I don’t actually believe that a man can be a women and a women can be a man I think this idea of transgendism is a mental illness called gender dysphoria. Im just curious on how the people who does believe this stuff logics it out.
However 2 years ago she was a women, she was a lesbian 2 years ago her wife is a lesbian. So is she now a straight white man now? Or did she trick her wife to make her think she was a women when really she was a man? I would say that’s rape wouldn’t you? Or is Emma porter straight now?
Please respect HIS pronouns. To your knowledge he was gay, but it could’ve been an internal struggle even then, and I am sure it’s something he spoke with his wife about. So no, I would never go as far as to even suggest he was a rapist.
Wait to if he is gay should he want to be with other men? Aka real men people with actual male genitalia. So if he is with a women that would make him straight right? If he is truly a he. Also does this now make Emma porter straight because she is with a man now?
You’re overthinking something very simple. Ellen became Elliot. He was into women then, and is into women now. He is trans, meaning he is not a lesbian, because he does not identify as a female. His wife accepts him as he is, and I am sure they had the discussion several times about if Emma still wants to be with Elliot.
Ok so since Eliot identity as a women when he married Emma porter in 2018 Eliot was a she and identified as a lesbian when they were married. Now Eliot is identifying as a man does that mean that Emma is now straight? did she give up on being a lesbian and now Emma porter is straight. Is that how this work? Because if Emma porter is a she and she said she was a lesbian was she lying about being a lesbian? Was Eliot lying about being a women back in 2018 Yes I’m sure they had a talk with each other. For the General public how does that work? Please explain to me the logic here?
No, this does not mean Emma is interested in men. I’ll say this another time — I believe a conversation has been had between them discussing Elliots sexuality. I also believe they discussed whether or not Emma would be comfortable staying with Elliot if he identified as a man. There was no lie. Obviously, their love is deeper than surface appearances, they are happy together and stayed together.
Ok I don’t care what they say in their private life. If they love each and stay together idc. Last time I check if your a lesbian you fall in love with other women if your gay you fall in love with other men. If your straight fall in love with member of the opposite sex. Right? Or is there no such thing as gay lesbian or straight. You can’t have it both ways. Either Eliot is a man now and Emma is still a women then Emma by that logic is now a straight women and no longer a lesbian. Or does lesbian gay and straight man and women not exist. Again I don’t care about the conversation they had in their personal life. On a practical level not going into any other detail then the facts on the ground. How if Emma a lesbian when she is married to a man. By terminology alone not there Conversations between each other. On a definitional level how is she not straight if she is in love with a man and she is a women?
No offense, but you’re acting so entitled right now and should take it down a notch. You’re saying you don’t care what they say in private as if it’s truly any of your business? What you want is for everything to be cut and dry but that’s not how relationships work. I’m not understanding your confusion. Yes, Elliot was once a woman, and if were being extremely technical, still is because he was born as a female. During his time as a female, he met and married Emma. For a time, Elliot probably felt that he was only gay, but eventually realized that it was beyond this. At which point, their private conversation ABSOLUTELY matters, because Emma may not have wanted to stay with Elliot if he’d be a boy, and that is a very important discussion for two people to have. Ultimately (and obviously) they decided to stay together. Period, the end. You don’t need to classify everything, dude. Or put a title on what works for them.
Sorry if I’m acting entitled. what I’m looking for is definitions. Example if you are a male who like other males, you are gay. If you are a female and you like other females you are a lesbian if you are straight and a male you like females. Am I right? Let’s take a couple that doesn’t exist for example if Ashley is in love with Kendra and there a couple they would be a lesbian couple. Max is in love with Brent they would be a gay couple. If Robert is in love with Alina they would be a straight couple. but If max decided that he was a woman one day Brent would no longer be gay because in order to be a gay couple they would both have to be men. If Ashley decided that she was a man they would be a straight couple because they there is a man and a women if Robert said he was a woman then they would be a lesbian couple. So how does this situation work by using definitions without any other factors involved.
