Am I wrong for my fiancé turning me down for Sex in this scenario?

[Coolflow9]

Obviously in the early stages of most relationships having sex is a pretty consistent thing. It was for my fiancé and then we settled down like a normal couple and have sex about every other night. No complaints on my end at all. If she’s tired from work or just not in the mood then I normally do t initiate things. However, sex means a lot emotionally in a loving relationship for me and the only time I’ve gotten a little upset was when she turned me down the night before she was going out of town for a few days. We talked it over and she said next time she would make it a point to try and connect before she leaves. Well... 3 months later and she turned me down again the night before leaving and this time I got a little upset because I feel like she doesn’t care. Out of our entire relationship I’ve never ONCE turned her down because I always want to make the effort for her, but she has turned me down several times mostly because she claims that she is tired or just not in the mood. I respect that occasionally girls may not be in the mood, but is it so much to ask to make the effort before leaving for a few days?

Do I have a legitimate reason to be upset here?

[On_the_other_hand]

You sure she isn't cheating? Just asking, not telling for sure.

[Coolflow9]

Yeah I’m positive about that one. We live together and have extremely consistent routines. For peace of mind and safety reasons we have our locations enabled on our phones as well so, there’s no chance of being somewhere we’re not supposed to haha. Might be too constricting for some people in a relationship, but it’s not an issue for us.

[MannMitAntworten]

Trust me... that tracker is not a tell all. It can be spoofed. Heck, she can merely leave it and have her calls and text forwarded if you didn’t know what to listen for when calling. A change in behavior is always a “tell”.

[Coolflow9]

@MannMitAntworten I know what you’re saying man, but I could bet my life’s savings on the fact that she’s not cheating. We are engaged, she lives in MY house and we are planning a wedding. Just having some general relationship issues that will work itself out over time.

[On_the_other_hand]

I'm just saying. She could be exactly where you think she is, but someone is there too. Please I don't mean put any suspicions in your head. Its just odd she wouldn't take care of your needs when she leaves for days. I know girls who would be upset if they didn't get sex if their guy was leaving for days. And more than once. There are many reasons why this might happen. I'm just trying to check that box and eliminate it as a possibility. Odds are she isn't up to anything, but you have to start eliminating reasons by checking. Everyone has the right to turn down sex, but is it worth it if you deflate your loved ones spirits... especially after it has been addressed before. Anyone can skip sex and anyone can also become unhappy and move on. She by now needs to know this is an important issue for you and now its up to her to decide if your feelings and desire are worth maintaining harmony in the relationship. And it is wondering what life will settle into after the marriage.

[Coolflow9]

I know what you mean, but are routines are very consistent and we spend so much time together that there is nearly no way she could get away with cheating. We give each other the peace of mind to let each other know where we are going, when we leave/arrive to destinations and that has never changed, so I trust her with everything I have. Now about the rest of your response... our course of action has changed and I told her I would respect occasionally when she is not in the mood, but that I’m going to start initiating a lot more. So she has the freedom to decline, but I also have the freedom to be spontaneous and initiate when I’m in the mood. Then after some time we will see if there’s balance or an uneven pattern tipping towards her schedule.

[On_the_other_hand]

That is cool that she is loyal. by the way it told my girlfriend, only what you said, and she thought cheating too. But only you know. Anyhow, it is odd that a fiancé would dampen your spirits, twice. Its up to both of you to find the harmony, but this is marriage. Some couples are happy with little sex, others need a lot. You just have to consider sharing the rest of your life with someone who is compatible, you have to be selfish for both of your sakes. This may be a small thing in the big picture but a lot of that depends on you... and her.

[Coolflow9]

Yeah I’m sure given only the info I’ve given I can see how someone would think that she may be cheating, but it’s just not in the cards. We are sexually active on average every other day and sometimes daily on the weekends. When we started out dating it was a daily affair from the very beginning for the first 4-5 months, so there was no talk about what we expected in our sex lives because everything was perfect. Then after that morning sex became difficult for her at least not until after coffee since she is not a morning person, so I respected that. She did apologize today for not handling the situation correctly last night and admitted she didn’t think about our last conversation when this same thing happened.

