What Makes A Real Man? 6 Essential Things

[isjusti]

I love men. But growing up you realize that there are different kinds of them, some you like more, some less, some not at all. So many times we hear about "real men" and everyone has a different opinion.

Here is what i think:

Being a real man

is not about how much money you have.

Is not about how many women you have been with.

Is not about how masculine you look

Is not about the amount of "swag" you have

Is not about the size of your penis.

is not about how socially powerful you are

So:

1. A real man will stand by his family and he will do everything for his children and wife.

Real men stand by their children, they will never leave and abandon them for an easier life with a new girlfriend. Even if they get divorced from their mothers the children will still be their first priority. Those who just run away and rarely or never have contact are poor excuses of men.

2. A real man will be consistent.

He won't cut contact suddenly and for no reason and remember you again when he needs something. He will be there when you need him and he will make time even on the busiest of his days

3. A real man will be loyal.

Loyalty is rare nowadays. A real man will be loyal to his woman, loyal to his friends, loyal to his family, loyal to his purpose

4. A real man will never try to prove his manliness through violence because he doesn't need to prove anything.

He won't hit women because they "insulted him" or "pushed his buttons", he won't hit his kids because "they dont listen", he won't pick up fights on the streets . He will only use violence if is necessary to protect his loved ones

5. A real man will not make excuses for himself and he will admit when he is wrong.

So many guys are unable to accept responsibility for their actions and try to blame everyone else.

6. Real men work and try to make the best of their lives.

It doesn't matter what job or the lever or education or how much money they making. A low payed uneducated man is better than a spoiled brat that lives off his parents money and he is better than work shy people who chose to live off of social security.

[Fearless_banana]

Real men don't listen to what other people's definition of what a real man is.

[archiz]

then why are you reading this? :P

[Fearless_banana]

I just came to put this comment lol.

[archiz]

hahaha ok I expected you were gonna say: real man don t have to explain themselves xD

[Fearless_banana]

@archiz I lost some brain cells tonight archiz.. my wit is not on fleek.

[archiz]

hahaha xD fair enough you re forgiven lol

[isjusti]

real men listen and give a constructive opinion/criticism back, they dont just dismiss something because they have nothing better to say ^^

[ConsultantIsBack]

Especially from gag of all places lmao

[Fearless_banana]

Lol. ok OP. I take constructive criticism but I don't listen to women tell me how to be a man just as a you wouldn't listen to a man tell you how to be a women. Just as I don't listen to these phaggy memes that I see on IG..
https://pics.onsizzle.com/Facebook-262fab.png

How about this one instead?
mrwright212.files.wordpress.com/.../real-men-1.jpg

[isjusti]

I dont think mt take has any "phaggy memes" and what you randomly find on the internet well ask the people who wrote them. I dont tell you how to be a man, this is your problem , i just give my point of view to what a real man is. You dont have to agree but your comments so far is just dismissive without any constructive reasoning

[ConsultantIsBack]

He is a real man Can confirm I have sucked his dink

[Fearless_banana]

Well if that is your point of view then that is fine. Your title conveys a message that says otherwise.

[isjusti]

They changed the title when they featured the take , my original title was "what makes a real man". But if you read at start i say that everyone has an opinion and this here is mine. But at the eng of the day those are qualities of character i am amazed how many men here opposing to them

[karahiri]

A decent person, regardless of gender, will be all that you listed above. :)

[isjusti]

And being descent is what is what matters most , as i see it

[Bvroon]

Finally somebody who gets what it means to be a real man. This is a very good take. I would hope that there are more young men out there willing to take these 5 points to heart and step up to the plate to be real men. :-)

[isjusti]

Thank you :) Is nice to see that at least some men agree with this take because most here got bitter and frustrated

[Bvroon]

I can very much appreciate the tendency to become bitter, matter of fact sometimes I'm a little bitter, but in all fairness, it's not easy being both an adult and a real man. If it were there would be more real men, but as we can see this is not the case. At any rate while I might become frustrated at times, my better judgement prevails and I drive on, which incidentally is what real, responsible adults do, man or woman. :-)

[Azara]

i have no objection except how is this different from a real adult of either sex?

