To all the people who trust and believe the key/lock analogy for slut shaming, why?

[Hermits-Shell]

So, when i was 14 or so, i asked a question on here. Why do women get called sluts for a body count but men dont. And many people responding with the Key/Lock analogy. But at the time, i was way to young to comprehend and argue why it was wrong... so i went with it. But its really flawed. See the problem with it, is that its used to support slut shamming but I could use this same analogy to support polyamory for women -and strict monogamy for men. See not all keys are master keys, as a matter fact not all master keys can open every lock only certain building or doors but there are still very large restrictions where it won't work. There is no universal keys. Also not all keys are master keys. So, this means that the keys that aren’t master keys have to strictly unlock one lock. However for locks. Some people could be living in the same apartment. So there could be like five or 6 or more keys for these roommates. But if the lock opens for all these keys, it doesn’t mean it’s a shitty lock, its just means there are lot of spare keys. And the lock could keep changing and add more keys. And again, it wouldn’t be a shitty lock, its just that the lock only opens to those certain keys. So pretty much a metaphor for saying, women can fuck as many people as they want as long as they consent. Which of course. And also, master keys are used to unlock tenant doors with out the tenants consent sometimes. So Doesn’t this analogy support rape too? And if the lock gets broke into, was it how the lock was shaped? Was the position it was in make it so easy to break it so easily? Is it the lock fault for being broken into or the person who chose to break in? Why do people still use this dumb analogy? Please provide an actual point on why the double standard is justified.

[Ogopogo]

You don't have to accept the metaphor or like its implications, but men and women are not even close to being similar in biology, and women don't get to decide what men value in a woman. That is for a man to decide on his own, just as you would not like for men to wag their finger at you if you seek something in a mate which they cannot provide or have somehow ruined. If you think I have too many piercings or have been in too many fights, it is quite simply not my business AT ALL how you go about setting and enforcing those standards. You will do what you must do to protect your one body and make the best of the one life you get to enjoy, and it's no one else's place to pressure you away from that.

Most men don't really care who has has their hands on a woman. What we very often do care about is whose sexual fluids and DNA have been inside of her, and this is because eventually we're going to start thinking about growing our children in there. This isn't a matter of superstition. What stays in you, how much, and what exactly is does is unknown, and really it doesn't need to be known with any precision. Just as there are many things I could have done in my life which don't affect you and didn't concern you, but which might drive you away on a visceral level anyway, there are things you could do which would drive me away on a visceral level. One would be letting another man's semen into the organ where in the long run I might wish to grow my child. On a less visceral level, giving a bunch of men access to the inside of your body tells me you don't take your reproductive health very seriously. Sure, I could be dead wrong about that, and likewise you could be dead wrong about my time in jail and my baby mama's restraining order against me. Neither is fair, but this isn't a game. Life is short, and the strategies we use to ensure we don't waste vast swaths of it are unfair by their nature.

[PeterPumpkin]

1. I read all the comments. Why do idiots admit to not reading the entire post before answering? Are they just lonely attention whores that feel the need to say something, no matter how stupid it makes them look? LOL

2. The original anology is borderline retarded. It's true that society praises promiscous men, but not promiscous women. Men are studs, and women are sluts. That's slowly changing, but it will probably take another 200 years to reach an equilibrium. Comparing that to a "master" key and locks, is just beyond stupid.

3. I think your twist on the dumb analogy, is brilliant. You bringing in the concept of polyamory vs monogamy, is perfect.
For my twist on your twist, I'm going to use, membrerships to clubs.

Clubs = women/locks

How special would a man have to be to obtain a membrership to the YMCA? A goat could probably gain access, if it had the money.

But compare that to a very exclusive country club. (polyamory) Money alone doesn't cut it. You have to apply and go through a rigorous vetting process. If you make it to the next level, you're probably going to have to sit in front of a panel and answer questions.

So all of those perstigious janitors out there with master keys are going to just have to wait outside.
The ONLY access to the elite club, is via a specially issued key that was given to you by the club owner. She (the club owner) may have only issued one key, or she may have issued many keys to her "club."

