I'm so sorry for what you went through. This is one of many problems I have with abortion. The fathers have no rights and basically have to live with the fact that the woman they choice to be with can or did kill their child. Its not right. I believe your baby knows you loved it. Once again I'm sorry for your loss.
I'm sorry for the loss of your beloved kid. Glad to hear you found a new love and finally got your family. The unspoken love, that fathers have for their kids, is often underrated and sadly a taboo in terms of abortions.
@PinkMichae Thank you for your kindness. It is really astonishing. I love my girlfriend and our children and I am happier than I have any right to be. Still, I can't help thinking of the baby I never knew - I don't even know if I had a son or a daughter. It still hurts and I only wish I could hold him/her and tell him/her how much I love him/her and how sorry I am that I failed as a father.
@Amanda269 Thank you. I am happy now and I can say at least how much I love my girlfriend and our children. My girlfriend is the most loving and wonderful woman and I am so grateful to her. She has given me the three most beautiful gifts that a woman can give to a man - and I never forget it,
That's why a couple should always have the "What are we going to do if contraception fails" talk before sex. I would rather go through hell and back than go through something as disgusting as pregnancy. And before sex I make it perfectly clear that in case of contraception failing he has to help me get rid of fetus as fast as possible. The guy doesn't agree with that - no sex
Well, pitiless is sometimes needed to avoid even worse situations. Such talk with your partner would hurt you less than what happened to you
@Inneedofusername We loved each other and that led to human intimacy. You suggest a contractual arrangement. In any case, you search for certainty where there is apt not always to be any. Have the conversation and things still go wrong and the unexpected still happens.For my part, I would have loved her and my baby because I cared about her and which is why we had sex. For you, it is all about the mechanics and, as I say, if the terms of contract are not met, well too bad. Feelings play no part - or at least a secondary part. Loveless sex and the unexpected takes the consequences.Thanks, but not for me. It hurts, but that hurt only tells me that it mattered.
I am crying rn, I want to hug you. I am so sorry for what you went through. You will see your aborted baby some day in heaven I really believe that!!!
@orangecherry Thank you so much. As I say, I am a happy man with a girlfriend and three beautiful little children. I am happier than I deserve to be.However, I miss that little person so much and I just wish I could hold him or her and tell him/her how much I love him or her. I hope - and think - that you are right and when that day comes I will hug and love my baby and I only hope that he or she will forgive me that when he or she needed me most I failed. Thank you, though, for your kindness.
I guess you should’ve carried ‘the fetus’ in your womb full term altering your diet and lifestyle. Experience leaky boobs with a special bra. Breastfeed for the first few months to a year while your husband slept because he can’t have a babe on a boob. Would that have been something you would do? What happened if she broke up with you because you were pregnant but she didn’t want the baby? Would you expect her to support you $$?
@Jammers14 Well, the important thing is that you are focusing on what is important - namely yourself. Leaving aside the philosophical and moral issues - which I was NOT discussing here - I love that baby with all my heart and miss him/her to this day.It is reassuring to know though, that there are people out there for whom the highest love is self-love. I do, I must say, pity the poor soul who expects that you will love them as much as you love yourself.
Well if you dont bear it 9 months you dont really have a word to say. Having a baby is scary. All shit happens with your body and as if it not enough you have to give birth and fuck your body up. Its not a choice you just do because your boyfriend absolutly want to have one. he's not the one who will bear it.
@jessi462 Yup. Scary it is, and I have been with my girlfriend as she has had three of our children and have felt powerless and scared and worthless, wishing I could help and I cannot other than be there and be supportive.However, two points are relevant. First, you would not be the first. Women have been in the business for quite a while, so to speak. Second, the difference between the mature adult and the selfish child is that the former masters their fears. They realize that there is something more at stake and at issue than just themselves.In that, your reply does you no credit.
I understand i guess your right. When you really do want a kid you dont care about that. Thats the oposite of me so of course i do care about myself.
