Its a fact, women can get casual sex so much easier than men. So assuming the intention is there for both genders, why is prostitution frowned upon?

[Scrambled]

Yeah... please somebody enlighten me as to why its not a problem for a girl to get casual sex, but when a guy gets a prostitute for the same reason and HAS TO use this solution because a guy can't just get casual sex, its a problem (or illegal in most places). In this age of sexual liberation... its just so fucking stupid in my mind. Its the same thing except a man has to pay for the deficiencies (nice guy syndrome, poor, fat etc) that he lacks to attract women, whereas women dont have this problem. And ironically even the women who frown upon it, know this. So if somebody can give an alternate solution (2nd is learning how to juggle women PUA style which apparently is also frowned upon) then i am all ears. If not... dont judge a man for getting a sex worker... he just wants what a women can get so easily.

[selfishstars]

I find it really disturbing that some people are okay with having sex with another person who might not genuinely want to have sex with them and might not genuinely be enjoying themselves.

I'm not saying that there are no sex workers who enjoy their job or genuinely want to have sex with their customers, or who actually find their job pleasurable, but I think the exchange of money obscures your ability to know whether or not that's the case. Generally speaking, a sex worker doesn't genuinely want to have sex with you, they're doing it because they need the money (and in some cases, they may be trafficked and you might not know). And they're likely going to act like they're having a good time, even if they aren't, because you're paying them.

Personally, if I even suspect that someone might not want to have sex with me or that they're not enjoying themselves, it's a complete turn off to me. I would feel really shitty about it and I wouldn't be able to have sex/continue having sex with them. I find it really hard to empathize with people who care more about getting laid than they do about whether or not the other person actually wants to have sex with them and is enjoying themselves.

[Scrambled]

I know sex workers don't enjoy it, it's their job. I read a biography of a sex worker. She is doing her grocery list while a guy is screwing. She acts like she likes him. That part is a bit crap, but it's better than nothing and better than masturbation.

[selfishstars]

That doesn't really change anything about my opinion. "I know she isn't enjoying it, but I don't care, I paid her." As a sort of analogy: I'm a nurse. Sometimes my patients shit themselves or vomit all over the place. Obviously I don't enjoy having to clean up someone's shit and vomit, but it's my job. Most people feel bad about it. They're embarrassed and they apologize a lot. But some people don't give a fuck about having someone cleaning up their shit and vomit. It's my job, after all! They're the same people who treat nurses like we're servants, not actual people. It's not that I want my patients to feel bad about this stuff, it's just the natural reaction that people with empathy have. And some people lack that empathy. But it's different than sex work. People don't choose to get sick and require a nurse to take care of them. People do choose to go to a sex worker. Not to mention that on a personal level, I'd be concerned that if a guy had no problem having sex with someone

[selfishstars]

Who didn't genuinely want to have sec with them or wasn't genuinely enjoying themselves (a sex worker), how concerned would they be about whether or not their personal partners didn't genuinely want or enjoy sex? It's obviously not a requirement of sex for them. And if they view sex as a commodity or an entitlement, would they treat their personal partners in a similar manner? I bought you dinner, you owe me sex? I pay the bills, you owe me sex?

[selfishstars]

sex*

[Scrambled]

You right, she doesn't enjoy it, but its not like cleaning shit either (yes there are those unfortunate few prozzies in the human trafficking circle, but then there is abuse of people in all spheres of life). If prostitution was made legal and the stigma taken away, the criminality aspect would disappear and it would be better regulated. You choose to be a nurse (shit and all) so does a sex worker. Your reasons differ but you are there and a consenting adult is a consenting adult. Your analogy isn't right. But yes, personally having sex with someone who isn't attracted to you isn't first prize, but it sure as fuck beats a wank any day. A guy can't laid, and there is a solution to it that's consensual. End of story. And no, its not about entitlement or expectations. Its as simple as... a guy cannot get laid, and there is a solution to the problem. Done.