4. To all those idiots that think the retarded key/lock analogy is about how easy it is for women to get laid, VS how hard it is for guys to get laid, then they've really missed the boat. The analogy is a weak attempt to justify slut shaming.

[SandyStormy]

I agree, it really is a dumb saying.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yes exactly. And your analogy was pretty good about clubs and its members. I dont understand how people think im the stupid one when i point out its an excuse for slut shamming. Forgetting that part of the analogy is literally calling the lock ‘shitty’ for opening for the keys.

[PeterPumpkin]

Deep down they know you're not the stupid one, but the truth hurts. It's really hard to imagine that such a flawed anaology ever caught on, but it did. Another stupid concept that guys and girls like to talk about & cling to, is that sluttly girls are having fun in the short-term, but no guy would ever want them in the long-term. (I guess that means that slutty girls will never get married.) If that's true, then how do they explain all the female porn stars that are married? The woman who holds the world gangbang record, is married to a New York fireman. I agree 100% that girls have a much easier time getting laid than guys. But who created that reallity? Guys created that reality! Guys are their own worst enemy. Girls don't have to pay for drinks in the bar, because they know that stupid guys will pay. So why are the guys continuing to be stupid? I don't blame girls for not bringing money to the bar, because if I were a girl, I'd do the same thing. Let the simps pay for my drinks. But if I hookup that night with a guy, it sure as fuck won't be with one of the simps that bought the drinks for me. Guys KNOW this, and they still continue to be simps! So when all the simps go home alone at night to lick their wounds, they come up with stupid analogies about keys and locks. Good for them. What a feather in their pointy caps.

[Hermits-Shell]

Exactly. Blaming the woman because of your own stupidity. Its a dumb mindset.

[PeterPumpkin]

Since the dawn of mankind, women have appeared to be holding all the cards when it comes to sex. But why is that? I read a fascinating article written by an anthropologist. He said that back in the caveman/person days, the females only allowed sex when they were "in heat." The downside of being in heat, was that the cave-lady was not going to be getting any sleep at night, because the line of cavemen waiting in line, was just too long. Ah... but was there a plus side to being in heat? Yep. A cave-lady in heat was assured protection from all the crazy critters of the time. The velociraptors could easily swipe up Sally or Sandy, and the cave-fellas could care less. But I pitty the fool velociraptor that tried to intterup Jane's gangbang! So sex (for females) = protection and security. Fast forward to today, and that still holds true. (to some extent) But the modern caveman doesn't have to have brawn and a big club, he could now be a nerd pulling down 6 figures at Microsoft. But at anytime in history, men could have changed this, but they prefered to just whine about it.

[Bee-Hatch]

Going to be blunt.

TLDNR - once I read how not all keys are master keys the second time I gave up.

Key and lock? Not heard of that so can't really comment. Maybe open with that for context.

As for slut shaming, it's wrong and some of the worst people who perpetuate that nonsense are women. They are the type who think God is awfully super and like to think their vaginas are mythical places where only those worthy get to visit. Meanwhile women those who just enjoy sex are somehow inferior and should be shamed for it.

While funnily enough men are supposed to be highly experienced, it is after all a sign of their manliness. In that scenario the maths doesn't add up.

The reality is it's a way for a few fucked up people to feel superior about themselves by trying to make others feel bad about themselves.

If you enjoy sex and you like someone that way, go get some.

[Hermits-Shell]

I was talking about the analogy that goes like this. If a key can open any lock its a master key but if a lock opens to any key, its a shitty key. Also what do you mean the second time you gave up. You read it but didn’t understand it?

[Bee-Hatch]

Well that's dumb as fuck. If an analogy fits what you choose to believe but makes no fucking sense - it's a shitty analogy.

[Bee-Hatch]

You used tge same phrase twice and it just doesn't read easily. So I gave up

[Hermits-Shell]

Oh im sorry. I have trouble explaining what i mean and expressing what i mean appropriately. I was just saying the analogy does work because not all keys are master keys. That means according to this analogy, unlucky men have to strictly have sex with one person while women can have sex with who ever they want because they consent to spare keys.