[isjusti]

sure is what makes a decent person

[phil2]

Women can do the same

[isjusti]

yes of course, can apply to both

[Aizou]

Great one. I like it especially because it's true, and can be applied to woman and being a "real woman" as well. ^.^

[isjusti]

Yes of course , those are qualities of character can apply to all :)

[hellionthesage]

I find it ironic that you mention abuse when its women who actually do the most abusing: www.saveservices.org/.../
Now for the rest I would somewhat agree however this is clearly female centric in nature. A man stands by his family but only if they are worthy to be stood by, if they are abusive he will not tolerate them and thus cut them from his life he owes nothing to those who give nothing. He will be in his childrens life however in this day and age that is nearly impossible as men have no parental rights so its entirely up to the woman whether or not he gets to see his kids or if he is just a paycheck. A man will absolutely use violence if its necessary. That is one of the primary traits of beign a man the courage to use violence when its necessary to do so to protect himself and to protect others. The only reason why so many can say they are against violence is because they live in a society where others (ie police/military) do the violence for him. "the greatest tragedy of the 20th century is a man can live his entire life without knowing whether or not he is a coward.". Yes a man should be loyal to those who are deserving loyalty but also to himself and his personal code of morality and honor (if one is not loyal to their own beliefs then how can they ever be loyal to anything else?). Yes a man should admit to being wrong when he is wrong however so should women and everyone really. Over all I would say this is a very feminine approach to masculinity which kind of defeats the purpose. Also frustrating to see women constantly telling men how they should be then getting upset when a man does the same thing.

[isjusti]

you probably need to read it again because it seems that you missed some parts

[hellionthesage]

No, you just didn't like criticism.

[isjusti]

1. Men have parental rights i dont know where you got it that they dont. Yes some women make it difficult a proper dad would never give up on his children though. They will fight through courts etc. Also there are those who just walk away with a new girlfriend, abandoning theur families, those are unworthy.2 about violence if you had read properly you would see i mentioned"only when is necessary" I mention about domestic violence and street fights, i presume you d agree are wrong 3. loyalty, again you didn't read the part where i say loyal to his purpose.4. this is personal point of view, if you had read i say that at start 5. i personally dont have a problem a man to tell me about women. Someone already did just check the comments and i agreed with him. Most of what you say i never was opposed you just saw what you wanted to see. But at least you came with constructive comment, i appreciate that

[hellionthesage]

1. no they don't, women get custody 80% of the time, when they claim men get custody they are counting things like them getting to call their child or being able to have an hour visitation as partial custody, which it is not and even then counting that women get custody 80% of the time. If a woman gets pregnant she chooses whether or not the baby lives or dies irregardless of what the father wants. She can choose to abort with out the fathers knowledge or consent (ie he has no right to intervene) she can choose to abandon the child thanks to safe haven laws without the fathers knowledge or consent (ie he has no right) and in most states she can give the child up for adoption without the fathers knowledge or consent ie he has no rights. Meanwhile if he wishes to wash his hands of it, to not be a father just as a woman can choose to not be a mother, he still has no right she can force him to pay child support against his will irregardless of circumstance she chooses for him.

[hellionthesage]

He has no parental rights. Women initiate 80% of divorces and as my previous statements show this completely annihilates your notion that they just walk out on their families (thanks for the sexist comment though). Its women who destroy families, which is backed by statistical evidence, oh and just to point out before you try, I already pointed out women are far more likely to be violent within a relationship and the majority of divorces are no fault when filed by women (out of the remaining 20% that are filed by men 60% of those (12% total divorces filed) are because of their wives infidelity). Meanwhile a mans risk of suicide (which is already 4x higher then womens) doubles after a divorce thus suggesting it wasn't because he was an asshole going after a younger woman, which of course isn't the case as the statitics show it is not.

[hellionthesage]

2. I did read it and you made a very big point about domestic violence which I pointed out that despite the sexist (and inaccurate) sterotypes its women who are more likely to be violent within a relationship so it really doesn't stand that this should be criteria for a real man (not that you have the authority to claim what a real man is or is not) since by and large its women who are abusive (maybe you should do a list of what a real woman is and list how being violent is unacceptable even if she has a vagina). Street fights are perfeclty valid if they are in the defense of the self or others, this claim that pacifism is better can only be stated by those who are protected by others who have a decidedly different view on violence. It is a tool it is not the only tool and it is one that is high risk but it is still a tool and is still viable. If it where not we would not use it. No law can be enforced except with the threat of violence behind it.

[hellionthesage]

3. I did read that and I was agreeing to it, merely further defined it. 4. Not sure what this is reffering to. 5. My problem with women stating what a real man is/should be is that it very much has to do with what women want, but has little to nothing to do with what the man wants, what he believes what he feels. Its about her and only her. Its a statement that he belongs to her he is her tool and this is the best way he can achieve her wants, her desires. That is my issue with these lists. You don't see lists on what a real woman is, what women should be and do in fact in our society we see the exact opposite lists about what women don't have to do what they don't have to be and every guy who disagrees is a misgonistic/sexist pig/asshole who never gets laid and lives in his parents basement etc etc etc. I don't appreciate others dictating to me how I should be, especially when it has no clear benefit for me but plenty of benefit for them.

