Jesus doesn't ever say he is god though, he calls himself the son of man and says that he refers to God as the father not himself. Why would Godbinsist on claiming he wasn't God when he was. That wouldn't that make God guilty of lying? And also why refer to himself as his own son. That makes no sense. So he calls himself both the father and the son? Doesn't the father create the son? And the son exist only after the father creates him. So jesus couldn't be eternal as God is because that would mean that would mean God had a objective begining when the Bible claims that he has no begining.. spu wouldn't that too be a lie?
Because you are carnal minded looking at it from a carnal standpoint. He said that he and the father are one. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have always existed. Have already been. And still is. That's why Jesus is called The Living Waters and why is also considered the Living Word. And through the Holy Spirit all that comes alive. So it's not a lie, your mind just won't be able to grasp it because again you looking at it from a worldly in carnal standpoint. Until you get to the point of understanding spiritual Concepts, it's not going to make sense to you. The only way for you to truly get that Revelation is by asking God himself.
(Carmel isn't the right word also I find that rather offensive...) My belief is actually based on my faith and my trust in God rather than it coming from a worldly perspective of not being able to understand such an abstract concept. First of all I believe in God The Son and the holy spirit. And I believe in them as sperate entities. This one scripture in John 10:30 isn't profound proof that Jesus is the father and that the father is the holy spirit and that the holy spirit is Jesus all I the same. I already told you what I believed the scripture to mean. And mind you I understand the beliefs that They are all one. So It's not ignorance on my part. Frankly I believe the compounding evidence that supports the strong idea and concept that Jesus is Gods son rather than A separate entity of himself. If God were jesus there would be no reason for him to let it be known that Jesus was his son. When he got baptized God told those there. Mathew 3:17 "Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”"God would have said then and there. "This is your father, and I am he." Or something like that. God has no reason to confuse people with his grammar. Neither does jesus who on countless occasions refers to God as the father's as the Almighty God. Also we know that Jesus had a prehuman existance with god you said you yourself. His prehuman existance was as the archangel Michael. not God. Sure you could say that all the angels in heaven the Myriad of myriads of angels are all one. But we know they are not because they all have different names, as the stars have different names as each hair on our heads are numbered. If the idea that Jesus was God is true then that would discredit as well other parts of the bible. Exodus 33:20 "But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”
No one would be able to see God's face and live. God wanted his appearance to be the most obscure thing from people. This is why he says in Exodus 20:4 "You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth" there's another scripture as well I can't find it says something like you must not make carvings of you do so as not to insight people to worship of the image rather than God himself." Or something like that. Jesus made it clear that all he did was at the will of his father not on his own initiative. John 5:30 " I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me."And lastly the most damning evidence is the fact that God has his own name. Which many Bibles take out and disregard because it would ruin this false perception. Psalms 83:18 " I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me."Exodus 6:3 "And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but with regard to my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."Isaiah 42:8 "I am Jehovah. That is my name; I give my glory to no one else, Nor my praise to graven images."Isaiah 54:5 "“For your Grand Maker is as your husband, Jehovah of armies is his name, And the Holy One of Israel is your Repurchaser. He will be called the God of the whole earth." And there are more scriptures that reveal God's true name. Not just the earthly titles people give him such as lord, father and God. There is no reason to stretch to believe some more complicated complex idea that doesn't makes Sense. When the bible gives us more than enough cold hard evidence against such a premise. And clearly tells us, time and time again that Jesus Is God Only begotten son.
So how in the world are you a believer if you say it's not profound proof? Then what are You? What I have to say has nothing to do with it being offensive. You're still carnal mind it because you're not understanding it. You thinking carnally.
What more proof do God has to show you in order for you to know that? Because you're going all over the place. You don't sound structured, and you're speaking things out of town that have nothing to do with the scripture at him. He made it very clear that he and the father are one. You said it's not proof. So either you don't believe that he's one with the father as well as the son of the father or you're basically saying that God is a liar.
Mate you've shown one scripture that could mean many different things, without context. With the context of all the other scriptures provided (which by the way is how the bible is meant to be read using other scriptures to support each other) we know that Jesus is not God... You ask me what more proof do I need. Really you ought to be asking yourself that. See I have my proof and I've shown you my proof. It's up to you to research and decide on your own meditate an d pray to Jehovah for that insight to help you really reason on these scriptures. I do believe that Jesus is One with the father. But not in a physical context. Or not in the sense of them being the same entity. But one in the same as a Sense of purpose, and spirituality. One together in a union a bond of trust and loyalty. I am one with my mother but I am not my mother... Me and my mother trust each other and we support each other but we are not the same. I am her son she is my mother. But We are one.
John 17:20-26 backs that idea further where Jesus says "“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am, in order that they may look upon my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you, but I know you, and these have come to know that you sent me. 26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”" what's more evident than that?
I don't have to ask that because I have a relationship with the father. I have a relationship in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And I have the Holy Spirit with me. The holy spirit is proof enough in my life to know what the word of God says play it for me to believe it. And any questions I need to ask all I have to do is not and he will answer, all I have to do is seek and I will find. And I have done so many of times and I have found my answers. So all I'm saying for you instead of having for me to argue with you the scriptures because I'm not going to argue with it with you, it's for you to get on your knees and ask God humbly what does it mean. Because I don't have to do that I already done it for himself.
