What Aziz Ansari's Misfortune Has Taught Us Men About Dating Etiquette in 2018

The Aziz Ansari controversy seems particularly explosive in that it isn't as cut and dry as many of the other high profile sexual assault instances. In the context of this website, I think it is a particularly interesting situation to dissect, because it is an issue that's been talked about many, many times by women on here.

What Aziz Ansari's Misfortune Has Taught Us Men About Dating Etiquette in 2018

I think the issue really comes down to this--why aren't men more "respectful" of women these days? And, is there a legitimate way to destabilize the power balance so that it's not so one sided in favor of being a man? But it's not about power it's just common sense, you say. Well, I'd disagree. Aziz never forced to have sex, technically, based on her account in which she never verbally protested to what he was doing to the point where he kept going anyway. Yes, he'd "try again" minutes later, but he never simply ignored her and took advantage of her body while she protested and fought him. This is a very grey area that I know a lot of men struggle with both young and old. They think of hooking up like a game and in a game you have to progress levels, use strategies, and ultimately "win" through persistence and skill. Compassion doesn't occur to them until it's too late and yet I would argue that most of these men would feel awful if they could in fact realize it from the woman's perspective.

What Aziz Ansari's Misfortune Has Taught Us Men About Dating Etiquette in 2018

But to the point of this being about power. Let's play devils advocate and say that basically he did nothing wrong and women are just pissed with the fact that so many guys are only interested in them for sex. That, in a sense, Aziz rejected this woman the minute he made her meet him at his place instead of picking her up at hers like a gentleman. The meetup location, the rushed dinner, the first kiss to oral sex switchup, the obnoxious pointing to his dick until she sucked it, it all was really just one message over and over again: that she was not worthy of being anything but a hookup to him. And, that hurt her understandably. And, that hurts a lot of women understandably.

Her account of what happened with Aziz is not revenge porn, but I don't think it's target is to dismantle sexual assault as much as it is to destabilize men's power on dating. It's to stop guys not from being rapists (rape really isn't at the core of the issue in this case) but from basically being jerks. It's about telling men that it hurts to be rejected in this way. And, in this way, it's a very helpful account because it's bringing attention to us all that pressuring a girl who likes you and wants to be treated like a potential girlfriend like a girl you just want to have sex with is a form of rejection thats more emotionally harmful than physically harmful.

What Aziz Ansari's Misfortune Has Taught Us Men About Dating Etiquette in 2018

Aziz may lose his career not for being a rapist but for being a "typical guy" as she herself noted in her account. He's being embarrassed and networks may not want to take the chance betting that knowing this about Aziz is going to make you not want to watch him so they may just pull the plug on his work to be safe. And, in a sense, we men should feel embarrassed for acting this way. He should have been upfront.

He should have made it clear that his intention was just to hook up with her. There seems to have been nothing in their prior conversations to make it actually clear that she wanted to hookup, instead he knew she liked him and that he stood a reasonable chance of taking advantage of that fact to get what he wanted from her.

What Aziz Ansari's Misfortune Has Taught Us Men About Dating Etiquette in 2018

Bringing it back to the topic of us men, we need to look hard at this outdated system of "if i wine and dine her and be nice to her I can try to have sex with her." Yes, if she is making it clear she wants to have sex because you have such an instant connection then yes by all means but taking a girl for dinner doesn't mean you get to try to have sex with her and pressure her (even softly) if she's wanting to take things slower and get to know you. Trust me I get it--a lot of times the girl just isn't hot enough to warrant being your girlfriend in your opinion and you don't want to take things slow and let her get to know you, you'd rather just ditch her. But, clearly what women are saying to us with this account is that it's better to ditch them early on in the date than to try to later at the end of the date pressure them for sex they clearly don't want yet...

What Aziz Ansari's Misfortune Has Taught Us Men About Dating Etiquette in 2018

Oh, and as an aside that has nothing to do with the above, him performing oral on her after the first kiss is just bad sex no matter what kind of relationship it is.


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Most Helpful Girl

  • Based on what I’ve heard, this is simply a case of someone regretting their choice to have sex with someone. She was not raped or assaulted or harassed or pressured or otherwise mistreated. She simply chose to pretend she was okay with something that she wasn’t actually okay with. That’s unfortunate but it’s not Aziz’s fault. It’s not like he was her boss and she felt she would risk her job by saying no, or anything like that.

