Is the clitoris flawed?

[mistixs]

Some people say that the clitoris is flawed for not being placed in the vagina. But the clitoris's placement outside of the vagina allows the clitoris to be stimulated to orgasm, even when there's no penetration & therefore, no risk of pregnancy. & It's still positioned in such a way that it can easily be manually stimulated to orgasm during penetration.

It's not the clitoris's fault that our current society prioritizes the activities that give the most physical pleasure to males (such as penetration) over the activities that give the most physical pleasure to females (via clitoral stimulation). The Bible's Song of Solomon references male-on-female oral sex multiple times.

Before someone says that the clitoris is a byproduct of the penis: that myth drives me crazy because it makes no sense because if that was the case, women would pee out of their clitorises like men pee out of their penises.

[lumos]

It's not flawed. And I don't see why we would *have* to orgasm through penetration. Penetration is such a small aspect of sex, when you take into consideration all the things you can do during foreplay and all the feelings you get when having sex with someone you love and care about.

Also, I think it's VERY possible that more women probably COULD have an orgasm for penetrative sex. I think a lot of women are facing several problems:
a) they don't have the patience to try it for long enough in different positions and using different techniques/toys etc, to see what *actually* works for them.
b) they haven't found a partner who knows what he's doing, or who's willing/patient enough.
c) they're too sexually repressed to even want to give it a shot. It's very common for women to think it's embarrassing to explore their own body/sexuality, and therefore they don't even know what works.
d) they've heard from everyone else that "penetrative sex rarely gives women orgasms" so why would things be different for them? This sort of mental block could easily make it so much more difficult to achieve an orgasm through penetrative sex, because they've already dismissed it in their minds.

Society's views on female pleasure/orgasm is still very narrow. So many people still think that the man's pleasure is much more important (hence the focus on penetrative sex), and that a woman's pleasure is secondary. Just think about how common it is for men to have an orgasm during sex vs how common it is for women. Not to mention the idea that sex stops once the guy has finished, and if the woman didn't manage to get hers before he was done... tough luck. Like he just rolls over and that's that? Honestly I feel so sorry for women who are in a relationship like that.

So no, the clitoris is not flawed at all. It can and does respond to stimulation from both the outside and the inside, which is super convenient, especially if you don't want to just have boring penetrative sex. The *tip* of the clitoris has double the amount of nerve endings compared to a penis. Nothing about any of this sounds like a flaw to me.

[lumos]

Actually now that I think about all of this, I think foreplay is such a dumb word. It's also very penetration-focused. Like everything you do before penetration is just fluff, and the big event is the actual penetration. That's such bullshit lol.

[Jessica_Pin]

Hey I love your answer, but just FYI, the claim that the clitoris has double the nerve endings comes from studies of cows (and bulls) and sheep. The numbers of nerve fibers in the dorsal nerves of the clitoris and penis have not been compared in humans. Most doctors actually assume the nerves in the clitoris are “very small.” Some even insist “microscopic.” My anatomic study showed they are 2-3 mm in diameter inside the clitoral body. That means they are larger than diameters found in the penis. However, based on just a cursory review of studies of the dorsal nerves of the penis, there is more branching, so there are variably 2-6 nerves rather than just 2.

[lumos]

@Jessica_Pin care to share a link or two to some sources?

[Jessica_Pin]

I can’t link. Search for “anatomical dissection of the dorsal nerve of the clitoris.” Use google scholar for studies of penises. They’re everywhere

[Jessica_Pin]

I agree

[mistixs]

@Jessica_Pin hey! I have read your work before and find it very inspiring. Please message me so we can talk more! As you can probably tell from this post, I'm all about cliteracy :D

[BlackRoseFairy]

"Before someone says that the clitoris is a byproduct of the penis: that myth drives me crazy because it makes no sense because if that was the case, women would pee out of their clitorises like men pee out of their penises."

It's not a myth, it's science. For the record, Embryology.
And according to embryology the development of the external genitalia begins in the third week, when the cloacal folds are formed. The cloacal folds gradually fuse to give the genital tubercle, which is divided into the urethral folds (anterior) and anal folds (posterior).

In Males, under the presence of testosterone, there is rapid elongation of the genital tubercle, which becomes the phallus (aka penis).
The urethral folds are pulled to form the urethral groove (where the penile urethra will be), while the folds close over at the 4th month.