[Bee-Hatch]

It's fucking dumb nonsense for simpletons. The implications there that men are the keys and women are the locks who need opening. All very phallic. I'm sure it makes sense to hyper Christian teenage boys. But the world never works like that. It also ignores what happens when two men have sex, who is the slut in that arrangement? And the same with two women are they both virtuous if they just touch each other and no "lock" gets opened? Slut shaming only happens to make the person doing the shaming feel better about their place in the world. What should be happening is those doing the shaming be held up as the massive twats they are gor all the world to see.

[Hermits-Shell]

I never thought of it like that, I completely forgot about gay people. The analogy is pretty dumb.

[Duckysback]

Yeah, not going to read that giant wall of text. But generally people are idiots who doesn't understand sexuality or human behavior very well so they come up with bullshit justifications for their own unjustified sense of superiority.

[Hermits-Shell]

All did was debunk the analogy so if you already agree, you shouldn’t really have to read it.

[Duckysback]

That's the thing, people who think that a human body is a finite resorse that can be used up aren't going to listen to logical reasoning in the first place.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yeah i know. I just had an argument with one of those people

[Duckysback]

I've done it too. It's impossible to use logic in an argument with someone who doesn't comprehend the concept of critical thinking in the first place.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yep. I need learn to stop arguing with brainlets.

[Duckysback]

When someone says something stupid to me I have just started using the "I don't want to see this" feature on here. It's even better when they get pissed off and start throwing insults so I can hide what they say, perks of being a mod.

[Hermits-Shell]

Lol. What I usually do is keep arguing with them until they get annoyed and stop responding or block me. The one problem is some people have the same mindset because I argued with someone on reddit for 3 day straight and i think its still going.

[Duckysback]

Yeah, I have better shit to do than waste my time on idiots. Shame my question about them was taken down for being offensive lol.

[Hermits-Shell]

Lol. And those people usually call YOU sensitive if you disagree

[Duckysback]

Right, like I said can't use logic on them... Even had a few people post on my question saying it offended them because they fit my discretion. My response "well, I guess that makes you an idiot then doesn't it?" So yeah... Not surprised it was taken down.

[Hermits-Shell]

Lol. They quiver at the slightest amount of criticism. These people live there entire life around dogma, thats why there so sensitive.

[Duckysback]

I have read (multiple now) scientific journals on atrophy in the parts of the brain used for critical thinking in person like that. Basically when they spend their whole lives being told not to ask questions and have faith and that something is a certain way and you can't question it their brain gets to they point where it is physically incapable questioning what they have been told when receiving new ideas. The only worse than cognitive dissonance is not even bothering because you are too lazy or don't know how.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yeah. I was the same way with christianity but i got my ass whooped if i asked a question so it was only naturally for me to stray away from it. There was also a study they showed when the people around them had a certain state of mind, people tend to conform because they feel uncomfortable challenging it.

[Duckysback]

Yup, all the more reason to drop that shit all together.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yeah. There is no purpose. Im going to stop this argument im having right now because of this conversation. Thank you for the closure and the insight. I was getting closer and closer for wanting to end it from peoples stupidity.(thats ironic by the way)

[Berethor]

Nice try but the analogy is good, women are the gatekeepers of sex and sluts are shitty locks.

[R4vedave]

People slut shame and judge because it makes them feel morally superior, which boosts their own fragile egos.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yeah that’s definitely true in certain situation.

[Gopnik]

really what it comes down to is that i don't fucking care about your body count it's the way you gained that body count that makes you a slut.
some girls tend to just get into bed with the snap of a finger and others just don't do that.
the same goes for men but that doesn't bother me at all since i'm not gay and nor does a girls body count really bother me.

[Hermits-Shell]

Ok thats fine. That’s understandable. People should be careful to who they have sex with, so i agree.