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    • True, but the article talks of how he was a douche by not stating his intentions clearly of wanting to hook up with the girl but instead rejected her by not considering her as a potential girlfriend by having sex with her on the first date.

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    • @Dio1982 There are rape, assault, or harassment situations where the victim shouldn’t have to voice their dissent in order to make the situation wrong. If the victim is barely conscious or obviously incoherent, if it’s a statutory rape situation, if they’re a minor etc, if the victim is the subordinate of the instigator and is concerned about losing their job, or other issues like that. A verbal “no” or obvious attempt to physically escape is not ALWAYS the be all and end all of what makes a situation inappropriate or predatory. But in this case, Aziz did nothing wrong. The girl just made a mistake and did something she regretted. She should have asked what his intentions were, if she cared about it. That’s it. End of story.

    • That being said, it doesn’t sound like he was being very considerate or respectful, based on her account. But that doesn’t make him a sex offender. He didn’t have any kind of power over her. She could easily have simply decided that he was being a jerk and just walked out.

Most Helpful Guy

  • What it taught men was simply that a woman can accuse you of rape when she decided she regrets her choice of having sex with you. That's all this shows, this isn't him being an asshole, he invited her to his hotel room, she knew, and I know she knew because I don't think women are brain dead unlike you and the media, what that meant. You don't ask for a secluded place where you can easily get intimate and not have the intention to do so. She also didn't resist, if she resisted she would have pushed him away and said no, she didn't by her own admission. She could have left, she did not, so again, that's not a sign that she is disinterested it was a sign that she was playing coy, women like the cat and mouse game in general and if she didn't she could have said something to end it right then and their. She didn't. Personally I don't like the guy, he is a typical SJW (not unlike yourself it seems) who is racist and sexist but doesn't even have the decency to at least have a god damn back bone BUT he did no wrong in this situation and we shouldn't be acting like he did. Again, the only thing this shows is that women can get away with destroying a mans life so never ever trust them. That's why men are refusing to be left alone with women, why business men are not doing one on ones with female subordinates like they would for male suboridinates and its ultimately hurting women but hey, its women who have chosen this its women who can fix this.

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    • True her shock that he would want to have sex would be surprising except she later says he’s being a typical guy which confirms that she absolutely knew what he was up to

    • and by her own admission she never attempted to leave and never actually told him she didn't want sex. Its real simple to tell some one that you don't want sex, its really simple to avoid the situation because unless they are a child they absolutely understand what going into some ones hotel room or bedroom means. If the genders where reversed would we even think twice about calling the guy out for claiming rape when it clearly wasn't? Of course not because we expect him to function like an adult not a child. So again, what this shows us is that we have pandered to women for far to long and have allowed them to get away with horrible things. Its shown us that we have to stop treating women like perpetual victims, to stop acting like they are children who don't know any better and start treating them like adults.

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What Girls Said 18

  • I never looked into this situation nor do I know anything what’s going on expect for what you said and a brief look at a screenshot that one user added in the comments but my opinion on the little that I did read from what you wrote... women are obviously making this world way more difficult than it needs to be.

    I’ve tried having casual sex with 2 guys and learned very quickly that I don’t like how a guy who’s uninterested in more treats me sexually. So you know what I did? Stopped entertaining guys who only wanted sex? It’s simple math. Females can protest about how guys treat them during and after sex but in the end, their choices are the problem.

    I wouldn’t expect a man who had no interest in me, barely knew me, etc. to tongue me down for hours, give me head, and make love to me then clean me up afterwards. I don’t know what fairytale world these women are trying to live in but I know that this is the case with a lot of these women coming out about celebrity men and it needs to be stopped but of course, the courts are rarely ever in a man’s favor.

    These are only going to get worst and I really wish all men could just stop putting vagina on a pedal stool and just wait for a decent female to come along because it’s not worth it.

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    • You’ll never hear a man talk about his gender as badly as you do yours

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    • I agree with almost everything you said.
      Men are putting vaginas on a pedestal, but women are trivializing men and putting just the dicks on pedestal.
      I'll explain what I meant
      Men are highly likely to be able to keep sex and emotions apart while women are highly likely to fail at it.
      But with every passing day there are more women who got with the thinking of, " oh, that lady put her her hand in fire and it burned her hand, let me try to do the same and the fire has cooled down "

      Women keep stoping on relationships, and opt for hookups which don't workout and they get hurt, but the guys they hookup with usually walk away happy because they were offered sex on a silver platter, and the took it.

