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it's just that here, were more free to live our life the way we want
@swettannie but we have a more religion and honour oriented culture
"honor". Don't make laugh
@swettannie we use "namus "it just means keeping your virginity until marriage and it's very important for us the word honour may not be corresponding lexically I dknt know
Your "honor" is just a way to control women. There is absolutely no shame for a woman to enjoy her life and to have sex before any engagement
@swettannie obvious irreligious feminist you are not just women it's important for men as well here we have different cultures Eastern culture is just more spiritual you can't understand us from western atheist deist and whatever point of view
such a easy response...
@swettannie what do you expectIf I were American I would be differentI can't integrate into your materialist individualist feminist irreligious cultureit's all cultural I know you have a lot of good people there
No offensebut that is pretty ignorantHow is it an "honor" based culturewhen most of the Eastern World ranks among the most corrupt nations on the planet?with constant conflict.. host to the majority of the modern eras ethnic/religious conflict... and even certain cultures in the "honorable" world that practice things like "bacha bazi" (Which is little boy play in Afghanistan)and as she kindly pointed outa lot of practices that demonize/brutalize women ^ and honestly most of the more "open" cultures (think Kurds, or even arguably the current Afghan Government) where Women are allowed to take part in the nations decisions.. and hold positions similar to men... are more western aligned todaywhile much of that part of the world has difficulty even allowing women to drive.. or take public officeim sorrybut your statements are just ignorant
@Stormsies you're highlighting the culture more without knowing "namus" is just about keeping virginity and I don't if it corresponds into English exactly. I was talking about sexual things not politics or government.
I think you misunderstandthat Culture and Religion combineand in the case of your part of the world... Culture/Religion/Government.. are often the same thingIt is often the Religious leaders that make the policy decisions You are attempting to have the argument both wayswhere you want to create a "Perfect" example of your world... where the fact is.. MOST... dont even practice that wayYou attempt to label your people are religious and honor boundbut won't even discuss the policies (based upon religion) that are made that consistently go against your claims...you can't have it both ways
@swettannie @jfryh everything revolves around your religion, culture but mostly time.Some indians girls cannot show their elbows but at the time hindu temples were constructed, the goddesses were depicted nude but over time it has become taboo. In the ancient Greek times it was normal and even expected to be gay or bi but with the arrival of Christianity, it became bad and wrong.The list goes on but my point is that things and beliefs can change drastically over time.
@Stormsies I just think western culture is more open about sex. when it comes to ruling you are better because you have democracy open government and seperation of powers like judiciary etc.. the power of your government is highly limited by judiciary and check balance
Naturally we are "better" at rulingI mean the Afghan Government is one of the better examples of "Democracy" in world in the Muslim worldand its a very very poor example (its a corrupt government.. has clear inabilities of completely handling its own security... and its clear they struggle with counting votes) Hopefully the Peace Agreement pans out, but it doesn't seem like the Insurgents are very open to the idea... and likely there will be many more years of war to come^ that is something you dont see often in the Western World anymorebut yes on the terms of sexuality you could argue the West is more "Open" (though once again you also have regressive subcultures in the West... the USA is host of groups that are both extremely OPEN about sex.. and those who hold sex in a more "traditional" way) but posting a question like "are western women sluttier than eastern women"is a very poor way of askingSlut = a very Negative statementFor many in the Westits about Freedom of Choice... the ability to be who you want... in this case of women, its about their choices to handle their own body.. and their own sexual desires.. instead of being handled by menusing the term slutalways gives your questions implications that are very negative (and you dont want... because people will assume you are asking something you dont mean to ask).
