly clear. I am not talking about the majority of "Black" men. I am talking about a tiny loud fraction. Most "Black" men have no issues including "Black" women in their dating pool. In fact, most "Black" men believe "Black" women are the standard for feminine beauty.
I am not even talking about the majority of "Black" men who date outside of the community. Even I have done that.
I am talking about a fraction of specific minority. The "Black" men who date out exclusively and who have to make sure everyone knows that and knows why.
Usually that why has to do with a bunch of nonsensical racist bull.
I wonder if looking at this through the prism of social class as well as race would yield some insights. I read somewhere once that black men who are higher earners are less likely to have non-black partners.
That's probably true. But this isn't about guys like Jamie Foxx. Dated "Black" women on and off his entire life. . . but now is serious with Katie Holmes. This isn't about icons like Sidney Poitier, or James Earl Jones, guys who were married all their lives to "White" women. This isn't about "Black" men who exclusively date "White" or non-"Black" women.
This is about why certain "Black" men feel the need to let everyone know about their dating choices which are exclusively non-"Black".
So maybe these guys are better off financially? Perhaps. It is something to think about.
I've done a lot of interracial dating myself, and, judging from some of the comments made by others, I would hazard a guess that dating interacially in some cases is thought to signal higher status/having something on the ball in order to persuade a woman of a different race to date you. That isn't the way I look at it, but it's my guess as to why these black men are making a big deal of their dating preference for non-black women.
Well, that's the thing. You have this group, claiming that they are not racial or racist. Yet, the firs thing you learn about them is that they are married to or dating a non-"Black" woman.
I remember meeting a guy from the air force. Within the first two minutes, I had to know he was married to a german woman.
I was married to a "Black" woman at the time. So you already know what I told him.
Embarrassed him in front of his entire staff.
Rates of interracial dating and marriage are especially high for US military and ex-military.
Really? I have not seen a study about military personnel.
But again, this is not about interracial marriage.
This is about;
i2.wp.com/.../rickey-smiley-son-gif.gif
I think a lot of black guys with a military background fit the description in this Take.
Hmmmm. . .
okay. Well, I have run into two brothers from the military. One physical hit his wife. Both, of course only dated "White" women.
There you go...
I really don’t have much to say other than I agree 😂👍🏾
I did this take such a long time ago. And a lot of "Black" men here. . . or maybe I should say black men, have blocked me here at GaG.
But that is to be expected.
Well... no one likes to be exposed I guess 😂
You were very on the nose, in summary it’s just a lot of self hate low sense of worth
A lot of people in a lot of different groups speak loud and often about whatever they think makes them special or puts them "above".
In reality, it's insecurity. They're seeking validation because they're unsure of themselves.
Brilliant observation.
Yeah.. You make some good points, but the whole "because racism/slavery" is pretty wrong.
The fact that you never addressed the possibility of black women being the least attractive race makes it seem like you're making excuses for them.
Socioeconomically, they're statistically the worst group to date. They often have foul attitudes. They're the most obese and generally least attractive. There's of course exceptions to these rules, but this is true for the most part.
If overnight black women suddenly became petite, educated, stable, healthy, and had friendly demeanors, men would flock to them at the same rate as white women with the same traits.
You didn't read the take. I dismantled that argument first. I wanted to rebut common misconceptions of these men.
And no, I don't accept the possibility that "Black" women are the least attractive. If you do, that's on you. I am not pretending social norms have "Black" women at the top in terms of beauty. I am explaining the psychology of "Black" men who proclaim their dating choices that exclude "Black" women.
These men who talk about these standards of beauty or negative behaviors/beliefs are just fooling themselves. And I am not trying to tell them they can't exercise their "freedoms". I am just offering up my rebuttal because the non-"Black" women who engage these type of men need to know they are mentally unstable.
I finally stopping taking it personal a few years ago when I realized that most of those guys grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood.
So maybe that's who they feel more comfortable with esp if they were adopted.