      As you said, if you don't want to have sex, don't hookup, why is it so hard for so many ladies to understand?

      Sex or sexual acts that you regret the next days aren't rape or sexual assault

    • The amount of truth in this comment is shown in the number of female dislikes here lol

  • What I don't understand is why people keeps insisting that there needs to be a clear STRUGGLE for it to be sexual harassment or assault. Like the victim literally kicking and screaming and biting.
    There are three ways you can react to a situation, two of which are more widely known and the third only recently becoming a topic; fight, flight and freeze. Freeze is just as natural as the first two. A deer in headlights.
    Anyone who isn't totally self-centered and oblivious will understand that if the person you're trying to have sex with is continuously moving away, not touching you, not making eye contact, mumbling things, telling you to slow down, asking you if you can just chill, and flip flopping back and forth between half-heartedly engaging and being passive, MAYBE you should be like "yo this is probably not the right time, we should stop".
    No, she didn't kick, bite, scream and try to escape, but that doesn't make what he did any more ok. Whenever you're having sex with someone, whether you're a man or a woman and they're a man or a woman, you H A V E to analyze their behavior. ESPECIALLY if this is a completely new encounter with a new person.
    You CANNOT rely on the other person being 100% straightforward, and that they'll start kicking, screaming and escaping if they don't want to. Freezing up is just as natural. So if they're being passive, which is usually PRETTY obvious since they're not doing anything and you're the only one making any advances (pointing at your dick, clawing your fingers down her throat, grabbing her hand and moving it to your dick, asking her where she wants to be fucked and her NOT responding at all...), you should be self-aware enough to stop.
    Nothing about her account of the story is a gray area to me. To me, it's 100% about a girl who went out with a guy, got pressured to do shit she didn't want to do, was too scared to be incredibly direct about it, but still did as much as she could to move away and de-escalate the situation by asking him to chill.

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    • You're absolutely right. The only thing he s guilty of is not being a fucking mind reader. Guys don't get hints, that doesn't change, no matter the situation.

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    • This is theonly opinion worth upvote, and shame it is

    • @lazermazer thanks, I feel angered by the people who don’t understand that consent isn’t a black and white yes/no issue.

  • "If its not a HELL YES, its a no".

    That is what everyone needs to be taught about sexual consent. Do not have sex with people who are not 100% into it. Do not pester people for sex. Do not manipulate people into having sex with you. I don't see how this is hard, tbh.

    Why have sex with someone who isn't totally on board? How desperate can someone be?

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    • I get the feeling that she was too afraid or shocked to move or even object.
      He sounds like a creep.

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    • always enjoy a hearty discussion, ladies. ;)

  • What do you numpties have against “yes means yes”?

    Are y’all so desperate that you’re satisfied having sex with literally anything that stays still long enough? Do you enjoy having sex with people who aren’t all that into it?

    Cuz that’s what this really boils down to - y’all take the absence of a strong no as a green light, instead of taking the presence of a strong YES as a green light.

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    • I think here, the number one thing to prove is whether he understood the silent protest she talks about. Did he, or did he not? I do not believe he did. I really don't. I think women think men understand you. We don't! We don't have a clue. Things that make sense to you, from your perspective as a woman, make zero sense to us as men.

      I'm not angry. I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to understand better here. Because to me I see a confused man who doesn't know wtf happened. And I see you as a woman who understands what it's like to be a woman, but doesn't understand that men don't know you that well. Your comment says that he 100% knew what was going on, and pushed things because he's a bad creepy guy who takes advantage of women. Do you really believe that?

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    • @10dsw you have a really low opinion of men, don’t you? To you, men are irrational and illogical beasts, who care only about getting their dicks wet. If anyone is a misandrist here, it’s you. I’m bored of you. Goodbye.

    • @10dsw It does happen. The thing is is that the problem is that men will make this assumption based on one thing. You said that i was right in my last post but yet still think it is on the woman rather than admitting that the problem is in the male mentality which is not 99.9% of the time or men. Men are not idiots. Yes somethings can be lost in translation between two people or communication could be off so that is one thing but you are arguing that men are justified in assuming something based on nothing.

      It is not me with the immature approach to sex.