[On_the_other_hand]

Just and fyi. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, and I may very well be but I don't want anyone to be played either. So again I hope I'm wrong... Perhaps I'm reading too many Reddit stories, so my mind, and my girlfriend's goes to cheating. Lets say for arguments sake she is cheating, this is the scenario I would be thinking of... 1. She isn't cheating on you when she is home. 2. She is meeting up with someone when she goes out of town, possibly for work and meeting them there. 3. She isn't having sex the day before to stay fresh 4. She says she's tired to avoid having sex.(this is a common excuse to turn down sex) Again. I don't know you and I don't know her and I'm sure some people turn down sex in your situation who aren't cheating. But is she was cheating with someone she rendezvous with that scenario would make perfect sense. I don't want to fuck up your life or ruin your marriage or have you accuse her of something she isn't doing... but I think I would be remiss if I didn't mention what is going through my mind. My girlfriend isn't sure but she said it is a "big possibility." Where she is traveling to and why might help clear things up. Just remember a valid work trip can include other activities. Again I don't want to get this wrong, but as the other guy said "the change in her is a "tell" of some sort." Please let it be that she is spending all her time 24/7 on her trip with her parents or some other scenario that makes it impossible to be infidelity. To be cont...

[On_the_other_hand]

Cont... by the way. I know exactly how you feel about it only happening when she wants. I've had that happen and it killed my passion for when she wanted it. You can think it is childish but when you get it all you can think about is she gets it when she wants and when you want it you can go "kick rocks." You don't need to apologize, I think MANY people would not be happy if this was their relationship. I do think however that she initiates and when she does you are happy to be there for her needs. And when she ins't in the mood, she waits long enough that you finally initiate and she was already not in the mood so your odds of getting turned down is high. But she needs to consider your constant availability to her and how little you ask compared to how many times you give. She may think well when she imitates you want it to so she doesn't have to count your willingness towards the times you agree. This is not cool and it is a big issue. The two biggest reasons for divorce are "Money" and "Sex" you need this fixed, but if you can't, well you aren't married yet and you can still dodge a bullet. Even if she isn't wrong... that doesn't mean she is right for you for a whole lifetime. People can say they don't have to do this or that, but that is saying they don't have to do things in consideration of their partner. I don't think she should do things that she doesn't, but if this is big for you and meh for her then she should consider her priorities and whether a happy partner is important.

[Coolflow9]

So our parents to live in the same town 3 hours away from us and that’s where she goes when she does leave town for a few days. So she’s with family the entire time. I know it’s not cheating my friend haha. I completely agree with the rest of the your comments though. She’s going to have to make an effort to be there not every time I initiate sex, but at least the majority of the time to create some balance. I already told her that I wouldn’t be in a relationship where there is balance in our intimacy.

[On_the_other_hand]

I've taken a little more time to write this reply, to try to get it right. First off. I'm glad you are so sure infidelity isn't the issue. I've just heard too many stories of people going back and cheating with an ex. On to the other subject of initiating sex, this is much bigger issue than many would think. Being significantly older, I've had plenty of time to have a more detailed perspective. After reflecting on this issue in my personal life, I've come to be able to more articulate what it is that makes this a bigger issue than some might think. First off, before some self righteous, holier than thou person goes off in the comments... no one is ever obligated to have sex. That being said, no one is obligated to be happy and no one is obligated to stay together. My experience has taught me what the disconnect is when it comes to rejecting someone who initiates sex. FYI my current girlfriend initiates sex about two to three times more than I do... and I have a high libido. Knowing what I know from my past experiences, I know not to take her initiations casually, just because she wants it more than I do. I think a big mistake some partners make is the idea that “We already have a lot of sex already, its no big deal to turn my partner down, I'll take care of their needs soon.” Your partner isn't a pet you'll take to the park tomorrow. To be cont...

[On_the_other_hand]

Cont... One of the biggest mistakes people make, is thinking their partner's most important needs are physical... wrong. While a lot of the needs are in fact physical, that really isn't the part that is most critical. The partner needs connection and that is what is really behind great sex and a needs to feel valued, just as much as they need an orgasm. The needs that need to be taken care of are psychological, and if not taken care of, it can adversely affect a partner's self esteem, and self worth. What people don't seem to understand is, all that sex, fun and passion is a lot more delicate than many think. Deflating your partners spirits, in what seems like a microscopic way can in fact multiply, and in turn deflate the relationship. Imagine you have one partner that initiates most of the time and the other partner (like I do) is always up for supporting their partner's desires and passions, so much so that I never turn her down, because I've been on the other side of this dynamic. So I give my partner all she wants, whenever she wants, there is one unspoken “contract” that I hope my partner appreciates, and that is this... “I never ask for as much as I give, so, out of consideration, when I do ask, I hope that turning my initiations down won't be taken lightly. To be cont...

