You know, I understand that the word religion is used as an organized spiritual belief, but as I was reading in the Bible, I found that the word religion, based on God's definition, is actually anyone who goes out to care for orphans, widows, and keeps themselves unstained from the world. Unstained meaning to live a separate life from the way most people live. To live as much like Christ as possible. There is grace and mercy with a genuine heart of repentance and forgiveness. But yeah, I just wanted to clarify, because the word itself makes a lot of people cringe. I used to be embarrassed by that word when people would ask if I was religious, but it's actually a kind word of serving others. I learned something that day :)It is really unfortunate that many people use the name of God and claiming to do things for Him that cause great pain and suffering. It's not something that would please God at all. Even in the bible it says not to take His name in vain. That's what you're talking about when you mentioned people using religion to exert control. That's not ok with God, because it misrepresents Him and His character. Who wants to know if God is real if this these acts are something He's ok with? It would be difficult for anyone to come up with a new god these days, I agree. What would it look like for an entity or God to benefit us from your perspective?Something I took notice of is, that everyone seeks to be fully seen (the best of us and worst) and be accepted, to be fully loved and love back aka relationships. Not always romantic, because, even with the most introverted person in the world, they still long for connection with someone at some point. The best benefit for us is if we all knew and experienced this great love and acceptance. It looks different from what people consider acceptance and love today, because God is perfect. And since he's perfect, his ways won't be on the same level or meaning as ours.
I do enjoy your view on it, even if it feels inherently wrong to me I can acknowledge that to you it is a good thing. And regardless if whether we believe or not there is a merit in that.For me to feel something like a God is a benefit would ultimately require transparency and understanding. A god without the tacked on mystery. Authority without being authoritarian. While also of course, making life better for most. This is not something I see from any widely acknowledged religion of today.I am going to be blunt. I'm an agnostic/atheist based on the day. My family are the same. My mother worked hard crimes for many years. She does not believe in God. She rather wisely pointed out that from her profession the concept of God is one out of only two things that consistenly makes recurring criminals change their ways. There is merit to religion. There is also significang demerit.I refuse to believe blindly with no evidence. Especially in an idea so flawed. But to end this on the note it began; If a God exists and this God was willing to prove its existence to me, or all of us, I would be delighted. It is a rather significant if but I would desire it. We all want to believe in something don't we?
I'm taking your end note as ending the conversation, if I'm reading it wrong, lmk, because I enjoy these conversations.
Aye. That's not to be rude but simply because I don't think I have much meaningful left to say on that particular topic. I will however read any extra comment you make so if you have a stroke of brilliance don't hesitate. I suppose a world in which God (gods?) answer prayers (as in dialogue - not neccessarily acting upon them) would make for an interesting story setting if nothing else! And a world full of believers.
A conversation/prayer with God is what He enjoys. Like people, He wants a relationship with us, but do we want one with Him? Anyway, I appreciate your honest, open responses. Anything said further wouldve been meaningful to me because you have value and your thoughts are nice to know
Yes, there is separation between Christians and Catholics. I agree with everything you said. Catholics have also killed people for converting to Christianity.
Yes they have. They screamed “herasy “ and murdered anyone that even questioned their practices that didn’t jibe with what was actually written in the Bible
It's so sad. I have a relative who genuinely loves the Lord, but is Catholic and has gently pressed me to going back to Catholicism. I dont follow the Lord because of how I grew up; God showed up and saved my life. My dad was slightly disappointed when I got baptized as an adult. Catholics make it part of their identity even though most dont actually care. It's just tradition and traditions are hard to break.
I’ve never understood how anyone could read the Bible for themselves and still choose to be Catholic. Then it came to me that Catholics don’t read the Bible. What I’ve learned is Protestants believe what the Bible says. Catholics believe what the church says and the two don’t jibe and never have
Right. For the longest time church attendees couldnt even read the bible for themselves. And having a baby baptized is a lazy way to live in faith. No matter what then, you're saved without having to really repent and turn away from sins. And more Mary to be an idol like she is, ... I dont understand that one.
The truth is sprinkling a baby with water does nothing but make a baby wet. The choice to be a Christian is a conscience choice one makes. Baptism is full immersion just like Jesus did. The Bible says children already have a place in heaven. The way to be a Christian is also in the Bible. It’s Romans 10 verses 9-10
Exactly. Babies don't have a choice. Yes, as parents, they need to raise their kids up in the ways of the Lord, but without an authentic relationship being seen by them, most likely they'll think it's not that important and turn away themselves. We need to be humble as adults, apologize to them when needed, display love to strangers, choose God first, and walk in righteousness with the Holy Spirit as our guide and strength. And reading the Word.
