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For those against abortion, if abortion is considered "murder," then wouldn't male masturbation be considered "murder" just as much?

For those against abortion, if abortion is considered murder, then wouldnt male masturbation be considered murder just as much?
An interesting point I brought up in this post here. I mentioned how many people don't consider a pre-born fetus to be "a human life," and how:

If aborting a fetus is murder, then isn't letting sperm die via male ejaculation is just as much 'murderous' as well?

Unless you can argue to me how a fetus is "life," but the sperm in semen isn't? (Which makes no logical sense.) Therefore, for consistency, if you are a pro-life male, then you must never masturbate, or else, you'd be making yourself out to be a hypocrite and murdering more "life" than just one fetus.

Now, I say all this without personal or emotional investment in it. It's for the sake of debating.

Me personally, I am pro-choice because 1) I know what it's like to grow up with a mother who never wanted me, 2) I think sh*tty parenting is the cause of the majority of all problems in society, and 3) the world is over-populated as it is and we don't need more people in it considering nearly eight billion is enough and we can't even take care of most of the humans we have now.

HOWEVER... I can sympathize with those who are pro-life. I just don't fully agree because the premise seems to be "being born to a sh*tty mother and life is better than not being born at all." I can't see the logic in that.

So with that said, I am pro-choice, but not exactly anti-life, either. I think abortion is a "case by case" basis and the laws we have now for it are fine for the most part (not getting into the whole "father has literally no rights or voice towards the fate of the unborn child," which is an entirely different argument, altogether.)
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+1 y
I can see some of your points and concede that some of you made great points I wouldn't have thought of. As I said, I'm not that invested in abortion even though I'm pro-choice, but it was a good debate, anyway! :)
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Most Helpful Guys

  • Okay I will bite. By first normalizing everything, sperm, eggs, zygotes and say skin cells are and can be expelled naturally—If fertilization fails, the zygote is expelled too. That is it, the basic physiology. Therefore, from a cellular point of view, nature is cruel. The issue is the start of a new soul and those that believe and or sense souls. When a “collection of cells” is extinguished that would have marked the beginning of a new soul that is the end of new life for those that can see. Those that have no sense or ability to feel a soul including their own really are only collections of cells themselves. These soulless ones are usually very shallow in life, see everything as scientific based black and white typically, and are very limited in other perceptions. These same ones shake with fear by the simple thought of their own death; they are easily led by that, jab. If you ever probe one of them during a conversation, you will find emptiness and be able to see all the way to the back of their skulls through their eyes and some are truly demonically possessed that can send a chill if not careful. Therefore, the bottom line is if you treat it as purely physiological, well hell, then any full-grown person is a collection of cells that has no value and is to be terminated with all equality. This does flow well with the globalists’ push to exterminate large cross-sections of the population and they view the zygote as a collection of cells as well as every other mature human. The only reason they don’t want to exterminate all of the humans is, they enjoy the lifestyle of slaves. That is the bow on it.

  • Well picture the woman egg being a motor vehicle without tires. Then the mans sperm tires. When you put the 2 together you get a functioning car. If the guy comes along with 20 tires and you only fit 4, it doesn't mean you destroying 16 cars.

    You need both in order to build something. So you can say but "it becomes life" or "it's a living cell". Sure, but we got many living cells everywhere. Are we murdering trees and plants when we eat a salad? If we scratch our forehead and 'scrap' living cells off are we murders because those cells now die? Sperm cells naturally die off after a week inside males in any case, our own body is killing babies?

    That sock is not a death pit, it's a patch of cells that have lived their life (and probably fossiled in the sock, lol)

    • The point is, what makes an unborn fetus anymore "special" or worthy to consider "a sacred human being who's life shouldn't be aborted" anymore than a chicken egg, or all the cows we eat as burgers every day on this planet? Why is that "murder" unjust, but cows and pigs for meat consumption isn't? If sperm isn't considered "worthy enough" as life, what makes an unborn fetus any different? Merely because it took a dad and mom to make?