      Regardless of how skewed I believe your perspective to be the fact remains that even if you up to this point believe one thing to be a sign as another, WOMEN are telling you how WE view it in order to stop this shit from happening. This is where men recognize what we are saying and move forward without making the same assumptions, not argue that all these women are wrong. That is the problem.

  • I've fooled around with guys like that before and it is annoying to say the least. You (as a guy) are more likely to get some action if you take it at my pace rather than rush things and freak me out. And sometimes I dont want to do things I have done in the past or maybe the guy doesn't. Honestly it is just all about having a mutual respect for one another and knowing when to stop.

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    • Yeah like I said at the end he completely skipped for play rushed dinner this kind of get to the point mindset is
      Not super sexy to a lot of women

  • In the future men who are public figures will have to give their groupies contracts to sign with a lawyer, a notary and a witness present for both parties in order to protect themselves.

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  • He is a douche and she didn’t have the courage to stand up for herself. And sometimes it’s hard to say no sometimes but another issue is that older movies teach men predatory behaviors in which “no” is just being hard to get and they try harder until it becomes a “yes” ... and that gives the situation a gray are.

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    • Both of these are legitimate issues. Sometimes men don’t take no for an answer. Sometimes women don’t know how to stand up for themselves or they feel like they will be hurt if they say no (e. g. lose their job). However, based on what I’ve read, that’s not what happened here. Did she ever actually say no? Having regrets for agreeing to have sex when you didn’t feel totally comfortable is not the same thing as being raped/assaulted. People aren’t mind readers.

    • @samhradh_leannan The original article is pretty clear on the fact she never said no. And that she only voiced her concerns after leaving his flat. Another question... if she felt she was attacked why blog it online months afterwards , instead of reporting it to the police...

    • @ManwithaConran There are extenuating circumstances where something can be rape, assault, or harassment without the victim actually saying no. But this does not seem like one of those times.

  • Aziz is handsome, successful, and funny. I'm sure he could have had several options for a casual hookup. It's really unfortunate that he took advantage of someone who may have genuinely cared for him as a person and not just his money/fame. From the way you described her, it sounds like she was trying to defend his character, even while expressing the pain he caused her.

    I hope guys learn from this. I know a number of girls who are open to casual, no strings attached, sex. I wish guys would stop turning genuine girls into the exact jaded, "harpies" they love to wine about.

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    • I think people overestimate how much celebrity men can get away with. Sure, they are rich and often attractive, but women are still women and don't like to be used or violated. The men themselves think they are god and that the women must want them, but in reality the women are turned off by the douchey behavior.

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    • She hit on him hard at a party.

    • @raspberryo416 I don't know the details of the story. I'm responding to the Take authors point of view and agreeing that men should have a healthy amount of respect for other people's time and feelings. Especially women when it comes to sex and objectification. I'm not sure what you're ranting on my comment about.

      by the way, if you find him unnatractive then good for you. I'm just as entitled to my own opinions and I wish you'd afford me the same respect I'm advocating for for you as a fellow human being.

  • I don't know what the claims are, but he did it. I just look at him and know he did it. Burn him at the stake!!!

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  • It's a shame that his constructed image is so different from the real him. He's supposed to be a feminist and be the progressive soft guy and in reality he is dishonest is his intentions and pushy for his sexual desires with no regard for some women.

    I feel for her, to be mislead and then have a fun night with someone you like go sour because all they want is sex, and sex right now.

    She deserved to know his intentions and he did ignore several cues that she didn't want sex and to try and change her mind is so low and disgusting.

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    • How did he mislead?

      How did he not show regard? He didn't force her to do anything.

      Being pushy can be douchey but people are allowed to change their mind and people are allowed to try and change others minds.

    • @AllThatSweetJazz dude have you ever heard of "no means no?"

    • @Sasha_Kotelenets

      She didn't say no.

      Plus if no becomes a yes and you decide to go through with it anyway then that overrules the first no -- that's changing your mind.

      Furthermore there is such a thing as a token no, which throws a wrench in the works.

  • Very good article. And very well written. It get's exactly to the point.

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  • OMG! I just laugh at the dinner part. He must think she is cheap ass!

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  • Who cares?

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  • He's an ass and she's an idiot.

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  • If only u didn’t block me...

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  • It's ridiculous, girl just wanted her 15 minutes of fame

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    • She’s not famous it was anon

    • Well she's getting attention from it now, whether good or bad I can't tell who's supporting her

  • He acted like a douche, not necessarily a criminal. That being said, celebs who yell at Uber drivers get the same treatment.

