I should add that just because we face systemic racism, it doesn't mean we don't face individual racism.We do face it.I've worked customer service for about a decade now, and I can't even count how many racist white people (I'm not saying all white people are racists, just those particular ones) would think being bilingual is an insult. Like really? Knowing 2 languages fluently is a crime? LolSo while white people face more individual racism, non whites face systemic AND individual racism.
50/50 split in the poll... https://i65.tinypic.com/10qlzdu.jpg
Perceived discrimination isn't the same as actual discrimination. When there are laws and policies against them, then I'll agree. But individual racism, even group racism, isn't the same as systemic and political racism. The former, while terrible, doesn't really affect your quality of life. The latter, is designed to keep you from getting ahead.I feel that some white people are delusional and just saying this because of the "white guilt" that the extremely anti racism group makes them feel. So instead of critically looking at how racist society is towards those not white, they try to claim severe discrimination as well.It's not helpful at all. And, I should add, that white guilt is ridiculous. You're not evil or responsible for the favoritism of your skin color. You are, however, held responsible for your indifference or outright denial of it.
I actually agree with you
Thank you very much :)
Same question. What isolated world do you live in the upscale gated community? Talk about out of touch.
@ThisAndThat my isolated community is in upscale Atlanta North Atlanta to keep people out and if that includes you well fine
@ThisAndThat I have no idea what you are saying
Exactly which it why you can say discrimination whites isn't a big problem.
@ThisAndThat LOL you should reread my answer. I said the exact opposite of that
But you stated (not as big a problem as discrimination against minorities), and that's not the case. Whites have the highest rate of discrimination there is. Don't believe me? Where's the Ms. White America contest? Why are whites not allowed to be proud of who they are and celebrate white history month? Why are whites to blame for everyone else's downfalls and mishaps? why are white claiming they're ashamed to be white?
You say that like I care what stupid people think.
You must have been asleep for quiet a while because today at least where I'm from there is a chit load of upper class blacks here and no doubt half of Hollywood and a lot of politicians by now.
@ThisAndThat Let's make a deal. I'll wake, but only if you agree to do so first. And then we'll take a look at some actual facts rather than rely on anecdotal evidence from your little corner of the world. www.washingtonpost.com/.../proportion.gifAlso, if you think that blacks are getting fair, accurate representation in Hollywood, then LOL. For example, blacks are far more relied upon as comedic effect than they are for serious, thought-provvoking roles. And when they do get recognition for serious roles, it's because they've been typecast as a 'typical black character.' And then there's the issue of the 'black best friend,' a new trend in Holywood that allows black characters to be supportive of white leads.Also, in 2012 it was estimated that nearly 94 percent of the 5,765 members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences were white, while only 2 percent were black. So, again, I'll wake up, but you go first, bud.
Really? Has it occurred to you that those that took part in your 50/50 split poll were out of touch uppity's that at minimum out of touch them selves? If they're unreachable with the meaning of the subject at hand then why bother asking them? Those are the same idiots that would say illegals haven't taken jobs because illegals hasn't yet taken their own jobs. And I like how you and everybody else here are trying to play down those Hollywood roles IE not serious thought provoking roles as if those roles are forcing them on welfare or to live with lower standards with no shoes on their feet etc etc. Do you know how many whites would fill those roles yesterday if they were asked to go live that rich life and live in mansions? I can also tell you they are filling serious roles and I know because they're on TV every single day and if you want me to name those shows I have no problem doing that either. The media, leftist and sites like with that poll are trying to stir racial tensions.
@ThisAndThat The "media" is the Internet. There is no one, or a few, news outlets that influence people like they did in the past. Stop blaming "the media". That is getting to be an old excuse in the world of the internet.
Not everybody uses the Internet and not everybody bothers to find the truth when they do use the Internet. A good majority of the sheep believe what they see in the news and the news or media is owned by 6 corporations that all lead back to the same source. So not blaming the media is would be looking the other way and an act of negligence.
@ThisAndThat ok OnLY you and those that agree with you know what's going on. Everyone else are sheep following the media.
@ThisAndThat www.wsj.com/.../the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798 The Wall Street Journal is conservative. But since you disagree with the article you probably think it is a "media lie." Everything you disagree with is a lie, conspiracy etc,.
