What do you think about the Christ myth theory?



The basic idea is that Jesus began as a revelatory preexistent being like the angel moroni (Mormonism) and the angel Gabriel (islam).
I know the video is a little long, but I highly encourage watching it as I think it's a great introduction to the theory, and if you find religion fun and interesting it is well worth the watch. Richard Carrier is an incredibly intelligent and eloquent man.


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Most Helpful Girl

  • I'm not a Christian. and I gave the video a look.

    I don't like how this guy kept defaulting to "read my book to fact check me", or how he attacked the sanity and credibility of Christian scholars as validation for his own agreement.

    It's hard for me to take anyone seriously when their only validation is the invalidation of others.

    But I will say that his theory makes sense. Not saying that I believe it, because even though I walked away from Christianity at age 14, it never crossed my mind that people like Moses and Abraham weren't or couldn't be real people. Disproving their existence in a basis for disproving Jesus.

    To me, it makes more sense to assume that every major world religions has a version of the "great flood" story, because it actually happened. Maybe not the grand scale of covering the *entire* earth, but enough that everyone knew about it.

    I personally think, and could easily believe that Jesus was indeed a real person, even though I don't believe in him as the savior or son of any one true God.

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    • Cool, the most interesting response I've had on the question hun!
      He says that fundamentalist scholars aren't to be trusted because many/ most of them have to actually sign confessions of faith that state they literally can't question the historicity of the bible. There have been cases where professors have lost their jobs because they mentioned that the handling serpents portion of mark was a forgery.

      He's shown that every detailed study of the methodology used in Jesus studies is fallacious, or fallaciously applied. He's a brilliant man, and if you are interested in the subject I highly recommend watching his other videos... Let me know if you have any questions in particular and I would love to address them!

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    • Well the aeser likely had no effect on ancient jewish belief (they didn't interact) but other gods certainly did.

Have an opinion?

What Girls Said 3

  • Palestine and Bethelum is a proof to Jesus existence.

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    • How? and do you even have evidence that Bethlehem existed at the times of Jesus' supposed birth? I've heard that it's questionable.

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    • @ladsin Bethlehem is evidence for His existence. You say no?

    • @DarkBlack9 how is Bethlehem evidence for Jesus' existence anymore than NY for spider man's?

  • They have archeology / architecture and hard core evidence that the Bible is true, however, you would never find it in the media. Seek & ye shall find.

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    • They have some evidence for various things, but specifically in regards to Jesus we have nothing. Can you provide some examples?

    • Where do I find this?
      If you say "Google" Then i could find "evidence" for literally any claim.

    • @djvtech Well google isn't evidence XP it can help you find evidence for sure, but "google said so" is no more evidence than "my gram gram said so."

  • the earth is flat with a dome
    no debate for this anymore GOD exist

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What Guys Said 16

  • I don't believe there is any scientific evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ the person of Nazareth.
    Many atheists whom I like to call "nice-atheists" like to say there's a high possibility that a man named Jesus lived around that time as a carpenter. But probability and evidence are 2 different things.
    There's a high probability that extraterrestrial life exists, but until we have evidence of it we cannot say that they exist and we sure as hell can't say they've visited Earth.

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    • I agree. I mean Jesus was the most common name at the time (or at least one of the most common) so there were certainly hundreds of Jesus' running around. There's just a question of whether or not there was one that started this particular Jewish resurrection cult.

  • Sorry it's a long video man and I watch a lot of long videos lol. If you mean the idea that the historical Jesus didn't exist than i'm not sure. Hitchens seemed to think Jesus didn't exist amongst other sources iv'e heard. Than again a lot of biblical scholars seem to think otherwise.

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    • Basically. If you're interested in religious vids i'd watch it, if you don't care then, it is what it is lol

  • Proofs depend on what people believe.
    A person who believe that, Jesus was a merely human being, does not need any evidence to prove his claim.(Jesus existence).

    As a Muslim, lack of proofs about Jesus existence was caused by
    -Jesus was a prophet who had been sent only to the children of israel (jews), not to all mankind. He had nothing to do with other nations.
    -Jesus used miracles to prove that he was a prophet, and miracles were only to those who saw them.
    -Jesus was an oppressed Prophet.

    But since all Christian believe that Jesus is God, they have to provide more evedences, and answer some questions to back Jesus's existence. such as Why didn't he send messages to all the kings those days?
    Why didn't he have meetings with them?
    Why did't he visit any of the famous capitals those days?

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    • On the first point no... The Christ Myth theory is against the theory of minimal historicity (perhaps an apocalyptic prophet.

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    • The Myth Hypothesis not The Myth Theory.

    • Well sure. For the sake of clarity we can call it that. It doesn't make a difference to me. Lol

  • He has been debunked by mainstream historians and the abundance of evidence he completely overlooks to attempt to be controversial. Just an attempt at wishful thinking

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    • Like whom? The main arguments I hear against him are simply citations of the consensus.

      Give me an example of this evidence.

