If a lady pokes holes in the condom, should the father have to pay?

[Shamalien]

Simple question, let's watch as everyone tries to dance around it.

[White_Widow]

I know this happens, and that's horrible to say the least. It happens the other way around as well to be fair.

When it happens the other way around and the girl doesn't want to have the baby, a lot of men would say, "she still needs to give birth to the baby and then just give it up to the father if she doesn't want anything to do with the baby". But what if there are complications with the pregnancy, what if it'll cost her life to give birth and it wasn't even her choice to begin with since the man she had sex with put holes in the condom?

Isn't fair to say that one should get know the person you have sex with to make sure you can trust one another? And if this happens to either of them that well, you only have yourself to blame for making bad choices?

I'm not making excuses, and yes you could call it rape on some level I suppose. But in the end, both were there. Guys can get their own condoms and not rely on the girl bringing them. If she insisted on using her own and the guy agrees, he accepts the risks that come with it or he should say "no" and walk away.

So should he pay? with all do respect... Yes.

Should there be a punishment for the girl? Yes. And there should be a punishment for guys who do this as well.

But I think it's more important to realize, WHY this happens and do something with that instead. Since these kind of things usually happen out of fear. Fear of losing the one they are with, or fear of not having a child otherwise.

(part from the few exceptions of people trying to get a load of money out of some celebrity)

[Shamalien]

I must disagree. I see it as forcing someone to have unprotected sex when they only consented to protected sex. Seeing as there was intent behind what she was doing, he cannot fairly be responsible for the results of what happened. This is a fine line for me, I do believe that any time you have sex there are risks, and if it happened by accident, then that's a different story, but if she purposefully poked holes in the condom, he needs to be free to go.

[White_Widow]

So bad decision making and getting involved with the wrong person isn't a factor in this case? Aren't we responsible for our own actions? So it's the girls responsibility to bring the condoms? And like I said, what if it happens the other way around? The guy pokes holes in the condom? What then? And then on another matter... How does one proof that that's what actually happened and the condom didn't just break? Or precum is what actually made the pregnancy happen before the condom went on? There are so many plausible scenarios. It doesn't change the fact that you need two to have sex and that the risk of pregnancy is practically always there. And both carry the responsibility if pregnancy does happen. I agree that paying child support should in no way be the same as supporting the mother. But the child deserves the resources needed to grow and learn as any other. And like I also said. I do think the mother in this case should be allowed to get away with this unpunished. I will also admit that I wouldn't know right now on the top of my head waht would be a suitable punishment. But hey, karma is a bitch and she'll be punished eventually anyway. Cause if she's capable of poking holes in a condom, than sooner or later the truth will come out and I doubt she'd be a good mother and she'd have to bare those consequences as well.

[White_Widow]

*Shouldn't be allowed to get away with unpunished! Sorry, stupid phone lol

[Shamalien]

Yeah tbh the child is fkd from the moment they are conceived because their mom is a liar and a deceiver. I think you are beating around the bush here. This has nothing to do with who brings condoms, it has to do with betrayal of trust. If the man pulls off the condom and cums in her without consent, that is rape, since the person only consented to protected sex. The other way around is also rape. I don’t think you should have to pay child support if you were raped. The risk id pregnancy is always there, and if it happens by accident then he is responsible, but poking holes in a condom is no accident. I don’t even care about proof, if I found out that the girl did that I wouldn’t give a dime to her or the kid, she is fully responsible for that situation once she makes the decision to betray me. Once again, kids don’t get child support, moms do, and I wouldn’t trust someone so deceitful to take care of the kid

[White_Widow]

Look, I agree with you on the fact that it's an act of betrayal and that it is done without consent and that this is something that should be punished. On the other hand, when we're talking about an act of betrayal and we would compare this to an act of infidelity, you'd be the first person to say, "you should have chosen a better partner" or something of the sort and in that case, poor decision making is definitely a factor. So why not now? Explain that to me please. I also agreed that the mother in this case doesn't deserve support. But the kid didn't choose to be born, it's not the kids fault that he/she has a deceitful mother so from where I'm sitting, the kid doesn't deserve to be punished for being born. If this would happen, a suitable consequence would be that either the father acts like a grown up and does everything in his power to get custody of the kid and do a better job than the mother ever could and in return he gets the child support from the mother.