You are aware that those (immigrants?) broke the law the minute they put their feet in a country where they're not permitted to be? Also the Wall Street Journal is nothing more than a RINO shill shop for establishment and corporations that are hiring the illegal aliens.
@ThisAndThat yes, it is all a conspiracy. Only you and your looney buddies know what is really going on. There is no reasoning with you.
Conspiracy it is, but you left out one little detail, allow me to append, PROVEN conspiracy.
Skewed wealth doesn't mean racism. We were indoctrinated as kids with the claim that humans might look different but we’re all equal on the inside. It’s a destructive lie. A big part of the difference is the result of IQ. Funny how these dark Indians do so well (the US have brain drained India): goo. gl/JjSCmE Dark skin is found both on the top and the bottom. African Americans (which are a quarter-ish white) aren’t, and won’t be, productive enough to reach the top, but they can reach higher with some changes, like much lower single motherhood. A welfare system does bad things. Average IQ of Black African countries is 70-ish. Mild retardation is 55–69. How about Jews being 27% at Yale and 25% at Harvard while being 1.7% of the population?It is bad treatment of qualified white/asian individuals to exclude them from something because of their race. Under qualified blacks getting accepted to higher education is bad for them and bad for blacks who belong there.
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@BuchitaBuchys what does "this" mean? I'm not very hip or up to date on current slang.
It means "this is correct" I guess or "I agree with this" lol
Just because a majority of people agree on something doesn't make it true. 1000 years ago the majority of people thought the Earth was flat,
I agree with you. Isn't it fascinating that that is the perception among whites? Why do they feel threaten when they are clearly no where near the kind of discrimination other groups face?
You're exactly right. It's like hearing rich people complain about how hard it is to spend their money.
hmmm you don't think it's a bit biased of a poll? how about a simple statistic showing the rate of incarceration of minorities versus that of white for the same crime? or the rate of minorities being pulled over traffic stops versus that of their white counterparts.that poll simply asked white people if they feel discriminated against. it really doesn't prove that the racism is out there it's just their opinion. It's like asking if pizza is the best food. you'll get opinions but the result doesn't in anyway show that pizza is scientifically the best food
I don't know. i think things like affirmative action, quota systems, and other things threaten many white people. it can on some level look like reverse racism (although i don't see it entirely that way).i guess if I knew teh reason why so many whites think racism against them is so pervasive and an active threat on their livelihood i'd be giving lectures around the country
It might feel that way tho going from no discrimination at all, to it being publicly acceptable being discriminated by other ethnic groups.
Also, that poll you have is a sample of only white people lol.
Yeah but consider the fact that all blame is essentially placed on whites. we teach it in schools we teach how privledged whites are yet no one talks about the other side. Whites where also slaves yet that is entirely ignored, why? Why do we never acknowledge that it was whites who banned slavery before any other group of people, that in the entire world where every single group from aztecs to muslims to the black slavers to asia all of them participated in slavery owned slaves and sold slaves. Why is it not mentioned that whites actually participated less then most groups where as likely to be enslaved (in fact the term slave comes from the term slavic which is a group of caucasians who where so frequently enslaved their very name became the term for forced subjugation) or the fact that it was whites who abolished it first and they set the standard? Isn't it odd that this part of history is never ever talked about? as for racial profiling they have actually found that police
are less likely to fire on a black suspect then a white or hispanic for fear of being viewed as racist: www.washingtontimes.com/.../?page=allBut blacks are actually more likely to commit violence crimes. But if any one mentiones this who is white the immediate response is to claim they are racist (I am pretty much waiting for that moment now). Whites are more likely to be killed by cops then blacks but no one seems to care unless its a minority in which case the police officer (seemingly) will be accused of racism irregardless of the circumstances: www.washingtontimes.com/.../?page=allSo now we have a society that views blacks as victims irregardless of circumstances and whites as oppressors racist etc irregardless of circumstances. That is a big deal because it means no one is allowed to address the issue if they are white thus ensuring the problems get perpetuated.
@hellionthesageThere were no white slaves in America. There were indentured servants, which was a different system. Slavery as we know it and speak of was actually a relatively short time in American history. If you want to talk about world history. Then yea, every ethnicity at one point experienced slavery. But when slavery is spoken of in America, they're referring to American history. The only white "slaves" were either indentured servants or POWs. Indentured servants are guaranteed future freedom. Slaves were not. That's the big difference. On top of the fact, most indentured servants worked similarly to an apprenticeship. You were taught how to do a trade, housed and fed. In exchange, you are a dedicated worker for a contracted period. At the end of it, you would be compensated. Sometimes with land and start up money to use your skills your worked years for. That's a very different life than a slave who was owned, never to have their freedom. And it was publicly accepted.
