50 Shades of Overthinking

Ok... So, that book. Yeah, THAT one.

50 Shades of Overthinking

First, let's reprise 4 things we DO know about ... that book.


It's really bad. (In fact, it's so bad that I genuinely thought it was intended as a burlesque, or a lampoon, when I first read it.)


The title character is a fucked-up creepy psycho stalker with mommy issues. There's nothing authentically dominant about him whatsoever. He has a troubling attraction to helplessness and naïveté, and the story sure as hell doesn't help equally naïve readers distinguish between dominance and abuse.


The story certainly doesn't do BDSM or its cognoscenti any favors, either. (The title character is said to have first become submissive, as the result of, essentially, statutory rape -- and then somehow evolved into this faux-dominant poser. There are so many things wrong with this portrayal that I don't even know where to start counting -- or where to stop facepalming.)

50 Shades of Overthinking


But... it's a cultural sensation nonetheless.

Its effects have spilled over into the public consciousness, the incidence rate of STI's among the post-menopausal crowd, and even the inventory turnover of hardware stores.



OK, that's the background.

Now, let's talk about a MORE insidious effect of That Book -- about which I haven't heard as much chatter, either in real life or on the internet.

Thanks to that book... For a lot of people, fuckin' can't just be fuckin' anymore.


The most pernicious effect of this whole 50 Shades phenomenon, as I see it, is that many of the book's devotees have started to view EVERY sex act through the lens of "domination" and/or "submission".


For these unfortunates... fuckin' has lost its ability to just be fuckin'. Sex can't just be sex anymore -- it HAS to be power games, all the time.

50 Shades of Overthinking

Don't get me wrong here -- I LOVE sexual power games. Deep in mah darkest deepest heart of hearts (yes, I actually have a heart), I'm one of the most sexually submissive creatures that ever rolled off the machines of God's North American manufacturing works. I had lurid fantasies at age 11 that would make post-apocalyptic warlords blush. I can have blinding orgasms just from being slapped across the face -- by the man I love -- with the perfect verbal lashing to accompany it... let alone more intense things. #fuckyeahmarriedlife



Even for a degenerate like me... MOST fuckin' is just fuckin'. MOST sex is NEITHER "dominant" NOR "submissive" -- but MOST sex includes a healthy complement of making sweet hot intense emotionally invested luuuuvvv.

...And THAT's the biggest problem this 50 Shades phenomenon has caused -- ALL THAT has been lost, for many of the book's biggest aficionados.

For far too many 50 Shades fans... BDSM limits, rather than enriches, their sexuality.

I've seen and heard discussions -- not only on the internet (where every imaginable manner of weird discussion prevails), but even in real life -- about things like whether it's "inherently submissive" to go down on a woman.

Sweet hell, I even heard a serious conversation once between a couple of thirtyish guys -- in the real, live, living breathing world -- about whether it was "submissive" to KISS a woman.


Yeah, they were a little tipsy... but... SRSLY?

50 Shades of Overthinking

Worst case scenario, there's going to be a whole army of disaffected women whose faux-"dominant" boyfriends are afraid to go down on them. Or even KISS them.

And however many thousands of men AND women with, essentially, stunted sexual growth. Unable to just make sweet love.

NO sex act is inherently "dominant" or "submissive".

Not a single one.

As an analogy, consider the word "bitch". "Bitch" is a word.

Think of all the different ways a man could say "Bitch" to a woman.

• He could be sniveling and butthurt, and it'll just make him seem even more pathetic.

• If she's afraid that she's rubbed someone the wrong way, he could say it sarcastically, and -- ironically -- comfort her.

• He could glower at her with fire and anger -- and passion -- in his eyes, and scream it at her because he loves her so much and hates her so much... all at once.

• He could say it while he fucks her into sweet orgasmic bliss -- to let her know in no uncertain terms that she's his bitch.


You get me.

With ANY sex act, it's the same.

The THINGS you do in bed are like words. They can communicate absolutely anything you want them to communicate. If you read something as "inherently submissive", then that's your fault, for having such a limited point of view.

With the right lover, ANY sex act can be "submissive"... or "dominant"... or loving... or degrading... or maybe all of the above, all at once.

50 Shades of Overthinking

Or none of the above. Because sometimes, fuckin' is just fuckin'.


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Most Helpful Guy

  • Only you could write this Take haha

    You know you are not wrong about "devotees have started to view EVERY sex act through the lens of "domination" and/or "submission". Same thing I thought about on occasions too in a sense if girls view sex that way and hence I am suppose to think the same way?