@jessi462 There is nothing wrong with not wanting children. However that makes it incumbent upon you to avoid things that might lead to a child.Not a fun choice, but we must learn to live with the implications of our choices. Further, if you then do become pregnant, at that point it cannot be about you but about the other people involved and then you must give way to the good of the other. Oh, and yes, that includes the baby.
It's not unfair to make someone become a parent. That's the risk they took by having sex. So if a woman gets pregnant and doesn't believe in abortion she is not to blame for him becoming a parent.
@PinkMichae I believe it's unfair if there was an agreement or understanding beforehand and (as this question states) the chosen birth control methods didn't work.And I think you're looking at this totally from a single perspective. Just because she's the one who got pregnant doesn't always mean she's the one making the choice. And you also have to keep in mind that at the end of the day, it's not necessarily either parent that's being "punished" for taking the risk. The child didn't ask to be born into a messy situation.
The child didn't ask to be slaughtered before it ever had a chance at life either. The way I see it both man a woman are responsible for this child even if they were trying to prevent it. Everyone is aware nothing is 100% effective so by having sex you both still take that risk and bare that responsibility to the child. And the child shouldn't have to die for the risk they took.
@PinkMichae by your logic it should be unfair not to drive people down, because they stepped on a road knowing the possibility. There should be an option to disown children of mothers, that refuses abortions.
@PinkMichae The child, doesn't exist yet. That's the whole point.The man and woman are being responsible and taking account for the effect of their actions/decisions.They both don't want to have kids, they have taken less invasive measures, these measures weren't 100% effective. They have the choice to make an assured amendment for their mistake and they shouldn't take it?Rather they should end up with a child that they don't want and create some interesting knock on effect? No thanks.If they want a child (and are capable), by having that child, they're doing what's best for the child. If they don't want a child, it's not in anyone's best interest to have that child.
@PinkMichae nicely stated!
Thank you @Jackson8650. Some people will always find terms and excuses to avoid responsibility. Doesn't matter that the unborn child has a heartbeat and is growing. Hell it doesn't matter if it can feel their limbs being pulled apart. As long as there's a way to avoid the responsibility that comes along with mating and make their lives easier. Its pathetic and disgusting. They were so lucky that their parents didn't sacrifice them so they could be here to use abortion as a form of birth control. But I believe they will come face to face with these choices someday. And I truly hope they feel the pain they have inflicted on the innocent.
@PinkMichae let's call a spade, a spade here shall we?We all have our principles. Your opinion to those who share the same principles as you, is just as valid as mine.You seem to keep phrasing this as though it is a conversation about responsibility, it isn't. It is a conversation about choices and making decisions. Choices and decisions that are in line with the wants/needs and principles of individuals.There are those who want kids, there are those who don't. There are even those who want and have kids but (let's be honest) really shouldn't. Choices exist for a reason.And regarding my parents not aborting me. I don't care. They wanted kids, They made their choices. I am here, a knock on effect of that choice.Should they have aborted me, I wouldn't be here and I really wouldn't care regardless, because I wouldn't be here. The difference would be in the lives of my parents, not in mine. Because I wouldn't exist.Luck's got nothing to do with it, it was their choice.
@ZenKingdom Wow do you really hate your life THAT much or something? ! That you wouldn't care if you were dead or alive? ! Are you secretly depressed or something? ! To have such indifference towards life and ungreatfullness towards your parents choosing life, then maybe they SHOULD have aborted you! No offense!
@SueAnon84 haha.I love my life. I love the life I have, but that's totally not the point I was making in the response you're referring to. It's a statement of existence, like, corgito, ergo, sum.I think, therefore I am. I exist. But you can't base an argument on how I would feel if I didn't ever exist. I wouldn't exist to begin with, therefore, I would have no feelings.. to feel.I do exist, so I have feelings, I have choices, etc. I consciously exist.If I didn't exist, I wouldn't know about my existence, or lack of one. Therefore, I wouldn't care that I didn't exist. You can't base the hypothetical foundation of an argument on how something/someone who doesn't exist might feel about the lack of existence.If you base an argument, like this one for instance, on the possibility/fact (depending on opinion) that the foetus does exist in consciousness, then that's a different story.Long story short, I wouldn't have existed to care about my lack of existence. It's that simple
Oh I see now, I get what you’re saying. Thanks for clarifying! But I still feel that most people (even if they have “bad” lives WANT children because they want to spread their special genes and they also think that having a child (or children) are a blessing because they consider life beautiful and worth it! They consider it’s risks worth it and I’m glad you’re happy about your parents choosing life! You’re a deep thinker but it doesn’t change the fact that most people want children (to survive and to reproduce!). I think it’s either instinctual or better yet, wanting to feel powerful in that they created life!