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If would be better with God, why not continue a relationship with Him?
because I no longer believe in imaginary friends.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I gather is that you're saying that believing in God and having Him take care of you is an immature/childish mindset. Is this along the lines of what you're saying/think?
to some extent. But I don't think everyone is necessarily like that, there are a lot of reasons and paths people have that get them to wherever they are, be they in a inner city gang, smoking meth, going to church, living in a cult, running a multi million dollar company, etc. For me, given my experiences and the information I've accessed in this life, "God" is equivalent to having an imaginary friend. Living as though this invisible being is responsible for my well being (and the rest of humanity/the planet/the universe), does take a lot of responsibility off of my shoulders. Just like I don't think someone in a gang is necessarily a bad person, but if I joined a gang I would feel like a bad person (given my particular situation), if that makes sense?
Do you think that maybe the lack of evidence of his existence is that it isn't what you thought it would be? Similarly thinking a certain celebrity would be a certain way, but then meeting them seeing that they really aren't that way.
Not at all. I attended catechism classes (Sunday School) at a Baptist church as a child but at the same time I was reading Mark Twain and science essays by Isaac Asimov. Twain's skepticism and Asimov's science dominated Sunday school stories. I never really believed, and by 13 I was pretty certain it was all just a fairy tale. At 17, at college meeting other skeptics, I was very certain.
What if the way any of us expect or want him to show up is different from how He would do it? Wouldn't we miss seeing him then?
Is that what you think is going on? He's waiting on his cloud watching all this suffering and bickering bullshit because he wants to jump out of the cake at exactly midnight? Because that strikes me as pretty pathetic of an all knowing creator of heaven and earth
What would you expect him to do?
Are you saying god needs my advise on how to make an entrance? Because if it was up to me if he was going to take the time to speak to man the least he could have already done is speak loud enough for all of us to hear and get on the same page instead of letting the game of telephone fuck everything up
I'm not saying he needs our advice; I was asking to understand more of your thoughts. A lot of people who talk about miracles from God are told that they're only coincidences. In the game telephone, the original person knows what was spoken, but if the last person doesn't ask that person, they'll be stuck on the last thing said. I know God shows up, but we're quick to dismiss it for anything else. I think many people, not saying you, dont want God to exist and so they shut out any evidence or what God calls evidence. Since the beginning of time, man wanted to be right in their own eyes, which is pride. So, if all we see is what we want to see, then we'll miss seeing God, or hearing from Him.
All im saying is that if the one who made the universe in all its perfection gave us life and the ability to think then I am certain he could concince me he was real and asking for rain and having it rain or any of the miracles that people talk about seeing are not in any way convincing to me and it would be easy to get me on board with one second of "hey how are you im god" in the form of a hundred foot flying giant or something like that. So cut the foreplay and show me who you are tell me what you want from me explain why youve subjected us to such a confusing wad of bullshit and kept us in the dark expecting good reaults and punishing us for mistakes. I dont know it just seems like it probably bullshit. But i Will concede that the universe is in such perfect arrangement and the system works so flawlessly that I have a hard time believing that an explosion randomly made it all happen. I dont know what the truth is and I never will as long as im alive amd thats ok. I won't believe bullshit because I'm scared of dying and what that adventure might hold.
Do you believe that the arrangement of the universe was created then?
I believe that all of the explanations I have ever heard were people's attempts to relieve their anxiety about the unknown and none of the beliefs I have come across have any any evidence which I found compelling in the slightest and are symptoms of our nature as humans to understand and control our existence. The fact that we have to live and die not the answer to what comes next is so uncomfortable that we are tempted to latch onto anything someone offers as proof of a sensible explanation and believe it even when deep down we know it's bullshit. I think that the universe was possibly created but I'm not going to pretent thst i know by whom or how or when or why. I'm thankful to be alive and know that soon enough I will be dead and then whatever happens is goinf to happen no matter what do I won't live in fear of judgement from a god who has never bothered to introduce himself to me. And in front of the panel of judges I will sinply say "what?" Want more of me should have given me better directions and tools so that was my life thata how I lived it in proud of what I got out of it so fuck am "what?"