and you must further understand the influence of Government on sexualityin the United States, it wasn't long ago when certain sexual acts were crimesand when women had limitations of what they could practicein the "East" (Muslim world, as I assume we are speaking) the Government still puts limits on those practices, and depending on the government itself. the discipline can be horrible (perhaps death) Its not that women in the east dont want sexor that gay people dont exist in muslim countriesits that the governing bodies of those nations make it difficult for people to practiceEVEN TODAYin the Westbecause of certain stigmaspeople are not always open about discussing their sexual needs.. or desires... because of what backlash might come with itits not that they dont have itbut that they dont discuss it
Feel free to message me if youd like to talk more about it :)its easier that way
@Stormsies but here we call it honour like success when you keep it until marriage you're opinion on ruling better is arguable you have more homeless , drug addicts , empowered women and emasculated men , less family values , lobbies , oligarchy
See, I am not even certain that is trueOne of the issues with the Eastern Worldis that they dont even keep track of their own crimes rates... their homelessness... Largely due to how Media is run :PMost Media outlets in the Eastern World are owned by the Government (meaning they made to service the Governments agenda)while in the West, most Media is privately owned (But Yes, bias exists.. because they usually service more upon Political/Agenda lines... take the USA for example.. Fox News is notoriously Right Wing/Conservative/Republican... MSNBC is notoriously Left Wing/Liberal/Democrat)In terms of almost everything youve listedI am unsure where you get the idea (and Trust me. as an American.. I know my country is VERY BAD by Western standards)You live in a part of the world, where MANY MANY people live on less than $5 a day (Which is less than the Minimum Wage per hour in the USA) In terms of the Poverty Rate, there are many nations in your region where 50%+ of the Nation is under its own nationally defined Poverty Rate ... Turkey itself (which is in a far better position than most of the "Muslim World") has a Poverty rate that is more than 2 times the USA?Drug Addiction? by what standards?empowered women? because thats terribleor "emasculated men" by what standards? o. OLess Family Values? by what measure?Lobbies? Oligarchies? coming from someone from the Oil rich region of the world? Where the separation between poor and rich is EXTREME. (even by American standards.. which have been getting worse year by year)I think if you actually looked into the statistics... youd realize how far behind the Muslim World is
haha your statement on "Your argument on better ruling is arguable"you do realizeYOU made the statement the West is better at rulingI was merely agreeing with you and giving you examples haha
@Stormsies America is famous about its obesity and homelessness My friend has been to Us by work and travel and he confirms that there is more homelessness and he also said doing drugs is common in americaI think it's because you are the most individualist culture easternerd are more collectivist and care more about their familyI dont claim that we are better we have just good and bad sides like West I would my government to be more open transparent and limited by check balance like western democracies this is what I am envious of the most
I think what you are attempting to do is take the VERY VERY WORST (and obvious problems) of the West^ which have been reported over and over again.. studied time and time againNo one denies those problems existthen make some half assed remarks about issues.. im not entirely sure you are very well studied in?add in a little religious nonsense.. or elitist claims (that have no foundation in reality)and think youve actually created a legitimate argumentwhen the statistics simply dont agree with youThe Fact is.. YES.. the West is NOT perfectbut attempting to create some argument between how the "Muslim World" and the West is run... isn't really going to help you at allyoud have to play a lot of mental gymnastics to create any sort of artificial logic from those arguments.