@SueAnon84 Yeah, sure, not a problem.I agree with your feelings on "most people", that's how it seems for most people around me, but that's not the case for everyone. I believe those others who are/intend to be CFBC (for whatever reason) should be allowed to make their choices without being bullied/guilted/whatever else really... Into making choices that aren't theirs/to THEIR benefit, to begin with. As long as you're being responsible about the way you go about things (i. e, taking adequate precautions to prevent having to immediately go the abortion route), we all should allowed to make the choices that are ours.When I was much younger, I always just believed I'd adopt, I knew I didn't want kids, but for a long time, I didn't realise that just choosing to not have kids at all, was a possibility. Adoption was supposed to be my compromise (to honestly not wanting any kids of my own) or "middle ground" and even that got the "why would you choose to not have any biological kids?" response. Anyway, I eventually found I did have a totally different choice, one which was in line with my original feelings, and I was SAVED. Pardon the digression.I had a magnificent upbringing, I am not "damaged", physically or emotionally. I have siblings, I have nephews and nieces who I love/care deeply about. But I know what *I* want from/in my life.
Sorry I meant "Source"! Lol!!
Oh wow chosen as best answer? ! Thank you!! :)
If you are going to adopt it would be a good idea to do so soon. The older you get the harder it is to take care of a baby. But there are a lot of kids under 6 that need adopting too.
I think abortion should be a last resort after the couple has used every form of other reliable birth control that's available like (pills, condoms, UID, shots, even abstinence, etc.) It's not the fault of the child that it's exsists and MAYBE if it had a really shitty life or bad life it can work but sometimes when women in really bad situations have abortions, they get uterine scars and it's permanent and later on they will have trouble getting pregnant if they wanted to! Also, if a woman has a late term abortion, the same thing can happen (the odds are greater) and what's worse is that the baby may actually survive the abortion - if it's nearing term - but will be extremely premature and have a lot of health complications. I see what you are saying though and this is a very personal decision to make and shouldn't involve other people's opinions on the matter; only the woman's (or if applicable the father's opinion as well)!
Thank you for saying this, it's something that needs to be said. They often do have bad lives if they were born from rape or incest. They have actual health problems when born from incest sometimes.
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I agree with you.
Given that the odds of actually getting pregnant are small even without birth control (20% to 25% from a healthy 20s woman), I think you're in good hands! Just make sure to keep using birth control and being responsible if you do decide to engage! Anyway that's awesome to hear! :)
What if the guy persuades her to abort and then he leaves anyway?
@Jamie05rhs then he didn’t want to commit and now she has no ties to him leaving to do what she wants. Overall a good situation.
Well, I'm just saying women shouldn't be blackmailed into aborting their baby by their boyfriends who may leave them later anyway. Just consider that as a possibility. He could just be no good and be manipulating you.
@Jamie05rhs no. They shouldn’t. Just like they shouldn’t be pressed to keeping it.At the end of the day, regardless religiously or abortion stance, the woman does 90% of the work in a pregnancy. The man has his seconds of fun and a woman has to watch her diet, exercise, etc etc. In a committed relationship I’d like to think the man will help her off the sofa, out the bath and in the later days help her wash and keep clean (many of my friends have said how they physically can’t reach their legs to wash).If a woman wants to keep the child that’s, within reason, her choice. Eg, she may have accidentally become pregnant but spent years unable. She may have a countdown on her head.Wherever possible a conversation should be had but really I think women have the swinging say in this matter. That doesn’t mean a woman should blackmail a man “I have your baby support it” because that’s completely unfair.
