I agree, religion is the worst thing that happened to society
Like the African countries who are run by backwards religious nuts for years lolIn the long term, I think religion will go away. I think people are waking up to the truth to what religion actually is mostly with the younger generations
I would like to believe that as well. However as long as there are parts of the world that experience poor living conditions and possible death at any moment you can't expect religion to just go away.
According to one reputable source, only 7% of the 1763 recorded wars in history were fought on religious grounds (Encyclopedia of Wars).Even in “religious wars”, religion is often a cover for ethnic, social, economic, or other power strugglesIn comparison, Atheist leaders (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Lenin, etc.) killed at least 110 million people (according to the BBC War Audit) in the 20th century alone, more than all religious wars in the previous 19 centuries combined. (Russell). All of these leaders were bent on the destruction of religion.
At this point, we could say that atheism caused much more deaths than religion did...
@hknmhmn4 Rest of the wars have been fought in the name of atheism? That's news to me.
@jeemm I didn’t mean it. But the 20th-century atheist dictators killed millions of people to spread their own non-beliefs.
@jeemm Besides that, most wars’ reason was about money and political... Not religion
@hknmhmn4 I actually just studied what you've said. All of the Atheist leaders you've spoken of so far has had nothing to do with killing Religious people or waging wars in the name of Atheism. Stalin persecuted religious people but hasn't killed any as far as a I know. Also by Mao you mean Mao Zedong? Same thing. Hasn't killed any religious people.
@hknmhmn4 Did you even read my reply? I already said Stalin persecuted religious people.. *sigh* What I want to know is where are the wars and the mass murders of religious people. A purge of them in a sense. Because that is more or less what you indicated with your initial reply to my opinion on this matter.All the links you provided included nothing of murdering people based on their religious beliefs except executions of religious leaders. Most likely as an attempt to reduce religious activity.
“According to some sources, the total number of Christian victims under the Soviet regime has been estimated to range around 12 to 20 million. At least 106,300 Russian clergymen were executed during the Great Purge.”How come didn’t you see this partAnd I don't understand that you take it lightly by saying "persecution" is not "murder" anyway.https://conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_Mass_Murder
@hknmhmn4 "It is estimated that in the past 100 years, governments under the banner of atheistic communism have caused the death of somewhere between 40,472,000 and 259,432,000 human lives."12 - 20 million Christian people from that is a small portion. I don't know enough about that war to know why they killed the rest of the 240 million people but if you've studied enough to call it a war that targets religious people then I can't disagree. I haven't studied it at all, only used your sources.
Whatever the numbers are, as a result... atheistic governments caused the death of millions of people...
But atheist people ignore this fact and they just go on to say “religion caused war”
@hknmhmn4 That's just retarded. I don't mean it as an insult but you can just select any uniting factors and claim that is the cause of them waging wars.Vlad the Impaler. Killed roughly 80,000 people in the most sadistic of methods. He was Catholic by the way. Genghis Khan was a believer in Tengrism. He was responsible for killing roughly 40 million people. I could find more similar people who were religious and waged wars.
I didn't claim that religious people didn't kill anyone anyway, but if you say "religion caused war / people to die" but "atheism didn’t” it would be hypocritical. Besides, I am not quite sure if those persons killed people to spread their own faith/in the name of their faith...
For example, when American and British soldiers invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, they raped many women there, killed children and committed war crimes. Do you think we can blame all British / Americans or 2 countries called USA and UK according to this logic?
@hknmhmn4 No you blame the individuals. The person who raped will receive the rape charges. Similarly anyone who murders because of an ideology or religion will receive punishment for murder charges.What I said by the original opinion to this question was that religion breeds war. If religion didn't exist there'd be no atheists either to wage war against religious people (not that I believe that has ever happened in the first place).
Maybe atheists would wage a war against each other, how do you know?
@hknmhmn4 If individual 1 is an atheist and he/she wages war against individual 2 who also is an atheist. It doesn't mean there has to be any ideological reason for that war. It could be out of other motives. Also it 100% surely will be because if two people agree about something there is 0 reasons for them to fight against each other about it. Atheists have no reason to fight among themselves about who's right and who's wrong.Not the same case for religious people. There are multitude of different religions, religious denominations and individualistic beliefs about said religions. There are extremists and moderates. You can see where there will the problems will start to arise when compared to atheists. Killing, converting and destroying all in the name of one said belief.