I don't know about that. I know some that grew up in "Black" communities. I really think it is due to a lack of effort put into how "Black" men deal with negative racial stereotypes and the negative view of "Black" culture from the greater society.
True, there are some like that. I feel like those guys feel like they made it and now have access to other races
Yeah access. and it is a symbol of validation. They are unlike us other poor bastard who could not get a "White" woman.
Straight. . . weird.
Lol which is a lie, anyone could get another race as long as there's an opportunity. Then again not too many people want the trailer trash type
Lol which is a lie, anyone could get another race as long as there's an opportunity. Then again not too many people want the trailer trash type
Black guys hit on me all the time, they are really into white girls for some reason. Then black girls give you the stink eye!
I don't have an issue with "Black" men hitting on you. The point of my "take" is that there are some "Black" men who do not date "Black" women at all because of self-esteem issues, self-confidence issues, or because of negative racist stereotypes of "Black" women and/or "Black" culture.
You can choose to date "Black" men or dismiss us. That's your problem. But if you do choose to date a "Black" man, date one who is confident in himself and his culture. Be sure he isn't trying to use you as some symbol of status, etc. because that could lead to some real issues in your relationship.
As for "Black" women giving you the stink eye, could that just be your imagination? I have "hit" on "White" women before and I can say I didn't notice "White" men staring at me.
I've seen that a few times in college and it left me scratching my head.
Thank you for that observation.
My question is Y? Y one black discriminating another the n what should I think when white does it.
I am not really sure I understand your question. But I guess you are asking if "Blacks" discriminate against themselves, why is it such a big deal when "Whites" do it?
From my perspective it isn't.
I have never claimed that "Whites" or non-"Blacks" should like or respect me or even my culture. That's their decision. I only claim the right to like and respect my own culture free from interference.
koshinbupal.files.wordpress.com/.../...seph-fb.jpg
@opurba Thankyou. That is exactly the same thing I was telling him.
Wow. I applaud you for this post, continue to speak out.
This is an American thing...
Absolutely!
False, it's an international thing. I've spoken with other black girls in nerd groups for PoC women from Europe and Australia who go through similar situations.
@xXiTacoXx I don't think you understand quite what the issues are, here.
@xXiTacoXx Really? African males in other nations make the same racist weird complaints about African women? If true, I will find that fascinating and i really would like you to pm me with some information.
I mean, that would be the ultimate self-hating freak in my opinion. In America, we are bombarded with negative imagery of the "Black" experience. So much so, it is even a wonder many "Black" people hold any positive views of each other or our collective experience. But to see that imagery affecting African males in other nations. . . I mean, I don't even know what to say about that.
@JimRSmith, why do you say that?
@RolandCuthbert Self hate in Africa is huge too. It's why there's a booming skin bleaching industry over there. You forget they had to deal with colonization and they also consume quite a bit of American media. Some of my family member on my moms side are from Ghana and they tell me about the constant ads they see to convince them to brighten their skin, and how quite a few guys want to go abroad to get with a white girl. It's honestly sad.
@xXiTacoXx Well, I have run into some of this before. There is a Nigerian here who is not at all comfortable in his own skin.
But I run into some African immigrants here in the States. And one thing is for certain, they are more at peace with themselves and with their culture than most African-Americans.
I gave up on dating black men since we all are loud, fat, uneducated, stud looking bitches to them.
I have tried to tell "Black" men about how much it hurts for them to voice these negative stereotypes but most here at GaG don't seem to understand.
I tried. . . really, really hard.
It is not just on GaG, its everywhere. Who cares about us?
Negative Stereotypes from people inside and outside of our race gives me less hope for the future. Sometimes I hate being a Black Woman.
It is not. It is not at forums dedicated to "Black" culture. Destee. com, theroot, at the extraordinary journey of a "Black" nerd, at the cocoalounge, the somalispot, etc.
