Do you believe open attitudes regarding sexual expression are liberating or disrespectful to women?

[thehorriblesheikh]

Society used to believe that women must be protected from their own sexual selves in order to keep safe themselves and their dignity. A woman's worth was heavily influenced by how society saw her, if she was modest than she was respectable, otherwise she wasn't.

Then came what I call the liberal revolution, and slowly but surely attitudes about female sexuality changed. Women were at the center of the world of sex and they still are, this brought good and significant changes in the world.

Times have rolled on, and now the attitude is that a woman's worth seems to be based on how sexually appealing she is. Though I would disagree with this, as women are more successful than ever in all fields of life in countries that highly sexualize women, and even men. It is hard to say why highly sexualized societies have created successful women even in fields that do not have anything to do with sex, but it is a phenomenan that we see these days.

What do you think? Are open attitudes regarding sexual expression liberating to women or disrespectful?

[Erobos412]

Civilization is built more stable on a society that has monogamy with people having good self control and are capable of delayed gratification. That way the people can pursue higher more rewarding things in life.

Than being sidetracked by instant gratification.

Polygamy and societies where a man has two woman or more will create at best an environment where half of the male population end up alone with no partner.

That creates a fierce wnviirment of fighting and competition. Served Islam quite well historically.

It does also destroy academic pursuits aswell since the males are the one that are most likely to do them in the past and this way half or more of the males are forced to choose. Academic pursuit or procreate by fighting.

All societies that has more than monogamy were smaller less successful overall.

You might say but look at the Aztec. Or hunt and gatherers who are matrioarcy or liberated woman who could have sex with any man and the same thing with men.

When Europeans asked how do you know which child is yours they got laughed at by the men and woman's.

These people has rejected individuality and egalitarianism they see them self as a hivemind of a tribe. Where you do everything you can for the tribe. Breed live die protect the tribe. They were facist to the very core.

They were also very happy and is the most natural state in which humans have lived in for the majority box our existence.

These societies are weak in modern times, they can simply not output as much production to compete with monogamy societies.

[thehorriblesheikh]

Having an open attitude towards sexual expression is not the opposite of monogamy, nor does it have anything to do with polygamy. Most civilizations that were very strong and succeeded in history were actually highly sexual societies, like the Greeks, the Romans, then the Europeans, and now the Americans.

[Erobos412]

True but as they prospered the more decedent they became and it hollowed out and weakend the civilization. Only to renew it's vigor by the bad times. Of plague and chaos. You know once you implement the Gini coefficient on any civilization. Region and strict rituals that are unnatural like monogamy is what creates the attitude to function in a society and navigate it's conveluted mess of rules and laws.

[Erobos412]

Hence enabling it to reach greater heights

[thehorriblesheikh]

I don't think there is any evidence of those civilizations weakening due to their open attitudes towards sexual expression.

[Erobos412]

Yes that true but there is a extremely strong correlation between instant gratification among ruling class, high Gini index and the fall of civilizations cycles Monogamy was one of the tools like fasting and abstinence, religion and culture that forms the attitudes needed to build a civilization. For to see long term gratification/delayed gratification. More liberated societies tends to be more vunerable and less productive. As the success leads to whealth and whealth leads to capital to spend on pleasures in life that hollow out the attitudes needed to maintain the civilisation and the decline begins. What makes present day different than the past is that we are all experiencing this decline at the same time as out civilization cycle has been synchronised witch others because of this global economy. Before it was not so and everyone were in different states along the cycle. When o e failed another nearby country took over. Our current predicaments remind me of 1177bc at the end of the late Bronze age. It was a middle age before our current middle age. Many civilization fell and perished at the same time and writing was lost and people lived so much more primative than before. Egypt was among the only to surrivie this violent decline.

[Erobos412]

You can have sexual liberation for all I care but there is a need to Balance it out with other things that cultivate attitudes of delayed gratification and thinking long-term. Post modernism, globalism, politically correct and intersectionality sees to undermine religion and cultures. For the sake of an emotional Marxist agenda and socialism to take hold.

[thehorriblesheikh]

One of the misunderstandings here is that a highly sexualized society is an impulsive society. That is incorrect. Conservative societies in the world are currently more populated with people who don't really do anything but consume, and consume more. I am supportive of a sexualized society. But I am still a virgin, who does not overspend, or overeat impulsively. I spend most of my time talking to people or reading up on things related to psychology and physics. Point being that a sexualized society doesn't necessarily lead to decadence. Even science would support the assertion that highly sexualized societies are more likely to be prosperous, and I believe that is because of dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that is responsible for pleasure, but also self-control. So, the horniest among us are likely to have more self-control than others. Dopamine also makes us empathetic, but it makes us want the finer things in life as well. So, the same people who own an expensive iPhone, are also likely to have more empathy for those who cannot afford the finer things in life. Dopamine is also associated with creativity, which is why you see a lot of liberals who are into art. Dopamine is also what promotes goal driven behavior, it gives us the motivation to achieve long term goals. A lack of dopamine can make you not have any sense of direction in life, which is something you see among conservatives, they are generally not passionate about anything in life.

[thehorriblesheikh]

You should read up more on dopamine and even serotonin, learn how they affect human behavior, and then reassess the history and lifestyle of great empires, and you will notice that they had a culture that was heavily dopamine oriented. Conservative societies on the other hand are more serotonin oriented, serotonin is also what makes us traditional, apathetic, among other things. As for globalism, I don't think it is a bad thing. People who support globalism want the whole world to became as stable, developed, and culturally evolved as European countries are. But I am not supportive of political correctness, though it is not entirely a bad thing.