    Luckily its not black and white for me and is exactly "Even for a degenerate like me... MOST fuckin' is just fuckin'. MOST sex is NEITHER "dominant" NOR "submissive". But as you mentioned somewhere else PUAs, bros and other chatter can confuse and box guys into thinking as such, power games as you mentioned its their job to be Masculine or dominant to please their lady as that's exactly what she is desiring 24/7. at least guys might be understandable but you mention women buying into this crap surely they would soon realize what they do or don't enjoy.

    I don't know about women but from guys perspective it does clear things or misconceptions. Its not like we guys fully understand girls' fantasies like you mention girls know where to draw the line, they know where fantasy is fantasy. You know I'm just gonna let life be simple no Alpha/beta, no Dominant/Submmissive, forget dichotomies. Just do what you enjoy, forget these labels too confusing.

    "Or none of the above. Because sometimes, fuckin' is just fuckin'."

    • Seems like you're approaching this in a healthy and well-rounded way, in general.

      It actually blows my mind that anyone could even *think* to look at something like sex in such a simplistic way.
      I mean... All you'd have to do is observe YOURSELF, over the course of a normal day, to realize that's not a thing.

      Think about the kind of sex/intimacy you'd want to have right when you wake up, or right before you fall asleep... DEFINITELY not heavily "dominant" or "submissive". More like just lying there together, and doing more or less nothing.
      Then think about what you'd want when you're super amped up and turned on. Totally the opposite, right?

      Seems obvious enough to me. So, it blows my mind that anyone could think that a woman would somehow want the same thing at every hour of every day in every mood and every situation.

Most Helpful Girl

  • It makes Erotic Romance novels look bad that's for sure. It's written so bad I had to stop halfway through book two. If I had read about her "inner Goddess" one more time I would of broken my tablet.
    I don't necessarily think it is a bad thing people are reading it though people should be able to read whatever they want without fear of judgement. It may even get more readers into good Erotic Romances. Twillight was the first Paranormal Romance novel I ever read I dislike it now that I have read better books but it was what first got me into the genre.
    It annoys the crap out of me with all the attention it is getting when there are better Erotic Romances out there but all the hate it is getting is kind of silly. It is just fiction if people are not going to fact check and believe everything they read they are just stupid people.

    • Tx for yr opinion. What are some of the best erotic romances you've read? Maybe 2 or 3 that stood out?

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    • I'll probably PM you if you don't mind.

    • Oh sure thats fine.

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What Guys Said 31

  • I guess the perceptions people have because of the book/movie are not a lot different from the way porn distorts peoples' visions of sex. This is yet another reason why erotica is really no different to me than porn, despite how much the females keep telling me it is.

    But this just seemed kinda all over the place to me. You're nay-saying dominance/BDSM - or the perceptions of dominance/BDSM - yet detailing how you like it in your own way. You're also making it too one-sided as if it's just men who call women "bitches" out of any anger, malice, or frustration, when women can look the most childish with their use of the word in cat fights.

    "With the right lover, ANY sex act can be "submissive"... or "dominant"... or loving... or degrading... or maybe all of the above, all at once."
    - With that being said, it pretty much seems to make this whole thing void of any point.

    • I'm not "naysaying" anything -- I'm saying that people have tunnel vision.

      I mean, here's an analogy: Let's say you bought a Ferrari as a status symbol -- but you ONLY ever thought of the Ferrari in terms of "status symbol".
      Sure, that's one valid way to think of it -- but then you'd be robbing yourself of the joy of driving a Ferrari.
      The best situation would be to enjoy the status-symbol aspects WHEN they're significant -- but *also* to enjoy just driving the car.

      In that analogy, the status-symbol thing is the stand-in for D/s. It's only ONE aspect of sex, but, some people are making it into *everything* -- and thereby losing a ton of other aspects.

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    • And how do you really know that? It probably is another form of sexual activity that goes on a lot more than most of us really realize.

    • It's pretty easy to tell from most people's reactions. Not the faux-outrage kind of reactions, but the kind that betray the fact that they genuinely don't have any clue about it.

  • I remember picking up the book in a store and reading the first paragraph. It was so bad, I thought it was a joke. Instantly, I knew two things:

    1. I knew why that piece of crap was self-published, as the manuscript would've been laughed at by every literary agent and publisher in the world.

    2. The fact that it got popular proves that we're not only a seriously twisted populace, but we're seriously stupid, too. Sad.