[White_Widow]

Now you could say, the father didn't choose this either and why should he raise the kid. But in that case, how selfish would that be? That a guy rather chooses to go out, party, work, find another girl, create a different/new/better family, instead of growning up, pulling himself together and show everyone who's the better person here? Instead of saying, that girl betrayed me, so I don't give a fuck about the girl or THE CHILD? So you'd rather let the kid rot with his deceitful mother or let it go into the system? Instead of taking some responsibility for trusting the wrong person, not bringing your own condoms and go on with life like it never happened? Cause it doesn't fit in your pretty picture of saving yourself until marriage and creating a stable family as you pictured it? I don't mean to be offensive or anything. But if this would happen to anyone, that person was still there, he chose to have sex and trust the wrong person. So either pay the child support or fight for custody and get the child support from the mother. Instead of letting your own flesh and blood rot somewhere because you made a bad choice and got stepped on your toes because of it.

[Shamalien]

I think the best way to remedy this scenario is simply to put the kid up for adoption, and let the mother go through the grief of having to give up her child. Growing up is not about enabling peoples' bad decisions. If you agree to have unprotected sex with someone, you should accept any responsibility that comes from it, and you are responsible to choose a good partner to have kids with, I stand by my words on that. The only situation in which responsibility is abdicated is this particular scenario; the moment she pokes holes in the condom, or the moment a guy pulls his condom off and shoots his load inside, that's the moment it's no longer consensual, and the victim cannot be made to suffer any consequences at that point, that would not be fair. Like you said, you don't know what the punishment should be for the woman, the betrayer, but I feel nature has it figured out. She is left with the kid and the guilt. The poor kid has only his mother to blame. The father can choose to forgive and forget, of course, but it's not fair to obligate him to do so. There cannot be any incentive in place for a person to perform this heinous act; so we cannot say that the mother is entitled to money in this situation; less children will be the brutal victim of this bullshit if we take away the mother's incentive. People respond to incentives; it's just too risky to let this incentive remain.

[White_Widow]

Those bad decisions go both ways. The mother in this case for doing a deceitful act and the father in this case for trusting the wrong person to have sex with and shoving the responsibility of bringing reliable condoms to the girl. Both are still responsible for their actions! And you say that the solution is putting the child up for adoption? So rather no parents at all? instead of (from what you are supposed to be presenting) a decent person for a father? How good of a person are you if one can say, I don't care about my flesh and blood and just let it rot in the system? Doesn't that make the guy in this scenario just as bad as the mother? Especially for someone claiming to be decent? But I suppose, partying, working, trying to create that perfect family and pretty picture is more important than playing the cards you are dealt with. Even if that would mean you'd become a single dad. Sad that the child gets punished for his/her parents actions. And that the father is actually capable of not wanting to step up and take care of his kid.

[Ellenrocks2001]

So a man gives concent to safe sex and then is burden with a child he might not be mentally prepared for, because someone took advantage of him. It's disgusting to me. And that mum chooses that life for her andd the child. That mum should be in prison for rape. It's unfortunate that the child will be put into the system, but potentially ruining a man's life. You say its his fault for trusting her. Switch it around, the woman could get the morning after, or an abortion. Men don't have that right. But should have a say in whether they are atually responsible for the child. Cause the man isn't, he isn't not responsible for that conception cause he avoided it.

[thegirlfromthething]

If she can afford to raise the kid on her own and he’s not interested in playing a fatherly role, she should provide everything herself. If she can’t afford to raise the kid on her own, he should pay what he can afford and get shared custody if he wants it, but after their kid turns 18 she has to pay him back. I know that sounds unfair to the father but the most important person in this scenario is this child who didn’t ask to be born to such irresponsible people. My priority here is making sure the kid has the proper resources, not the parents who got themselves into this situation.

[Shamalien]

when the child looks up and asks "mommy why are we poor?" she can turn around and say "because I betrayed my man" there must be consequences in this world, otherwise we descend into shit, and eventually, we do face consequences. Here's a consequence. Men are dropping out of this whole bullshit scenario as a whole. We are done. Replacement rate is dropping like a fking stone and the kids that are born are out of wedlock nightmares, the kind of shit that is encouraged when you put into place policies like the one you are talking about. It's not always gunna be okay, you're not always gunna be taken care of, if you fuck up, betray your man, and have no money, then you are responsible for the miserable childhood your kid will have, and you can live with that guilt. Hopefully once the kid is 18 they can grow to understand the mistakes of their parent and perhaps even redeem them.