In Females, under the absence of testosterone, the genital tubercle only elongates slightly to form the clitoris.
Here the urethral folds do not fuse, but instead form the labia minora.
The urogenital groove therefore remains open, forming the vestibule into which the urethra and vagina open

So the clitoris is not flawed. It is formed from a different embryological structure, than the vagina.

[mistixs]

Yes, the clitoris and penis are homologous structures. That doesn't mean the clitoris is a byproduct of the penis. The ovary is homologous to the penis; that doesn't mean that one is a byproduct of the other.

[mistixs]

Ovary is homologous to the testicles*

[BlackRoseFairy]

Ths way you wrote it, it didn't sound like you knew the difference. In fact many people don't. Most guys I know never put two and two together and are completely ignorant of the fact that the clitoris can behave like the penis (filling up with blood, getting an erection, etc).

[rose_lynnn]

Body parts were made how they were for a reason. I think the clit is well placed because you have easy access to it during sex and you can masturbate it easily. If it was placed in the vagina it would be almost impossible to reach and stimulate as easily, plus less women are comfortable doing that. We still get pleasure out of penetration, it's just some women like clitoral action because let's be honest it feels amazing. I think that everything was placed properly and it's just up to the owner and the people interacting with it to learn how to use it to it's full potential

[Kurαȷ]

"Before someone says that the clitoris is a byproduct of the penis:"

The fact that clitoris and penis are homologous structures, made of the same erectile tissues and formed from the same outgrowth in a process of sexual differentiation is not a "myth" but a hard medical fact.
You can read about how the urethra, penis and/or clitoris develop in presence of different sexual hormones, if it makes no sense to you.

As for clitoris, there is little to no evidence to suggest that it serves any adaptive function, but there is a mounting amount of evidence to suggest that it is simply just vestigial, much the same way nipples serve no function in human males.

Female orgasm has no biological or evolutionary significance, if it had, upwards of 60% of women wouldn't be reporting failure to orgasm via conventional means.

To say that "current society" doesn't prioritize the clitoris is silly.
Humans are and have always been patriarchal species, for hundreds of thousands of years women would get pinned down and raped, there would be no "oral stimulation" or paying any attention to the clitoris of any kind.
And why would there be? What possible evolutionary and biological purpose would female orgasm serve?

We could argue that "squirting" (involuntary urination) serves the purpose of cleaning the urethra of any bacteria that could have been introduced into it during sex, but even then, it is far more likely that this is simply the product of urethra being stimulated through the vaginal wall during intercourse, seeing as the "g spot" does not have any anatomical distinction from the rest of the vagina, except for its proximity to the urethra.

So I'm afraid, but I can't say that there is much in the way of support for the idea that evolution cares about clitoris or female orgasm as a whole.
When there is, it's more about "how it is patriarchal oppression to claim otherwise" than it is about real sound science.

[mistixs]

1) The Bible's Song of Solomon mentions female sexual pleasure 2x as often as male pleasure & references male-on-female oral sex multiple times. The Bible itself promotes female pleasure more than male pleasure; it only commands women to sexually satisfy their partners for the sake of preventing adultery (Prov 5 and 1 Cor 7) but commands men to sexually satisfy their partners just for the sake of it (Exodus 21:10). 2) Homologous =/= byproduct. Yes they evolved from the same structure. Humans also evolved from the same ancestors as bonobos; that doesn't mean humans are a byproduct of bonobos, or vice versa. 3) There's evidence that women orgasm more easily and frequently with high-quality mates. Female orgasm serves to act as a litmus test to differentiate high-quality from low-quality mates. I know that some men HATE the mate-choice theory, because it indicates that if they can't make women orgasm, it might be their own fault. But it's a fact. Neither female nor male orgasm is a necessity for reproduction. It's possible for men to ejaculate without orgasm; it's called "ejaculating anhedonia". Both men's and women's orgasm serve to encourage men and women to pursue their respective reproductive strategies - which is quantity for men, and quality for women.

[mistixs]

"Female orgasm functions to promote good mate choices... How often women experienced orgasm, as a result of sexual intercourse, was related to their partner's family income... and how attractive he was. Orgasm intensity was also related to how attracted they were to their partners, how many times they had sex per week, and ratings of sexual satisfaction.
Those with partners who their friends rated as more attractive also tended to have more intense orgasms... Sexual satisfaction was related to how physically attracted women were to their partner and the breadth of his shoulders."
journals.sagepub.com/.../147470491401200507

Hmm... so women orgasm more often with high-quality mates, and they have sex with those mates more often, too. I wonder if the orgasm could be motivating them to have more sex with their high-quality partner?