    • Re #2, I think you are underestimating "first-mover advantage". Like, HUGELY underestimating it.

      50 shades is, honestly, the very first book of its kind to hit the mass market as a trade paperback.
      So, it had no *need* to be a good book. It just had to exist.

      I mean, generally speaking, the very first _______ pretty much ALWAYS sucks, no matter what "______" is.
      Why wouldn't it? There's no competition yet!

    • All of that is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned. It's bad. It's a ridiculously poor quality product. If a piece of turd is the first of its kind, it still shouldn't sell... the only way that happens is if the masses LIKE the turd.

    • Nah. If there's no standard for comparison, and if the market feels an unmet need, then they'll "like" something if it's the only thing on offer.

      I mean, imagine you're the only prostitute in some remote mining boomtown. You can be ugly as fuck, and you'll still make BANK from those miners.
      Same here.

      Plus, it's ultimately a fanfic. I don't know if you really know the genre, but, it's pretty representative of fanfic in general.

      I'm not trying to defend the product -- my opinion is up there for all to see -- but, it's weird that you don't realize how heavily people rely on RELATIVE judgments. People don't make absolute judgments in a vacuum.

  • I'm safe then -> didn't read the book. Ahaha

    I did see the movies though... and funny enough I saw the porno version first, and then I was absolutely disappointed about the actual movie loooool. The actor doesn't have 1/3 of the carisma of the porn guy. Total disappointment

    • There's a porn version? Of something that's basically soft porn already?

      What's the difference?

    • Ahhh, it was inevitable that someone would make it. And it came out before the actual movie (that's why I saw it, cause I was looking to tor**** the actual movie, but it wasn't available and that version was in the results :p )

      It has a bit of a plot (which I don't remember xD), but it involved an interview (which was a spoiler for me), and then straight up sex of course, because she was a virgin (totally non-believable). But the way that the actor talks and behaves (and his physique too) is much more dominant (macho) than the actor from the actual movie.

      The rest of the plot was just some excuses that lead to straight up sex.. I'm not sure if there was much kinkiness apart from some light spanking.

    • Interesting lol

  • I have only one thing to say about this article. You need to use more Emma Stone! She's one of the sexiest women if you ask me. Just her expressions, I can only imagine what she's like between the sheets. What a hot little minx.

  • I checked the beginning of 50 Shades of rape and I wasn't impressed by it. It seemed like a waste of time to me, so I did not even begin with it.
    Yes, that book is REALLY bad. So bad It's overrated.
    Just ugh!

    And people actually overthink it? Damn!

    • Could you be interested if you read it as unintentional camp/comedy?

      ... or even as a pure marketing lesson?

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    • marketed as trade paperback rather than a "romance novel". Honestly, that's the biggest difference on the girl side, is just magnitude.

      I mean... girls have always read romance novels and had fantasies. But girls tend to be WAAAYYYY better than guys at drawing a line between fantasy and reality, and at keeping each thing on the proper side of the line.

    • Hm yeah, I was trying to make a point with that.

      "when I hear GUYS talking about whether kissing/cunnilingus/whatever is "inherently submissive","
      Ehrrr, I have my own way of thinking in that regard but this given case I cannot say anything for sure because I haven't read 50 shades o raep myself, however I don't think it is relevant to this book. It's kind of dull.
      As for my own opinion on it, I think kissing girls is just an act to show affection? I never had a girlfriend and I'm also a virgin, so that's what I think. Submission is not relevant here.

      As for the obsessive appearing "dominant" men, I believe they believe in that stereotype. There was some statistics, that also proved, that females prefer being submissive and men to be dominant. But I do know, that it depends from person to person. Merely relying on stats gives you only an assumption with a highly likely rate of applicable preference.

  • " I'm one of the most sexually submissive creatures that ever rolled off the machines of God's North American manufacturing works. "
    Thats a very interesting statement,
    It brings to mind an image of Jesus having angels assemble your body on a conveyer belt in detroit

  • This comment won't have much to do with the take buuuttt...

    The way you talk about some guys being attracted to innocence and awkwardness in a girl makes me wonder if you think guys who like those traits in a girl are less of men or are destined to be rapists or something. Cause this isn't the first time I've seen you allude to your opinions about that.

    • Well, there's innocence and there's innocence. And there's "attracted" and there's "attracted". You know what I mean?