I'm personally open to any kind of views. So please feel free to share your valuable thoughts with me.
That's terrible. I'm so sorry. :(
I don't think your life gets ruined. My ex neighbor and ex friend had a baby back in 2004 when she was 20 years old. She seems to be doing fine! In fact, Matthew has grown up to be such a tall, handsome young man now. It's amazing! Of course she had some help from her parents (and maybe the baby's father?) but in the end, I think she made the right decision to keep her baby. She might have not ever had the chance to later in life. If she got an abortion, she might have ended up regretting the decision for the rest of her life I'm thinking.
@SueAnon84 That’s great for her and I know there are plenty of people who don’t have their lives totally ruined by things like this but at my age and in my situation, having a baby would be a major setback.
Amen! Preach, sister!
@Jamie05rhs Lol i serious tho
I'm serious, too!
@Jamie05rhs Ok goid cause I don't know why people feel comfortable killing a child or a human being that did nothing to u that's murder tbh 💯‼️😤😠😡
You mean the odds of it succeeding are that much more.
@Jamie05rhs No the odds of it failing are that much more if you both use birth control
@Jamie05rhs Oops, got that backwards. The odds of getting pregnant are less if both use birth control.
"If you are still young and not ready to bring up a kid, then also it's fine to abort early. " I think if you are already menstruating then nature is telling you that you are now PHYSICALLY capable of getting pregnant and giving birth!
Also, I don't get why this question is open for men... lol
They are the part of the process :)
Um, no. Would you have something in your body altering your lifestyle and body (hello hips!) for up to 9 months, go through labour and get stitches on your privates OR a scar on your stomach for c-section and then give it up? I’d abort pronto.
@Jammers14 You already had a dick inside your body knowing it could alter your lifestyle and create your child. Why should the child pay with its life for your mistake?
This is by far the best opinion I've read. I 100% agree with you. The baby definetly doesn't deserve to be killed Just because a person didn't think before they acted, and now doesn't want to act mature and take responsibility for it. We all perfectly know that having sex will get a woman pregnant and so there is no excuse. If you have sex, you get pregnant. What else do these people expect to happen? I would also proceed to have the baby too. These people are perfectly capable of knowing that there's still a risk of getting pregnant even on birth control...😕
I read through the other's opinions and it is usually one of five scenarios.1. Both wants the baby ( some will be celibate until marriage)2. Both wants abortion (resources, timing and willingness)3. Only mother wants the baby (father will be forced into parenthood and wil be blamed/anchored/extorted)4. Only father wants the baby (it ends in abortion and he is left suffering or she gives in and births the baby with full on resentment.)
Yeah, it is better to keep in mind that birth control could fail.
Yup expect the unexpected
Its a good thing child support exsists! :)
Accidents do happen.
Yeah.I just can't imagine myself having kids but I also can't live with the thought of having killed a baby... my own baby. 👀
It's not "killing a baby" if abortion is done in the first 12 weeks. At that stage it is just a lump of cells and not even a life form yet
Then it is up to you to use a condom. It should not be up to the girl alone to prevent pregnancy where none is wanted.
We had our condom broke a couple of times so yeah you just can't solely rely on it to prevent pregnancy.
How does a very stretchable translucent condom break? ! And have you considered going on the pill or the IUD or DEPO shot or the patch? ! There's a lot more options you can choose from not just the condom! You can even choose to abstain!
It slipped off many times too.
You mean using the "pull out" method? My man can't always do it on time I guess :)
That’s right !
Then he was being optimistic for wearing a bigger one than he needed. If the fit is right it won't slip off.
I will make sure he uses the right size. I guess though it can still slip off due to wetness, hard pounding, etc..
Sometimes a pregnancy can occur even when birth control has been used. Most birth control is only like 98% effective.
Even with both the man and the woman getting their tubes tied? That seems highly unlikely.