In truth, you sisters will probably have to leave much of the current generation of "Black" men behind. We did a bad job collectively of raising them and giving them the tools to understand their connection to their culture.
I would advise "Black" women to move on, marry men who love you regardless of race, but carry the story of our culture and history on with you.
You appear to be the only ones who can.
www.salon.com/.../
Oh, I should explain the link.
"Black" women are now the most educated group in the United States.
https://www.good.is/articles/black-women-education
The National Center for Education Statistics released a new suite of college enrollment stats; its findings are remarkable. Namely, there’s a higher percentage of African-American women enrolled in college than any other group. This 9.7 percent enrollment rate tops Asian women (8.7 percent), white women (7.1 percent) and white men (6.1 percent).
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Please, explain exactly what I wrote that proves that I have no idea about culture or that I am confused about race...
I am defending his original post. He said that most black women do not go after educated men, they go after the tougher/cooler seeming men. He is correct. To be fair though, many white and Hispanic women are guilty as well. Women are not always logical in love. I watch normally intelligent women get into trouble all of the time by picking the wrong men who lead them down the wrong roads.
Because of this, I never had any problems tracking down and dating an intelligent and educated black male. There just was never much competition. Now, trying to date the hot tough guys flunking out of school? They were always covered in girls. Again, this is in many races, but it gets more concentrated as you go through various cultures. Black culture promotes going for the wrong type of men. White culture really pushes against it hard.
If I brought home a cute flunky to my black side of my family, they would grit their teeth and accept it. If I brought home a flunky to the white side of my family, I would become the black sheep for a ridiculously long time and they would constantly push the relationship apart. It took me 10 years to work off my last mistake with a guy with them! Even though they would rate high in this category as well due to cultural influences, most Hispanics are likely to give a girl a hard time when she makes mistakes with men as well. Some of my best friends are Mexican. They can be really rough on me if they think I'm messing up with a guy. they do not let you live it down either. So, race and culture certainly do overlap. When most of the people of a color follow the culture belonging to that race in an area, statistics certainly will follow certain trends. It's not racist to call people on those trends.
Black women (and men) do beat their children more than any other ethnicity in the U. S. As a person who's studied human and child development, among other things, I have often had to argue against physical punishment in children. I know the stats. 85% of black children are beaten using physical punishment. More severely and more often than any other ethnicity. They are punished far worse by their parents for mild crimes than their peers of other colors. Over 170 studies around the world that have lead to a consensus in the fact that corporal punishment leads to severe issues for children. Lower intelligence, higher rates of mental illness, increased aggression, increased sneaking and lying to avoid punishments, loss of reasoning abilities, etc. It's bad enough that it's been banned in over 35 countries.
75% of Hispanics, 65% of whites, and 45% of Asians beat their children in the U. S. Look at those numbers and think about who's most successful vs who has issues. Starts at home.
So, he is right again, not racist. The stats agree.
Another cultural issue is that aggression is more accepted in the black communities in the U. S. Fights were allowed every day in my schools and neighborhood in 80% black Atlanta. When I moved to a 95% white area, there was a zero tolerance policy. First fight was a 10 day suspension. Second fight is an automatic expulsion. So, yes, white women are far more likely to figure out other ways to handle problems. They were beaten less at home, and they were not allowed to assault or be assaulted in school. Hence, they were given better conflict resolution tools early on
Again, these are generalized statements based on stats. Does he mean every single black woman is like this or every white? No. So, don't be offended by his statement. Be offended that you so easily accept these truths in black culture while instead choosing to be offended when people who don't like it walk away instead of supporting it. Kudos to him for breaking the cycle
To anonymous "Black" lady. I know how you feel. Sometimes, I hate being a "Black" man. Truthfully, these feelings are apart of most non-"White" experiences in America. And the thing is, "Black" women have no problems expressing these conflicted emotions when it comes to "Black" culture and the "Black" community. "Black" men, as you can see, normally just use the denial method for dealing with their issues. So their problems with their own self-image and self-esteem manifest in different ways. That's why you get "brothas" professing their dating preferences as a way to feel better about themselves.