    • Okay, I thought the question was more around masturbation being murder. But a 'fetus' of only 2 or 4 cells really is just cells. One doesn't realize how many times these small zygotes actually get ejected by the womans body because they not worthy a lot of the time. As the zygote grows it becomes a fetus. It has a brain and heart beat. If you consider that just a bunch of cells, well then we all just a bunch of cells. But there also is no distinction between us and cows. We say eating another person is 'frowned upon' were maybe nature intended us to each other like we eat cows and eggs.

    • "It has a brain and heart beat." So do you consider the separation from "just cells" to "human being" being the heart and brain functions? Would that be when the heart and brain is fully developed, or once it begins to develop? Is a fetus which has an early, pre-developed heart and brain not good enough to count as human life, and is that acceptable enough to abort?

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Most Helpful Girls


  • It’s a complicated question with a complicated answer.


    People often accuse those who are pro choice as being “pro abortion” which is not true.
    .
    My stance is, I believe in womens rights and if a woman is in such a dire place that she makes the agonizing decision to have an abortion, she should be able to do that.
    .
    I, personally, could never have an abortion. Even if I was raped. I could never kill my own baby. That is me. I also consider myself a very good parent - my kids are happy, healthy and thriving.
    .
    That being said, sperm is not the same as an embryo. Millions of sperm are contained in every ejaculate. Nature designed most sperm to go to waste. It is not until the chromosomes from the egg line up with the chromosomes of the sperm that a true, live being is created.
    .
    Do you believe a woman daring to have her mensural cycle every month is having an abortion?

    • It's not "my logic." I am just saying, it is odd for who believe a fetus is "human life" that should not be aborted, but that sperm and an egg isn't worthy of the same honor. I personally can't see the distinction, but as I said, I am not that emotional about abortion anyway.

    • The chromosomes have not “zipped up” that is the distinction. 😊

    • So you count as a human being the moment the sperm and egg connect together?

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  • I am not against abortion, but this comparison makes no sense. What they are against is stopping something that potentially could become a child, sperm can't do that on it's own. By your logic, every failed attempt to get pregnant would also be murder.

    • How can't sperm potentially become a child? How is that "less valuable of life" than a fetus? And it's not "my logic." I am proposing, if abortion is considered "killing a human life," how is it not doing the same with sperm or a woman getting rid of an egg every month? I don't consider abortion to be murder, this agree the other two examples are also not murder.

    • Well a woman getting rid of an egg can hardly be seen as murder in THEIR logic, as it's not alive, the egg is also useless by that time. Sperm is at least alive, but it hasn't reached an egg, and would therefore never survive. A sperm cell that has reached an egg will most likely survive. What you're proposing here, is that a person falling down a cliff, is the same as another person grabbing the side of the cliff as they're falling only to have someone step on their hands.

    • The same logic would apply to pro-choice people regarding a fetus. It's not alive or useful TO THEM. They would only consider it alive after birth, the same way you can't be "dead" prior to birth. And the other thing is, you said the sperm would not survive outside of the egg. Which means expelling semen through masturbation, without going into an egg is "killing" all those semen. The same way abortion is "killing a baby." It is the same logic. Your metaphor would be more like you push someone off a cliff, but it only counts as "murder" if you stop them from saving themselves (the abortion), but not murder for pushing them off the cliff.

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  • This where I don't necessarily agree with conservatives. I am a classically liberal person who thinks a person should do whatever they want so long as it does not violate the liberties of another individual.

    I by no means advocate for abortion. In fact, I would want the numbers to go down. But prohibition of commonplace habits has always lead to disaster. People ought to make their own choices. I would rather see society make the choice to end abortion without mandate than authoritarian rule.

    My stance on vaccines are consistently the same. I am pro-vaccine, but I am not pro-mandate.

  • If abortion is murder than are blowjobs considered cannibalism if your partner swallows?

