Sexual assault and harassment?

[ladsin]

So I've seen a recent trend of sexual harassment and assault claims becoming much more prolific. I'm wondering where you draw the line between the two and if these charges are brought up too often.
I thought of this after reading about an "idol" of sorts who has lost a lot of his reputation and been removed from several organizations after 2-3 (I can't remember which) sexual harassment claims. The background of the cases as I know them were that he (after talking with a woman for hours) said that he was interested in her physically. Now this went against the organizations rules as he was their speaker, and she was a college student. This behavior was noted on more than one occasion. Do you think that is sexual harassment (if I've correctly described it?) or do you think it's not?

[Anonymous]

The preponderance of sexual harassment claims, assault and rape claims are valid, rarely prosecuted to the satisfaction of the victim, and most victims never report anything.

Of course, I draw the line at false claims. No one supports that.

But seriously, we have had rape, sex abuse and consent in the public eye for decades now, and we have explained in excruciating detail what we mean by acts of non consent. If you did not ask, or asked and I said no, I could not answer, or you coerced me with credible threats of harm, explicit or implied, you violated my consent, and that includes what you try to show me, do to me, ask me to do, or touching me, and even some of the things you say. In other words, do not behave in anyway sexually toward a person who hasn't agreed for you to do so. Now, not ALL of it is illegal (yet), but use your damned head, and don't ever try to justify violating someone's consent. Never victim blame.

People who claim ignorance are liars. They want a free pass to be rapey. This is NOT rocket science folks. People get sexually assaulted every day, all day, all over the world, and it is NEVER ok.

[ladsin]

Cool I think we agree, although I don't know about the whole preponderance thing as I simply don't know the relevant data. However, what do you think of the person in question?

[Opinion Owner]

Yep, that's sexual harassment. The policy is clear. He surely knew it ahead of time. He just didn't care, and clearly the women didn't like it or it never would have been reported.

[0112358]

The woman who had an affair with him for several months didn't like it?

[RedRobin]

@0112358 maybe she called off the affair beforehand

[ladsin]

He mentioned two women. One which he had quite a log affair with, and one that appeared interested, but was not and he supposedly never brought up the topic after she told him no. I just don't understand this concept that someone expressing interest in you (appropriately) is harassment if they stop as soon as you ask. How would anyone ever know someone else was attracted to them if neither party ever said so?

[RJGraveyTrain]

It's a very fine line. Indicating you are interested in someone is one thing, but unwanted sexual advances - that easily falls into sexual harassment. Saying he "said he was interested in her physically" makes it sound a lot better than if he said: "I wanna fuck you."

My point is, it depends on what he said.

Do I think it's a BIG deal for a guy to hit on a girl for physical reasons? Not inherently, but once you start getting sexual, and it's clearly unwanted and inappropriate, it can cross over into being harassment. If it happened MORE THAN ONCE? I'd say yeah, he was likely harassing her unless she condoned the behavior.

[ladsin]

Thanks for the input. From what I understand if his account they had been talking for two hours and he thought that she was interested and said he wanted to date her, he said she seemed shocked, he apologized profusely, but they then went on to talk for another few hours. I don't know what he said about the other accounts. The one that he describes (if accurately described) does not sound like harassment to me.

[RJGraveyTrain]

Well saying he "wanted her physically" doesn't sound like he asked her on a date, so that's where you lost me.

[ladsin]

No yeah I understand, the article I read said "I want go around you." But I kind of doubt that so I tried to make it a little more realisticz

[RJGraveyTrain]

Yeah that sounds like a play on words, sounds like he plain old asked her to fuck but is trying to make it sound more tame. Lol.

[alice55]

I didn't really understand what you have said. is it like : he said to the women he was interested in her physically and she said he was harassing her?
If so the girls is crazy, in my country they would just tell her to go away if she went to report this to the police.

[ladsin]

So what he says happened was that they were talking for a few hours, he expressed an interest in her, she refused, and then they continued to talk for a while longer. She did not go to the police but instead apparently mentioned it to the event's organizers, and as a result he is no longer allowed to talk there or at several other venues.

[alice55]

She have a problem in her head seriously. She should have been flattered and that's all. Why would she do this really? She seems like a gay feminist or something. She rejected him, he have done nothing after then all is good, no problem.

[Anonymous]

The way it is these days Women can claim sexual harassment and rape with zero proof and be believed. Its only considered sexual harassment by women if they aren't sexually attracted to you or your poor. Take Donald Trump he can grab women by the pussy and it's not sexual harassment because those women want him too but if he was living in a trailer the cops would be called.

[xxmamichulaxx]

They can be believed by the public eye , but when it comes to questioning from the cops , its not easy to report or get your case taken seriously unless there's still physical evidence left.

[Opinion Owner]

@xxmamichulaxx the accusation is guilt enough to destroy a man's life. Unless your wealthy you may as well hang yourself

[BuchitaBuchys]

I don't think you have ever experienced sexual harassment And duh, sexual harassment isn't sexual harassment if she's attracted to you. Harassment is unwanted advances and the person being harassed gets to decide who he/she wants. Why is this such a hard concept for men to understand? Like if I let my boyfriend grab my ass, doesn't mean any guy can grab my ass and say "hey, but you let him do it! I should be able to too". That is so ridiculous I cannot believe men still have an issue with that.

[ladsin]

@BuchitaBuchys I have been sexually harassed on many occasions, well actually assaulted. I was at work when I was and a woman grabbed my ass, I was in a grocery store when I was 19 and a girl came up to me and grabbed my dick. I was at a bar and two women slapped my ass, and a third asked if they could all take pictures with their faces near my ass. There are more that I just can't remember at parties and the like, but I never made a big deal out of any of them. Now, does that mean that the women were ok to do what they did, just because I didn't say anything? No, but girlfriend you're goi. To start making ignorant statements presuming that the opinion owner or myself could not have been assaulted or harassed either because we are men, or because we have a different view from you I will simply let you know that you are just as bigoted as the people you dislike.