[hellionthesage]

Its like when people tell you its not a big deal when you object to doing their work for them or a favor for them, clearly if it was not then they wouldn't care that you where not inclined to go out of your way for them. These list are much the same way. What would have been better is a question, one asking what men think makes a man a "real man", not a woman dictating to a man (as if men don't get enough of that as is) what a "real" man is.

[isjusti]

You coming across as trying too hard to blame women for everything. You are making this men vs women who is better. As i told you (4) this is my personal opinion, i am not sure why you getting so defensive. I did not tell you how you should behave, be what you think you should be. But in my eyes thats what makes good men. You write many things about fathers, but they are irrelevant. A dad would never give up on his children no matter how hard it is. You again making it men vs women. You missed the point of what i wrote because you took it in wrong way i think. As for domestic violence you making up statistics or you live in different part of the planet. In Europe and Us men are 3/4 responsible for domestic violence. I think will be intetesting if you list what you expect from a woman, i d be interested to read

[hellionthesage]

I stated originally that men usually don't have the option to be in their childrens life that is the womans choice he doesn't have that, so you stating it that a real man would be in his childrens life is irrelevent because its not up to him it up to her. Thats why I initially stated it, then you claimed that men did have parental rights which I then pointed out that no they do not, they have no rights as fathers so again you stating it is irrelevent, it comes off as blaming men because so many childen are fatherless but it quite literally is the fault of women, you would be better off saying a real woman allows her children to have a father then a real man functiones as a father to his children, its not the men that are the issue. As for domestic violence I am not making it up, its really well documented, so documented in fact that I gave you a link to the CDC study, the NCVS study etc all of which prove this fact.

[hellionthesage]

You choosing not to read it is irrelevent to the fact that this is exactly what is happening. Womans groups stating that women are the victims of domestic violence more then men doesn't mean anything because one their methodology is so shotty because its intended function is to prove their premise ie they cherry pick data and set things up so that men who are interviewed or part of their sample merely support the view that women are always victims. Meanwhile the CDC NCVS and various third party groups that corroberate the evidence showing men are more likely to be victims of domestic violence have no agenda, they don't get money from the government only so long as this result comes up, in fact no one gets money when its men being abused. SO that is indisputable, hence me providing a link from a reputable source with no prexisitng agenda. Your entire take was litered with sexist ideas on how men are (them being abusers, them abandoning their children) if it was not then why mention not

[hellionthesage]

doing those things? You don't mention it unless you believe it is prevalent enough to mention. So you made it women vs men the moment you decided to portray men in a negative light. You might as well spewed out the whole speal of "real men don't rape" which of course itself inaccurate as less then 4% of the male populatoin is responsible for all rapes and the fact that the CDC (despite the best efforts of the woman (a feminist) in charge) has shown that women are about as likely to rape men as men are to rape women: https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/
For clarification the lead resercher being unable to pretend the numbers didn't exist decided to label female on male rape as "forced to penetrate" and made it a minor sexual assault despite the fact that it was forced sexual act and thus by definition rape (but apparently only if it happens to a woman)

[hellionthesage]

she was also the one who made the horribly inaccurate study (its methodolgy was utter crap) that 1 in 5 women get raped which is probably why she tried so very hard to hide the evidence that men are also victims and women are equally shitty people (in fact they are becoming worse since we don't actually do anything to punish women who do wrong, just claim its all mens fault). So yeah we know that men are the majority victims of domestic violence as my initial link pointed out, we know that men have no parental (or reproductive) rights yet you decided to act as if they did and it was some how a failing on mens part that these occured when in fact it was just good old fashion sexism. I was merely pointing that out. Yes this was your view on masculinity, I was merely stating it was a warped and sexist view one that made men a uitility of women with complete disregard to their own desires.

[hellionthesage]

You know how women like to say their not here to please women? Well men are not here to please you, or be your paycheck (your work hard and make money remark). ie their not tools so perhaps when you revist this topic perhaps you will now think of how things impact men instead of how they affect you, to as they say put yourself in their shoes before you start casting judgment and making demands. As for my view on what makes a real woman its quite simple, she treats men respect, appreciates all that her husband/boyfriend does for her instead of demanding more, she understands that he is a human being and gives him some lee way in his behavior as he should her. She tries to make her husband and family happy as they should her, she is loyal to her husband and her family as they are to her. Thats about it, you know be a decent human being.

[isjusti]

At no point i tried to make it sexist, this is how you perceived it. If you check the comments quite few commented that this could be for a woman too and i agreed. As for the statistics we will agree to disagree i am afraid. Same for the dads, many men you like it or not, you accepting it or not walk out on their children, find a new girlfriend and forget about them. Not allbut many. If you stopped making this a war between the sexes you maybe able to see it for what it is. As for the qualities you listed for good women i agree with all.