  • Once a human egg is fertilized, either naturally or artificially and, if cellular mitosis is successful, then the zygote travels down the fallopian tubes, attached itself to the uterine wall, where it will grow and mature, ( if left unmolested),. until birth. If fertilization is successfully, then it is a human being because it now has a new, unique, human D. N. A. which in scientific terms, is the beginning of human life.

  • Yup. Not much difference.
    Both are at a cellular level

  • Nah, not a great argument. Neither could you make a case for a woman getting her eggs harvested and then throwing them in the trash. They are just cells that have a purpose. They do not fit the criteria for living things.

    • "They are just cells that have a purpose. They do not fit the criteria for living things." This is literally the exact argument for being pro-abortion. Those who are pro-abortion don't see it as life until the fetus is born as a baby. Or in some cases, at least not until the third trimester. When does it stop being "just cells" and start becoming "a human being"? Pro-life people would say "life begins at conception." But that would then include the sperm and egg, which are "just cells" at that stage too, wouldn't it?

    • You are right about that. I think that at some point the fetus become a living being and not just a bunch of cells. When that is is above my pay grade however. I do not know who should make that decision. I just know it should not be the Pope and it should not be Joe Biden.

  • Well isn't that a mind fuck

  • That joke will never not be completely stupid.

    You need a sperm and an egg to make life. This is something you learn in middle school, come on fuckwits.

  • Or a woman having her period and flushing out a potential fetus.

  • Sperm aren’t humans. They help create them.

    • By the logic of pro-choice people is, fetuses aren't humans either. They just have human DNA and can become humans once born.

  • Nothing wrong with slapping the salami.

  • That's a very bad comparison. Masturbating and releasing sperm is more the equivalent of cutting oneself shaving and jabbing drops of blood drop into the sink. The blood cells are alive just like sperm. A fertilized egg is a MUCH different situation.

    • "A fertilized egg is a MUCH different situation." How so?

    • Because it has become a viable life, it is no longer just a living cell.

  • Even if we had sex every million but one sperm would make it to the egg so that’s stupid abortion is choosing to end a life in its early development you might as well go in a daycare with an Ar and let it rock

    • The contention is that those who are pro-choice disagree that a fetus is a human life and the same thing as an infant or toddler. My question (not a personal one, but for debate's sake) is, what makes sperm less worthy to be "life" and a six week old fetus more worthy to be "life?"

    • Because a sperm is something entirely different

  • Sperm will never turn into anything by itself, an embryo will with no complications.

  • A sperm cell or an egg by itself is not life. They have to combine

    • But the other argument is a fetus is "not a human being." Just parts and bits of human DNA. They have to be born first to count as a living human being.

    • Because it's developing. The first two on their own don't develop. They only do so once the mix, that's a part of the argument that's often missing

    • But the developing part would be irrelevant to a pro-choice person, because the fetus can't develop independent of the mother's womb, just like sperm can't develop without the egg. In other words, they don't consider it alive if it isn't autonomously living on its own, like an infant or newborn can (although those can't survive for TOO LONG on their own, they can survive without an umbilical cord or womb).

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  • Nope, because sperm are not a human life. A human life is formed when sperm and egg combine and begin to grow, not before that.

  • Life begins at erection and not conception?

  • No because a fetus is a fertilized egg. All a man does when he jerks off is disposing of the fertilizer.

  • No because if a male doesn't masturbate he can sometimes ejaculate in his sleep anyway.
    (Wet dreams)

  • I only care about human life. A sperm cell by itself is not considered human.

    • The same exact argument applies to a fetus. Something that is unborn and not fully developed cannot be considered human. And it's not just a sperm cell. So how is your argument any different than pro-choice people's argument?

    • You are incorrect. An unborn baby is considered a human being according to science.

    • Stating factually wrong things and just adding "according to science" after it doesn't make you sound smarter. Like I said, I don't have any emotional investment in this and just asking it for debate purposes. But you don't seem like you're willing to give me too many great responses.

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Home >  Sexual Relationships  > For those against abortion, if abortion is considered "murder," then wouldn't male masturbation be considered "murder" just as much?