      It's one thing to have a certain kind of adoration, for a woman who's managed to float through life without getting caught up in so many of its troubles. *That* is neither rapey nor creepy; it's perfectly wholesome (as are the guys who usually exhibit it).

      On the other hand, it's quite another thing to be drawn to someone who just doesn't understand what the fuck you're doing, and thus can't really offer any sort of genuine challenge to it.
      That's like playing a game on level 1 for yr whole life, or just using cheat codes or something. It's a major character flaw -- not to mention how badly it can fuck up the innocent counterpart who just isn't ready for it.

  • I'm glad I didn't read the book or see the movie. It's kinda funny that Tyler Perry (I think that's who it was) made a parody of it called "50 shades of Black." I actually wanted to see that movie more (maybe I'll rent it now of these days).

    I did remember hearing the "outlash" from the 50 shades of Grey movie though. Not good.

    • I haven't seen the movie.
      Ironically, I think (iirc, from what I read) the protagonist was portrayed as at least *somewhat* more capable -- or, if you will, at least somewhat less of a dipshit, with at least a modicum of agency over her own fate -- in the movie.

  • LOL @ people who buy such shit and waste their time. Dominance and submission are not predefined and permanent roles for each human beings. Unless of course, they're ridiculously monotonous.

    • Not my place to judge that.

      I mean, you could just as easily try to say that anyone who isn't bisexual is "ridiculously monotonous", too. Because, y'know, being straight is such a predefined and permanent role. (:
      Slippery slope.

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    • Being dom or sub is absolutely NOT "in our hands". The origins of that -- for those of us for whom it's a real thing, and not just a dabbling interest -- go all the way back to early childhood.

      I discovered my sexual submissiveness before I even had clue no. 1 what sex was at all.
      I wrote about that here:

      This is EXACTLY THE PROBLEM I'M DESCRIBING IN THE TAKE. Because of the influence of that book, people have started to think about these things as though they were malleable things that are "in our hands", almost like hobbies. No. No, they aren't. They run every bit as deep as sexual orientation does.

    • Well, thanks Jesus! I'm fucking exceptional then. I am versatile.

  • Lmfaooo at you if you think these nerds even get laid OP I see this question like everyday baha I've never heard about chick mentioning that she wanna be dominated or wanna be dominant or shit. And I've never said shit like that eigther, u just pick amd pound lmao those words are creepy

  • The book is just bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. It sends the wrong message to both males and females alike, and makes everything into a game. Relationships and especially sex is NOT a game. I wish, very much wish, this series of books had never been written. I can count of both my hands the number of relationships that have ended because of this book, and all because the girl sought out the fantasy instead of taking care of the reality of the relationship she was in. The people who are reading this book and believe it represents reality are not only delusional, they’re pathetic. Yes. I have very strong opinions about this topic. What this book has done to people is so wrong on an epic level.

    • You've actually known THAT many relationships that have ended specifically because women chased bdsm fantasies? Srsly?

    • Yes. I'm quite serious. I've known quite a few since that damn book hit the reading market that have ended because of their BDSM fantasies. It is quite sorrow that they gave up what they had for something they knew very little about and the reality is never what a person fantasizes about anyway. It is really hard when you are friends with both sides of the couple and you have to listen to them both for different reasons why they no longer can be with each other because one or the other has a BDSM fantasy they wish to chase.

  • I've never read the book or watched the movie but your take reminds me of a Family Guy episode where Brain writes a book for the masses lol. Wish it Want it Do it. Its dumb and idiotic but sells.

    • lol yeah -- as I wrote down there in tenseven's thread, I'm tossing around the idea of pushing something onto the mass market. Something *better* -- but that will still sell.

      I just gotta make a formula for what sells, first.

    • Well we know what sells. Sex does lol. But the angle you wanna approach. And maybe it's not even erotica maybe it's even "how to" like let's wipe away the bullshit of what was 50 shades of grey and create how to have great sex in matriage. Write on your experiences. Just thoughts in my head.

    • yah, I'd definitely sneak something of that kind into the story -- but I wouldn't want to write anything that was explicitly a self-help book. People got walls up, against that sort of thing... they'd be much more open to taking "advice" from a fantasy character, regardless of whether they consciously recognized that taking advice is what they were doing.

      It isn't just women, either. I'm sure WAY more men have been influenced by Tyler Durden, Danny Ocean, or Bud White than by anything explicitly thrown at them as a self-help title.

  • I haven't read or seen the book, don't think I need it. Good perspective.