In fact, many wars that we called “religious war” in the history was about political reasons...
@hknmhmn4 The concept exists because religious wars exist. I don't care about the quantity of them. The fact that they do exist is the problem I'm talking about.
And I think saying “If religion didn't exist there'd be no atheists either to wage war against religious people” is similar to say that “if Jews didn’t live in Europe, there’d be no nazis either to make a genocide against the Jews.”Both phrase is bullshit...
Then on what basis could you say that religion caused war? Just because people using religion to wage any war means that religion caused war?
And it clearly seems that just 7% of all wars ever was about religion
@hknmhmn4 But that's true though. Not that Nazis were right in what they did. Whatever Hitler and the Nazi Party felt like Jews did wrong was their opinion. Similarly if religion didn't exist atheism wouldn't have any grounds for existing.It's somehow bullshit? So if Jews didn't exist in Germany for example. How would the Nazi have killed them?
@hknmhmn4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrusadesFor example
Yeah, then you now can say that “ if Christian lands weren’t invaded. the Crusades wouldn’t exist...”Also, I just wonder. If a woman got raped just because she went out at the night, would you say “if this woman didn’t go out, the rape wouldn’t exist then” .
But thank you, you were the first person who justified the mass murder of atheists by saying "religion caused the war". Because most atheists I spoke about this topic brought up the fallacy "they're no true Scotsmen" lol.
@hknmhmn4 If a woman goes out at night she got raped because we went out at night. That's the fact of it. If she stayed at home she wouldn't have gotten raped. There's no existential problem to be found there. You're twisting what I said into something completely different. That doesn't mean she deserved that, it just means it happened because of the fact she was outside instead of inside.How did I justify anything? If someone murders someone, that person deserves to get punished. I feel like I'm not talking to a human. What fallacy? What scotsmen? We've been talking about you saying atheist wage wars against religious people. Which I do not believe is a fact. I've asked you multiple times to provide something to prove that.
@hknmhmn4 Also I would greatly appreciate it if you would answer my questions. It seems like in place of answering a question you force me to answer one of yours.
“If religion didn't exist there'd be no atheists either to wage war against religious people”No need to fool ourselves, anyone whose read this statement will think that you are justifying mass murders which was made by atheists... you should have indicated it in the beginning of the conversation. But you didn’t, I feel like you are just playing the word game. And unfortunately I don’t think that it changes the fact which atheists killed/persecuted many people in the name of their non-beliefs, whether you believe or not. The fallacy “no true scotsmen” means this by the way: “An informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample. Rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule: "no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i. e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group.”And most atheists that I have met ever loved this fallacy...
Richard Dawkins writes in The God Delusion: ‘Individual atheists may do evil things but they don’t do evil things in the name of atheism’.Dawkins won’t even allow us to think that atheism had any influence on Stalin’s murderous regime. He says: ‘The mature Stalin was scathing about the Russian Orthodox Church, and about religion in general. But there is no evidence that his atheism motivated his brutality’.Such a conclusion is a luxury on offer only to those with absolutely no grasp of history. The reality is that it is a plain and simple, indeed brutal, fact that over the past 100 years atheism, as an ideology, has been a driving force used directly to plan, organise and carry out the mass murder of millions of people.We will limit ourselves to a consideration of the way in which state-sponsored atheism has been used to justify the intimidation, torture and killing of those whose only crime was belief in God and who posed no other political or ideological threat.
USSRAtheism was the ideology that lay behind state-sanctioned killing of Christians in the USSR. Karl Marx famously wrote: ‘Religion … is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion, as the illusory happiness of men, is a demand for their real happiness’.And for Marx that meant the abolition of religion. ‘Of course, in periods when the political state as such is born violently out of civil society, … the state can and must go as far as the abolition of religion, the destruction of religion. But it can do so only in the same way that it proceeds to the abolition of private property, to the maximum, to confiscation, to progressive taxation, just as it goes as far as the abolition of life, the guillotine’.