[On_the_other_hand]

Cont... Again, no one is obligated to have sex ever, but neither am I. If people in a relationship only do what they are obligated to do in a relationship, that relationship will die quickly. A relationship is a give and take. Keeping in mind how much you don't want to deflate your partner's excitement and passion for the relationship, makes it a no brainer to try and not turn down my partner as much as possible. Turning my partner down too many times can become just as big a loss for both of us. Its hard to win in a relationship when one person isn't winning as much at their partner. But there is more, if you have one partner who is almost never getting turned down and then that well taken care of partner turns around and casually turns down their supportive partner, its a blow to the relationship. Now turning down a partner because you are tired or stressed is perfectly acceptable, what is hard to dismiss is a recurring theme, where one partner gets turned down significantly more than the other. This makes the turned down party feel less valued and less appreciated relative to the effort they make. Again, someone can say to themselves “Well we have lots of sex and I'll make it up to him tomorrow.” It doesn't work that way. To be cont...

[On_the_other_hand]

Cont... Let me explain... one sobering experience for young men is when they get into disagreement with their girlfriend and she brings us something that occurred weeks ago. Something the guy doesn't even remember happened. This blind sides the guy, he didn't even know something was bothering her and she never said anything. On top of that, in the last couple of weeks the relationship has been great. The point is, when it comes to being turned down, for anything, it might seem like a little paper cut, but they add up and just because there have been happy times after those cuts, doesn't mean there isn't damage being done. To be cont...

[On_the_other_hand]

Cont... The rejected partner can start to feel rejected, resentful and unappreciated. Pretty soon the partner is turned off by the higher ratio of rejection, and so they stop initiating. But it gets worse, pretty soon, the clear disparity in the relationship makes the slighted partner not want to make as much of an effort for a partner that is making them less of a priority. This feeling of no longer wanting to put in the extra effort is strongly coupled with a lack of passion when the other partner is actually interested in sex, resenting themselves for giving themselves into their partner's needs when they aren't doing the same. Their physical needs might be mutual, but internally for the lesser partner, the mental connection is slipping. The sex might be passionate, it might enthusiastic, physically relieving, but that “extra” that comes with someone that means more than just the physical, is starting to die. Then the lesser partner actually starts to feel slighted enough that it is starting to affect their physical attraction to their partner. In other words their psychological sexuality is affected so much, it is starting to diminish their physical needs. Then the lesser partner who has now lost some of their drive towards the other partner starts to look like they are pouting or are being passive aggressive, when in fact they are not. To help understand my point, think about it this way... To be cont...

[On_the_other_hand]

Cont... Let's exaggerate the situation. Lets say that one partner gets all the sex they ask for and the other partner never gets the sex they ask for. Do you think that “lesser” partner is going to continue to initiate sex. Then, after they stop initiating sex, do you think, constantly knowing their partner doesn't value them could kill their passion for their partner all together? Do you think the partner who's used to getting all the sex they ask for is going to take issue when their partner is now significantly less interested in having sex in general? Do you think the dominant partner will think their partner is just acting spiteful and childish? If you think about it, if one partner is turned down significantly more than the other... they can't help but lose interest in pleasing their partner. And it WON”T be because they are being pouty or spiteful. Losing excitement for their partner with be unavoidable. Not caring about what is important to your partner is the surest way to breaking up, or a dead relationship. One mistake people make is thinking “Well they want it so much, I've got plenty of room to turn them down sometimes, because they aren't going to end things over something like this, so I can get away with it.” Its almost never one small incident that starts undermining the relationship. If a partner, who is not fully valued. sticks around, it can eat away at their self esteem and eventually it can cause their dominant partner to (subconciously) see them as weak, and lose some respect for them. To be cont...

[On_the_other_hand]

Cont... Who wants to be with a partner they've successfully cut down. People want and respect a strong partner and people need to realize a good relationship requires effort and appreciation. Partners need to keep each other strong. Its little things, little slights, little cuts that can make people eventually wonder what brought down their relationship, when it turns out to be things people thought were little and insignificant, and thinking “Oh well, I'll make it up to them tomorrow, or the next day.” No one wants to sit around waiting to be treated well. Turning a partner down significantly more will psychologically compromise the relationship more than it will affect it physically. When my partner wants me physically, when I wasn't needing her before, I need her now because I need her to need me and that easily inspires me enough to need her, Because I need her to need men, not just in body, but also in spirit. I don't want either of us phoning it in, and to start just having physical sex. One of the reasons I love that my girlfriend intitiates, the more she initiates the less I have to do it, I love seeing her inspired by me and I never want that to die and rejection is the fastest way to kill initiating. On this site you can read about how much girls feel demoralized when they are the ones being rejected when they try to initiate sex. It doesn't take getting turned down too many times to understand why you want to turn your partner down as little as reasonably possible. Take what is important to your partner seriously. In a good relationship things become important to you solely because they are important to your partner. Jump on any opportunity pump up your relationship to the brim, instead of thinking how much each of you can do without.