[Shamalien]

and by the way, your priority is not making sure the kid has resources, it's making sure the greedy, lying mom has resources. Whether or not she spends them on the kid is up to her. Would you trust a girl who pokes holes in a condom? I sure as fuck wouldn't trust her with anything

[thegirlfromthething]

People raised in poverty are more likely to commit crimes, have health problems, need government assistance, have substance abuse issues, have mental health issues, drop out of school, and have other problems like that as adults. We do not need more people like that in our society.

[thegirlfromthething]

That’s why the child support should be given in the form of vouchers, like money allotted for one children’s coat or one crib.

[Shamalien]

I agree we dont need more fkd up people, but when someone decides to poke holes in a condom they ensure we get more fkd up people, no amount of child support is gunna change the fact that the kid was born to a dad that never agreed to have him

[hellionthesagereborn]

Well, he shouldn't have to at all and she should be punished for it however in our society legally a woman can do pretty much what ever she wants and the man will always have to pay (hermsman vs seyer stated that no matte the circumstances a male is always obligated to pay child support. In this court case the male was a 12 year old boy who was raped by his babysitter).

[Fiiggy]

You can still be required to pay child support for a child you've proven is not yours in some states. Once your on that birth certificate it's hard to reverse that.
If it's your blood it's your responsibility and we shouldn't raise your child on society's tab. This seems like an obscure problem that can be easily avoided.

[MrOracle]

Why would you, as a guy, knowing you were using condoms, not provide your own? That you purchase and maintain control over? This is an easily avoidable problem.

[devilish-cutie]

I just feel like whenever you have sex with someone you are at risk of pregnancy and you made your willing decision to still have sex. I mean condom can brake. In the situation you mentioned tho, im unsure to pay for what? Abortion? Its ok to split. Pay for the kid? I mean yeah, its your blood and all, you should care about that, regadless of circumstances.

[Shamalien]

If it happens by accident, of course the man must be there for his kid, but if the woman purposefully deceived the man against his will, then it's simply not fair that he pays a dime. Life is about incentives, so there can be no incentive for a woman to do this if we want women to stop doing this./

[devilish-cutie]

I think even if she broke the condoms you still made a willing decision to sleep with her and pregnany should always be as possibility in your mind. Thats why i think people shouldn't have sex with people they are not ready to have kids with if it happens. And i mean how dense you can be, take your own condoms, take care of protection ysf and you have no issues if you think woman you are sleeping with would do such a thing. Most women wouldn't. I just think you fucked her so yeah therefore you should take responsaibility. Its like I tell my guy not to come in me and still he does it so like yeah but i did decide to sleep with him.

[Shamalien]

there's a difference between an accidental pregnancy and one person betraying another, and consenting to sex with a condom is not the same as consenting to sex without a condom

[devilish-cutie]

Of course its not the same and that person tricked you into having a kid but you did consent on sex with that person so u must know that people lie... People dont go to jail for cheating on their partner or lying. to them...

[kymberz]

who on earth would do such a thing? yuhikes! if a woman i knew did that - i'd slap her silly! but there is no chance of that happening - my girlfriends would never do that! that's terrible! ugh. i feel like i need to go and shower or something? just awful! and i feel terrible for any guy who has been through that!

[Shamalien]

now imagine a girl that would argue that the man should be forced to pay for this child. That's who I met 5 mins ago on this app. She called me a cuck for even suggesting that he should not have to pay LOL

[BreakingSound]

Of course not.

In fact, I’d consider that a form of non-consensual sex. Rape, in essence. Same as a guy pulling his condom off.

[devilish-cutie]

He made a concious decision to sleep with her so thats not rape. Its only non consencual of having a kid.

[Ellenrocks2001]

No way. Men have a right to safe, sane and consential sex just like any one else. The big issue here is the proof.

[On_cloud_wine]

If he didn’t know, then yes, he’ll have a price to pay. Maybe he should turn on his red flag detector next time he plays.

[Shamalien]

What? If he didn't know? What does that mean? If he DID know he was having unprotected sex, then of course he would pay. Even if he didn't know and she got preggo by accident, he should still be liable. HOWEVER. If the woman purposefully deceived him into having unprotected sex when he only consented to protected, then there is no argument. He was raped and the idea that he should be held liable for any funds is ludicrous, she should be paying HIM

[On_cloud_wine]

How does anyone but the girl who poked holes in the condom know that that is what really happened? Did she confess? Because that would be silly of her to set herself up like that. If so, then no, I don’t think he should be responsible.