[VictorBhere]

Personally I think it's because men are viewed as expendable and no one cares if they're sluts or not. Society is geocentric women have a uterus that can make new members of society and keep it going so they're protected and held to a high standard. That's my guess anyway.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yeah that’s definitely the reason but doesn’t make it right though

[VictorBhere]

One can not derive an aught from an is. If any of these things are to ever change it will take a long time and much experimentation. Nature has laws for everything it would need to be done at a genetic level with a lot of study and hard work not by playing pretend that things are other than they are. And if we mess up, we face extinction.

[Hermits-Shell]

I don’t understand what your saying because i don’t understand how genetics got into this. Please explain

[VictorBhere]

We are the way we are because it's in our genes. We are not a blank slate, the way men and women are , and the trends we see in human societies are largely genetic. Fundamental things like interactions between the sexes can not be changed by any other means than actual genetic alteration of the species.

[Hermits-Shell]

I don’t think you understand how genes work. Everything is a product or culture, the way men and women treat each other here is significantly different from other places. How we interact with each other is completely influenced by environment and how we respond is a product of biology. Could you give me examples of the certain things that are influenced by biology and not environment.

[VictorBhere]

Look at the underlying themes. It's like Jordan Peterson says about social hierarchy and lobsters. Culture can influence to a point but the basic structure is always going to be the same.

[Hermits-Shell]

Oh thats why your like this because you like Jordan Peterson. Jordan lacks understanding of social influence and ignored history and other countries. Everything today is the product of media, advertisement, and the people were around. We dont need a genetic change because there is no gene to want to treat people like shit and think you are superior to others. Its just an attempt that humans do to adapt to world around it as it changes rapidly.

[VictorBhere]

Jordan Peterson only informs part of my beliefs, I like what he says about evolution and social structures. He is a trained psychologist with not only a Phd but he has years of practicing psychology. You are right about not treating people like shit though, that comes from poverty , ignorance, desperation and of course defect in some cases. Although, the part about holding women to different standards then men is not rooted in cruelty or indifference but in instinct. Culture can only do so much to change that. You can find all sorts of perverted cultures that try and bend nature but they all pay a price. Fundamental facts don't change, men and women are different. There is no denying that women are smaller then men on average and men are generally stronger. Men are the soldiers, workers and administrators in human societies and women tend the home and raise children. A culture can only mute what nature made but it can not change it. To do that you need genetic engineering. As to Peterson he would never approve of my belief in genetic engineering to create an improved human race. He would not approve of my ideas about ethnic nationalism either, he would be disgusted and outraged just like any other civic nationalist classic liberal I've seen him rant about it. You can not blame Peterson for me thinking as I do because he does not have the same beliefs.

[Hermits-Shell]

Jordan Petterson is a psychologist, specifically a clinal psychologist which means he treats mental disorders. He isn't a neuroscientist or biologist. So his phd means nothing. People do find differences in other but we treat others different because the divide that is socially constructed. I can be friends with someone of different biology from me, judt because your different biologically doesn't mean you can coexist equally. I understand your mindset because its a understandable conclusion but its flawed. We treat other different not because if biology because we can't see biology, we treat people differently based in how we are raised and how we respond to that environment. Im not really sure about that poverty thing, i should do more research but i know it definitely causes criminal behaviors because from the lack of economic standing.

[VictorBhere]

Only some of human behavior is attributable to acculturation. The fundamental framework that makes us , us is based in DNA. Relations between the sexes will not change unless something were done on a genetic level. You can not change anything by manipulating a culture, it can no be done.

[Hermits-Shell]

Do you understand how brain development works? Have you studied why we treat people certain ways and do certain things? I honestly think you just lack certain amount information about the human psychy and basing that just off of watching jordan petterson and then forming, which are logical conclusions because the way we act IS particularly influenced by biology, an opinion that you can comprehend. Biology is complicated and i don’t think you realize how complex the brain is, because its a-lot more difficult than that.

[VictorBhere]

As much as most laymen know and more than a lot. I've always read articles and watched videos on those kind of subjects. Regardless, human beings have a nature , the interactions between the sexes are rooted in biology, not in culture and we can not change that except on some physical level.