    In nature, I'd like to know this for sure, but the sperm thinks it is nailing that egg... right... drilling into it... then it gets sucked in and it doesn't leave, or can't. Its consumed!
    There ya go, dominance and submission at a low level and its all good lovin'!

  • Never read the book. Was unfortunate enough to waste part of my life on the film. The script/acting was like watching a two year old trying to make a join the dots drawing. It was always going to be crap, but somehow they managed to make it even worse.

    I just feel so sorry for Don Johnson.

  • Never read it, never plan on doing it.
    Masturbating is the most awkward time of the day.
    Just you and your computer screen. If you look at it from the outside it's almost ridiculous, no?

    • Nah... if it's a man I'm into, I *love* watching him pleasure himself.

      (And it's a quick study in EXACTLY what feels best to him, too -- all I have to do is copy whatever he's doing with my own hands, and then add some extra flourishes of my own, and... bam, instant perfect lover. I swear, girls are stupid if they don't take advantage of this. It's like an answer key to the boy's pleasure.)

      I wouldn't want to see it with some random dude... but, when you've got a girl who's into you someday, she'll like it.

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    • Time? lol
      Paying attention to stuff takes the same amount of time as not paying attention to stuff!

    • I'm lazy XD

  • The sad thing is all of these (butthurt) people fail to realize it's fiction and its sole purpose is entertainment. Taking cues from fiction (not to mention, poorly written one) and applying it in real life is... sad :<

    2 cents

  • My biggest problem with the books (yes I read them) was he was more of a stalker then anything else. The BDSM was fanciful, but within the realms of possibilities. As for his history of being a sub first then a Dom is based on real life, many people learn how to be a Dom by studying under another Dom. I certainly have a few ex lovers who I worked with who became quite dominant in their lives, and from many discussions I've had with both armature and pro Doms it's the usual path.

    Now I've done both porn and live BDSM shows so... and I was in those circles for quite a while (I still have a semi active fetlife account). I've also considered doing a shibari exhibition, but I've been out of it for the most part since before those books broke.

    • Interesting, thanks for yr comment.

      I can see "studying under another Dom", but that's worlds away from being submissive and then just magically flipping a switch. That's... insulting, to those of us whose orientation (in terms of dom/sub) is deeply hardwired -- it's totally trivializing something that isn't trivial, and that is in fact part of our fundamental sexuality.
      In my case, I had submissive fantasies long before I even had sexual fantasies at all. For me, being fundamentally submissive is every bit as hardwired as being 100% straight... so, the way the CG character is written, to me, reads analogously to "This character was straight as a teenager, but then became gay." Uhhhm not how life works.

    • I can see that. From my experiences if someone wants to Dom, at least well, they must submit. No it's not ideal but you can't effectively control the situation unless you understand sub space, you know that place in your mind where you just become the sub. But subbs do not need to be a Dom, as the whole thing is about letting go of control. Did you see my mytake about sub males? www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a21609-a-brief-overview-submissive-men Honestly though there are too many mistakes an inexperienced Dom can make, some even life threatening.

  • Great take - Totally agree about overthinking - I am at a loss because I haven't read the book or seeing the film just an aside - A quote I read in the paper from some review, " A book about a billionaire, so romantic - If he had been on minimum wage, it would have been a episode of Criminal Minds"

    • Yah, the whole notion of "stalking is OK if yr net worth is high enough" doesn't rub ME the right way, either. lol

  • Bdsm is just a game, I can enjoy it only with one woman , where the perversions are emotional before physical
    It's only about compatibility , we both understand it and want it
    Bdsm became popular cause it's cool to say you are into it, but in real most of these fans are not into it

  • So what do you think that caused it to be so succesful?

    • First-mover advantage, mostly. Almost entirely. There really wasn't anything else like it on the mass market before.

      I mean, there were like 10,000,000,000 fanfics, but this was the first one that really got launched onto the mass market by a major publisher. Honestly, this could have been one of thousands of other fanfics -- this author just happened to be in the right proverbial place at the right time.

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    • When I was a kid the "Story of O" was making the rounds again after the free love thing was peaking. Ever read it?

    • @Intraluminal Yep, it's right here on mah shelf... in Catalan, of all possible things.


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What Girls Said 17

  • I love your mytake and agree about the word bitch. I call guys bitches LOL

    • 😂😂 You...

      I can totally imagine you being like "c'mon you little slut..." to some guy lol

    • @redeyemindtricks really? I didn't think my comments came off as dominant. I just meant when I insult guys.