[Anonymous]

don't you know that women in relationships never have to do anything they don't want to, yet men in relationships are still expected to do crap they don't want to?

[Coolflow9]

Bullshit. I won’t anymore. I told her it’s going to change or we are going to have some real issues. We’ll see how things go over the next few months.

[Quackthulu]

Nobody ever owes you sex. ever.

[OlderAndWiser]

I understand your complaint. It's not JUST the sex. It's much more that feeling that she isn't making you a very high priority in her life. . . is that right?

[Coolflow9]

Right! I’m not dissatisfied with the amount of Sex we have or how intimate we are. It’s that she initiates nearly all the time, but when I do more times than not she’s not in the mood. So it makes me feel like I can’t ever get her in the mood, there’s no spontaneity, and it’s on her schedule. I find that wrong and I refuse to be at her beck and call all the time.

[OlderAndWiser]

Have you talked with her and explained how you feel when she behaves like this? I dated a woman for two years. We were compatible in so many ways that we would have been a good match, except that she had a low libido and I have a high libido. It always felt like sex was something that she did to humor me and not something that she did to express love. When she left town for a week or two weeks, she never invited me to spend the last night together. I felt like a low priority in her life. I talked to her about the problem and she verbally acknowledged that we had a problem but that never translated into any change in her behavior. Even though I was in love with her, I eventually broke up with her - three years ago - because I knew her behavior would never change. I regretted that decision for several months but now realize that it was one of the best decisions of my life.

[Coolflow9]

Yeah like I said the first time this happened I told her how how it made me feel and she agreed to make a better effort before either one of us leaves town for a few days. As well as the times when she’s not in the mood to at least apologize and acknowledge how I feel and make an effort to initiate as soon as she is ready. However, now I have realized she initiated MOST of the time, so of the times I do initiate I might be getting turned down and Sex is totally on her schedule. Last night she didn’t follow through on how to handle the situation and just tried to act like everything was normal and go to sleep. Then I got angry and it turned into a 3 hour talking session.

[OlderAndWiser]

This is the kind of problem where a partner may engage in many discussions because hat always has the effect of "kicking the can down the road." You should make it clear to her that you will judge her feelings for you by her behavior and not by the words she says in these discussions. Miss Ivy always agreed to try harder and be more attentive, but it never really happened.

[Coolflow9]

Oh believe me she’s knows now! She left a bit ago for work and apologized for not following through, but she expected an apology out of me and I did not give it. (I have ALWAYS apologized for being in the wrong before so not problem doing that when I make a mistake). I told her I stand on not letting our intimacy revolve around her doing all the initiating and her schedule only for her to turn me down when I do try. No matter if the amount of sex we are having is satisfactory. It does not feel good to be a somebody’s beck and cal.

[OlderAndWiser]

Good luck, but it doesn't sound overly optimistic that anything will change.

[MannMitAntworten]

In the habit of turning you down before leaving on a trip, huh? Don’t be surprised if one day you discover a burner phone...

[Coolflow9]

Nah man. She was only leaving for 2 days and going to pick up our dog from her parents house. She was with her family the whole time. We have locations enabled on our phones and I can see exactly where she is at all times.

[MannMitAntworten]

It is as I mentioned before... location can be easily spoofed on phones. If you really want to track her whereabouts, geo tag her purse wallet and her keys. Though, I’d just end things rather than go to that degree. Point is, those phone location trackers are novelty at best. ... but, you trust it so let’s assume you are right. That only leaves one thing. She’s losing her sexual interest in you. This doesn’t mean she doesn’t find some other aspect of your presence still appealing. Say, being the primary provider as example in an area where most other men are still trying to figure out life. She knows you are going anywhere but at the same time she is losing her sexual interest in you so she uses the “tired” card and whatnot... and you being the trusting guy you are, believe her. You are already on the quick path to a sexless marriage.