@hellionthesage And less likely to shoot does not equate to less likely to profile in the first place. Which is what I stated in my original comment. But just fyi, that article is from January of last year. Not up to date. Not to say the results would be any different as of this year.
That is not true. Irish where slaves, sold to americas by the British (Oliver chromwell to be precise), in fact they where treated worse then African slaves (most likely due to the hatred the British had for them): www.globalresearch.ca/.../31076www.raceandhistory.com/.../webbbs_config.plAnd I wasn't saying experienced slavery, though its true that all did, I was specificly reffering to the fact that the slave trade as we thank of it was created and maintained by Africans and middle easterners. Whites from Europe where routinely enslaved, but again no one acknowledges this very well estabilished fact. Caucasians came into the slave trade late as well which we also don't talk about along side the fact that it was whites who abolished slavery before every one else.
@hellionthesage Huh. How about that. Irish got shipped to America and Australia. Guess it's best to ammendment my statements to refer to British.
@hellionthesage but you're mix and matching a bit. Are you referring to America specifically, white people being first to abolish it? Or in general during world history, because that happened in waves in different governments at different times.
As for indentured servitued it was not pleasent and most where defacto slaves at least in the earlier half of indentured servants: memory.loc.gov/ammem/awhhtml/awlaw3/slavery.htmlHowever I was reffering to in general that slavery was not created by whites that whites where as likely to be slaves as any other group and therefore slavery was not a white phenomona and thus should be blamed solely on whites which is how it is presented both in society in general and more specificly in our educational system. Its also not acknowledged that plenty of whites where against slavery (some for less then altruistic reasons) and that it was purely the rich who benefited from it, not all whites. As for the article its not a long enough time frame for it to be of an issue and yes it does not dictate whether or not they profile,
however all FBI statistics do show that blacks are more likey to commit violent crimes, more likely to assualt a police officer and more likely to commit armed robbery. So is it not justified? If it was any other group and we could consistently prove that the majority of violence comes from that group shouldn't we respond the same? If their is racial crimes cross burning etc would we not then look first in the white community before expanding our search? It would be logical to do so. But when its any group other then whites its viewed as racist. By not acknowledging the problems within the black community we are allowing them to persist and thus exacerbating the situation not making it better yet the only people allowed to mention it is blacks no one else (people have been fired over this). Their are many cases where people suffered because the black community blamed them for racism purely on due to the persons skin (George zimmerman comes to mind)
@hellionthesage no one said slavery was created by whites. Nor was I alluding to it. And yes indentured servitude did suck, but life sucked back then in general. While some were defacto slaves that was not the case for all. The devolution into slavery from indentured servitude happened over time.And I understand how the lack of acknowledgement for whites who were against slavery is bothersome. But it was a large enough number for it to happen in the first place and to continue. And the families that were slaves to fellow Americans really don't care that "some" white people thought it was a bad idea. They're just glad that enough stood up, eventually after years and years of slavery. Which is the point.Now I'm not one to blame white people for slavery or even to believe that anyone today owes anyone else shit, for problems between our ancestors. But it is wholly appropriate to put the bulk of the blame on white Americans of the past.
@hellionthesage it's like saying they deserve brownie points for freeing slaves, by force when they shouldn't of had them to begin with.It's a dark history. And I'm sure it got muddy. Living in that time had a lot of hatred and I'm sure there was plenty of apathy towards other races at the time. With everyone thinking "well they did it first, so what difference does it make if I do it?"