I already understood what you were getting at, I just think you’re complicating a simple situation. If Elliot weren’t with Emma, Emma would still be a lesbian — her preference doesn’t just automatically change. However, her and Elliot made a mutual decision to stay together, despite the transition. Is there a new title or classification for Emma? To my knowledge, no, and there simply doesn’t need to be. Elliot still likes women as well, even if you wouldn’t call him a lesbian anymore because he is no longer a female. So as far as terminology and definition goes, this is a situation that would be further complicated by trying to define it. Things are made simpler by just looking at the surface facts of what’s happening, and not trying to land them as this or that.
So having definition is the way language works you have to have a definition for this otherwise it’s know as nonsense in the technical terms. They way society stay together is to have set definition that define what you are doing and what others are to call you in order to understand the behavior. If there is no definition to the situation then what one is trying to say is nonsense. So if this is outside the realm of definition then it is non sense. That how language works. It also has a boarder sense in society and how legal law works. For example if Emma did not like the fact that Elliot decided that Elliot was a man she’s down to go claim that it was sexual assault earlier tricked her into marrying Eliot and Eliot could go to prison for sexual assault. Think beyond this case if sure Emma is fine with it, But what if there another couple who isn’t fine with it and claims she had been tricked by a man into thinking he was a women, when biologically he is a women. (Sorry I’m studying law right now so I’m also trying to figure this out legally)
I’m sorry but what you’re saying is just simply nonsensical. Consensual sex, no matter what your gender or background is, is what defines whether something is rape or not. I could be fully engaged in consensual sex, but the moment I say NO, the consent is gone and that is rape. Just because Elliot was Ellen before, does not make her a rapist now that she’s identifying as another gender. That’s idiotic and makes zero sense. The sex was still consensual and continues to be. As I said before, I do not personally know any terminology for what Elliot and Emma would define themselves as now, but it doesn’t take away from my respect for their situation and knowledge of what it is: two consenting, in-love adults living in their truth. Just because you can’t categorize them does not mean their situation is nonsense, and it’s insulting for you to suggest otherwise. If you don’t understand, and you genuinely want a better understanding, then do some more research around the web. Or better yet, have a conversation with a trans individual. But stop trying to push this narrative. It’s insensitive and quite frankly ignorant.
No it’s not rape but legally it’s considered sexual assault say I find a women at a bar if it turns out to be a trans women then I could sue the trans women for sexual assault because I did not consent into kiss someone with a penis, Also it has societal ramifications as well. The way men treat men is different then. The way we treat women, if a women insults us then we not likely to pinch them in the face of a man does the same thing we would likely punch them in the face (especially when alcohol is involved). Now either way we’re going to go to jail for physical assault however if id it’s a man I’m punching in the face in a bar scuffle I might go to jail for the night rather then 3-5 years for hitting a women. Presumably if a trans man is hit by another man because they are biologically a woman we go to jail for 3 to 5 years The same thing happens if we had a trans woman. Now that’s just one way all society throughout human history have treated different genders if you are a female you are less likely to go to jail for hitting a man then if you would be a Male hitting a female. There are some societies that say that is perfectly fine for a man to hit a woman but it’s not OK for a woman to have a man look at the Islamic culture. Laws and language are not malleable you can’t go from one definition to the other you need a societal consensus normally coming from hard science like biology. This is one things you do in your own home have a more broader societal ramifications than you actually think.
I do agree with all of that, however, none that isn’t the case in this specific situation, because that’s what we’re talking about, not other random instances of assault. Ellen and Emma were two consenting, lesbian adults for a time. Up until Ellen became Elliot, of course, which even after they were consenting.
ok so does that now make them two consenting straight adults?
Two consenting adults. They don’t need a label.
they do need labels because thats how sharing a common language works especially in law.