[hellionthesage]

Well statistics are more reliable then opinions so I think I'll just stick to empirical evidence and I never said fathers don't walk out on their children and families only that women do so at at least as high a rate and prevent fathers from being fatheres at even higher rates. This is fact you can't change it. when 80% of divorce is filed by women and an additonal 12% are filed by men because of their wives infidelity, well 92% of divorces filed by women or caused by women isn't really a number that can be ignored, well not by any rational person anyway. Sure men can be crappy but in our society women tend to be worse because they can get away with it, as I pointed out. You made inaccurate statements I provided evidence to show that you inclusion of those statemetns was based off a bias and sexist idea that men are for lack of a better word, shitty people and while a lot of people don't really care, I do.

[hellionthesage]

Its kind of like me righting a list of qualitites for a "real woman" and listing that she isn't a whore, and then explaining that it was perfectly exceptable of me to include that because so many, not all, but many women are whores. What would your response be to that? I'm going to guess much the same as my response was to your list when you tried to suggest men where abusive to their families, which I proved was actaully less likely to be the case then the woman, when you tried to state that a man essentially is more prone to walk out on his family which again I pointed out was not the case. Most men are use to this portrayel, most have even bought into the idea that men are that worthless, as worthless as soceity and women like you seem to believe they are when in fact statisticly that is not the case (did you know that over 70% men actually pay their child support while less then 30% of women do?). I jus get tired of people treating men like shit all the time.

[isjusti]

i am afraid you projecting personal issues here. You took all this in a totally wrong way , you making assumption and so on. It would be great if for a moment try to understand what i am saying to you. You taking everything i say the way you want to take it and you are the only one here that turn this to a sexist war. I will use your example, you write : "Its kind of like me righting a list of qualitites for a "real woman" and listing that she isn't a whore, and then explaining that it was perfectly exceptable of me to include that because so many, not all, but many women are whores. What would your response be to that?" And then you go on to assume what i would say and then getting over the top over something that you assumed that i would say. As i said you projecting personal issues here. If you had a list and you was listing thats i would agree. I would say yes thats right. You totally misunderstood the whole take, and you refuse to see it for what it is.

[isjusti]

i will make a last effort to explain though i talk to deaf ears. Lets assume you got a man who walked out on his children because he didn't like want the responsibility. He is my eyes is not a real man is a coward. There is your n1 Then lets assume a man who uses you , only when it suits him. He is no real man in my eyes, is juts a user. There is your n2 Lets assume there is a man that beat his wife because "she pushed his buttons" He is no real man in my eyes is a coward. There is the violence. If you wasn't so stuck to what you think you read then you would see it for what it is. You can disagree thats fine but you persistently assuming i said something that i didn't

[AperolSpritz]

Holy fuck you're bitter. What about the guys who DO abuse their partners? Are you saying it's all made up and it doesn't happen, or are you one of those guys who think someone deserves it? What about guys who walk out on their family purely because they don't want the responsibility of being a parent? What did those children ever do to him to not be "worthy" ? Jesus, my daughter's father walked out on her before she was even born. No one made him, he is simply just a moron. Mothers get custody of their children more often because they are usually the primary carer, and when it comes to custody arrangements. men don't usually ask for full or majority custody. They don't want it. The favoured custody ruling by judges is joint custody. How is that unfair? No one has the right to tell another person how to live their life & responsibility should be placed where it belongs, but you can't go through life with your ears plugged thinking one side is to blame for it all

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz No not bitter that implies that I have personally been affected and I have not, unless you count my mother abusing me as a child which really is irrelevent to this topic. Are you trying to suggest that the majority of voilence in a relationship is commited by men? Because as I pointed out statisticly that is actually unlikely, your more likely to have an abusive wife then an abusive husband. That was my point every one talks about how abusive men are how evil they are their rapist etc etc etc which is all not only statisticly inaccurate but statisticly far more applicable to women. I'm sick and tired of hearing how men are evil and bad and women are always innocent victims. So when some one goes out of their way to point out men are bad I go out of mine to point out that no they are not. Sure some men are I never said otherwise, I stated women are more likely to exhibit this behavior based upon statistics (which I provided).

[AperolSpritz]

So many people on this site are so sensitive. It shocks me that so many people take this site so seriously. You could have simply thought "Ok that's her opinion" on this take. Everybody's differ and that's OK Why do so many people have to start jumping up and down at the fist sign of what they think might be any type of criticism, even when it's not even close, and play their favourite "well so and so does it" card it's so unbelievably petty.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz Men are not rapist nor do they need to be taught not to rape. Men are not abusive and need to be taught not to hit women. Men by and large do not abandon their families, and quite honestly I am sick and tired of hearing this clearly inaccurate trope touted as truth. As for custody no, women are awarded custody because they are women, this is statisticly proven. Men ask for custody and do not get it because they are men, again this is proven. When a man puts a gun in his mouth because his children where taken from him (men have a 2x greater probability of suicide after divorce (this is on top of their 4x greater probability of suicide) thats not because he didn't want his children its because a system was in place that prevented him from being in his childs life. When a woman can abandon her child (safe haven laws) or give it up for adoption without his consent, that is him not being allowed to be a father, not him abandoning his child.