But if it makes you feel better about the fact that you can't bring a woman to orgasm, then feel free to cling to the idea that the clitoris and female orgasm are vestigial and DON'T function to inform a woman about the quality of her mate.

[Kurαȷ]

If women employed any sort of "sexual prowess" in their mate selection criteria, how do you explain the fact that so many men are still sexually inadequate and seemingly negligent towards female sexuality? Why are penises still so small? Why do the few historically matriarchal societies happen to be in Asia which also happens to be the region with the smallest average penis size? Wouldn't sexual mate selection according to your hypothesis result in the world being full of huge dicked sex machines? That's how selection works. I don't "hate" the idea, I just think that it is implausible and that there really isn't anything out there to support it.

[Kurαȷ]

I'm not denying that people don't want a better sexual partner, I'm just saying that for it to be a relevant evolutionary factor is laughable. Women who would select partners on the basis of how good they are at sex, would die off because they didn't apply relevant criteria such as the ability of the male to protect and provide for them and their offspring, for example. That's how evolution works, it doesn't care about your subjective level of satisfaction.

[mistixs]

1) Human penises aren't small; they're pretty big compared to other animals, especially in terms of girth, which is what's important to female sexual pleasure. 2) "the ability of the male to protect and provide for them and their offspring" That's exactly why female orgasm is more difficult. If a man expends more effort beyond what is physically pleasurable to himself (penetration) that demonstrates that he's not selfish, and is more likely to be considerate & help support her during pregnancy and beyond. Meanwhile, if a man doesn't care about bringing her pleasure, then it is unlikely that he would be a suitable mate that would provide for her and her children. Rubbing a woman's clitoris is way easier than supporting her during her pregnancy; if he's not willing to rub her clit, then he almost assuredly wouldn't support her during pregnancy.

[mistixs]

by the way I have another note regarding your claim that patriarchal societies historically didn't care about female sexual pleasure.
I already provided evidence that's not true for Christian societies (& in another comment, I linked you to a source).

Here's some info from a Jewish website that says that the same is the case for Jewish societies:
"A man has a duty to give his wife sex regularly and to ensure that sex is pleasurable for her. He is also obligated to watch for signs that his wife wants sex, and to offer it to her without her asking for it.

The woman's right to sexual intercourse is referred to as onah, and it is one of a wife's three basic rights (the others are food and clothing), which a husband may not reduce... There are passages in the Talmud that encourage foreplay to arouse the woman. (Nedarim 20a)...

A husband's consistent refusal to engage in sexual relations is grounds for compelling a man to divorce his wife."
http://www.jewfaq.org/m/sex.htm

[Jessica_Pin]

Love your comments. Find me on Instagram @jessica_ann_pin. I’ve been trying to get detailed clitoral anatomy into medical literature and curricula. I got it into two major OB/GYN textbooks. But I think spreading awareness will help. There needs to be a major shift in how people perceive the medical importance of clitoral function.

[FunkyMonkee]

When we're still in the womb, we are ALL girls for first 3 months. If a baby is to become a boy, when the hormones kick in at the 3 month mark, what would've been his labia grows together around the clit and becomes the shaft of his dick. (Look at the bottom of a guys dick and you should see what looks like a long crooked scar. That's what used to be the labia.) The clit grows bigger and longer to become his dick and the hood over the clit becomes his foreskin. The urethra gets surrounded by the labia and part of the urethra and grows into the clit so he can eventually pee and cum.
So, no, your clit is NOT flawed, it's exactly where it's supposed to be. As far as sex goes, it's located where, when screwing doggy style, which is how we're built to fuck, the guys balls are supposed to repeatedly smack your clit and stimulate it.
In case you're wondering, his balls are what used to be his ovaries. And, when you fuck doggy style, your uterus is in such a position where, when he cums in you, it just drops right down into your cervix almost making SURE you get pregnant! If you fuck missionary, when he cums in you, and you cum, too, your cervix has to repeatedly dip down into the pool of cum and suck it up into your uterus.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

We are not all females in the womb. God made us male and female. Not having a developed penis yet, doesn't mean we are female. We have the programming of either a male or a female, regardless if its design in carried to fruition immediately or not. Our sex potential is already male or female, so if we have yet to achieved the fruits from our determined sex, it doesn't make us females by default.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

is carried, not in carried

[FunkyMonkee]

@Exorcist_Rampage Bullshit!! God doesn't exist! We ALL start out as female, look it up in a SCIENCE book., not a science FICTION book, like the bible.