    • oh hahah, well, you've mentioned you have a dominant side.

      Plus... Not just dominant, necessarily. I'll call my husband a "little slut" if I'm just being a brat who wants mah ass beat in all the good ways <3

      Srsly... Just about any word can communicate just about anything.

  • I appreciated that take.

    I read that book a few years ago and I had close to none sexual experience. Were you right about it influencing people's views on sex? That's totally true. I think ever since I've read that I've had that sexual fantasy about forced, dominating role play.

    This book is poison for the naives.

  • I read it lol, I didn't like it either. Something about the main girl rubbed me the wrong way, she was wide eyed and helpless. Then when she let him go too far then got angry about it, like why didn't she just tell him to stop? He can't read her mind. I like your style of writing, it has the clarity that walls of text lack 👌🏾

    • ahah thanks for the kind words <3

      Yeah, I'm not sure what the author was trying to paint as *attractive* to the CG character. I mean... in the real world, slipping and falling on yr face multiple times is not how you land the hot guy ahah

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    • There are but a lot seem to withhold their wisdom rather than sharing it. You, on the other hand, let it spill on everyone who reads whether they like it or not 😂

    • lol... privileges of fast typing, I suppose

  • I have heard plenty of people claim it was this book that got people thinking about BDSM and brought it into the spotlight.

    I suppose im lucky. It was literature that made me aware of BDSM but not Fifty Shades. No, I was lucky enough to come across a tasteful comic written by somebody who actually practices and understands the human psyche.

    Sucks to be the rest of you who was sucked in by this drivvle.

    • What comic, if you don't mind?

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    • Let me know what you think!


    • I checked it out. Gna have to explore it more when I have more time -- or I might even just bite and order the bound version from amazon, it's only a few bucks (I really hate reading books, or even anything approximating books, over the internet -- call me weird, but I have to *smell* a book to fully experience it ahah)

      I like how most of the dialog boxes seem to be the characters' inner thoughts. At least in the pages I clicked through.

      Yep, I called them dialog boxes. #nurdgurl #itshopeless

  • Perfectly well written.
    I read the first book and half way through, I stopped reading it. Terrible represention of a sub. It wasn't even bdsm. More like a guy forcing a naive girl into sex slave acts, which she didn't want to be part of and had no idea wth was going on! But since she didn't want to lose a hottie with mommy issues, she dealt him. Ughh

    • Ikr?
      And... what, exactly, was the CG character supposed to be *attracted* to? Her literally falling on her face TWICE in the first couple chapters? Ahahah

      Also did you catch the Ana/Mia references? (as explained in tenseven's thread here) Fucking fuck.

  • Never read or watched 50 Shades but everyone kept telling me the writing quality is at the level of Twilight - unimpressive. If that's the case I'm glad I read Red Phoenix novels and the like long before 50 Shades came out.

    • The writing is really bad. Not just composition-wise, but even in terms of basic character insights.
      You'll laugh at this, but... after I read the sex scenes, I was genuinely surprised to find out that the author was actually a woman!

      But... it *did* start out as a Twilight fanfic, what'd ya expect lol.

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    • Yeah. There tend to be *massive* differences, actually. You can usually tell the sex of the author by the time you're just 1 or 2 paragraphs into an erotic story.

      One of the most obvious differences is that male authors focus on sensual descriptions of the female characters, and not the male ones.

      Beyond that, they tend to describe MUCH less of what's going on inside the characters' heads and emotions, focusing instead on the literal sex acts themselves. (When they *do* try to write what goes on inside a female character's head, they're pretty awful at it, too. This is what made me think for a moment that 50 shades may actually have been written by a man -- because the female protagonist's thoughts were SO badly written, and so caricatured/campy/unintentionally cartoonish, that I couldn't even empathize with her!)

      Perhaps the worst thing that almost ALL male erotica authors do is give a VERY SPECIFIC physical description of the female characters, *right at the outset*. Sometimes

    • they even go so far as to specify heights, weights, measurements, etc -- which makes it pretty much impossible for a female reader to identify with those characters, unless she happens to be exactly the same size. ("Sue stood a little over five feet tall, with perky full breasts..." uhmm ok I'm outta here, lol)

      I mean, a lot of this is probably just conditioning -- I think the men's stories are pretty heavily influenced by porn, and the women's stories less so. But yeah

  • I'll be honest. I once tried to read that book and it was so dumb I just couldn't do it. Not even for entertainment purposes just to bash it later on. What a buzzkill...