[Hermits-Shell]

You keep repeating that but what are you basing this off of? Humans react or conform to certain environmental beliefs based ON how there biology constructed. But its what we conform to is environmental. Another thing is true is that we are biologically programmed to murder and rape aswell, but see how most people dont do these things. We change and adapt overtime and evolution is still happening my guy, it doesn't stop.

[VictorBhere]

Evolution is in a state of flux but we don't know where that will go. This is why I think we should be getting into our DNA and creating something better. As to the sexes just look at male and female morphology, how men and women are built, even our bodies are constructed for gender roles.

[Hermits-Shell]

This had been one of those most calming conversation i’ve had with someone I heavily disagree with but we shouldn’t keep arguing with each other and we aren’t going to change each other minds. Were both repeating the same things but in different ways so its best to end the conversation here because if it keeps going it will become insanity. But thank you on the new point of view about how others think but Again its best to stop arguing.

[AD240pCharlie]

While I think the key/lock analogy is dumb and I don't agree with it, I get where they're coming from. In general, it's much easier for women to find sexual partners than it is for men.
The problem with that is that the blame is on men having such low standards for women. Have some pride in yourself and don't just fuck anyone who's willing! Both men and women!

[Hermits-Shell]

Thank you for your response. I completely agree, the blame shouldn’t be on the woman or on anyone. We should let people be happy.

[JamesBlackDragon]

Tell them think of it this way a door that only opens when it want to open vs a key that can only open doors that want to be opened that would pretty much make the key useless if the door doesn't want to be opened

[Hermits-Shell]

Thank you. See the logic in the key/lock analogy because they dont how keys and locks work

[JamesBlackDragon]

No problem also it's not really justified its only justified by those who think it's justified

[Hermits-Shell]

Yeah. Their mindset is clearly flawed if they use this analogy. Thank you for the response

[JamesBlackDragon]

No problem

[Romeocuck]

women should be with as much and as many men they want just like guys and guys need to accept it. you are not a slut ( unless you like it as a compliment ) you are a powerful woman do it enjoy your passion

[Gopnik]

reeks of soy

[Hermits-Shell]

He’s just being nice, leave him alone.

[Gopnik]

i know, i was just joking because usually guys who say such a thing as a powerful woman are the type of guys you'd call "nice guys"

[Hermits-Shell]

Oh yeah that is true. But you can't be sure.

[Romeocuck]

@Gopnik I'm both hehe nice and bad guy depends on my mood

[Anonymous]

Sorry, too much text in one giant paragraph so I stopped a few sentences in after reading the master key silliness.

Look, the point of the analogy is that it's very easy for almost any woman to get laid, but the same is not at all true for men. It's an accurate and valid analogy, which is why it is so often quoted.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yeah but if the comparison is invalid. It implies that women are somehow ‘ruined’ and they have sex with a second person. Please read the rest. Just because something easy for someone doesn’t mean they should be shamed. Should a piano player be shamed because their better at playing the piano than other? Please provide a valid reason for slut shaming.

[Opinion Owner]

No, it doesn't imply women are somehow ‘ruined’ . That's not the point of the analogy at all. It's not about shaming women but rather about why men who are able to have sex with a lot of women are more respected. And that's is of course because it's a much more challenging thing for a man to do than a woman. I'm not here to argue whether slut shaming is appropriate, only to point out the validity of the analogy in question, which I don't think you understand.

[Hermits-Shell]

One the phrasings is that “if a lock opens to any key, Its a SHITTY lock” which implies they are shitty for fucking over 2 of more men. I completely understand what its trying to justify but im point out how the analogy is dumb. Because if all keys are master keys, then lock kind of has to open because “all keys are master keys” in this world. You have fo assume in the second part of the analogy that all keys aren’t master keys anymore. Make it make sense.

[Opinion Owner]

Sorry but the whole master key thing is ridiculous. It's a childish attempt to discredit a valid argument. I understand you motivation but try to find a more rational way to do it.