[Exorcist_Rampage]

Saying God doesn't exist can be said but not shown by your actions.

You can't prove a negative, so you're a wuss to use a negative.

Wrong. Not having a penis developed yet doesn't make me a female. Science is a religion too. It is based on sense data. You must trust that your senses are a perfect representation of reality. Wusses cuss also. You cuss because all knows God exist. People are without excuse. Saying God doesn't exist can be said but not lived.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trHVU9QeGB0

[Exorcist_Rampage]

If you can't verify it to be fiction, you can't rightfully call it fiction, regardless if it is or not. Please stop replying to me or please block me if you want. You believe in God regardless what you say.

[curiousnorway]

I think it's fine how it's now, since then both males and females can achieve pleasure without procreation. Men has the glans and women the clitoris. As long we've a world with people only wanting pleasure and not children, the bodies we've should be like how it's now and it decrease the abortion rates too. It makes masturbation and safer sex possible. If vaginal penetration was mandatory to make sex pleasurable, then more unwanted pregnancies and abortions would happen. Not practical.

[sejla]

It is either a penis or a clitoris. It isn't a myth.

[AlienParasite]

As long as I know, clitoris' nerves connect with vagina. So it's possible to stimulate clitoris through penetration. Plus, some positions can cause the external part of the clitoris to be rubbed during penetration. Therefore I don't understand why is flawed.

If a woman can't reach the orgasm the normal thing to blame is her mind and maybe his lover's seductive abilities. Many women are not excited enaugh, relaxed enaugh or can't stop thinking about their problems and concentrate in pleasure, causing penetration to hurt or not be pleasurable. Some guys would lack of the required ability to help the girl to be relaxed and excited enaugh.

So, in conclusion, I believe the clitoris is not flawed.

[CharlieBadger]

A guy who claims it's flawed is apparently one who doesn't like going down on a woman or playing with the clit during intercourse. He sounds more concerned with what gives him pleasure than with bringing pleasure to his mate.

As far as the clit being a byproduct of the penis, the flaw with that is that it is reversed. We all start developing as female. And then at about 7 weeks the Y chromosome changes the plan and testosterone starts to develop. What would be ovaries becomes testicles, what would be the clitoris becomes the penis.

[Jessica_Pin]

Yup and that kind of guy is exactly the kind of guy we wouldn’t be able to rely on if we get pregnant and need help raising kids...

[Daniela1982]

God created it so how can it be bad? Too bad men cannot see it for what it is.

[chris_987]

Lol so what is it?

[purplepoppy]

To be flawed would mean it was designed rather than arose through evolution. You forget that penetration is uncomfortable or even impossible if a woman isn't aroused, this is the real function of the clitoris, it gets you ready for sex.

[katiesmuff]

People are getting so stupid about some things such as this topic. The clit has served women very well

[coralee]

Any one who says it's flawed is admitting to being bad in bed. Women do not need clitoral stimulation to achieve an orgasm. It is just one of the ways they can achieve orgasm. Anyone who is too lazy to do anything other then in and out action isn't worth your time.

[Ceasar97]

evolution, if you believe in it, does not aim for perfection, but rather just for what works. There are animals, like the whale, that have bones that are worthless to them. As for society, society is very flawed in many ways, but the people that make society are people like you and I.
"[We] have to be the change we want to see the world."
- Gandhi
Although, I don't think he was talking about pleasuring the clitoris, lol.

[hahahmm]

I think orgasm can be almost all caused by mental stuff even if at the simple level it can be triggered by physical activity/nerve endings. This is why one woman can get O in 1 second with a man and another needs 20 minutes with a power tool. So the real flaw is in training process then - if I’m right.

[Madhatter920]

The clitoris is exactly where it needs to be, humans are just dumb. The entire purpose behind sex giving pleasure is to encourage procreation. Nature wants you to make babies. Now look at every other mammal in the world. How do they have sex? What we call "doggy style." In this position, the testicles of the male will stimulate the clitoris with each thrust. That's why the clitoris is where it is.

[mistixs]

How do the testicles stimulate the clitoris during doggystyle? I'm so obviously a virgin 😂

[Madhatter920]

When the man thrusts to the base, the testicles which hang beneath the penis, rub against the clitoris. Interesting side, note, do you know why the head of a penis is shaped the way it is? The ridge where the shaft ends and the penis head begins is for scraping the sperm of rivals out of the woman's vagina so the man can replace it with his own and pass on his own genetics. Ain't nature weird af?