Interestingly, so indebted to Darwin was Marx that he said of his book: ‘The Origin of Species serves me well as a basis in natural science for the struggle in history’. He actually wrote to Darwin asking if he might dedicate his next book to him. Darwin put his decision to decline down to the sensibilities of his wider family.Religion targetedFrom the very beginnings of the Communist revolution in Russia the state set out to apply the atheism of Marx. Religion was systematically targeted as an enemy of the state, an oppressor of the people. It was something not merely to be discouraged but destroyed.Lenin said: ‘There can be nothing more abominable than religion’.Marx’s dogmatic atheism was used as the philosophical justification for the attack on religion beginning with Lenin, continuing under Stalin and maintained right through to the collapse of the Berlin wall. The fact that the attack on religion continued over generations demonstrates that this state-sponsored attack could hardly be blamed on the actions of one individual.Time magazine summarised the legacy of dogmatic atheism as follows: ‘In the Bolsheviks’ first five years in power, 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were cut down by the red sickle. Stalin greatly accelerated the terror, and by the end of Khrushchev’s rule, liquidations of clergy reached an estimated 50,000. After World War II, fierce but generally less bloody persecution spread into the Ukraine and the new Soviet bloc, affecting millions of Roman Catholics and Protestants as well as Orthodox’.
Two giants’ opinionsTwo Russian giants of history come to the same conclusion. Alexander N. Yakovlev was a Soviet politician and historian. He is best known as the author of perestroika and has been called ‘the godfather of glasnost’. It was he whose ideas lay behind Gorbachev’s reform of the Soviet Union. As a member of the Politburo no one can claim a greater insight into the rationale behind the workings of the Soviet Empire. In his authoritative work A century of violence in Soviet Russia he records much of the tyranny of evil committed under dogmatic atheism and he estimated that, ‘Under Stalin’s leadership in the purges of 1937-38, some 100,000 Russian Orthodox priests were executed’.The Nobel prize-winning author Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wrote extensively about life in the Soviet Union, having spent 11 years in the Gulag concentration camps. ‘I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution. In the process, I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own towards the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today the main cause of the ruinous revolution that has swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened”.’When Dawkins comments, ‘I cannot think of any war that has been fought in the name of atheism’, clearly he cannot be aware of the wars within a nation that has led a state to murder on a vast scale its own citizens, all in the name of atheism.
Albania became the world’s first atheist state in 1967. Its leader, Enver Hoxha, systematically sought to wipe faith off the map by banning religion and closing all religious buildings. Young people were encouraged to attack mosques, churches and tekkes and to turn in remaining clergy to the authorities. Clergy who were still alive by 1967 and had survived 20 years of persecution, were killed or sent to hard labour camps. Most mosques had their minarets destroyed, tombstones with any religious symbols were overturned, people caught wearing religious symbols (e. g. crucifixes, medallions of the Qur’an) could be sentenced to ten years’ imprisonment.Much as we might like to think of this as something that we can consign to the history books, the persecution of religion in the name of atheism continues today in China and North Korea.We must not forgetPaul Johnson described the totalitarian state as ‘the greatest killer of all time’. He goes on: ‘State action had been responsible for the violent or unnatural deaths of some 125 million people during the century’. And the reality is that much of that killing was not politically but religiously motivated.We would be shocked, horrified and concerned if people had never heard of the gas-chambers of Auschwitz, so surely we owe it to the memory of those who died in the Gulags not to forget them. How is it that the hundreds of thousands of brave men and women killed simply for being believers in God in countries such as the Soviet Union, Albania, China, Cambodia and North Korea are forgotten or at best ignored?
What is at stake?The problem with the militant atheism propagated by Dawkins et al. is that, in an attempt to blame religion for everything, it has to obscure history to exonerate atheism. For Dawkins to claim that Stalin’s murderous actions were not informed by his atheism is beyond belief and the claim that ‘no one kills in the name of atheism’ flies in the face of all the evidence. Quite simply, atheism was used to justify evil on a massive scale.Once we understand that neither religion nor atheism stand free from accusation, the question remains what is at work in men and women that leads them to kill in both the name of religion and non-religion? If we can’t simply blame religion, where do we go? The answer can be found in something much more fundamental to the human condition, the darkness that resides in every human heart.Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wrote of how he discovered this very fact in his paper What I learned in the Gulag.‘It was granted to me to carry away from my prison years on my bent back, which nearly broke beneath its load, this essential experience: how a human being becomes evil and how good. In the intoxication of youthful successes I had felt myself to be infallible, and I was therefore cruel. In the surfeit of power I was a murderer and an oppressor. In my most evil moments I was convinced that I was doing good, and I was well supplied with systematic arguments. It was only when I lay there on rotting prison straw that I sensed within myself the first stirrings of good. Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil.’