[AperolSpritz]

Not many people in the real world, think men are "evil" and are to blame for everything. Everyone realises that abuses happens from both sides. I wish more people campaigned to get the facts in the spotlight. When you go outside and talk to people, we do all actually get along. We do care about each other. The internet, with it's purposeful antagonism, is not a healthy place for a person to spend a lot of time.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz When you have multiple fathers rights groups filled with men trying to change laws so they can see their children you cannot claim its because they do not wish to be fathers. When the law sides with the woman the vast majority of the time and has proven to be irregardless of how much time was spent with the child that is evidence of bias laws. https://www.fathersrights.org/
singleparents.about.com/.../...s_organizations.htm
https://www.dadsamerica.org/resource.htm
https://fathers4kids.com/
www.fathersrightsinc.com/advocate_plan_desc.htm

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz When I get to see a man broken because his child was taken from him and he had no way of fighting back that tells me that it has nothing to do with him not wanting to be in his daughers life (backed by statistical evidence unlike your statement) when I see a man have his wife cheat on him then abandon him and their daughter only to do it a second time when he gave her a second chance (because he wanted his daughter to have her mother) that tells me that this whol idea that its men who are so shitty is kind of bullshit. Women are just as capable (and in some cases more so) of being shitty people and so that is why I brought it up, because I see that as a credential then that means their is an idea that enough men pull this shit that it requires mentioning. I don't think thats fair, especially not in a world that already treats men so shittly. So yeah I suppose I am bitter that we as a society are so comfortable destroying mens lives and blaming them for it.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz No its not petty, its trying to inform people because their view has real world consequences. Their view dictates laws who passes what laws what statements get circulated what beliefs get circulated. Thats why it gets stated. Because if I sit back and do nothing and say nothing you get to spout what ever inaccurate and sexist statements you want unchallenged. That is as good as condoning it. Thats why we have the laws we do that take away righst of fathers, of men because no one wants to step up and point out the flaws in reasoning, to step up and mention the statistics. THe only reason why you don't want me to speak is because I am criticising this mentality of blaming men for everything and viewing them as inferior to women. That is why its so ironic that you would complain about me being sensitive to criticism, because that is exactly what you and the asker did. I pointed out what was inaccurate and stated what I agreed with. Both of you got defensive.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz As for caring about each other, that is bullshit. If we did fathers would have rights, men would have reproductive rights, the homeless wouldn't be comprised almost entirely of men all the while society wouldn't be talking about how poverty is a "womens issue" nor would they talk about how bad women have it as 75% of suicide victims are male or how men are abandoing their families as their wives rip their families apart with while giving the man no way to defend themselves (prenups are thrown out frequently, alimony payments and child custody do not take into account infidelity, at least for the woman, etc). BUt thats exactly what is happening. We say real men don't rape even as statistical evidence shows women rape men as frequently as men rape women (amy schumer even told a story of how she got over her awkwardness by raping a man who was to blacked out drunk to know what was going on to the applause of women).

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz So no we don't all get along, we pretend to not notice the injustices that are done because its only men and they don't count as people, we ignore the broken fathers who are doing everything they can to be in their childrens lives and the men who have their families ripped apart because their wives got bored of them, or the children who end up having to pay child support to their rapist simply because of their gender. Women get along just fine, men get by, and only so long as they ignore what goes on around them.

[AperolSpritz]

So you're saying that there are no men in this world who rape? No men in the world who are abusive? It's solely women. That's what you're saying? Seriously? You're right in that men don't need to be told not to rape most sane people know how to exercise self control. As as for fathers you believe never walk out through their own choice. I'm pretty sure that when my ex boyfriend left, His words were "I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I can't be there for you" I'm 100% sure those were his words. I also remember , not very long ago, spending over year in court with that man, in which they gladly let him come barging back into her life. My worry is that they will keep doing that everytime he wants to pick up and put down being a parent, simply on the basis of DNA and his "rights" As for abortion, that's a woman's choice over her own body. Biology is no one's fault but it's the way it is. In the UK, men have every right to contest an adoption.