[S8nBam]

I think the ball's stimulate the clit too. Because the clit extends around both lips. I know my partner's have always loved that feeling.

[S8nBam]

But then I'm not a girl

[ohshee]

Maybe God new men were going to be stupid about all kinds of things. Look he had to give us dog,, so man could learn unconditionall love in stead of taking our brains out and playing with then ,, four play before sex so he put it first. ,, so we would remember he's hoping we are smart enough to incorporate them both together , we took to long to figure it out so women became lesbians. And he tried to give up slurppys cola and cherry at the same time but we just dont get it.

[SarahsSummer]

mine isn't

[Aaliyahvcxz]

Here’s food for thought: maybe the clitoris was designed so women can experience sexual pleasure during our menstrual cycle.

[mistixs]

I don't think that's the only reason - not by a long shot - but it's definitely a positive function. I've thought the same of why many women experience pleasure from having their nipples/breasts stimulated.

[Aaliyahvcxz]

I’m so sorry. I was 1000000% not serious lmao. I guess sarcasm was not conveyed in my comment. 😂😂😂

[nerms123]

I personally don’t think it’s flawed and many women can orgasm from penetration or even anal etc in some cases. However many things in the human body can be considered to have design flaws. For example what’s the point of having teeth that can rot or things like that.

[integrale77]

I don't think it's flawed I think bigger question is from evolution has it become more external?

When it comes to sex stimulation of the clit and orgasm have no affect on reproduction aside from being something to entice women into having sex. This sounds a little mad unless your apply it to cavemen/women where times where simpler.

[mistixs]

I don't understand how you think it "sounds a little mad." It's a perfectly useful function to require men to expend effort beyond that which is physically pleasurable to himself (penetration). This demonstrates to a woman that he would be a considerate and nonselfish partner who would be (more likely to be) supportive during her pregnancy and beyond. This function (of weeding out selfish partners) would be nullified if the clitoris was inside the vagina & could only be stimulated if a woman had already taken the risk of pregnancy with the guy.

[integrale77]

Found this interesting article www.smithsonianmag.com/.../

[Optymistyk]

The clitoris is very much a byproduct of the penis, but only the glans part. A real penis simply merges with the urethra at the base. Men even have an abdominal cavity where a woman would have a vagina. The testes are male versions of ovaries and stay in the abdominal cavity at birth, only at a later date they descent down into the scrotum. An embryo has protogenitalia that could develop into either male or female from the same tissue.

Many animal species have the clitoris inside the vagina, for example rabbits (that's why rabbits multiply so fast lol) That's why nobody really knows why in primates this is not the case. From a reproduction standpoint it doesn't mean much sense

[mistixs]

"From a reproduction standpoint it doesn't mean much sense" It does make sense. Due to narrower hips (due to walking upright) & human's proportionately large brains, pregnancy and childbearing is much more difficult/dangerous for humans than most other species. So humans are more dependent on having a suitable mate to support them during pregnancy and beyond. The clitoris being outside the vagina means that in order to sexually satisfy a woman, a man has to expend effort beyond that which is physically pleasurable to himself (penetration). This demonstrates to a woman that he would be a considerate and nonselfish partner who would be supportive during her pregnancy and beyond. This function (of weeding out selfish partners) would be nullified if the clitoris was inside the vagina & could only be stimulated if a woman had already taken the risk of pregnancy with the guy.

[Optymistyk]

I'm not going to pretend I know what is the sexual behavior in Animals. I know some species do practice oral sex. Maybe.

[Apple1996]

The clit is perfect the way it is, I don't see at all how it would be flawed

[mistixs]

Notice how everybody saying it's flawed is a man? It's just men who are bitter that they have to expend more effort besides just jamming their dicks into the vagina.

[Apple1996]

Yess true must just be something men dont understand. The female body makes sense, it would be stupid to have any nerves in the vagina considering that's where babies pop out of. If it was sensitive inside it would be extremely painful to have a baby. It's better to have all the nerves at the clit so it's out of the way for birth

[ChronicThinker]

Mine works just fine, I don't know what that mofo is talking about.

[Bad_Man55]

Flawed or not the clitoris is something that is very important when it comes to sex. If you told a naive person that on a womans body there is this part that when treated the right way will make her go wild with pleasure and make the sexual experience so much better for all, would you want like to learn about it? The answer would be hell yes! Why overthink the anatomy of it. Giving oral to a woman is a huge turn on for me and I love doing it, can't get enough of it. Plus penetration after the clitoral orgasm feels amazing.