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    • can you add the quote by Richard Carrier Xl

    • nice video by the way

  • Among all people living in Palestine back then, there were many named Joshua. The existence of a rabbi Joshua is probable. (Probably even more than one)

    Did that rabbi say and do what's in the Bible? Why should we even believe that? The gospels were written a generation later at least.

    the-militant-atheist.org/images/zip-references.png

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  • Didn't watch to know its bullshit because the majority of nowadays serious Historians already agree that a man named Jesus actually existed.

    At least, there are more proofs that He existed than Socrates, for example, and everybody accepts the existence of Socrates

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  • Im an atheist and I think his theory is ridiculous.

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    • Cool, what in particular makes you think so? Did you watch the video, or read any of his writings (just to see if you know what the theory is).

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    • The Jesus that most christians think of, almost certainly is a fictionalised mashup of various messianic figures from different religions. But was this particular Jewish guy, Yeshua Bar Yosef, son of Miryam and fathered by a roman centurian named Pantera, a real guy? Very probably, in my opinion. Separating the fact from the fiction, has much more chance of being successful if you look at actual sources and decide their legitimacy based on something other than mathematics.

      A jewish kid who had daddy issues because his biological father was a roman centurion, I can totally see getting involved in the Essene cult, while his twin did his own thing with his own issues.

      If the elder twin gets crucified as a rebel, I can absolutely see how political operators would move on the twin, giving him a role to step into. Letting people who knew Jesus before his "death" fail to recognise him at first.

      I can also see the "post-death" Jesus (Thomas) having a different more violent message.

    • Well there were obviously lots of "Jesus'" at the time, the question is if there was one who started this religion and I'm aware of no reliable evidence to firmly ground the belief in one.
      What sources in particular are you thinking of?

  • I think no. I think he's too similar to many other spiritual beliefs both before and after him. He is a character, nearer to the end of a long line of characters that all share the same archetypal identify.

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  • seems like a very intelligent man that is starting with an answer and forcing his way forward... check out a case for Christianity counters some of his main points... the author started out an atheist

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    • He actually did the opposite. Did you watch the video?
      I don't care much what the person believes, so much as their argument and rationale.

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    • yes atheist that study Jesus sometimes come to those conclusion but the mass of historians do not because of all the eye witness accounts that are testified... and its not normal for someone to lie about something and keep with that story when their life is on the line... all the apostles were killed with the chance to recant

    • The majority of historians do believe the gospels are myths...

  • Jesus existed! Even people from other religions believe that he actually existed. Israel proves his existence! All these Atheists who speak bullshit make people believe in their sucking theories. Oh! Bitch please. Jesus's clothes were found, a part of his cross, his blood was taken for experiments. Don't believe everything which you hear from people with nerdy intelligent looks, coz internally they're #1 jerks!

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    • Oh my... and illuminati got his blood right?

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    • Jet fuel can't melt dank memes

    • If ya try with faith you can melt dank memes with just car fuel. No need of jet fuel. Bang!

  • Unlike the Old Testament Jesus was written about pretty soon after his supposed life. Most historians believed he really existed.

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    • Well the gospels were written within ~40 years, but they're pretty wildly deliberately fictional.

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    • Is taking something on faith the most reliable thing to do when it can lead to any conclusion? Hindus take it on faith that vishnu exists, muslims take in on faith that Allah exists.

    • @djvtech With religion there is no other way.

  • it's rejected by mainstream scholarship.

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    • That's obvious... the question is why? Is there significant evidence to show that the hypothesis is false, or is it an apologetic stance (as most in the field of Jesus studies are Christian).
      It appears to me to be mostly the latter. There is some argument over the paulean epistles, but really that's very scant evidence.

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    • No, but I feel like you're being intellectually dishonest so I'll bow out of the conversation now. Have a good day.

    • huh? crap! how?

  • We know for a fact that Jesus existed.

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    • How so? I get that the assertion is made, I don't see the strength of the evidence that leads to such a conviction.

    • Most obviously, the testimonies of Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny the Younger, St. Paul's letters, and the four Gospels written between 40-100 A. D.

    • Tacitus and josephus both appear to be later christian interpolations (ie the forgery of the testimonium flavianum.)
      Pliny the younger was writing around the 80s ad and verifies only what some christians believed at the time.

      The four gospels are not and don't claim to be eye witness accounts, and they're wildly deliberately fictional and appear to be mostly, if not totally, allegories. Additionally the gospels were written around the 70s AD which is 40 years after the upposed events, and they obviously have a theological reason for writing them (making them not the best sources.)

      Lastly Paul is a good source, but when you read paul you only hear about a revelatory, divine, preexistent being who we can only know about through revelations and scripture. (Gal. 1:11-12, 15-17, etc) He does not talk about Jesus' earthly ministry, having disciples, etc.

  • If someone like Jesus existed, I would want to meet the person, but I refuse to bow down to anything

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  • Jesus is a plagiarized copy of Horus, the Egyptian god of the sun from 1800 years before it became "real"

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  • Never thought about it.

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