@hellionthesage There back and forth responses and becoming a lot. Get it all in one big chunk and let me know when your response is done so I can comment in full as well. I keep missing portions of what you say and it's all over the place at the moment
Wow those typos lol
We also talk about poverty in the black community ignoring the fact that more whites are poor then blacks (this is to be expected as 63% of the population is white vs. 13% black) robertlindsay.wordpress.com/.../So issues within white communities the poor ones are ignored because their white and "whites have never suffered"(something I have been told many many times despite the fact that it came from a minority that had lived a much better life then me) and so its completely disregarded before the issue can be talked about, just like the issues of talking about racism, or how if a white person says anything negative about a minority even if its statisticly backed, even if it is spoken not as an insult but a call to action, they will be viewed as racist and most likely will lose their jobs. However it seems (at least to me and other whites (perhaps you can prove otherwise)) that the reverse is not true. Then you have political correctness but it seems it only applies to whites:
thefederalist.com/.../Its the censorship of it that bothers me the most, the immediately guilty with no chance of proving ones innocents. For instance I don't know if you recall the Micheal richards incident (he cussed out two black guys during his stand up act, making racially sensitive remarks) what almost every outlet neglected to mention was that he was on stage for nearly two hours the entire time these guys where insulting ridiculing him and humiliating him in front of an audience no less. So he insulted them and suddenly he is racist? That it wasn't even acknowledged that it was absolutely provoked nor was it acknowledged that the hole point of an insult is to offend so you say things others find offensive not necessarily things you believe yet he was immediatley guilty of racism while these two guys where never called out for their behavior.
Here is a video I found, its mostly about the issues in the UK but it does bring up interesting ideas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb2iFikOwYU
Sorry I was not ignoring your comments I just didn't have time to update to see yours. I was reffering to enmasse banning of slavery, groups here in there kind of made it illegal then didn't but it was caucasians who unilaterally banned it and kept it that way vs just districts or city states (the quakers for instance always banned slavery in fact they where instrumental in the underground rail road) and no people do seem to think only white owned slaves, some times off handedly admitting others did but never fully acknowledging that all groups did so and to hold whites as primarily responsible is unfair as all where equally guilty but we don't really acknowledg that as a society (and again especially in our education system). And no its not brownie points for them not being a dick its that they stopped being a dick before every one else so why can't we also acknowledge that? They where assholes but so was every one why is the blame placed on them then?
Blacks killed and enslaved blacks then kept some as slaves and sold others but we don't acknowledge that part only once they where loaded into the boats thats when we suddnely start paying attention so its kind of odd that we don't admit the part all people played. You can't blame whties for slavery but then conviently not acknowledge blacks who created the slave trade system, participated in the slave trade system and supplied the slaves themselves without it being hypocritcal. Its very one sided its as if the slate is wiped clean for blacks but the sins of the fathers get passed down forever for whites. If we acknowledge all parties involved then the issue resolves itself in short every one was an asshole every one shares equal blame. Now their is no more devision no more blaming becaues then blacks have to admit their part in it as well and then we can finally move past this fact and leave it as a part of history, no different then the revolutionary
war, (imagine if we still held a grudge against england for that?) So not brownie points acknowledgement of all peoples participation and the acknowledgement that not all whites where apart of it, in fact most where not it screwed over the poor because they lost out on jobs, they where forced into possess to wander around at night (after a days hard work) to look for escaped slaves, specificly the escaped slaves who belonged to some rich jackass who took a job from said poor man and now a well earned nights sleep. (another thing we don't acknowledge is that only the rich could vote so that is why things whent the way they did because rich people voted for laws that benefited them, the poor had no say so they couldn't fight slavery even when they wanted to). So thats another issue the type casting of whties as racist and blacks as victims.
Blacks owned slaves (both in america and a few in america too) whites opposed slavery (quakers the poor) yet these other halfs are not acknowledged this then causes a greater divide, making the racial (technicly their is no such thing as race scientificly speaking) gap even greater because its polarized the groups making it black and white instead of the grey that it actually was and is. So acknowledgement of these is integral to removing the bias, we can't point fingers if we are all equally sinner and saint.(which is a absurd that we place blame on an entire people for the actions of not only a few but a long dead few). I agree that it was a dark time and it wasn't just apathy for other groups of people but people in general (I mean you could legally kill a man if he cheated in poker) In short all of this would remove the us vs them mentality that permeates society and help us be able to adress the problems we all have not just one group or the other, and fix them.
And yes, I am god awful at spelling sorry in advance. Also sorry didn't mean to interrupt you didn't realize you where trying to respond real time. I am finished feel free to respond.