No (but in uncommon cases that actually can happen). I was referring to the more common birth control that isn't a surgical procedure.
Well, it sounds to me like people should be using more reliable forms of birth control. What's the point of paying money for pills if they don't work?
Because that's the best they get... same as how condoms only are like 98% effective?
A hysterectomy is a little extreme. Having the tubes tied is a lot less invasive procedure.
@Lauren-green If both the guy and girl use birth control it is closer to 100%
Yes, @Daniela1982. Thank you.
Closer, but still not 100%. It is still only 99% effective, you can Google it if you don't believe me. It is encouraged to use more than one birth control to ensure it is closer to 100% but it is never garunteed that it will always work. Like this literally happened with my uncle and aunty, he has a vasectomy and they were using a condom but somehow one little guy got through. (Before anyone says she probably cheated and it's not his, it is🤦🏻♀️). And my friend had to take the morning after pill because she was on the have which is like 97% effective and the condom slipped off when they were having sex 🤷🏻♀️
Jab* not have*
@Lauren-green 98 99% is a really low odds
Did you know for a woman to get her tubes tied in my country. You have to be over 30 and have had two kids already. Lol. Sooo good luck with finding a girl that has her tubes tied.
And yet you are here giving an opinion.
@Daniela1982 Maybe you prefer to have guys tell you what to do with your body. I object to the idea.
You finally said something good 👍
@Aphrodite801 Ohhh your opinion matters SOOOO much to me.
Why are you being mean to walrus? He’s being supportive. Be nice.
@AmandaYVR I came across Aphrodite801 in some other thread. And wasn't amenable to being bullied into her point of view.It's a shame, but maturity catches up with some folks slower than others.
Both of you can Stfu
@Aphrodite801 You know that when you behave childishly, people will treat you that way right?
Walrus here acting like he's some sort of "male savior" and then he attacks a woman. Typical SJW hypocrite.
@Jamie05rhs Ahhh - see the sanctimonious, snowflake dipshit, jumps in on the middle of an interaction and thinks he knows stuff he doesn't.Thankyou for drawing attention to yourself.
Wrong amigo. A women’s egg doesn’t fertilize itself. It is our responsibility as men to protect all life, including the unborn. Period.
@Aphrodite801 . so if when you were yet unborn and your mother was to make this choice and have you murdered in her womb you are okay with that? I’m so sorry.
@Jackson8650 Yeah you're right. We do need men, and you men need us women. We both need each other. We as women would be completely useless without you men around and the same also goes for you men. Obviously without men we wouldn't be able to have babies and the population would also die out...
@Jackson8650 if her mother aborted she wouldn't be thinking or worrying about a thing because she wouldn't exist. What a bone-headed assertion.Until birth, it's not a being with a soul according to the bible. "With a babe's first breath it breaths in a soul"
Of you’re going to use Scripture, use it correctly and use it all. Maybe start with the Visitation (Luke 2:44) of you like. The Bible is very clear the God defines human life in the womb and by the way SO DOES SCIENCE. Science defines life as cell division and those division at Conception is when it starts, with genetic code for the whole build. Nice try. Hope you can work through your angry pride someday soon... PAX
@Jackson8650 If you are going to use science, stop misrepresenting it. Science cannot at any point determine a clear line between when it is a foetus and when it becomes a baby.The best you get is 'viability' which is when there is a reasonable chance of the foetus surviving outside of the womb.Most of the 'pro-life' claims about things like heartbeats are a joke, since usually the stages they claim there is one there isn't even a heart.And anyone who is so dedicated to declaring a foetus a fully rights holding human with rights over ad above the incubator keeping it alive, won't grant the mother the right to pursue child support till after the child is born, wrongfully incarcerates the pre-born when they want the mother incarcerated, and so on.In Exodus 21:22 the bible makes it clear that causing a miscarriage - that would be killing the foetus, does NOT carry the punishment for murder. Which it certainly would do if the foetus were to be considered a fully rights holding human huh?That pile of bigot feeding garbage you call a holy book swings it both ways.You clearly consider that the mother has less rights than a brain dead potential kidney donor.So I don't think i will be coming to you for a discussion about human rights, the concept seems to be beyond you.And yes, I am angry. I am angry that bigots like yourself are doing their best to take rights away from people. If you think that people having their rights taken away shouldn't make people angry, then you're clearly doing life wrong.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Walruuus! Walruuus! (that's me cheering your name in the crowd). No one can retort back to what you just said. That was a 'drop the mic' moment. Done.What we have here is a case of Righteous Condemnation.https://youtu.be/mp6GIrVGvQY?t=168
@AmandaYVR You know that walrus' make very ungainly and clumbsy bows right? Anyone front stage is at risk of a falling pinneped!