I am not optimistic when it comes to the "Black" community. Optimism would seem to indicate I could tell you about some facts or some evidence to support my conclusions.
But I am forever hopeful. .
:D
And my reasons for hope.
Black women are the most educated group in the U. S.
www.independent.co.uk/.../...p-in-us-a7063361.html
static.independent.co.uk/.../black-women.jpg
@wolfcat87 No he isn't correct. And you don't know a thing about "Black" women. Have you dated one?
I have dated "Black" women my entire life. And I have never met one who told me she preferred a brotha who was uneducated. I told you this several times. My last girlfriend is a scientist. She worked as a senate staffer for the late great Paul Wellstone. She helped to write his speeches in the areas of her considerable expertise in the medical, genetics, and biology fields.
Her IQ was 157 and her published research would put you and any these fake men to shame.
And she was easily the most brilliant person, "Black" or "White", male or female, I had ever had the pleasure of meeting.
@wolfcat87
"I am defending his original post. He said that most black women do not go after educated men, they go after the tougher/cooler seeming men. He is correct. :
I call bullshit on that statement. Most? Like you know every black women in the US.
@Anonymous lady, are you originally from a country outside of the U. S?
And I wish to clear up something about @wolfcat87. She is not a "Black" woman. She actually identifies as being "Mixed". She only pretends to be a "Black" woman on GaG for the purposes of critiquing "Black" culture. Traditionally "White" supremacist viewpoints have always had this theory that if you can get the people within non-"White" cultures to come out in support of the notion of "White" supremacy, it legitimizes these racist nonsensical conclusions about "Black" women.
Please understand, standard everyday, African-American women are nothing like her. In fact, they are the creators and carriers of African-American Culture.
Without them, our culture would not even exist.
theundefeated.com/.../
espntheundefeated.files.wordpress.com/.../...n.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAiuvdUzMCU&t=442s
SO? what about the stereotypes Indian man have
@Boband I can't speak to Indian male stereotypes. I can only get an understanding of that situation when Indian males stand up and talk about the stereotypes they have to deal with.
You see, I am not a person capable of representing every culture. I can only represent one. . . African-American Culture. Why not create a "Take" talking about this subject? No one else can make this argument for Indian males.
The problem with Apu. . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGzvEqBvkP8
Most black men that date black women want a light skinned black woman. Black men love the mixed race girls with light skin and will claim them as black. Look at Tyrese.
Nah that comment makes no sense. Tyrese is one messed up brother. He needs professional help. "Black" is "Black", light-skinned or not. I have met light-skinned people who think they are a special kind of "Black" person. I have met light-skinned people who think they are not "Black" enough.
It is a mixed bag. I think "Black" folks need to stop throwing stones at each other. We are all "Black" none of us are "better" than the other. We are just different shades and express our "Blackness" in different ways.
What if they just don't estethically like black women? I have a white friend who exclusively dates black women.
I am sure "White" women would care less, since they are the crowning goal of males of every culture.
But again, this isn't just about the "Black" males who date out exclusively. There is a psychology for those who need to make sure that everyone knows they have a "White" woman.
Meh, I think you are overthinking it. Maybe that might be true for some, but for the major part, aside for the skin, the one thing that identify a race is the bone structure of the face, which makes me guess is what someone might like or not.
How could I be over thinking it? Their mother has the same bone structure, their grandmother, cousins, sisters, and perhaps even their daughters.
I am not saying you could understand. It isn't like you have created a threat dedicated to why you won't date Italian women, right?
Well, I have a black friend who doesn't like black women, except for those who are incredibly hot. So my assumption is that he is not some kind of self-hating weird, just that is more into white women.
And we don't have that much
of black servants history here, so that rule wouldn't apply to him either way.
I don't think my "take" is about "Black" guys who are more into "White" women.
Or "Black" guys who date women from varied cultures and backgrounds.