@hknmhmn4 That's way too long for me to read and keep myself interested when it's meant for me to refute. However the “If religion didn't exist there'd be no atheists either to wage war against religious people” statement I still stand by. I haven't justified murdering anyone. If I said "If different religions didn't exist there would be no Crusades or religion related murders". I'm not justifying murder there either. It's simply the truth.
You’re still deluded tho
@hknmhmn4 Religion causes wars. You agreed with it. What am I deluded about?
What causes war is not religion. What causes war is some people who uses religion for their own interests. According to this, everything might cause war, because everything is able to be used by people for their own interests. Just like oil causes war in Iraqi and Afghanistan Wars... but oil itself doesn’t cause war...
And I already showed it that just 7% of all wars that happened ever in the world was about religion. The rest 93% wasn’t
Races, ethnic groups, states, political interests, money, oil... Everythinh might cause the war
@hknmhmn4 Some wars caused by religion. Bam I just refuted your statement of "What causes war is not religion". Religion can be as much of an cause for war as land, financial profits or other profits.
It's bad quality but seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war
Oh I just realized it, you have said that we can see religion being more common in second/third world countries... I don't think there is such a term as second / third world countries. It may vary from person to person, but I personally do not think that Czechia and Estonia, whose 60% -70% of the population are atheists, are more developed than Italy, where only 5% -10% of the population is atheist.
You don’t get it, you really don’t get it. What I mean is that. If you talk like to imply “religion is the only thing that cause war” . It definitely is wrong, because at the beginning, you should have explained why 93% of all the wars ever wasn’t about “religion” . At this point, unfortunately you can refute nothing. I proved that atheist dictators killed/persecuted much more people in the 20th century than religious people did. And you are still gonna go on to act like hypocrite.
And you ignored what I shared in such a long article by saying "this is too long".
@hknmhmn4 I never said religion is the only cause for war. Please quote when I have ever said that.
“On the long run it divides people and causes wars and agony.”Anyone reading this sentence will think you are giving an image as if you were saying so.
@hknmhmn4 Atheism has killed more people than religion or atheists have killed more people than religious people? Those are two completely different things. You seem not think so which I find extremely ignorant.If I went on a rampage and killed 100 religious people you might say agnostics are violent, murderous and intolerant people. You'd be wrong. That would have been my decision as an individual, not as a representative for agnostic beliefs.
@hknmhmn4 Then they shouldn't assume things and only read what is written down. If you came to that conclusion then you need to fix your mindset.
But you would represent "agnosticism" there 😉 because you killed non-agnostic people.
And if you read my article that you ignored by saying "it's too long", you would understand what I mean. Richard Dawkins was thinking the same thing as you.
@hknmhmn4 So if a man kills a woman. It represents all men as intolerant and hateful against women?
Agnostic killing a non-agnostic is the same as a male killing non-male.
@jeemm If he killed this woman just because she is a “woman” . Unfortunately, every woman who hears this incident will have antipathy towards "men" in her mind.
But still you know, "gender" is not a choice, "belief" is a choice.
@hknmhmn4 Belief or non-belief is not a choice. It's a subconscious feeling of how we perceive the world. You can't just change how you feel about something. If I just wanted to become a buddhist it would be easy. But to believe in the world order that is explained in buddhism is just impossible for me.It makes no difference if he targets women or not. He is a man and the victims are women. That means all men are evil. That is the logic I'm following based on what you have said. An atheist leader wages war and kills people. That means all atheists are evil. That kind of logic is beyond illogical.
I didn’t say that all atheists are evil, did I? I just said that evil people existed among also atheists
@hknmhmn4 Not by that term but you refer to atheist country leaders who have caused death as atheism causing death. - Stalin killing 240 million people means he did it because of atheism.- "atheistic governments caused the death of millions of people..."- "atheism caused much more deaths than religion did"- "Quite simply, atheism was used to justify evil on a massive scale" (This I don't really understand though. Either you're saying atheism is evil or it's not evil. If it's not evil then why do you keep bringing it up constantly whenever someone who is an atheist kills people?)Also I don't refute the fact that atheism has killed people. I'm saying wars haven't been fought in the name of atheism. In the name of religion however.. That's a different thing.