[selfishstars]

My point wasn't to say that nursing and sex work are the same. Although, I would argue that they are both "caring" professions. They both involve caring for the physical and emotional needs of other people. And while wiping someone else's ass and having sex with someone are both very intimate things that a person may do for another person, despite not genuinely wanting to, wiping someone's ass is far less intrusive to a person and their own body than is allowing someone to have sex with you when you don't genuinely want it. But my point in that analogy was more so that most people feel bad about making someone take care of them in an intimate way when it's not something the other person genuinely wants to do. The fact that they are getting paid doesn't change that. The difference is that a patient that needs a nurse to wipe his ass isn't choosing to be in that position and would greatly prefer to be able to take care of that "need"on their own. A "john" is someone who is choosing to

[selfishstars]

have someone take care of their intimate "need", despite the fact that they can take care of it on their own. You're bringing up legality, but I'm not talking about legality. In fact, I support the legalization of prostitution. You've asked why prostitution is frowned upon. I've explained why I personally "frown" upon it. It comes down to the mindset that a person must have towards sex in order to be fine with having sex with a prostitute. A person has to be fine with having sex with someone who likely doesn't genuinely want to have sex with them and likely isn't enjoying themselves. Their own sexual pleasure is paramount. Ultimately, what this comes down to is models of sex. There's a blog post that talks about models of sex that I'll quote from to describe what I mean by that:

[selfishstars]

"There are many different ways to model sex, many answers to the questions "So, what exactly is sex? What is it for?" I believe that once you know someone's answers to those questions, you can understand why their sexual choices make sense to them. In the economic model, sex is a consumable good, produced by women and sold to men. (And, in the nastiest implications of the model, sex can be "stolen" without losing value.) In Thomas Macaulay Millar's performance model of sex, sex is like a cooperative musical performance, ephemeral and existing only in the moment of cooperation between performers. I've seen people talk about sex in a maintenance model, in which sex is a task a women has to perform fairly regularly to keep her man contented in the relationship. There's also an achievement model, in which the goal is to do the "naughtiest" or "sexiest" thing, regardless of whether you really like it or not--Cosmo espouses this a lot, and porn tends to encourage it. And, famously,

[selfishstars]

there's the competition model of sex, in which women are the mile-markers in a race men run against each other.

Or sex can be modeled as a cooperative sport, with the participants acting as teammates encouraging and challenging each other. There's a communication model of sex, in which sex acts are a way for partners to express and strengthen their feelings for each other. Personally, I tend toward almost a utilitarian model of sex, in which the goal is to work together to attain the greatest net pleasure."
pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/09/models-of-sex.html

Prostitution is part of an economic model of sex. Sex is a commodity that can be bought, sold, or traded.

My personal model of sex is more of a utilitarian model, with aspects of the cooperative model and communication model. While I understand that many people do view sex in an economic way, it is something that I personally find disturbing (and I touched on one aspect why in my initial response).

[Scrambled]

Very interesting read. Models of sex. Anyway, again you missing the point. In this context, I'm not interested in the models of sex. Again What I'm getting at is CHOICE. or In other words the reason why men get into those different models. Some men have NO choice but to get the economic part. Lol... it's not about viewing sex this way, it's that it's the ONLY way for some... many... men. Only a minority guys have the privilege of having women to be in competition or any of that stuff.

[selfishstars]

Well, again, you asked why prostitution is frowned on. I gave my answer for why I don't like it. I can only really speak for myself, because other people have many different reasons for disliking it. I'm just offering one perspective. You seem to be saying that if a man cannot have sex with a woman (without paying her), he will ultimately view sex in an economical way. I disagree with that. It's not like that view is inevitable. There are men who cannot find sexual partners who don't view sex that way/who wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with a prostitute/paying for sex. While some people's choices may be limited, they are still making a choice to pay someone who doesn't genuinely want to have sex with them to have sex with them. Even if the alternate choice is to not have sex at all, it's still a choice. And I personally don't look very positively on people who choose to have sex with prostitutes.