    It sounds like she did give verbal warning that she didn’t want sex, but not very clearly. “I don’t want to feel forced” and “Lets do something else” while pushing him away are clear signals.

    But he didn’t force her... she gave in out of annoyance or feeling helpless or something. Not the same as rape, but still unhealthy sexuality.

    I think she was upset that this bro who presents himself as Mr. So Sensitive is a douche - the same as if you learned a celeb famous for charity work or a preacher stiffed a waiter on a tip. (Things like this are also highly publicized by the current media)

    i wouldn’t even doubt if the author was manipulated into framing the story the way she it by the reporter, too. She attached a typical “celebs behaving badly” story to a legit movement to push her name out there.

    Our sick clickbait culture isn’t doing us any good.

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    • Also, I think the anonymous chick would probably have been up for sex until Aziz turned her off by being too pushy and sloppy. When a guy gets like that, the idea of enjoyable sex seems impossible.

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    • Agree with this commentor right here

    • I don’t feel sorry for Aziz, though. He wasn’t being an awkward fool - he was being a jerk and there’s no way he couldn’t know it. If he acts like that when he drinks, maybe he shouldn’t drink. People are hung up saying “what did she expect?” are giving him a free pass. He invited someone he’s built no trust with into his home and behaved very badly. Like I said with the Uber example - near strangers have no legal or even moral obligation to keep quiet about bad behavior.

      To go with the “tea/consent” analogy. If Aziz had been a tea shop, he’d have been pushing his tea in the face of anon woman, pestering “take my tea, take my tea, take my tea, take my tea” like a child. His yelp review is -5 and maybe he needs to evaluate how he treats others.

  • I dont see what he actually did wrong. The whole thing stinks of a set up. Literally I could do the same to any guy I hook up with or Netflix and chill and just set him up lile this with accusations and of course a few others will join me in a witchunt for money. No doubt she will be on talk Shows and in magazines.
    What it teaches men is that women cannot be trusted I'm afraid.

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    • and also again that men need to be really clear about what they want or they could be set up i don't see how our points clash

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    • @raspberry0416 "triggered" that he only wanted her as a fling. I say he should sue, that's what Micheal Flatley did.

    • You should read her account of the events here
      https://babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355
      Then you would understand why she was upset.

What Guys Said 38

  • I read the original post on Babe and the subsequent messages. Opinion is clearly divided - some in support of this woman, some in support of Aziz Ansari... and those who think the article itself is misandry in its ugliest form.

    For me, the story reads like this. Woman meets celeb, woman fancies celeb, celeb fancies fan... they flirt, make out, take photos (some of which are in the original article), get undressed... then he goes too fast and ruins the ambience. She has second thoughts, but continues anyway (even Babe points out she went down on him more than once...). When she finally leaves, she feels rotten and tells him. He is mortified and apologises. This is a typical night out for many singletons, and that should have been the end of it.

    This woman asks the online community if she can consider herself a victim of an atrocious act of aggression. No she can't. All he was guilty of, was being a complete disappointment in real life (compared to the character he plays in one of his shows; something she herself admits was a factor in her doing the chasing). She chased him. She wasn't forced into going to the apartment. She could have left. She could have told him she had changed her mind (rather than wait till she left to text him of her discomfort). But instead she wrote an article on her experience, and posted it online. It smacks of entrapment. Had he turned out to be a stud muffin, she wouldn't be writing in to complain about it. Or maybe she would have; kiss and tell stories can get you a tidy sum from the tabloids.

    Not everyone is Don Juan or Belle De Jour every day. Like it or not, bad sex (or failure to perform on the night) is par for the course. Sometimes one of you rushes it. Sometimes the man can't get it up (or ejaculates prematurely). Sometimes the woman can't get aroused. Maybe someone says something that kills the mood. We've all had to deal with disappointing sex at some point. If this became a crime, almost every sexually active adult on the planet would be guilty.

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    • i mean i believe he pressured her but he didn't force her and i think thats at the core of the issue. is it harassment to pressure someone? its a grey area i just don't think guys need to walk anymore

    • Pressure is perfectly fine and no crime. If she has some feels about it, it is her problem and her responsibility to voice them.

      That's the problem with today's entitled princesses... life is delivered on a silver platter to them and they are so pampered and put on a pedestal that they are unfit for life and can't even form coherent thoughts of what they want or don't want.