There were wars that were made in the name of atheism. All those atheist dictators killed to spread atheism.
@hknmhmn4 Stalin for example waged wars to expand his empire and secure a future for communism and spread it further than where it was currently in practice. Atheistic ideology of that empire was the preferred state. He didn't wage war in the name of atheism. Almost everything keep going on about atheism has been a lie or misinformation.
Stalin didn’t wage any war, he killed civilians mostly... and spread atheism
@jeemm This war is a part of the WW2. And the WW2 wasn’t waged by Stalin as you know. And it’s not about atheism stuff. Stalin didn’t spread atheism by waging war. He spread it by using different methods. Persecutions, massacres, destroying churches, synagogues, mosques etc...
And communism is an atheistic ideology
@hknmhmn4 Then you didn't read any of the articles. Soviet union did initiate wars against different countries and groups.Also Wikipedia only states:"Both communism and socialism eventually accorded with the cultural attitude of adherents and opponents towards religion. In Christian Europe, communism was believed to be the atheist way of life. In Protestant England, the word communism was too phonetically similar to the Roman Catholic communion rite, hence English atheists denoted themselves socialists." as the only reference to Atheism in communism. There's nothing that says anything even closely relating to communism being an atheistic way of life. So yet again, you're either lying or spreading misinformation. Or.. just plainly ignorant and throwing things out of your head.
Well, then - what is needed to happen for an atheist to be counted as “ he killed someone in the name of atheism “ ?
@hknmhmn4 Stalin? He did kill in the name of atheism, I have already told you I agree with that multiple times. I don't agree with the fact he has waged wars in the name of atheism.
The only point you are stuck with is "waging war" .
@hknmhmn4 How so? You say there are wars waged in the name of atheism and I refute it saying why it's incorrect. I'm only as stuck as you regarding this matter since I'm only replying to whatever it is that you're saying.
Be assured that oppression/persecution and genocide against your citizens living in your country just because they are "religious" is much worse than waging war on another state. Because you are doing this to your own people. I meant that.
@hknmhmn4 What's worse is irrelevant. My statement was that religion causes wars. It has nothing to do with most you're saying. But since you want to talk about which is worse I'd actually say purging religion altogether is one of the best ways of stopping the division of social groups, standards and different cultures that focus targeting specific people as evil and as people to be purged. If there were no religions our future as humanity would be extremely more brighter and unified. However killing religious people is the wrong way to go about this. Also Muslims countries are known for their massive genocides of other religious people within their countries.
Well, we aren’t talking about Muslim countries now. And I don’t think that you can blame a Christians/Christianity about what happens in Muslim countries neither. But if you bring it up, how are atheistic/communist countries such as North Korea, Soviet Union, China? Can you explain also it? I hope that you know the policy of the North Korean government on religion.Also, the Crusades are the only war declared in the name of "Christianity" in history. Nothing else besides that.
@hknmhmn4 We aren't? So far we have been talking about whatever you feel like talking but as soon as I slightly vary from the subject at hand we can't talk about it?Yes "crusade" is the name for a war in the name of Christianity. It doesn't mean there aren't other wars in the name of other religions. That's just the name given to wars for Christianity.That doesn't mean there aren't other wars involving other religions.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquestshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_warAnd yes I'm not blaming Christians on what happens in Muslim countries. I blame Muslims for killing people of other religious groups. Why would I blame Christians for dying? That makes no sense.
Frankly, it would be better for you to ask a Muslim about the wars related to Islam in history. Personally, I am not very familiar with the historical wars and Islamic history related to Islam. I am more familiar with the history related to Christians. But frankly, I don't think all Muslim countries are like Saudi Arabia or Iran. After all, there are many Muslim countries all of them cannot be the same. And I personally would not blame “all” Muslims because if the government of a Muslim country is making a mistake, it cannot be the fault of all Muslims, just as it cannot be the fault of all Christians if the government of a Christian country makes a mistake. Anyway. I have never heard of a Muslim country like Stalin committing mass genocide against Christians. As for the Crusades, the aim of the Crusades is only a campaign to reclaim the lands lost by European states in the Middle East. and it was built only on the orders of the Roman Catholic Church. But unfortunately too many mistakes have been made, just like in every war. You know the Bible is against war. So it’s not true to blame Christianity due to the Crusades.