@Stormsies I am not very vell studied but not ignorant either I know a lot than most other Turks or easterners and I am trying to be objective but you're like you are getting offended by negayive aspects
Sure, Obesity exists in the USAIF you were MORBIDLY curiousthe Obesity Rate (according ProCon) in the USA is 36.2%but its also 37.9% in Kuwait 35.5% in Jordan35.4% in Saudi Arabia35.1% in Qatar33.7% in Lebanon32.5% in Libya32.1% in TurkeyBarely a differenceObesity is a GLOBAL issueif we take Homelessness or Drug Abuse Ratesits nearly impossible to get statistics on the Muslim World.. because 1. Those nations do not allow outside organizations to run statistical studies.. and 2. Those nations either 1. Dont care about these individuals (which is obvious by their lack of studies, or emphasis on doing anything about it) or 2. They have an image to keep.. so a lot of things are simply ignoredso there are no conclusive studies on Homelessness or Drug Abuse in nations like TurkeyBUT for a nation with a FAR HIGHER poverty rate (according to World Bank... 13% of people in Turkey live on less than $5 a day and a Poverty Rate twice as high as the USA)... its likely that a far higher percentage of Turkish Citizens are Homeless than American Citizens (and as I stated before.. the USA is often ranked among the worst of Western nations in many categories).You should instead be concerned with the fact the Turkish government cares little to even be transparent to allow such studies/statistics to be released.If we are speaking about Homelessness in the USAusually somewhere around.02% of Americans are Homeless 32.0% in in Egypt
I am not offendedI am merely countering your positionsSimply because I am holding an opposite positionand providing you with informationdoes not mean I am offended.I am merely showing why I think your positions are misguided and grounded in ignorance
@Stormsies I study English language and literature I like your open government creativity videogames etc...since I'm an English literature student these are my field of study I only dislike your extreme individualism to the point of weakened family values that's all thank you
So what I am trying to point out is thisI think many of the arguments you are making (which I've heard over and over again) are not only misguided and grounded in ignorance (the statistics dont agree with you, and many governments in that region lack transparency, and often ignore problems the negatively impact the image they want to push)but in some ways are an attempt (by whoever their creators are) to make their own negative circumstances appear better (or in some cases.. to explain away their problems)OR in some cases simply to push an agenda that is based upon demonizing others (Which feels to be the basis of this question)
That is great and I appreciate that!However, you keep pushing this idea that "Family Values" are collapsing in the West.. implying that Westerners are sexual creatures who care more about the pleasure of the flesh.. than the pleasure of the connectionWhile coming from a region where many many children are forced into positions... that dont really seem to resemble good "family values" where men make choices that brutalize women and children (either through laws.. or through war...)where MANY children grow up without parents because of the obsession of faith based conflict (Imagine the children who grew up without fathers or mothers.. because of groups like ISIS... who seemed to believe they were practicing the perfect faith as well)Yesthe West has its strugglesbut please stop attempting to make comparisonsbecause though we DO HAVE ISSUESits not a comparison at all...What you are simply doing is taking the Religious perspectives of Islam (the Positive ones, the ones on Family Values).. attempting to attribute it to a region of the world that has suffered from nothing but chaos for centuries... while comparing it to other region of the world that has a different system..Comparing the negative aspects of that system (that we see in practice)with the Idealized aspects of a Faith based system (that we do not see in practice)its a terrible comparison.For Christians in the US will do the exact same thing you are doing now.
I was reading through my statements againI noticed I stated Homelessness was.02% in the USA 32% in Egypt (instead that Egypt number should be with the Poverty rate numbers above.. not sure how it got down there.. I must have moved my cursor or something)
But anyways"Thats all thank you"ill take that as you are finished talking with meI enjoyed our conversationI hope I was able to share some knowledge with youfeel free to message me anytime youd like to discusssee ya man! :)
@Stormsies English language and literature is a good major here but it's not that good in Us Do I have job prospects there or a chance to get a work permit? Do you know?
I can't really speak to that for its not what I studied. and I know the Trump Administration is a bit more Draconian in its rules in terms of Foreigners.
@Stormsies What do you study by the way?Is there a good place in west for English literature ? Our ruling party sucks now I lost my mom 8 months agoI have so many issues I just need another place or a new beginning
I am sorry for your loss :(Social Science. emphasis on History (my major technically)minor in Sociologyas for literature. I am not really surenever really been anything I looked into
@Stormsies thank you How much is the cost for a year?
haha for me$40k
What makes them slutty in your opinion? Can't people have certain morals while being accepting of other's?
@Charlie_Kidd you're asking me what I define as a slut? To answer the latter question, it probably isn't that common
Yes, could you please define a slut in your opinion?
@Charlie_Kidd someone that sleeps with a lot of people, male or female. I know the term slut isn't usually used for males but it's disgusting for males and females
but there is no one night stands in turkey and it's not easy to find a virgin after 20 in west while in east its easy
There are plenty in Turkey, it's all just a lot more hush hush
It's not advertised or talked about, but it happens. The culture suppresses being open or talking about it