[summiter]

Why would she do that,,,,,, to get pregnant or give you an std?

[Shamalien]

this question is in regards to preggo god I don't even wanna think of the other thing

[summiter]

Glad it was only peggo... did you both still have fun and some great orgasms?

[Shamalien]

dude what r u nuts I would toss this bitch down the stairs, this has not happened to me, I pray it never does

[markscott]

The issue is not about the man or woman, but about the child, and the child's welfare and care. Any time a penis goes in a woman's vagina, there is a chance of pregnancy, and if it happens, for whatever reason, you have the responsibility for supporting the child and being a parent for that child.

[DorkVader]

If there is proof of this, then no. But also, he shouldn't have access to the child either.

[Remarkably_Plain]

First of all for what? For the condom? I... guess so?

Second how do you know or prove she poked a hole in it? It could be a factory defect, and if you watched her do it beforehand why would you use it?

What really is full of holes is this scenario.

[ecfresh]

Pay for? Isn’t sex free? Or do you mean pay a hooker?

[Shamalien]

I mean pay for the ensuing pregnancy

[ecfresh]

Usually insurance pays for the majority of the bills associated with pregnancy

[WhiteShoulder]

Of course. Child support is for the baby, not the mother.

But she is guilty of a crime and a tort. She should go to jail and be sued in civil court as well. Also, there is a very good chance she would be deemed an unfit mother and lose custody to the father or another relative.

[Shamalien]

children don't spend money, irresponsible, guilty parents do. Of course he should pay nothing as he did not consent to having unprotected sex. How you are managing to avoid defining this as rape and still claiming to be an advocate for woman's rights is fucking beyond me, this is the kind of double standard that any decent person would refuse to stand for.

[cicchis0]

I'd be willing to pay for a taxi to take her home so that I never had to see her again.

[ghostqueen]

That's rape and definitely not.

[On_cloud_wine]

Poking holes in a condom is deceitful behavior—not rape. Conceiving someone’s child—not rape. However, forcing sex against someone’s will is rape.

[Twalli]

@On_cloud_wine Thrn why is it called rape if the guy removes the condom during sex without the woman's approval.

[ghostqueen]

@On_cloud_wine The only reason he consents is because of the condom.

[On_cloud_wine]

@Twalli find a girl you trust.

[Twalli]

@On_cloud_wine If she never gets pregnant I trust her. I made sure I will never get any girl pregnant regardless of what she does.

[On_cloud_wine]

@Twalli My friend got preggo on birth control and a condom together; they don’t 100% prevent pregnancy 👍

[Twalli]

@On_cloud_wine I got a vascetomy and that is 100% effective. So I could do it raw the world round and any woman who got pregnant is not having my baby.

[Shamalien]

@On_cloud_wine it's not about whether or not condoms are 100% effective, it's about consent to protected sex vs consent to unprotected sex, two very different things

[On_cloud_wine]

@Twalli thanks for sharing but it had nothing to do with this conversation.

[Twalli]

Precisely if the condom fails that's one thing. If bnb it's made to fail that's another thing entirely

[Twalli]

@On_cloud_wine It sounded like you were saying that even if I wear a condom Il could still get a girl pregnant. In general condoms are successful and inducing one to fail unbeknownst to the other person is a sex act against their will.

[joanofarcher]

I think it is a morally repugnant thing to do and should be a crime. Although I don't think its the same as rape.

[Twalli]

@joanofarcher Would you consider it rape if the guy removes the condom during sex and the woman was unaware.

[joanofarcher]

@Twalli Don't get me wrong, I think that is worse than poking a hole in a condom. But I don't think it should be punishable as rape. Its definitely a sex crime and should be treated accordingly.

[slatyb]

They guy should bring his own condoms. Problem solved.

[Reaperbot666]

This is why if girls have the right to abort a baby. With or without the fathers consent.

Guys should have the right to sign away his right to the baby. Which means no child support for the mother. Or visitation rights for him.

At least until the child is of age and wants to know him.

[Dargil]

No dancing around it. You will never convince Child Protective Services that she did that even if you bring in a punctured condom with your DNA in it. All they care is matching DNA. If it matches, you pay.

[DOGMA1954]

No mater how that hole got there, its your child and its your responsibility to not only support that child, but to be a dad as well.

[AngelLily]

No he shouldn't be forched to pay child support.

[NewZion]

Nope.