Well, rather than trying to decipher this on your own, I’d honestly suggest speaking with a trans person about their pronouns and terminology. That’s the most respectful way. If you are unwilling to at least try that route then you have no business debating with other non trans, straight people about “labels”, and I don’t mean that rudely. I understand that a lot of this is relatively new, with individuals feeling more comfortable to live in their truth and risk their lives (literally, because homophobia is scarily real). However, to truly understand (if you do), we need to be able to sit with a person from that background and gain some perspective. It’s flat out disrespectful for you to call a lesbian woman straight, or a trans person a possible rapist, just because you are determined to define their background for your “law research”. If you want to know, for real, ask THEM.
Unfortunately the only trans person i know is on the west side of Washington right now they should be back in January once winter break is done. I have no issue talking about this kind of stuff with Kendall but I don’t have there phone number we have classes together normally. when we had physical class together id ask Kendall about this kind of stuff all the time since covid hit I haven’t been able to talk to Kendall much and I doubt I’ll have an opportunity to do so, so I’m stuck asking questions here. If sure blare white would make the same arguments I’m making here
You’re not Stuck, just wait until you can speak to them in person, or on social media. I don't know, maybe you’re bored and this is preoccupying your thoughts/time/etc, but I hope you understand that it’s just simply inappropriate. You probably don’t get it, because you’ve broken things down to needing terms/labels/etc, but trying to define someone’s sexuality due to what makes logical sense to you just doesn’t work in this day and age. There are too many terminologies, different areas of lgbtq+ that it’s no longer as plain as straight/gay/lesbian. So you’re better off just waiting, bc this topic is not of utmost importance or anything that is going to effect you directly right now, like a client you are defending or something. So be patient dude.
part of it is boredom yes, the other part is when you study history philosophy and language like i do, these bring up philosophical and linguistic challenges. which j think anyone can talk about. now as a libertarian i dont really care what people do in there own lives. but is order to understand this stuff you gotta put some sort of logic behind it. this would be Cartesian dualism which comes from rene descartes idea that the mind is separate from the body. so in that theory you can have the mind of male being in a females body or a female being in a males body. and then how you would define such terminology based on the language and information we have.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t talk about it. My point is that the conversation you’re trying to have is one to create a definition/term/label that makes logical sense to you, since you can’t find one online, and unless you tell me otherwise, are unwilling to wait and speak with a trans person. What I’m trying to relay is that your process is inappropriate, because with this specific situation you cannot create your own lane as a straight person trying to understand trans terminology. You should speak with someone of that background and ask them what they go by.
Yea I can’t find one online since transgender make up.001% of the population (which is why you’ll never get the south or the mid west to accept. Transgenders. So it’s like trying to find someone who answer these question. I actually got a hold though email that transgender person I was talking about. She said I’d have to ask a transgender linguistic which doesn’t exist in the United state currently its exists in Britain but not the United state unfortunately. I’ve also tried to have the conversation on how can you back Iran and be transgender or homosexual because they will “honor kill”. Trans people and gay people what do you think should Muslims be kicked out of the Democrats party because there religion requires them to kill gays and transgender. Never got a straight answer with that question.
So she’s a rapist which means the former junk start should be going to jail right?
Elliot page can't go to jail, the patriarchy have his back, and that's why he still walking free.
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This is true, but using the idea of gender theory how does this work? Yes I know gender theory is stupid.
I personally don't want to fry my last few braincells by diving into gender theory because I don't see the purpose of such theories.
The purpose is to destroy the idea of masculinity. My goal delving into this kinda of stuff it to get people to realize how illogical the theory is.
It sounds like it's trying to turn men into worse women and women into worse men.
Basically they take everything negative about being a man and says this makes you a man and the everything negative about being a women and saying that makes you a women read the conversation above she keeps going off about the conversation these to women had as a couple. Like I care about what they talked about in there private life. How does it work definitionally. She can’t because it makes no sense.