Because the one who gave me that scripture is Jesus himself. So the next time you want to argue with somebody then you argue with him which I bet he's not even going to do.
Smh I've read the scripture. It is what it is. So unfortunate.
Lol, so how do we know the trinity is fake? Like I just want references for the future.
Sure is an interesting concept, but what is your evidence that makes such a concept apply to God and Jesus?
Everyone always just says yes or no but no body gives evidence of either answer and it really annoying
Just like Star trek's Borg, anyone can make up a story and pass it off as fact when in reality it's fiction...
Here is John 10:30-33 with links to the Greek (considered the original New Testament language by the predominant Christian denominations) & Aramaic (by the indigenous Middle Eastern denominations):https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/10.htm (the Greek)http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/index.php (you'll have to manually set the Aramaic text)Here is a common English translation:³⁰ "…The Father and I are one."³¹Again the Jews picked up rocks to stone Him.³²Jesus replied, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. Which of these works are you stoning Me for?"³³ "We aren't stoning You for a good work," the Jews answered, "but for blasphemy, because You -- being a man -- make Yourself God."www.studylight.org/.../index.cgi
Right Jesus said The father and I are One. But you have to read the context for definition. Different words have different commentation depending on context. For instance.READ, AND READ. One is pronounced Red, the other Reed. Both mean different but similar things. Even in your head you can read read as read and read as read... One can mean Similar or identical, and one can mean a single person or thing, viewed as taking the place of a group.One in this since is referring to unity. Not being the same. John 10:38 "But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father.” this union is similar to the union of marriage. Genesis 2:24 "That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he will stick to his wife, and they will become one flesh" one flesh.. obvious people who are married aren't literally the same person. But they share one bond, and they share a unity together." Everytime Jesus refers to God as his father he makes it known that they are not the same.
Notice that there are numerous times the Messiah claims oneness with the Father, and Jews try to kill him for blasphemy. Wouldn't He re-phrase if that's not what He meant?Likewise, take into account His doing thing only יהוה Himself had the authority to do (ex. forgive sins), (and note local Jews' reactions!). Note His claim to being 'the Alpha & Omega, the First & Last, the Beginning & End' (Rev. 22:13), which is the claim of יהוה Himself (Isaiah 44:6).And read Philippians 2:5-7. The concept of Trinity is not new to Christianity. Judaism already had it by His time, but distanced itself in reaction to Christianity. Read about the rabbinical debates about the Angel of the LORD, the Metatron, Shekhinah, etc.And look back at the Hebrew of Ecclesiastes 12:1 & Isaiah 54:5 for the words for Creators/Makers translated singular in English translations. Isn't the original word plural?https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/1.htm (Here's an interlinear, but you'll have to adjust manually for each verse.)And remember Psalms 110:1 (concerning LORD יהוה speaking to David's Lord)? And how about the weird Psalm 45:6-7 (with the talked to plural God אלהים anointed by another plural God אלהים here)? Or how about Genesis 19:24 where יהוה rains fire from יהוה Himself?This God is weird & utterly unique. It becomes obvious that there is no-one like Him, being 1 & more than 1 at the same time.
if he was god, then he'd be god like everyone is god. "empowered and blessed by the holy ghost".
So God Jesus and the holy spirit are all different. So what did jesus mean when he said he was one with the father?
That he can speak to him in his mind, I guess. Like connected on the phone.
Lol I like it
well how else do you explain that he talks to god not agreeing. like if he "was" god, that would mean god suffers from schizophrenia or dissociative personality disorder.
Yeah lol. There is no other way
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I thought the whole thing was that God sent jesus because he need a perfect human to pay for the life of the first perfect human Adam. Like sense Adam first sinned God couldn't use a regular human because man was imperfect. Jesus being perfect made him perfect for the ransom. And God said that Jesus was his son... His Only begotten in fact. Jesus couldn't be his own daddy. More could he bring himself back from the dead... And if he did it wouldn't even mean anything...
It depends on the church. Catholics believe what I said, which is the religion I'm from. But it never made sense to me. The more I asked, the less they wanted to answer
So why preach it as of it's fact and you've never even found out whether it was true or not... Dude you have to think for yourself. You wouldn't likely believe me if I told you that the center of the earth is filled with candy... And if the people you ask don't have the answers go to someone else... That's what I did..
I don't know I don't mean to sound rude... I've just always been an advocate for proof evidence and facts. Reasoning from multiple sources and deciding from there what the truth is. Not just repeating something someone else told me especially when I don't even believe it my self... If you restate something someone else tells you, you could be advocating a lie... I definitely don't want to be guilty of that and I doubt you would want to either...
It's all lies to me, but Catholicism taught me this. I was speaking as if I was a practicing Catholic. If I were to believe, that's what I would believe. But I don't sooooo I'm just playing a role. A game.
So a God not The God?
Yes , if I remember in Isaiah. He said who the Messiah would be one is a god. Being God's second in command...
Why did jesus die?
Okay that's what I thought
What's the proof though.. like how do you know that Jesus is gods son? Why would God even have a human son in the first place?
you really wouldn't have any but that is what the church decided to say. back in the early days of the Christian religion they nearly tore themselves apart because they couldn't agree. some wanted to say he was god's son and go with the trinity idea, others wanted to say he was god himself and therefore there couldn't be a trinity.