Since when was drunk sex considered rape? And why?

[ras144]

(Before some SJW calls me a rape apologist, I’m just trying to make sense of the topics of consent and liquor.) I don’t understand how sleeping with a drunk girl is considered rape even when she consents in her drunken state. A drunk person is still held accountable for their actions when they drive a vehicle, why doesn’t that same accountability translate to sex? What if both the man and the woman is drunk when having sex? Doesn’t that mean they’re both rapists? And if drunk sex does equate to rape, doesn’t that make alcohol a date rape drug? Why are we encouraging 21 years olds to ingest a date rape drug for fun around strangers? Wouldn’t it be common sense to discourage people, especially women, from consuming a date rape drug? I think making drunk sex against the law is stupid considering that our nation’s culture glorifies partying, which includes sex and alcohol. It seems like it will just unfairly put more people in jail than necessary. Can someone explain to me why having a law like that is a good idea, because I don’t see it.

[MeltedCheese89]

This should answer most of your questions: www.businessinsider.com/can-you-get-convicted-of-rape-if-you-were-drunk-2013-11

Some excerpts:
— "A guy can get convicted of rape if he's too drunk to realize a woman is saying no — even if he remembers nothing of the assault or thought the sex was consensual. (And yes, a woman could be convicted of rape in similar circumstances, though the cases are rare.)"

— "... rape is a general-intent crime, meaning prosecutors just have to prove a rapist was being negligent or reckless. Unlike specific-intent crimes, rape doesn't require prosecutors to prove a rapist specifically intended to rape somebody."

— "Here is how the Justice Department defines rape: The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

— "The law is currently evolving to determine whether a conscious woman who's incredibly drunk is capable of giving consent... this is mostly a theoretical question that has yet to be answered."

[madhatters4]

it's not considered rape unless one of the parties files a report with the police as such

it essentially is to remove the opportunity for a person to say well they consented (while blacked out or whatever) so it was ok... It is designed so that a person can't roofie someone and say, we'll they consented... despite clearly not being in a clear headed position to make a decision

[ras144]

Wait, I thought roofies immediately knock someone out. They have the same effect as getting drunk from Alcohol?

[madhatters4]

they don't immediately and don't always knock you out. they aren't quite the same effect as alcohol. They are a benzodiazepine, so they act as a sedative, muscle relaxer and hynoptic. Taken in a certain amount it only makes you tired but eventually you most likely will passout... so both are sedatives but alcohol also has the effect of altering your mental capacity for judgment... I suppose roofies are similar but instead they just make it difficult to make neural processes

[Anonymous]

It's a difficult area, but there are definitely cases where people take advantage of other people who wouldn't normally consent but do when they're drunk. I think most people in context would know when someone is genuinely consenting and when they're too drunk to give consent. The general rule should be if you aren't sure, then don't have sex with that person.

For the record I do also have a problem with how alcohol and especially getting drunk is glorified. It's a very unhealthy relationship to have with alcohol where people go out and drink so much it makes them ill and causes them to be unsafe. I don't drink at all, but of course I don't think everyone should be the same as me. I just think there should be less pressure especially on young people to put themselves in situations where they're at risk because of alcohol

[Song4TheBroken]

You're not one of those people who are like 'She wouldn't have agreed to have sex with you if she was sober, so you raped her', are you?

[Opinion Owner]

I think if you knew beforehand that she didn't want sex with you, and then initiated sex with her when she was so off her face she couldn't make informed decisions, then yeah. There's also a big issue if one person is underage; they can't consent anyway legally, but if they have been drinking as well then they're very vulnerable and in that situation I don't think it's ever right to have sex with them. The thing is, there's this argument that people give consent when slightly drunk and then claim the other person raped them because they're embarrassed or whatever, which in reality is very, very uncommon. It's far more likely that someone who claims to be a rape survivor is telling the truth, and so they should always be supported and taken seriously. In practice, the right thing to do is if you're in any doubt about whether the person is giving their consent, you should stop.