[Hermits-Shell]

But your not explaining your argument. Im being rational, it would be irrational to accept the argument and blindly agree with it. Its very apparent that you don’t see what i mean about it being dumb because an inability to change your mind and be nuanced. Its analogy thats good in the moment but a little more thinking and it’s dumb.

[Opinion Owner]

I do see what you are attempting to do here, it's just a silly argument because it clearly shows you miss the point of the analogy and/or are grasping for anything to try to discredit it. Again, here are the facts... It is obviously very easy for almost any woman to get laid. It's is MUCH more difficult for most guys to get laid. As a result, guys who are able to have sex with many women obviously have qualities that make them very desirable to women and/or significant skills in seducing women, and therefore warrant a lot more respect than a woman who sleeps with a similar number of men. Your master key silliness makes zero sense in attempting to discredit that argument. That's the bottom line. You seem intelligent enough to understand that so my guess is it's just an immaturity issue. I have little doubt this will all dawn on you at some point over the next few years. But in the meantime I'm not going to waste any more time knocking on the door to an empty room. I'm putting this topic on ignore. Buh bye.

[Hermits-Shell]

Lol. And you called me irrational. Im not grasping at straws just showing how its dumb. And wouldn’t be the man fault for low standards. The analogy was clearly made for slut shaming. Thats all I got to say.

[Anonymous]

Nobody wants a used car. And if you get one you want the one with the lowest mileage.
Woman play life on easy mode. At least for the last 30 years in the western world.
Nobody respect people who play one easy mode

[Hermits-Shell]

I dont understand what your prefering to as easy mode but how come men can’t be used cars aswell? Women face discrimination and constant threats of sexual harassment. They have to be careful walking home at night, and more likely to be raped. And also not likely be taken seriously in the workplace and if they ask for a promotion are more likely to get punished for asking. In what situation do women have it easier? I could name other stuff where women dont.

[Opinion Owner]

Men face the same struggle as you do. Men are seen as a rapist and never believed because so. A man walking home is more likely to be robbed or attacked.

[Hermits-Shell]

Yes exactly you do. Even though is less likely, you still do. Men are less likely to experience sexism when it comes to job. Men are more likely to get robbed but if were being honest here, that not as bad as being raped or kidnapped. But men go through problems but why down play women’s problem and say we dont have any. . Also why bring up robbing when you could up brought up the sexual assault the men face.

[Opinion Owner]

Being robbed often might means getting beat up. Being raped ain't that bad just suck a dick and think of something else it's just a penis. You use dildo all the time. Not like your life is in danger

[Hermits-Shell]

Yeah but a dildo you do it with my consent. And a lot people get trauma from being raped. My friend was almost raped when he was a kid and he definitely wasn't just going to suck a dick. Also rape is brutal, this choke and strangle you and some cases break your bones. I would rather get beat the fuck up and raped (usually brutal mind you). Would you rather get raped or robbed? Both are violent by the way.

[Anonymous]

It took you 3 years to come up with this?

Why you fighting it, if do not understand it?

[Hermits-Shell]

It didn't take me 3 years. I just remembered it now but didn't have the intelligence back then to figure why the analogy was so dumb.

[Opinion Owner]

It sounds like now you still try to fight it. Most of them are dumb and they were created by dumb people, so what do you expect? Just do what you think is good for you and forget rest, as long as it is legal and not damaging you in any way.

[Hermits-Shell]

Lol. No. I watched a video that brought up the analogy then I remembered it from 3 years ago. So i just wanted to quickly debunk the analogy because its dumb. I just like debunking things and im deep into politics.

[Opinion Owner]

Did you know that politics these days are BS too? They all are Muppets to who is paying them to be there and do whatever is needed to stay in power to push through their agenda and there is nothing about people who elected them in to power...

[Hermits-Shell]

Oh believe me i fucking know. These easily bribed fucking status quo politician. But i like discussing other issues and gathering a nuanced position. Feminist issues for men and women. Racial issues. Economic issues. Cultural issues and media. Stuff like that.