[AperolSpritz]

It takes two people to reach a divorce, and not usually because someone is "bored"

[AperolSpritz]

Women can be bitches when it comes to separation or child custody and it makes me angry to see it. Children are not weapons or possessions and its upsetting to see parents go at it without realising the damage they can potentially cause, but those people don't represent the majority.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz So clearly you didn't read a thing that I said, if statisticly women are as likely to rape as men are then I am clearly stating both are equally capable of rape. How do you possibly mis interpret that? HOW? "Both men and women rape at equal rates" "your saying only women rape?" Clearly you have no idea what your talking about or more likely you don't care you want to try and turn it on me and men because you can't hanlde the facts. As I stated, Yes men walk out on their families that was never denied not once, not once. I stated it happens I also stated that a large majority of men want to be in their childs life but thanks to bias court systems, which i have provided evidence of, they cannot. How the hell have you completley missed what I said? YOu are choosing to misrepresent my statements, NEVER ONCE DID I SAY MEN CAN DO NO WRONG. NOT FUCKING ONCE. Let me repeat that since you are having a hard time understanding it,

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz Not all men are good not all men are loyal not all men are decent people. My argument was not that, it was not all men are pieces of shit as you and so many others try to portray it. Not all women are victims, as you and other peope try to portray it. DIvorce is not done by two people, this is fact. 80% of all divorces in the us are initiated by women the reason being "no fault" ie no one is to blame no one did wrong but they don't want to be with the person any more, conviently 80% of all childsupport is paid by men (out of all those men 70% of them actually pay child support, and many more go to prison because they cannot pay. less then 30% of women actualy pay the childsupport that is federally mandated, they do not go to prison for it.). In the UK 70% of divorces are initiated by women so clearly its not mutal.

[AperolSpritz]

I read it, but there were times when we were both writing at the same time, so I'd posted before I had chance to read what else you wrote, and the last time, there was so much that I had to keep going back and check it, and i kept losing the thread. The whole things is so long. ( It's REALLY late here, or early depending on what schedule someone's on and I'm on a train home from work so I could only memorise certain parts word for word and I had to make it a bit more compact) ... but the world isn't as black and white, against men/for women as you think, and speak for yourself but we don't all have a personal generalised sexist view of the opposite gender. When I came out of court I thought a lot about working somehow with other parents going through difficult child custody cases, and I thought specifically about helping men. Not because I felt sorry for my ex, there was nothing to feel sorry for, but because some men do get a rough deal, not all men, but some.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz And no a father does not get a right to stop an adoption unless he has used the civil courts to prove paternity and then only if he does so in time, if she give the child up for adoption and she never notified him he is shit out of luck ergo he has no real right, it hinges on her telling him he is a father and that she is giving the child up for adoption something she is not legally obligated to do so he is at her mercy. As for abortion, sure lets say its her body (technicly it isn't since the fetus has different DNA and is under the law, accept for abortions, considered a legal human being (hence any one who attacks a pregnant woman being charged with double assualt on account of the child)) but does he have a right to his money? Its his body that he used to earn it so clearly he has a right to say he does not wish to be a father they are his right? Wrong, she decides for him. So no again men have no rights in parentage or reproduction.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz Not some men, most men. I have listed a fraction of the issues. As for women I never stated all women are sexist, what I stated is they believe in lies they excepted something as true which is not. Thats why when I wrote my initial comment I mentioned the things she stated that where not accurate, I agreed with some of them that where, she decided to fixate on my corrections and I got frustrated because when things are so one sided when everything else says otherwise that makes me upset. When I can show that men are getting screwed in all areas from education (men have a 4x higher drop out rate, over 63% of college graduates are women and rising) to health ( women recieve at least three times more federal and private spending on gender specific health research then men) to parental and reproductive rights and poverty etc etc etc then that is a huge issue. Not all women are sexist and I never claimed that, but ignoring the facts doesn't solve the problem.

[AperolSpritz]

I've only just read you last post, so don't bite my head off. I never said all men were shits, or all women were victims, I don't think that, I never said that. I was simply trying to point out that not every single man is simply an innocent victim of women's actions either, which is what I thought you were trying to say. There is good and evil on both sides, and we won't always get along, but I'd rather not go around think we were all out to screw each other over. From what I've seen, it's not the case.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz That was my point, however society and it seems a lot of women are convinced only men do wrong, thats why you see the "real men don't rape" campaigns even though women are just as likely to rape men (and the fact that even when women do the man is ridiculed for it), why we have those "My strength is for protecting" campaigns calling men out as abusive when in reality women are more abusive (because we as a society allow it, we don't care that men are abused so women can get away with it) we talk about how fathers are abandoing their families yet never mention how we have a system designed to prevent them from stepping up as fathers. So they get all the blame, women get none of it. Thats the problem the refusal to recognize that men and women are equally capable of wrong doing which is why when I see some one mention it as one sided I point out that it is not because I cannot tolerate another stereotype being touted as fact.