    • I can read REALLY fast... ahah
      Plus, it's... research. srsly.
      I'm tossing around the idea of writing some mass-market smut just to make easy money, so, I gotta calibrate what the audience wants, y'know?

      I forgot to hashtag this take lol... hopefully they'll add the tags for me.

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    • Yeah! If only they would channel their self control. Hopefully they will

    • I can't believe there's a how-to on b&p. Yuck.

  • Quite simply put, this is why I haven't read The Book That Shall Not Be Named.

    • lol "the book that shall not be named"

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    • Oh, that, I do believe. I just don't know if I could read it. I think the cringe factor is too high.

    • lol wait until you have a sufficiently large group of girls together... srsly

  • Tbh, despite my lifestyle, I have never read the book or seen the film.

    I DID watch the doco though :)

    • Documentary? Like, about what?

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    • yeah, I mean... I'm looking to it as a blueprint for success in the current market, tbh.

      It's objectively a bad book -- but it was still wildly commercially successful. Which means the field is wide open for a *better* book. (If the field had less potential, then the book would actually have to be decently good to achieve that much success. But, this is pure first-mover advantage.)
      So, I just may go ahead and write one, one of these days here.

    • I'll look forward to that while I still struggle with my screenplay that I manically keep editing and rewriting.

      Cheers xo :)

  • I still can't believe people claim its a rape book like seriously.

    • I wouldn't call CG a rapist, but he's definitely a stalker, and definitely controlling to well beyond the point of abusive (taking away her own computer? controlling her internet access? ffuuuuuu...)

    • I think its the most retarded thing ever because its like do you see her claiming rape in the books/movies no? then stfu lol

  • You honestly read the book? I mean... You got to the last page? You are my hero! I couldn't, it was SO BAD! How can anyone publish it? And I'm not criticizing the plot here (It's awful tho) the writing is so ridiculous! Where was the editor? I stopped at the 5th page I guess... Could not make myself read something so poorly written. I feel bad for the people who like that... Seriously.
    Haven't watched the movie cause it doesn't seem interesting but heard it made what I tought to be impossible... Was even worst than the book :O

    • I read REALLY fast. Plus, I eventually want to write something myself for that same mass market, so, I gotta learn what's working rn. (:

      Srsly tho-- we got like 8 of us girls together and just started roasting the shit out of that book... reading the worst-written passages out loud ahahah. I swear, I haven't laughed that much or that hard in years.

    • OH PLEASE! Write and show the world what is a well written book on the subject. Honestly, I could not belive when I started reading... I knew it was a fanfiction and all but you expect that the publisher would at least make it "less horrible" cause it seems like a 14 year old wrote it (a 14 year old that's repeating English for the third time).
      Envy you I would never be able to do that... Never ever going to touch the book ever again not even for the purposes of roasting it hahaha

    • ahah well... whatever the publisher did, it obviously worked -- I mean, the author is worth almost $100 million now, after the movie deals.

      But, yeah, I've got some projects in the works (:

  • Go #TeamRJ @RJGraveyTrain

    I mighta just "learnt" something lass 🙋

  • Amen to that sister, fucking preach!!!

    I have to admit to finding the BDSM community equally guilty of turning every single aspect of intimate relationships into D/s dynamics... and then look down on those who don't feel the need to have that constantly... or don't subscribe to one singular dynamic... I think that the best way to amazing sex is not prescribed scenes and dynamics but really figuring out what turns you AND your partner on... man, when you reach that level of trust where you can be degraded and beaten and know that the person doing it loves you with all their soul... yeah... that's some awesome shit right there...

  • ahhh my lips are sealed lol.

    i think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you. but to each their own.

    • Yeah, I remember you appreciated the book.
      Hey, you're far from the only one... the author is, after all, worth something like $85 million now. lmao.

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    • He's guna be a chiropractor.

      He's very extroverted lol I'm actually pretty shy at first, especially when it comes to guys. I'm worried that I'm just "convenient" for him. Yeah he could be spending his time with other people too, but still. I think it's weird he doesn't plan ahead

    • Yeah, if he's actually the more extroverted one then that does strike me as weird, and I don't think you're out of line at all to be concerned about it.

      If I were you, I'd just bring it up the same way you brought it up here. Tell him you enjoy yr time with him, but that you're sometimes afraid you're just a "convenient option" for him -- and that you just need him to prove it to you, through actions, if he values you more.