[selfishstars]

Additionally, you seem to view having sex with a prostitute as equivalent to having casual sex, and I hope that my explanation shows why I don't view the two as the same.

[Scrambled]

Ok... I see what you getting at why it's frowned upon from that angle and it's valid. But that's life...80% of people apparently don't enjoy their job, so whatever. Wouldn't sway me. Yes men have an option to not have a sex worker and die a 40 yr old virgin or just as sad, miraculously find that one person that they have to settle for and have that one person forever. But that's such a sad, poor option that I weep for guys like that. You live one life and then you die. Why be so fucking boring. But the problem is again, some men don't have any choice. So it's Not like men start to view sex in an economical way, it's that it's their only choice. I never viewed sex as economical... it was just the only way I could get it. Trust me, no man would choose that route if they had other options (in the sex department). And this is about casual sex, they can be the same. Sleeping with strangers. Again friends with benefits would be first prize but many men can't have that.

[Wolkmi]

But this men is right. (Without sounding bad) If women become desperate or desire or persecute men with lust and there is more casual sex between the sexes more easily for both men and women, there is no need to pay. Some women online also say the opposite, instead of looking for casual sex, paying if you are not lucky, there are also women with very high standards, such as that they would not go with a man shorter than them. And there are many others who boast of getting money from men, or they don't do it with prostitution but with the findom or gold digging

[Anonymous]

Jeez. Another guy who thinks prostitution=equality between genders.

[Scrambled]

No... there is no equality here. Just a solution to a problem that effects guys far more than women.

[Opinion Owner]

Because you let it affect you more.

[Scrambled]

Ok... I see. So a girl can get casual sex and a guy isn't allowed to. That's a pretty shitty deal for the guy... I don't except it... at all.

[Opinion Owner]

Maybe some could get, but some girls don't want. Shitty deal, if the guy is desperate for sex. And that is one reason girls don't want to have swx with him because it is unattractive.

[Opinion Owner]

Anyways, why are you crying about this: "I'm the greatest story of ugly duckling. A kid with glasses and bullied, no girls came for me. Today I'm a 6 packed boxer, gym freak, musician who plays women" Or sid you lie and you can't get laid at all?

[Scrambled]

It's not desperation, it's about choice. If a guy likes sleeping with different people (he has every right to want this) he can't if he isn't that attractive. So he doesn't have a choice but to get prozzies. Women don't have this problem.

[Scrambled]

Yeah... that's my story, still doesn't waver off from this question. I defend my brothers who can't get any.

[Opinion Owner]

Even unattractive guys can get laid. One night stands are more about confidence and everyone getting wasted. And some women do have rthis problem, but afain, it has more to do with confidence

[Scrambled]

Lol... alcohol is THEE only way ugly people get laid. I couldn't even manage that back in the day. But unattractive can't really get laid. In fact, I would say that being born ugly or socially inept for a guy literally dictates that he CANNOT be promiscuous unless he gets a prozzie.

[Opinion Owner]

Hahaha, bullshit. Keep lying to yourself. Bye

[jacquesvol]

Prostitution is illegal in the US. I don't know about Australia.

[Scrambled]

It's legal in oz... and brilliant. The hiv rate in sex workers is lower than the general public, how awesome is that. It's the country that made me think of this take. It's safer to get a prozzie than some scrappy Sheila here in oz.

[jacquesvol]

^~^ Your 'general public' should learn to use condoms.

[Klaatu51]

LOL... but there r much more female than male escorts bro o_O

[Scrambled]

Yeah, but that's the whole point of my question. Females don't need gigolos, men need sex workers (well, some of us... many... maybe most of us anyway)

[Wolkmi]

I understand that you don't like prostitution. But it is funny because they are going to condemn paying for that but they are going to say that the fault of some men being unlucky is because they are ugly or have no confidence, then they create insecurities and these men do not try and will go easy. But as in casual sex you make it look like it's super complicated