@hknmhmn4 Somebody didn't read the entire post. Or understand it.
@hknmhmn4 Evidently not, otherwise you wouldn't have posted what you did.
“Because I don't think that 'jesus' existed“I’ve posted it to your this comment
@hknmhmn4 Exactly, you have not understood the post.
Eh sorry. My English is poor a little but generally I haven’t understood what you meant
There are very powerful documents and records regarding the life of Jesus. If you have a stronger proof / document that Jesus did not live, you can refute the argument that Jesus lived.
@hknmhmn4 How the hell can you acknowledge you did not understand the point, then continue trying to refute the same non-existent argument?
I really get hard at understanding your English. What do you mean
@hknmhmn4 I said you didn't understand the point, and you agreed.You are now back, 2 hours later responding with the same shit to the same point you still don't understand.
I said that I have a poor English only
@hknmhmn4 Then learn better English before engaging these sorts of discussions. Stick to simpler topics until your fluent enough to both convey and understand complex points better, otherwise you're just wasting my time and yours.
I meant: I didn’t agree with you about anything. I only said that my English is poor a little.
@hknmhmn4 Then you're just wrong, then - Because you haven't understood the point. I am /telling/ you, you are responding to an argument I have not made.
“As for jesus, I find the topic of whether or not a real jesus existed interesting. Because I don't think that 'jesus' existed - I think a real historical faith healer by that name existed who the jesus of the bible would later be based on might have existed, but that's not the same as the character of the bible having existed.“Well, where’s your source/evidence about this claim then
Where is your claim mentioned?
@hknmhmn4 The whole article.
“a real historical faith healer by that name existed who the jesus of the bible would later be based on might have existed”It isn’t mentioned anywhere
@hknmhmn4 You don't think Jesus existed?
You already know the answer
@hknmhmn4 Then why'd you ask me that?
@hknmhmn4 You didn't understand?
I really have no idea about what are you trying to mean
@hknmhmn4 Exactly!Instead of asking for clarification or even acknowledging when I tell you you have not understood the point you are responding to, you have proceeded to try and have an exchange with us both just talking past each other - which is why I have instead just been fucking with you for the past hour.
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@hknmhmn4 As I said, maybe Jesus was a real person, maybe just a mythical figure. We don't have the certainty that Jesus existed in the same way we are certain that other classical people lived, like Caesar, Augustus, Nero, Alexander the Great, Ovid, Pliny the Elder and Younger, Virgil, Cleopatra, etc. existed.
It’s like saying “maybe Muhammad or Pythagoras was a real person, maybe a mythical figure.”
@hknmhmn4 No, it's not. The lives of Pythagoras and of Muhammed are well documented. Jesus life is recorded only in fantastical narratives written years after his death. Jesus is unmentioned by any records created during his purported lifetime.
Actually, that may be true -- the documentation of Pythagoras is sketchy. So what? No one is telling me that Pythagoras was god.
Also Muhammad life is recorded after years his death. lol
I'd label myself agnostic and I don't cringe at all. I think what most have a problem with is that many many Christians aggressively push their religion onto other people..
@Marilynjuana Yes. Because any non-Christian person doesn’t push their religion/ideology aggressively onto other people. Let’s look at Soviet Union
Exactly. That's the kind of thing they expect from me. They expect me to be preachy and judgmental, and I can't even be mad about it because there are so many Christians out there who are. I try to just be a good example, but I'm also so off the beaten path for a Christian that I can't help but wonder if maybe I'm a bad example too.Alternately, I get very tired of being judged. I work in a field that's based in biological science. My peers in that field seem to become automatically dismissive of me when they hear that I have religion. Like Jesus cut the power to my ability to science! lol I don't have to disregard science to be religious.
See what atheists did to Christians the last century en.m.wikipedia.org/.../Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union
@hknmhmn4 You're the type of person I am talking about. I think simply using the Soviets as your argument is a bit ridiculous anyway. I am entitled to my opinion, you are entitled to yours. I respect your views and won't push any agenda on you, please give me the same respect back.
@BeyondCuriosity The people who think you are any less in your field thanks to your religion are, in fact, not very knowledgeable. Many Christians rule different fields of science.
@BeyondCuriosity Fun fact, almost all modern science discoveries were made by Christians. lol
@Marilynjuana Yes, I don’t aggressively push anything onto other people. And I dont think that most Christians do it.
@hknmhmn4 Speaking from experience. Your comments here on this forum regarding religion also come off rather pushy. Toodles!