  • My primary issue is that we're getting to the point in the conversation where the distinction between what is and is not considered consent gets so blurry that no act of agreement, verbal or otherwise, is sufficient to avoid the accusation of rape. This is partly thanks to feminism forcing every social interaction through the ideological lens of "Oppression Olympics" and power dynamics. I see it social media all the time, "it was clearly rape because he is in a position of power over her and she clearly could not escape or didn't want to risk provocation, without putting her career at stake". But, really, you could put any other "-ism" in for rape, and the outcome would be the same. "it was clearly racism because the guy was Indian and the girl didn't want to risk being labeled a racist for not sleeping with him..."

    Here's a good question: what could Aziz have done to avoid coming across as a predator or rapist, apart from simply not asking for sex? If it was any other guy, would the outcome or level of accusation have been the same?

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    • I don't think people are accusing him of rape, just impropriety.

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    • @Gypsy_x That's kind of a problem, don't you think? If all that is required for a woman to be raped is for her to *feel* raped, not actually *be* raped, then isn't all sex rape until proven otherwise? Because really, the only difference between the two--at least where this discussion is concerned--is the woman's emotional state at any given point. While emotions are relevant to sex, we're turning them into the evidence required to determine boundary and violation. Negative feelings = I was raped, rather that forceful coercion or just slight hostility = I was raped.

      If this is the low bar we're setting for what constitutes rape, it won't be long before just the man's presence in a way she doesn't fancy could be considered assault or coercion. While this might be a slippery slope fallacy, as I said before, it's getting harder and harder these days to determine what is and is not consent.

    • Thats the thing - its not rape. Noone rational is saying it's rape. The conversation is about what behaviour is appropriate and what is not. What should come of this is that men and women should not engage in sexual relations with anyone who isn't 100% keen and into it.

  • I had an experience with the girl I’m currently dating right now that pertains to this topic. We get back to her place and after making out a little, we go back to her bedroom. Everything seemed to be going well until she said out of desperation “I’m a virgin, I’m on my period” as I was reaching for her underwear. I was no longer in the moment and instantly became concerned for her because I took those words as her not being ready for this. It turns out she wasn’t really into to it at all and she said she just went along with it because she thought it was something I wanted to do. As she continued to tell me over text how that night upset her, I became frustrated because I felt it all could’ve been avoided if she had just spoken up about it earlier instead of just going through the motions. Also because I never wanted her to feel like she was obligated to do something. She would end up not speaking to me for a few months but eventually reached back out and we started dating again, still are to this day.

    But one thing I made clear to her after we reconnected; that thing between us can’t happen again. I told her all guys aren’t like me and care for your well being. If we end up not being together and you eventually see other guys, make it clear for the start you have no interest in partaking in sex because things may not end the way you want. She understood completely and I think that made her fall for me harder because of how much I cared for her safety.

    I get it ladies, a lot of you are beings of subtleties, indirectness, body language, etc. When it comes to anything sexually related especially dealing with a guy that isn’t your boyfriend/husband for the sake of your safety/well being don’t be this way, it’s not worth it.

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  • Excepf for many men revealing their intentions early on will completely diminish their chances of getting laid. This is just a case of the ends justifying the means.

    This whole issue is about how women want ment to only abide by their preferred methods, completely ignoring the fact that men have entirely different needs and different methods of achieving those.

    Someone will say, "just be honest in the beginning and find a woman who also just wants sex," but there's a problem with that - proportionally more men want only sex, as opposed to women. You can't have men express their desires and also get what they want nearly as often as they'd want to.

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    • You’re still justifying manipulating someone’s desire for romance for your desire for sex. I totally get where you’re coming from I do but would you want some girl to talk about like you like this? And proportionally a lot of guys meet girls thRough mutual friends or events where they both know people so her shit talking could affect you. That’s always been women’s main source of power is the ability to garner sympathy and support more than men. If your a cool funny attractive guy there will be women out there who want to mess around or maybe hope they can change you after sex. Worst case you may have to accept you need to give up hooking up as much

    • I'm not exactly saying that I support what he did - I wouldn't do it myself, I think, but I guess my point is that instead of somehow forcing men to just not want to get laid at any cost (barring rape, ofc), women should just adapt to the fact that there are such inconsiderate guys around. Telling people llke Aziz to just either reveal their intentions or go the woman's prefered long route will not solve the issue as they will still ignore either option in favour of getting laid.