I'll step back a little then. But carry on. I had to Google your word, so might as well tell you then... it's 'pinniped'.
The video upload didn't save the time stamp as I wanted it to. The phrase 'righteous condemnation" is around 2:55.
@AmandaYVR I was pretty sure I spelt it wrong @ the time, I blame sleep deprivation.
@AmandaYVR the vid time stamp seemed to work for me...I remember that episode... hehehehehehe
Oh it did? Hmm. Yeah, I tested it before, and then after, and the two didn't jive for me. Buggy here, I guess.Yes, Laurie Metcalf is such a rock star. Nobody's better than her with comedy timing. I esp watch all her repeat episodes.This string is so ugly here, topic, but I keep coming back for a laugh with you. Gotta add some levity to life.
@AmandaYVR Levity I can do... Levitate is more difficult for a tonne and a half of ocean going mammal...
You’re arguments are irrelevant and ignorant as they lack truth. Mix drop. Shit. Your brain is scrambled in pride. You speak of human rights? What of the rights of the little human being killed within the woman? You use the word “Fetus” which of course is translated from Latin to “little one” meaning offspring of the parents. Not a daisy, tadpole, car door or brick. There is no conversation of human rights with you or anyone who agrees with your prideful ignorance of social justice without protection of the weakest among us. May God forgive you, and me for our injustice and grant mercy on our souls.
@Jackson8650 even if you grant a foetus full human status, giving it rights over and above other humans is not acceptable.If I were dying and in need of a liver transplant, and you were the only possible match in the world. I don't have the right to over-rule your rights and have it taken without your consent, even if you are a crash victim in a vegitative state that said no organ donation on your licence.And no, I don't grant a potential human more rights than a real, actualised one. I use the word foetus because I am speaking English, not Latin. And I am referring to a potential human, not a human.And if you want to claim the god hypothesis, then the fairly high rate of spontaneous miscarriages makes him/her/it the most prolific abortionist this planet will ever see.So frankly, your disrespectful, sanctimonious rhetoric is nothing but dishonest thumb twiddling. More than that, thumb twiddling that promotes forcing half the population to become incubators regardless of their safety, needs or wishes.Why do you think so little of women? Why take away their rights? Ohhh right, your bloodthirsty imaginary friend...
I leave this conversation assured that I stand on solid ground on this issue. You keep continue flailing around angrily in your false rhetoric if you wish. Peace be upon you.
@Jackson8650 enjoy your fantasy.People who care about other humans have seen what you stand for and can make their own decisions.
Oh this is funny. @Jackson8650 I’ve had an abortion myself. My mother has also had an abortion before. I’m not ashamed of it at all, never will be. You can’t make a baby, you never will be able to. So stfu
@Aphrodite801 oh really? I'm sorry to hear that...😞. I'm the same age as you and If would've been a hard time for me if that happened to me at this age. So sorry...❤
@Walrus_au There's loads of guys that force us to let them have a say in what we do with our bodies already. It's us that need to have a say in what we do, since it would've been our own babies. But guys wouldn't care about what happens with us anyway...
@Shafaq_Mahnoor96 I couldn't agree more.And as someone who has ridden passenger through some of the risks of pregnancy, Anyone who claims that some politician or priest should have say over decisions about this kind of thing is showing clearly that it is not life they support.
I think it would be silly to assume that a baby doesn't have a soul before it's born.