[Erobos412]

@thehorriblesheikh Not a misunderstanding but it a bit hard to convey. What I want to point out is that there is a balancing act of attitudes that are needed to maintain civilizations. Especially highly developed ones that needs serotonin based attitudes. When you elevate an attitude it needs to be balanced out since it has pros and cons. In this case sexuality. Now imagine many of these attitudes competing against eachother in an arena with our social media that only seeds more destruction and false information to the masses. The whealth enabled this brain destructive enviorment and it will be our undoing unless we can stop be dogmatic about our ideas and that requires the ability to disconnect and train delayed gratification. To our dopamine addicted minds. Sexual liberation enables an additional outlet for instant gratification. aka more dopamine bombardment and hence inturn a higher dopamin drug tolerance is developed. In subjects in question Drug tolerance is reset/countered by doing excercises regularly. Something most people do not do much of. Compounded with the social media and our interconnected world we will be trapped and dopamine addicts that are more easily manipulated and controlled. Not to mention it is dopamine drug overdose/tolerance is the core increase that lies behind the depression epidemic we have aswell. As normal base level dopamine excretion of every day simulation and life is not enought to make us feel happy and satisfied.

[thehorriblesheikh]

You cannot get addicted to dopamine, psychiatrists have clarified that multiple times, I believe. Sexual liberation and instant gratification are two different things. Having a quickie in the morning with the girlfriend is more instant gratification than watching an hour long porn video. The connection that you are making between sexual liberation and instant gratification doesn't actually exist, easy to engage in methods of instant gratification exist in both sexualized and conservative societies. A liberal society is simply more honest about things. You are overthinking dopamine to an extreme. It is not some drug like weed. These misconceptions lead to distorted perceptions of many things, so it is best to not overthink. There is no connection between high dopamine individuals and those who are easily manipulated. Dopamine overdose does not lead to depression, a serotonin deficiency is likely to be the cause, everybody needs both dopamine and serotonin to a certain degree.

[Erobos412]

Dopamine overdose is one of the causes that contribute to depression, there is of course other factors in play aswell not to mention it is the balancing act of serotonin and dopamine that forms our daily rythm and habits and decisions When we excercise we make our self more drug sensitive. Did you know that the body produces its own addictive opiods why else do you think the opiod receptors are in the brain in the first place? They are evolutionary mechanism there to reward or null out the pain when we were hunt and gatherers and lived much more active lives now day. It also reset and increase drug sensitivity. When you meditate or expose regularly to cold exposure the brain will adapt and produce opiods to cope with the stress to surrivie. It happens on all hormones not the brain. Insulin, cortisol, adrenaline. They are all hormones that you become more responsive with movement and excercises as the body learns to become more efficient and less wasteful.

[thehorriblesheikh]

If you are saying that a sexualized society is strongly leading to an overdose of dopamine in the masses, you are reading too much into things. While a balance between serotonin and dopamine is considered ideal, people usually have one more active than the other.

[Erobos412]

And yes we can get addicted to dopamine in a sense not the way you are imagining it I suspect as it is not a drug in that sense, dopamine is not just a brain hormone but a metabolic hormone that regulate the internal clock and digestion as well. When you bombard your self with dopaminr without enabling/inflamming the body by doing excercises you over simulate the symphatic nervous system. Excercise enables the parasympatic to balance the over simulated harmful symphatic nervoussystem

[Erobos412]

This leads to more strain to the body, more forced muscular contractions,, stroke volumes, Vaso constriction, it all accelerate disease progression and hearth failure especially when you are in a carb dependant metabolism and has not unlocked the metabolic flexibility to harnesses fat burning metabolism though fasting and a ketogenic diet.

[thehorriblesheikh]

Again, if you think a girl dressed in a provocative outfit is the cause of these issues, you are reading too much into things.

[Erobos412]

@thehorriblesheikh Yes indeed lol just wow how deep this rabbit hole went. Well for what it worth I highly enjoyed this exchange. Thanks 👍

[JSmith925]

I think they are liberating as long as they show respect for the woman's desires and boundaries. So, recognizing that women are sexual creatures and deserve to be satisfied is liberating.

However, I agree with you that as women became accepted as sexual entities, they also became even more objectified and exploited for their sexuality. In fact, they have become “pornified.” We have 14 year old girls asking if they should let their boyfriend have their virginity because they are afraid of losing him. Others are asking if they should shave everywhere because their boyfriend wants them to look like the women he sees in porn. Girls are asking if they should let themselves be penetrated anally even though it hurts and is unhealthy for them. These are not subjects a young teen girl should feel pressured to contemplate.

This is not liberation. It is subjugation.

~JSmith

[thehorriblesheikh]

While I agree with you that 14 year old girls shouldn't feel like they have to do something they do not want to, to be liked by their boyfriend. However, that is more of an age issue and it is quite the personal issue. If we force big changes on society based on what we believe a woman or a young girl wants, than that is also subjugation, of the conservative kind. In highly sexualized societies, women still retain the choice of the direction they want to take their life in, wether that be of becoming a porn star or a physicist. In any society, wether sexualized or not, an attractive woman will turn more heads than an intelligent woman, just as an attractive man will turn more heads than an intelligent man. Any man or woman that believes that they are considered less attractive because they chose to be a physicist over a porn star is jealous, and enforcing change to satisfy someone's jealousy or low self-esteem is not something reasonable to do. It is okay to want to be seen as more attractive than those who are generally seen as more attractive, but it is wrong to enforce change in the hopes of being seen as more attractive than those who are considered attractive.

[Gedaria]

They are coming out and doing what they want to be..