@hknmhmn4 I never have blamed "all" Muslims either. But if Muslims kill Christians because of religious beliefs, then those Muslims are at fault. "Christians have faced increasing levels of persecution in the Muslim world. Muslim-majority nations in which Christian populations have suffered acute discrimination, persecution, repression, violence and in some cases death, mass murder or ethnic cleansing include; Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Qatar, Kuwait, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Maldives."en.wikipedia.org/.../Persecution_of_Christians
Yes, unfortunately we Christians have been the most persecuted group in history because of our beliefs. But it was not only Muslims who did this. For example, the current Atheist / Communist Chinese government has noticed an increase in the number of Christians in China and is doing its best to prevent this. So is the North Korean government.en.m.wikipedia.org/.../Freedom_of_religion_in_North_Koreaen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China
Muslims are a pretty persecuted group as well by the wayen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims
Funny fact is that all countries in the top 10 in the list of freedom of religion in the world are Christian-majority countries. lolwww.usnews.com/.../the-10-countries-with-the-most-religious-freedom-ranked-by-perception
And I think you are a weird person because you blame Christianity for being cause war but you defend Christians on the other hand for being persecuted.
@hknmhmn4 When have I blamed Christianity for anything?
@hknmhmn4 No one should be persecuted. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists or anyone else of any culture or religious background.
Didn’t you blame Christianity for causing war? Or I remember wrongly?
Yeah, you are right on this topic. For example people kill each other with guns every day, right? Especially in countries such as America where does have the most relaxed gun laws. But nobody blames guns due to it. Because guns themselves directly don’t cause a murder. People who use guns cause it. Don’t you think so?
@hknmhmn4 I've said religion causes wars, not Christianity. Christianity is a religion sure and if Christians cause wars then it's also true Christianity causes wars. However looking at it broadly it is the nature of religion itself that is the cause of the war.So yes, you remember wrongly. I have never said Christianity causes wars. Even if I had it wouldn't be blaming them, it would be factually true.Yes guns don't cause murder, they only facilitate the opportunity to do so much easier than what it would be without them.
Well, you said, "Religion causes wars and agony." To be honest, it was the first time I paid attention to the word "agony". So let's go back to the topic of "atheism" that relates to the Soviet Union. If I remember correctly, you said, "Stalin did not declare war in the name of atheism." Right? But now when we look at the word "agony". You said that religion also causes agony. Then would you say that atheism also causes agony? After all, the Soviet Union caused agony by persecuting Christians in the name of "atheism." Didn’t it?
@hknmhmn4 Only one side is capable of causing agony? No. Soviet Union caused agony for many Christian people and many Christians and Muslims cause agony as well. I really don't understand how you can be that ignorant. Just because Soviet Union killed people it doesn't mean other people can't kill people as well.Every group of people and every individual is capable of causing agony. Stalin was an individual, not a representative for atheistic beliefs. It's really not that hard to understand. I'm personally an agnostic and if I became the leader of a country and suddenly started ordering people to murder all religious and atheistic people I would be classified as a lunatic. Not a person who is deemed a representative for agnostic beliefs.
Well, you say, "religion caused agony" when someone religious declared war and caused agony. But when an atheist did this, why don't you say "atheism caused agony"? If this religious person is representative of religion. Why not this atheist person representative of atheism? I meant that the Soviet Union generally tormented "believers". But the reason I labeled Christians in particular was because the majority of the believers living in the Soviet Union at that time were Christians. That is why the main target of the Soviet Union was Christians. Because, as you know, communism is also an atheistic ideology, and that is why you can see that a country that is communist is also officially an "atheist". Therefore, communist states expect everyone living in their country to be atheists. For example, today's China is doing the same to the Uighur Turks to destroy Islam and spread atheism.“I really don't understand how you can be that ignorant”Oh yes, you are the intellectual who played the word game from the beginning and always brought the discussion to the same point but I am ignorant. Sorry, how would you expect me to be for you?
@hknmhmn4 Atheism is a belief regarding the true nature of the universe that refuses the existence of God. It doesn't have rules of behavior that a person of that belief should act. An atheist can think or behave individually without impeding the integrity of atheism in general.A believer in religion, therefore a believer in God represents the laws and behavior set for that religion. Moral rules and religious beliefs. These rules are found in the religion that they follow. If they don't agree with the rules, then they're not true believers of that religion. You might say they believe in some of the rules but not all of them. However then they are not within the dominion of that religious group, therefore not a representative of those religious beliefs.What's happening in China I'm aware of but as far as I know they are only going after Uighurs for reasons I'm not entirely aware of. Therefore I cannot comment on that. However to say they're trying to cleanse their country of religious people is simply inaccurate and once again.. ignorant. There are over 60 million Christian people there alone and they're not going to ever extinguish them unless they go for a genocide option. It's true they're anti-religion but they're not going for total annihilation of religion and religious people.