[AperolSpritz]

OK that's fair enough. I'm just going to wish you a good day/night otherwise we could be here forever and I have to go. I understand why you're angry, but just don't be too angry all the time. We're not so bad.

[AperolSpritz]

You are right in that we aren't being shown the bigger picture. Absolutely. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for that.

[AperolSpritz]

This last post is something I'd be really interested to have a less rushed discussion about. I just couldn't do it now. You should write about it. ( I don't mean on this site, somewhere that matters) or teach about it. Someone has to put it out there.

[hellionthesage]

@AperolSpritz Fair enough. Its hard not to be angry about it when your surrounded by it but can't do anything but point out how its wrong (only to be immediatley dismissed and insulted).

[hellionthesage]

Yeah maybe.

[Kelania]

True... this what a rwal man is... but in today's world no man posses these qualities... sad but true !

[isjusti]

Oh but they do. Is just that the little idiots making more noise and give bad name to all men

[Barrabus_the_Free]

Having an XY chromosome combination.

Any other 'answer' is bullshit shaming language designed to reduce men to mere utilities for someone else.

[isjusti]

So which of the things listed you disagree with and for what reason? Which of those you believe is "reducing men to mere utilities for someone else" ?

[Barrabus_the_Free]

Any time the term "real man" is used, anything that follows is shaming language, and can be disregarded. If I were to write up a "real woman" article, women would have a shitfit.

[isjusti]

So you discredit everything i wrote without even read? Ok. If you check comments someone already wrote a list about women and linked it and i agreed to it. I can see the term "real man " upsets some but i think that in most cases is sour grapes or big ego. But of course we can't all agree. If you want to list what makes a woman in your opinion i will be happy to read

[Barrabus_the_Free]

I don't know about grapes or ego. I've learned that when that term is used, you can basically count on what follows to be a list of things that men should do to make themselves more useful to other people.

[isjusti]

It would really help this conversation if you bothered to read the whole take and not just the titles. I am not asking you to agree but at least to know what is about

[AleDeEurope]

Nice Take, I agree with all that.
Didn't expect it to be good, I was expecting another Take by a bitter girl, or a Take by a teenager who knows nothing about guys, but I was surprised.

[MusicLover8098]

I guess I just feel like "What makes a good man? 6 essential things" would've been a more appropriate title. Aside from that, I agree 100%, though it should be pointed out that this kind of man will sadly be rejected nine times out of ten in favor of someone completely the opposite. Because many girls do not want a good man, they want a "bad boy".

[isjusti]

well.. maybe until they be mature and then they will start looking for what really matters, girls with boys and women with men

[hazoplmeught]

1 A real man will stand by his family and he will do everything for his children and wife.
he has to get one first

2 A real man will be loyal
he has to get a girl first

Sooo these matter
"is not about how much money you have.

Is not about how many women you have been with.

Is not about how masculine you look

Is not about the amount of "swag" you have

Is not about the size of your penis.

is not about how socially powerful you are"

[isjusti]

The perspective when i wrote the take was more to point out things that define a "real man" in my eyes. It doesn't have to have all of them but if a man is the opposite of any of them ( for example abandoning his kids for the sake of a new girlfriend, or is inconsistent or doesn't care to work etc ) then he lacks qualities that make a real man

[hazoplmeught]

that is true, very true

[abundantlyrich]

Cooks
Becareful not to impregnate a girl
Have hobbies
A purpose in life and not coming to complain how he cannot have sex anymore

[isjusti]

:) Yes

[alice55]

It's the first time I agree with all the point in a take. Good job :)

[isjusti]

thank you!

[alice55]

You're welcome ^-^

[Prof_Don]

Point 4 about the violence is so true! Real men don't have to try so damn hard to show their strength. I always find the guy that initiates fights to be mentally weak.

I have been in very few physical fights in my lifetime, and each time I was on defense, as in I didn't initiate. Most physical fights are over stupid shit; thankfully I never bought into toxic masculinity.

[isjusti]

thats good :)

[NerdInDenial]

I agree some things, but violence is sometimes necessary especially for self-defense. There are people in this world who are evil and want to destroy others. A real man must and will do everything in his power to stand up against evil; he must have courage to fight for those who can't fight for themselves.

[isjusti]

i guess this falls in the category of "fight when needed" which i totally agree with it :)

[Grace_Rdz]

Good MyTake, but how about "a real man has a penis?"

[isjusti]

In my opinion and my perception a penis doesn't make a man. You probably have to be a bit older to understand the meaning of that take

[Philosopher_Edge]

So... While most of these things make some sense... I can't help but think this is a romantised view of how men should be... To women.