[Song4TheBroken]

But what exactly do you mean by 'informed decisions'? Because there's a HUGE difference between being drunk to the point where it affects your sense of judgement and lowers your standards considerably, and being so drunk that you can't move and haven't the slightest clue where you are or what's going on. The former is simply a case of the old 'beer goggles' and isn't even remotely similar to rape. The latter is pretty much date raping somebody.

[Song4TheBroken]

Also, I would never take the 'legal age of consent' into consideration, under any circumstances. Statutory rape is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of.

[Opinion Owner]

It depends, that's where we have a grey area kind of. If they've previously said no before being drunk the best idea is to not do anything while they're drunk. It depends on context really, and you have to judge. The best thing is to communicate, and if you're not sure you've got consent you need to stop. Obviously an age of consent can't be the concrete age at which everyone is ready for sex; people mature at different rates, but it's there to legally protect children from predatory adults. If one partner is significantly older than their teenage partner, then the power dynamic is very clearly screwed there. The younger partner may feel like they can't say no, or not understand that they can change their mind part way through an act if they're uncomfortable, and that's wrong. Alcohol just means that their ability to consent is even more compromised.

[Song4TheBroken]

I disagree. If they've previously said no, there's absolutely nothing wrong with trying your luck again once they're somewhat intoxicated. Assuming they're still capable of actually giving consent, the fact that alcohol is impairing their judgment is irrelevant. As for the legal age issue, you're creating ideals based on hypothetical situations. You can't just assume that because somebody is relatively young, they will allow an older person to have all the power in a relationship. You also can't assume that they'll automatically be pressured into sex just because they are relatively young. These situations may occur, they may even occur rather frequently. But that doesn't mean you can paint everybody with the same brush. In regard to the legal age of consent being there to 'protect children', I also disagree. In America, the AOC is 18. Think about how many years ago a person would have started puberty before their 16th or 17th birthday. 15-17 year olds are NOT children.

[Opinion Owner]

It's not a good idea. If the person's judgement is compromised, then it's not fair on them. You don't 'allow' someone to have power over you.. of course relationships involving underage people vary situationally, the power dynamic between someone underage and their overage partner who's a year older than them probably won't be huge.. I'm not assuming that they'll be pressured into sex. Legally there does need to be some sort of line, but i'm not condemning all underage people having sex. I'm just saying that if one person is underage then it's all the more important to make sure they understand their rights and are comfortable with what is happening. A part of that is making sure they're sober when they give consent. In the UK, where I live, the age of consent is 16. I do think that people in their 20s who choose to go out with 15 year olds are probably predatory, i'm sorry

[Opinion Owner]

Being an adult is not just about puberty. I got my period for example when I was 12, my sister got hers when she was 10. This did not make us adults by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't feel at all ready for sex until I was at least 17, maybe even a little older. It depends on the person. But people who are still going through puberty are not yet fully developed, which means they aren't fully able to make decisions, and probably haven't had sufficient sex education yet. So they shouldn't be expected to be able to give consent in the same way as adults would

[kasaxxx]

Unfortunately as a woman i have to say that there is a lot of men that will take advantage of a drunk woman. When i was in my early 20's at university i experienced this quite a few times.. but rape i didn't class it as as i had gone home with them and got into bed with them. I stopped drinking after waking up with a guy one morning who was horrible, i couldn't remember if we did have sex (bad i know) but soon knew we had when i felt his cum leaking from me.

[RebelOfNowhere]

If both parties were drunk, it's hard to accuse either one of rape if they were both consenting while drunk.

If they were both drunk and one said no, OR if one was drunk and one was not, I would say it's rape.

[PrincessTashaaaa]

Let's all just not have drunk sex with people unless we are in a relationship with them or have a agreed to have sex with them prior to drinking.
Problem solved.

[Song4TheBroken]

Are you being sarcastic?

[PrincessTashaaaa]

Nope. @Song4TheBroken

[tyber1]

Thats a realistic thing that we can expect to happen...

[Red_Arrow]

That makes complete sense. So it will never be accepted.