      And giving up hooking up is like giving up getting tasty food - you will never be able to convince anyone to do that so instead it should be the other side that should adapt.

  • This is a joke. A grown woman if more than capable of saying no. What feminism has been fighting for for so long is giving women a voice and empowering them to be able to speak up. I don't give a shit if a girl likes a guy or not, as a 'strong woman' she should have the ability to see when a guy is only interested in her for sex and then leave if she so chooses.

    A guy is only interested in sex, big fucking deal. She should have left the moment she felt uncomfortable. Any guy who's idea of a date is the girl coming over to his house is CLEARLY only interested in sex.

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  • Basically ask if a girl wants to fuck instead of presuming and learn how to read people.

    Seems like sound everyday advice for anyone.

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  • Before you can get into a girls pants, you have to get into her head. It's important to know what type of individual she is and what is her expectations. You need to know all of that before bringing her back to the crib. So talking and reading body language is of paramount importance, especially when you'retrying to get laid.

    *Obvious it goes both ways

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    • Yeah, and some directions surely wouldn't hurt, dont you agree?

      You can't expect to drive a car to a location if you dont know the f*cking way.

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    • I did and thats what i replied to. When you are trying to understand who she is and what she wants, her actually telling you these things surely would help wouldn't it?

      And by the way, you make it seem like women are children incapable of making decisions. If she doesn't know what she wants, why would she come to your crib?
      So maybe hold them accountable for their actions and dont encourage women to be so irresponsible.

    • @lord_chilled
      us.v-cdn.net/.../n9wnp8warn7n.gif

      I was speaking from a guy's perspective and at the end I noted "obviously it goes both ways" meaning women should do the exact same. So I am saying everyone should be accountable and be responsible.

  • To be honest, I've never liked Aziz. I don't think he's funny. He's loud, annoying, not insightful, generally obnoxious and quite creepy... but I don't want this to be how his career ends.

    In that situation, Aziz pushed the boundaries way too far, and he created a situation where the girl couldn't really refuse him. He had her consent, but it was under duress. I think the dude should be lampooned for the faux-feminist-asshole he is, but technically... he did have consent.

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    • Coerced meaning to use force or persuasion in order to get what you want.

    • Your claim is that though he didn’t do anything to physically threaten her, the fact he’s male makes him automatically threatening. If you believe that, it means women can’t be alone with men, ever, because simply being in that position is a scenario where they lose all agency out of fear.

  • That's why it' always better to avoid the younger crowd... they are impulsive and irrational for the most part

    One minute she's probably excited to be with a celebrity and the next gets an emotional apiphany of how she doesn't want sex anymore and acts super submissive and silent about it --> but I bet she wasn't like that when she got his attention in the first place

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  • I feel no sympathy for her.. What she is saying could never stand up to court. But she used the media to bash someone just because she didn't like him.. She could walk away at any point but instead she gave BJs and claimed that she didn't want to do that. This is as bad as revenge porn.. She is using a platform that she knows has many feminists in it that will back up anything against a man.. i could give more arguments of how wrong she is, but that would be too long to write.

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  • I don't think Aziz did anything "wrong", per se.

    However, I've always thought he was a phony douche and this somewhat confirms it. Dude tries to be intellectual, progressive, etc, but he's just an unfunny, generic tool behind the curtains.

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  • So he's guilty of being a "typical guy" and for that deserves to lose his career? By that reckoning, most men in the world should lose their careers, including you probably.

    Yes, this was comparable to revenge porn. The goal was public humiliation and embarrassment. If she only wanted to teach guys something about dating, she could have done it anonymously: "I dated a male celebrity we'll call 'Alan' and here's what happened..." Instead she names him without naming herself, and goes into unnecessary detail about his sexual proclivities. (This was AFTER he already apologized to her.) If a man ever "outed" a woman in this way, it would be roundly condemned as slut-shaming. In Aziz's response, he should have named this woman so others could avoid her in the future.

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    • Someone has to pay the price so us other men takw them seriously I guess...

  • I read about Aziz and think the whole "movement" is getting stupid.
    Dudes are getting fired over accusations with no real follow through. After an investigation, the law found that he did rape/assault her, then he can be fired.
    However, guys are getting fired over blanket accusations that could be false.
    Aziz got head from a dumb chick, looking to exploit an actor.