@hellionthesage Ok. So, first things first.You cannot bounce between referring to the world history of the slave trade and America's history with slaves, when discussing what people refer to or "disregard". This goes back to the fact if you look at all of world history, every ethnicity at one point experienced slavery. When people in America talk about slavery they generally are talking about the American history. They're not considering Africa. I need to stress that point, because you are going back and forth with that idea.Blacks owning black slaves and starting the trade over in Africa have no bearing on whites owning black slaves in america. If you want to look at it from that standpoint, then why not go further back in history? Why not look at Chinese slaves in history? You have to specify. Now if the topic is going to just be about slave history in general, then sure. Feel free. But the poster already directed the topic point.
@hellionthesage With that point in mind. Having slaves in america to begin with are because of white people who decided to buy them. To partake in a trade that was going on in other parts of the world. If not for the white Americans of that time making tat decision, slavery in America wouldn't exist. Because even if African slaves weren't around they would have still purchased Irish slaves. It was a choice they made at that point in history. So yes, the blame is on them. If we want to look at why there were black slaves in america, then African slave traders do have some blame yes. But this still goes back to... why do you think people ignore that white people were the ones to free the slaves?They were the ones that had the gran majority of them, so who else could free them by law? And secondly, you say it in a way that they deserve to have a pat on the back for relinquishing slaves by force. They not. But the Americans voting and fighting for freedom do.
@hellionthesage Slavery was a big part of the Civil war. So the say there should be an overwhelming thanks to all white people of that time is kind of a ridiculous idea.I think my last two posts summed up everything for the most part. I didn't watch the video however.Done.
But it does, if we are to blame whites, we need to blame everyone involved. You don't just blame the one person you blame all parties involved. By that reasoning you cannot talk about slave ships because it happened in international waters or mention the fact that far more slaves whent to south america then ever whent to the north. But these are all important facts. Its like if we ignore the fact that it was Africans who where suppling the slaves then we are ignoring half the story, its cherry picking your only brining up the facts that are convient for you to mention. Basicly only telling the parts of the story that incriminate whites and conviently leaving out all the parts that incriminate the blacks. Its like arresting the drug addict but not arresting or even acknowledging the drug dealer, we would not have the addict without him, just as we would not have had slaves if it where not for the African slavers/trade systems.
So by your reasoning we would also need to point out the black slavers because with out them their would not have been slaves in america. It was not something that happened remotely nor at a different time then slavery in america it was directly linked. Whites did not go into the heart of africa and kidnapp Africans, it was like any other business, the one selling the product (africans (both in being the product and selling it) approached and sold it to whites so to ignore their role in this is no different then me saying that we should only focus on this (african slavers) part of history. Its not the full story and it will always create the same bias picture providing only half of the actual facts. As for slaves, the majority actually whent to the middle east not whites: atlantablackstar.com/.../And their where many black slave owners as well as white (as the practice originated (in its most well known form) in africa and the middle east:
americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htmnewobserveronline.com/.../So again we also see yet another part of the history completely ignored, one that paints blacks in the best light possible and whites in the worst when in reality both parties where equally good and bad. As for whites freeing slaves, I explicitly stated they should not be patted on the back that it is a point that needs to be mentioned because otherwise the picture painted is of whites universally universally subjugating blacks. That is an inaccurate picture whties didn't all agree with slavery and not all blacks where against slavery. If we do not acknowledge this fact then we have issues such as an idea that all whites carry all the blame and blacks none of the blame and all the credit/sympathy etc. Its one sided, if we look at the facts we know this is not the case yet by presenting it as such you are fueling the divide between whites and blacks.
And what isolated world do you live in the upscale gated community? Talk about out of touch.
@ThisAndThat "isolated world do you live in the upscale gated community?"which, by implication, is still almost exclusively white.
@Dandeus I have two gates in my community, an upscale all-white $500,000 homes and up place where we can be safe and not have to worry about crime and rapists. The first gate keeps out people of color. The second gate keeps out everybody who doesn't live in our upscale community. That's why we go school and get PhD's and law degree and MD so we can afford to live in an upscale all-white community. And we break our tail studying and don't do drugs and if we do drugs get kicked out. And we defer gratification until our mid-30s and we are in the process of putting up a third gate a giant wall to keep people out of the United States.
Not sure what it is about my statement hat you are even disagreeing with. No, I don't live in a gated community.
They don't look white
If you are in England, Then it's pathetic and sad how they treat poor young white Men.
@Zombie-Killa Agreed, there's no sympathy either.Is it better in the states?
No better at all.
No that's just whites against Whites and this site has many whites and less of others