And I have my experiences that atheists are egoistic, self-righteous and hypocrite people but I don’t say it anywhere
@hknmhmn4 Don't take it so personally. I really don't care.
Well, sorry. Maybe I got it wrong, I'm a bit sensitive as they write very bad things about Christians on this forum
@Marilynjuana Like I said before, I understand the stereotype. Walk into just about any church and your going to find a percentage of people who either insist on trying to force feed people their religious views, or can't back their own beliefs with anything but "because the Bible says so". How persuasive an argument can somebody expect that to be to anyone except for maybe another Christian? I think it's also probably very frustrating to an agnostic when Christians insist that they "know" that their god is the one and only god, when "think" or "believe" are the only acceptable words that fit truthfully. I try not to be bothered by that, because I try to understand that not every person is willing to put the beliefs that they were raised with into question. At an early age people tried to program it into me that being unsure about anything we were taught was either sinful or a lack of faith. I see through that kind of thing, but it's not as easy for others.I almost wonder if there's a classification for my faith that I've never heard of, but I think I get along well with agnostics because I don't draw a hard line that what I believe is an uncontested fact. I also believe that the reason for other people worshipping other deity/deities could be that it's all the same being. Maybe this incomprehensible being does what it can to translate itself to humans based on what their culture can accept. That could explain why it is sometimes known by different names or represented by different forms (gender, one god or many, resembling a human or not). How silly would humanity be historically to war with each other, all trying to prove the same being was correct, only to find out they were all correct? Even that is just my hunch though. It's not fact. There's no evidence to prove or disprove it. I just think it's likely to be true based on what it all looks like when I examine it.
@hknmhmn4 In my experience, most PEOPLE, religious or not, are self-righteous and hypocrites. I can't speak for Europe. I don't know what it's like for either of you where you come from. Over here a lot of Christians like to believe that they are persecuted, but they aren't. They're the dominant religion, and probably the most protected group of people in the country. Do they experience prejudice? Absolutely. Other people judge Christian people all the time. They criticize and belittle them, and they are treated unfairly by others based on their faith, but they aren't persecuted. No one is hunting them down and trying to force them to convert. No one is tearing down their churches or forbidding them to pray to God. If anything, a lot of Christian groups feel "persecuted" because people are finally separating church and state, which is one of the core foundations that went into forming this country. That being said, I don't think any president of this country has ever not been Christian. A couple of them did not have a denomination, but every one of them has been Christian. That doesn't sound like persecution of Christians to me. Like I said though, Europe might be different.
Oddly enough, based on where you guys come from, it seems like the influences would be opposite. Not any sort of criticism, just a curiosity. Marilynjuana, do you notice any influence from Russia on religion at all? Hknmhmn4, does the Catholic influence from The Vatican so close by put a lot of pressure on people's faith? Just interested in a perception of things from outside my own part of the world.
I don’t think so, because some people show just bad sides of the Catholic Church. They never shows that the Catholic Church helps the poor, I think that there are bad stereotypes on Vaticanwww.cnbc.com/.../...udget-deficit-report-says.html
@hknmhmn4 Oh no. I agree. The Catholic church, and most churches for that matter, do a lot of good. Maybe pressuring people into religion is a more American concept. That's why I ask.
Well, maybe. But I consider atheism to be the biggest problem of the 21st-century Europe tbh.
@hknmhmn4 I don't find atheism to be a problem at all. I figure God will come to those people when both he and they are ready. I've met a lot of atheists that live up to the expectations of the church a lot better than people who show up every Sunday. I've met people who are religious, but are not Christian who put a lot more effort into their beliefs. I don't think Christianity is the only path, and I think if there weren't meant to be atheists, there wouldn't be.
I think atheism creates moral issiues
They aren’t true Scotsmen. lol
Or perhaps they were prophetic, pointing to Jesus.
But actually, I don't see much of a connection.
@Dargil No. The story of Horus was used to teach agriculture and astrology. Like fables taught morals.The parallels between jesus and horus are numberous as well as the endless other connections to common folk tale concepts, like the virgin birth, flood, etc.
I read some it and didn't see much. But I can settle on them being prophetic.
@Dargil Well I can’t see how the fable of the “three kings” relating to the three stars in orions belt, following the north star to the sun (as they all point like an arrow towards the sun when it is time for the winter solstice) which was known as the sun god is prophetic.It was obviously a story to teach youngers how to use the stars to tell when it was time to harvest crops... it was only turned into a story about a “real” situation by the religious groups almost 1800 years later