Nothing in here about how a man should feel, nothing in here about how a man should deal with his feelings, how to do deal with... Well, being a man. There is nothing in here about how a man can just accept who he is and be okay with it. And there is certainly NOTHING in here about accepting him with his faults. i. e.

"5. A real man will not make excuses for himself and he will admit when he is wrong."

Those many of these traits are admirable, there are still standards that are being places on men by someone else.

[isjusti]

This take is a womans point of view on what a real man is. I dont know why you expect to read "how a man should feel" or "how to deal with his feelings" etc Also is not romanticized at all, all those used to be common some years back if you are 38 you should know better.

[Philosopher_Edge]

ha ha ha Obviously you missed my point completely. You can talk all you want, and judge all you want about what a 'real man' is, but if you never work past that understand that 'real men' are just like You... A fallible human with needs, wants, dreams, desires, insecurities and hopes. None of your article acknowledges the PERSON a 'real man' is.

[isjusti]

So of the qualities i listed which ones you disagree with and why.

[Philosopher_Edge]

If you re-read my original response, I said those were admirable traits.

I was pointing out that these are traits, do not include the Man as a person. Only how he should be to you. No mention of how a real man should pursue his dreams. No mention of how a real man should be able to enjoy art, or music, or hobbies he has.

I suggest reading 'Self-Made Man' by Norah Vincent, and get to know men for real. You'll be surprised.

www.amazon.com/.../0143038702

[isjusti]

ok thanks for the suggestion, seems interesting

[idkwtftoputhere]

JUst stahppppppppp this real man bullshit. Everybody is real ok

[isjusti]

Thats your opinion, respected but i dont think that at 18 you can judge , give it some time and experience life first.

[idkwtftoputhere]

Don't try and use my age to disqualify what I'm saying, I can be 18 or 28 or 38 and the likelihood of my opinion changing is minuscule. Unlike you, I don't like to constrict people in boxes.

[isjusti]

is matter of experience but of course is your opinion which is respected. At 18 you think you know all, life will teach you better

[idkwtftoputhere]

I never stated that "I know all", I never even implied that. Don't put words in my mouth.

[isjusti]

As i see it , you do not understand where this take coming from and what is about because you are still too young. When i mentioned this you got all upset about it, totally disregarding what i said. You sort of think you know it all but as i said your opinion is respected.

[idkwtftoputhere]

I understand it just fine lmao like I said before, don't try and use my age or my "inexperience" to disqualify my opinion. This take is just another attempt to try and control male behaviour, who are you exactly to determine what a "real man" is or not?

[isjusti]

little angry princess , i won't take lessons from an 18 y old, i am all polite with you but cut your attitude. Believe what you want to believe , i could not care less

[idkwtftoputhere]

"little angry princess" lmfao gtfo

[isjusti]

the only that is happening here is you showing your attitude :D But i won't bother no more, little princess^^ come back when you know what real life is

[idkwtftoputhere]

I'm not afraid of showing attitude, especially when you have no real criticism for me other than my age which is pretty pathetic honestly.

[isjusti]

criticism and fact are different things. All you are is a stroppy little princess who thinks she can make a point across by having attitude. That maybe works on your mum and dad but not the real world as you will find out when you grow. This is my last reply, i have no intention to argue with people like you

[idkwtftoputhere]

What facts? All you've done here is throw ad hominem attacks at me, well done.

[VomitV]

What Makes a Real Man, 2016 ed.

1. Gay plumed undercut
2. "Socially conscious"
3. Clothing style: Gap or Land's End model
4. Bae
5. "Intelligent" (That means having a pulse in today's context. Calm down, sweaty maths nerds)
6. Muscles, but not too many, because he still has to be an effete man-bitch

[isjusti]

maybe when you are 20 , when you mature and experience life, the perceptions of what really matters change

[VomitV]

I don't know why my views would change so drastically in two years - as if there were a specific age when people become mature an experienced - but this was meant to be sarcastic. This is what a lot of women thinks makes a man today, not my thoughts on the subject. Maybe when you're 37, you'll learn to comprehend what you read.

[isjusti]

you didn't understand what i meant. I probably should have put it better. I meant "maybe when you are 20 (on your twenties) those things you listed are important but when you experience life and mature (whatever age that be, your thirties? forties? ) perceptions change. I hope this cleared things up. And i know what you meant by listing those i just replied to the list :)

[isjusti]

As for "Maybe when you're 37, you'll learn to comprehend what you read" sort of uncalled for but well lol

[99percentangel]

Lol so many pissed off men in the comments

[limousin]

Nothing to add!!! I agree totally.
The trouble is that sacrifice/loyalty/caring is rarely appreciated in later life, at least in my case!!

[isjusti]

i think they should be appreciated no matter the age :)