[TTberno]

It's not rape if she is drunk but still knows what she is doing and can still act normal.
It's rape if she is unconcious or so drunk that she can't really walk on her own and talk anymore or if she is throwing up.
Everything in between is a grey area and depends on how the girl feels about it, how the circumstances were and how drunk the guy was.

[Frost_Byt3]

"A drunk person is still held accountable for their actions when they drive a vehicle, why doesn’t that same accountability translate to sex?"

*round of applause* You have a really good point with that one. I agree entirely.

[Song4TheBroken]

It depends, if they're beyond drunk to the point where they can't move and aren't even aware of what's going on around them, then it would essentially be rape. If they're just drunk as fuck but are still relatively conscious of their environment, then it's clearly not rape.

[Prof_Don]

You make excellent points! I never understood the whole "drunk guy having drunk sex with drunk girl" = rapist guy and victim girl

[Bandit74]

What irritates me even more us that only the guy is considered guilty of rape.

For example, if a drunk guy and a drunk girl have sex, they will say she couldn't consent so he raped her.

But he was drunk too, so shouldn't that mean that she raped him too?

Not according to feminists. Only the guy us the rapist.

[Jager66]

This is just the latest thing in the Feminist witch hunt of men. They already did it with the domestic violence laws so now it's time to make all men rapists by redefining what the definition of rape is.

[tyber1]

I don't understand it either but I don't drink and never have so my opinion cannot be fully informed.

[Pat8707]

Lol you got me. It's kinda (very) ridiculous if you think about it. First they say women are powerful and can do anything a man can and be 100% equal and then they say that women can't help getting drunk and having drunk consensual sex. Well, which one is it?

[genericname85]

oh that´s the wrong question to ask on here :D drunk sex = the guy raped the girl, how dare you don´t agree to that? xD...

[badboy666]

You are trying to make sense of the senseless. American is rife with crazy double standards, and this is one of them.

[Kuraj]

Because of feminism, manhating and manblaming.
Don't look for sense in it.

[ObscuredBeyond]

And trust me, I've tried to argue with the manhaters. They are incapable of reason. When they can't argue, they bully. And they always travel in packs.

[WhereAmI]

What state is was it passed? I've never heard of such a law; sound ludicrous unless the girl is jail bait.

[Red_Arrow]

Most states. You better learn your laws or suffer the consequences.

[WhereAmI]

@Red_Arrow If she can't remember having sex, how can she remember that it was not consensual?

[Red_Arrow]

If she was beyond comprehending what was happening (thereby not remembering) then she could not have given knowing consent.

[tynamite]

Feminists are trying to expand the definition of rape so that every man is rapist.

The yes means yes law requires men to get electronic or written consent for sex as the man has to prove there was consent, rather than no force.

The affirmative consent law requires men to get consent for each consensual act, so if you take a girl's pants off then touch her boobs, you are a rapist.

The rape by fraud law will put men in prison if they lie to get sex.

Feminists have perverted the course of justice by implementing sham courts in universities that always take the woman's side instead of going through the legal system.

Also feminists think that all consensual sex is rape.

[up_64]

Its stupid. If you're gonna drink your brains out. Do what girls at my school do. They have a sober friend or brother or boyfriend ar whatever to dpend on when they get drunk.

[PublicEnemyNumber-1]

Simply put, if someone drugs you and has sex with you, you were not in the right mind therefore you could not make a proper decision. However if you are both drunk, that is a different story.

[Words_and_Wisdom]

Thank you! Someone with common sense!

This whole 'rape culture' culture has gotten extremely out of hand. If you willingly consume alcohol, you should be held accountable for the actions of your drunken state.

[Ant1985]

I've once been accused or rape and i tell you being accused of something you know you are innocent i mean im not capable of rape and it mentally destroyed me and any girl who does it is pure evil

[kevinMcD]

Do they both get arrested for raping each other while are both equally drunk or is only one party arrested?

[Sexymama92]

I had a friend she was so drunk and her guy friend was so drunk and she don't remember nothing frome that night would u count that as rape