      I wouldn't bring up the extrovert/introvert thing in a conversation like that, but, yeah. Unless he thinks YOU would rather just chill, and he's just reading you wrong... do you think that might be a possibility?

  • I kinda disagree with "No sex act is inherently "dominant" or "submissive"...";
    I'm naturally dominant and always on top.

    • You're saying that woman-on-top is ALWAYS "dominant"?
      (Or that being on the bottom is ALWAYS "submissive", and that's why you avoid it?)

      Oh dear... Sweetheart. Honestly I feel sorry for you -- limiting yr sexuality so severely, for basically no reason at all.

      Just do some thought experiments. Pick random combinations of dom/sub/neutral and sex acts, and use yr imagination to make them work together.
      For instance, if you're on top, but the man is just lying back and making you *perform* for him... who's "dominant"?
      If you lie back, spread yr legs, give that come-hither look and say "You BETTER please me, boy..." -- then who's in control there?

    • Nobody is making me perform, I do it because it turns me on ;)

  • I didn't like that book either. It was really cheap reading. So fake and shallow, and repetitive and artless. Is "holy shit" even a word? And the whole thing is materialistic, without so much as a decent story to it. An idiot dreaming about everything you can buy in a store in a boring materialistic order.
    (The only useful idea in it was the relationship contract. It makes sense. Do things in the right order. First know what you want, then find out if what you want is what the other person wants too or is at least able to agree to - in writing. Then make love, fall for each other, get married and have babies. We are doing it the other way around these days. First people get pregnant, then they decide to be in a relationship because of the baby, then they get married, then they find out that they are falling in love. But shortly after they discover what they want, and that they are not able to give each other what the other person needs. And finally they get divorced.) And even that idea was so mechanically implemented that a 2 year old could tell the author was trying to sugar coat that idea and feed it to the audience.
    I'm so sorry that this sort of junk even has a market. How low our society has fallen... what a pity.
    Try reading "Cashelmara" by Susan howatch. You will see what a work of art it is.

    • "How low our society has fallen"
      ^^ Easy to toss out complaints like this one, but WWII-era dime novels weren't any deeper lol. And neither were the Canterbury Tales, tbh... Cheap entertainment has always been a thing.

      It isn't the junk factor that concerns me; it's the distortion of certain ideas. And the notion that it's ok for a guy to be a stalker if he's rich enough, and the not-so-subtle pro-ana subtext... and and and.

      I'm not a fan of how they did the whole relationship contract thing, either. First, it was unilateral -- I hope I don't need to point out the problem there. Second, it didn't have much to do with an actual *relationship*; it was mostly just minutiae. Third, if you have to make yr "sub" sign contracts, I guess you aren't so "dominant" after all, now, are you. (:

    • Right! :-)

  • I've both read the book and seen the movie and I'd have to say, I think too many people give way too much credit to either for how it has either changed or shaped people's sexual experiences from that point forward. For example: I read tons of books where someone is murdered by some maniac killer. It's practically in every thriller, and yet, after reading such fiction and seeing such movies, my instinct is not, let me go try that because it's a fiction and life unlike fiction, has real consequences. Will you get those 5 people who do read something and do somehow decide to do it, of course, but considering on mass how many people read 50 shades or read thrillers and their lives remain exactly as they were before, I certainly don't think this book has inspired a sexual revolution. It may have wrongly informed a few million people about BDSM, but other than that, not so much.

    People in the BDSM world were already in that world. Granted some nubes on the fence might have been slightly more encouraged to get into the world after reading/seeing the book/film, but they already had a certain proclivity to want to try it. I think from the male perspective, the good ones anyway, have been trained not to hurt women in anyway, even playfully, and so the idea that they are suddenly out there with whips and chains... and women are going for that in droves, strikes me as a fiction in and of itself, because they no more want to be whipped and beat up, than do their male counterparts.

    • No, it really *did* open up a whole new world to a bunch of people whose thoughts had never run anywhere close to it.

      The "n00bs on the fence" would have already known enough to know that the book is bullshit, and that its portrayal of d/s is laughable. They aren't the issue.

      There really WERE a whole bunch of 40-something and 50-something housewife types whose minds were suddenly blitzed with this idea that they might actually have certain tendencies of which they'd been completely unaware for their whole lives. That was absolutely a thing that happened.

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    • An uptick is not an avalanche given again the percentage of those as a whole who did read the book/see the movie, and it had no relevant effect in their lives. I think the bigger phenomenon is the actual numbers of people who amazingly picked up an actual book to read, lol!

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