And by the way another thing you're ignorant about is your claims about China being an atheistic country.55% of their population are believers in Chinese folk religion and 6.3% of the Chinese population are atheists. Rest are agnostics or have other religious beliefs.
China has adopted a policy of official state atheism. Art. 36 of the Chinese constitution guarantees freedom of religion but limits the right to practice religion to state sanctioned organisations. The government has promoted atheism throughout the country. In April 2016, the General Secretary, Xi Jinping, stated that members of the Communist Party of China must be "unyielding Marxist atheists"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheismChinese government is atheist but you are right, all Chinese people are not atheist. Anyway, those who persecute Uighur Turks are Chinese government, not Chinese people.
@hknmhmn4 Interesting.So do you understand now why a religious person represents his/her religion with the actions he/she takes in the name of religion? And why an atheist doesn't represent atheistic ideology.
@jeemm Well, Jesus didn’t condone murder/war. Then how come someone would blame Christianity for causing war? And since an atheist doesn’t have behavior/moral values... you can not classify atheists as “appropriate atheist or bad atheist” .
Or you cannot classify them as “atheist who represents atheism or atheist who doesn’t represent atheism”
@hknmhmn4 Why would someone blame Christianity for war? Maybe because wars have been fought in the name of Christianity?Also there is no mention of Jesus not condoning war. He stated murder wasn't allowed and everyone should strive for peace.Yes exactly. There are no good or bad atheists, there are only atheists. It's a simple concept. Refusing to believe in God. There are no rules or set behaviors associated with atheism. Therefore there cannot be a person representing those values.
So Christianity just means being a follower of Jesus of the Nazareth. Since Jesus has never condoned murder or war. We cannot blame Christianity just because some wars happened in the name of Christianity. It’s an individual/political mistake. Not the mistake of Jesus or the Bible or Christianity.
So theism, which is the opposite of the term “atheism” just means accepting the existence of the Creator...
However, a lot of religious people are backwards and think it is still the 18th century
Sure there are a lot of religious people who use their religion s an excuse to be bad but we shouldn't necessarily condemn it as a whole. Some of my best friends religious and they love and support me.
Shouldn't the correct version of this sentence be like this? “I'm fine with “ALL” people as long as they aren't being homophobic, racist, sexist, transphobic, etc. Like if we could put more effort on loving everyone and working on kindness then that'd be great. As long as they don't force their beliefs or “NON-BELIEFS” on me and are tolerant and respectful to other people I'm fine with it.”I mean, why do you go on just a particular people group?
@hknmhmn4 Definitely true! That's a fantastic point and I definitely agree with it.
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I want religion to be dead, it causes soo many problems
Want in one hand, poop in the other. Let me know which fills up first. I agree to some extent about the problems, but the belief in something imaginary also helps a lot of people in a variety of ways. I don't think there is a perfect way/system.
I agree 100%, religion is 100% fake and backwards
I can see religion becoming extinct someday
And why would I care, it is my question
Well, as it is now it is now a fair poll. In fact, it is less about "which of the following is true about religion?" and more about "for those who hate religion, which of these options reflects your opinion about it?"If you don't give the option to side with the other side, you don't want an opinion but people to side with you.I respect you not liking religion (or hating it, more accurately), but this shows you don't respect those who are religious.
Religious people piss me off often with their backwards outdated anti freedom views
Could you please explain the anti-freedom thing you mention?
Just look at Saudi Arabia and Iran
Again, could you please explain it to me?
Their anti women views, their anti abortion views, their anti drugs views, their anti LGBTQ views, their anti Atheism views, etc
That is not their religion, but the interpretation of it made by archaic and stupid people who, sadly, have the power there. I have known several Muslims, very devote, and they are all against how their religious leaders corrupt their religious teachings. The problem is the people, not the religion.
Stupid people are something else lolThey are hopeless
I agree, religion is the worst thing that happened to society