    This is why I don't fuck with White girls. They will invite you over, suck your dick and ride your cowgirl style all night, and come back the next day saying you raped her.
    That does NOT compute.

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  • Whoever this guy is, he should take into consideration of what he's going to do to someone else

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  • If I was a celebrity or public figure I would make the woman sign a waiver before entering my apartment which states that I could do whatever the fuck I want with her.

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  • Both need to be upfront with what they want. Nothing she presented demonstrates to me that she was raped. She regretted having sex and simply acted like it was okay.

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  • Another Commiewood Leftist jackoff gets caught up in the snares of his own sanctimonious dishonesty. I'm popping corn.

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  • I dont really like Aziz but all This proves is how weak women really are. You can't even speak up when you don't want sex? You never should have been given the right to vote.

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  • I don't know. Whenever the discussion moves from obvious sexual assault to what people should have said or communicated when they meet, have sex, etc. I am just out of it.

    I don't even know what to say.

    I just find it weird people are actually commenting on the ritual they used in courting. Like there is some handbook or guidelines for what to say and how to transition from having dinner to going back to the apartment, and getting naked. . .

    It's like. . . no one thinks this is weird?

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    • lol it is but its part of society and culture and at least in america 2018 it seems like trying to convince a woman to be sexual when she expresses an interest in taking it slow is unacceptable. I say the solution is to either accept her offer to take it slow or say that you're not interested in taking it slow and just have her go home. Of course, a lot of this can be screened out by simply stating what you're looking for from them and letting them make their choice ahead of time thus not wasting your time or there's.

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    • @MlleCake Well, I can only talk about the women I have been with. I mean, I have faked orgasms, the whole nine. Because to some women it is important that they feel sexy. Others, I just couldn't go through with it. So It told them and they freaked out or became upset. But I just figured it was part of the deal. They felt like I lead them on. I don't think I did, but I can see how they could have interpreted things the wrong way.

      As for sexual assault that is a totally different thing. I have never had a woman force herself upon me. But being upset over a misunderstanding is commonplace. And I feel like younger men need to be extra, extra careful. I work in environments where young folks, sex, and alcohol are just commonplace.

      That is just a bad combination. Sooner or later one of the guys is going to to go jail.

    • Oh, you're right on that. The alcohol is such a huge factor.

  • This whole thing is giving me new perspective. I don't think aziz did anything wrong whatsoever. he's been chastized for not understanding a woman on a deep level. Sorry ladies, we are not women, we don't know what you're thinking. I think it's BS that women are saying he is a sexual predator. That's not true. That's women, not realizing, that men are not gods of sex, we don't all understand you like a computer. Her "non verbal protest" was probably invisible to him. He had no idea. I think it's bullshit that women are attacking him and using this situation as a "learning tool" for men. What are we supposed to learn? That you as a woman can decide at any time to turn me into a vicious sex offender? That's bullshit! I know if I had the same situation I wouldn't be able to read her mind either.

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    • And I think OP your whole theory is just crazy. The "typical man" doesn't know shit about women, is awkward around the girl he likes, gets nervous around pretty girls. The "typical man" is not some fucking playboy fuckboy out there having sex with a new woman every night! That's an extremely tiny amount of men. And we all know women love those men, because they keep fucking them. Don't blame all of men for what a very small group of players and fuckboys do.

      Is aziz a player fuckboy? I doubt it. He's just a famous guy who is using his chance to get good looking women to have sex with him. Fame. It brings women, it doesn't bring player skills. It doesn't turn him into this sex monster manipulating women and abusing them for sex. That's bullshit. It's all bullshit.

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    • Yes you may want love but cmon there aren’t some girls you wouldn’t mind plowing but wouldn’t want to actually dare or take seriously?

    • I've been used for sex. I haven't used anyone for sex. I would love to take attractive girls home and plow them till the morning. But it doesn't work like that. And if it did, it would be mutual. When it happened to me, I wanted a relationship. Otherwise, I don't even have the ability to "take a girl home to plow." I'm not a fucking player dude, are you? How many guys are players like that?

      Plenty of people are running around fucking eachother with no strings attached. Men and women, and women love this shit, don't pretend like they don't. The issue at hand is whether men are horny dogs, pushing the boundaries of sex, and pushing women into doing shit they don't want to do. That's not true. Maybe for the players, I'll believe it. But for the majority of men? I don't believe that.

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