[ladsin]

*But if you're going to start... Not but girlfriend you're goi.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@Ladsin, I wasn't talking to you. I was to talking to the person who made this comment. Because reporting sexual misconduct isn't enough to get a man fired, jailed etc.

[BuchitaBuchys]

And I didn't make the comment because he's a man, stop presuming shit you have no idea about. I know men who have been harassed, raped, etc. And because of opinion owners response, it's obvious that he didn't get harassed or hasn't tried reporting it. Because it's often "he said she said" and not enough for punishment

[ladsin]

@BuchitaBuchys I have a friend who is in this exact position right now and he was kicked out of his school, and has received multiple death threats since his ex accused him of assault, even though there's no evidence corroborating her story, and in fact some evidence disproving her tale. This is why the ACLU is pursuing a case with him against the school. And you're right that legally it is hard to prove, and there's a reason for that. Our justice system is set up to ensure that we err on the side of the accused. There are plenty of cases however of men having been imprisoned, fired, and otherwise harmed grievously falsely. Even many women later admit that they're accounts were false.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Yes but not with HER word alone. A woman can't just wake up one day and say "hey, let me accuse this guy of rape!" And then he'll get imprisoned it doesn't work that way. I'm not saying it's a bad system, but fact is that one persons word, even a child, is not enough to get someone imprisoned

[ladsin]

@BuchitaBuchys it has been in the past. Look up Ronald cotton. there's no reason to think it doesn't still happen at some level to this day.

[BuchitaBuchys]

No, it doesn't. Especially with the rise of awareness of false rape claims. Fact is, it is incredibly rare, if it ever happens. Rape convictions are rare enough as is, an even smaller percentage are false rape, and an even tinier amount will rely on a single person's account.

[ladsin]

@BuchitaBuchys how are we raising awareness about false rape claims when they pretty much never happen according to you?

[BuchitaBuchys]

I didn't say they never happen I said that statistically they aren't as common.

[ladsin]

@BuchitaBuchys "fact is that one persons word, even a child, is not enough to get someone imprisoned" ok, so you were just being hyperbolic here?

[BuchitaBuchys]

Yea.

[ladsin]

@BuchitaBuchys cool have a good one

[DaRealEazyE]

I honestly don't know. but I do think there's something should be sad about pathetic people who make false claims of this sort. I say this because I have been a victim of somebody's false claims. although I was proving innocence, the time and stress that it took to prove my innocence did a great deal of damage on my college academics

[ladsin]

Yeah my friend is currently being defended by the aclu because he was found guilty of a title 9 violation (assault) even though there was no evidence, and in fact evidence to the contrary.

[DaRealEazyE]

I advise that your friend find a way to prove the Accuser of insanity

[ladsin]

Their pursuing a case against the school not her.

[jasbell]

Well, you didn't mention anything where he did anything to her, so I wouldn't qualify it as sexual harassment unless he touched her in an unwelcome way of any sort.

[rcasper91]

harassment doesn't have to be touching it could be as simple as saying hey sexy or even hey beautiful while passing in a hallway. anything that makes the other feel uncomfortable sexually or lately uncomfirtable at all can be considered harassment

[jasbell]

@rcasper91 true, but it has to be unwelcomed nonetheless. it also has to be out of the blue, nothing giving the person a reason to think that it's okay.

[Bloopman]

It doesn't necessarily have to be out of the blue, but it does have to be obviously unwelcomed for it to be sexual harassment from the start, which unless there's more to the story OPs telling, yeah, it's clearly not.

[ladsin]

@Bloopman I added the article he wrote about it, I don't know of the whole story, but from his side it doesn't seem at all like assault or harassment to me.

[rcasper91]

I know it has to be unwelcome @baseball that's why I said it makes the person feel uncomfortable. most things that are welcomed dont make me feel uncomfortable

[AustinMan]

You draw the line at informed consent.

[OlderAndWiser]

Different groups have different definitions for these terms so you need to have the organization's definition to answer this question.

[RedRobin]

I guess it depends how he worded his attraction to her so it's kinda hard to say.

[ladsin]

I agree. From how he describes it it does not sound like harassment to me, although who knows what really happened. In general, where would you draw the line?

[rcasper91]

if its not consensual its 99% of the time looked at as harassment or assault by one person or the other

[0112358]

Generally sexual assault is, well, an assault. Harassment is generally a violation of workplace policies and quite different.

As to whether charges are brought up too often, I'd say -no-, but I think they're investigated and dealt with quite poorly.

[Vanjasper]

Some women find and get offended at the slightest excuse, just because they can. Others take perverse delight in ruining a guys career by making accusations, founded or unfounded.
That said some guys are idiots, and try it on without thinking.
I work in a place with a lot of women, i have my arse slapped, groped and pinched, my nipples twisted by a lot of the women, but with some, dare i slap their arse back!!!

[captainsparrow]

no its not sexual harassment, you tell someone you aren't interested because you don't find them attractive, okay that dude is just shallow then it's no where near harassment

[Pizzalover101]

They both suck an we don't deserve it

[hoolahoop]

If he forced something on the woman then she might experience it as sexual assault. On the other hand if they were both adults and he stopped his advances at her decline then I don't think it can count as an assault. Personally I say sexual advances become assault when they are against a persons will even if the other person doesn't realise what she's doing and if the receiver isn't fit to give his/hers consent (drugged, under age e. t. c.)