Why do some guys feel like you owe them sex after one date?

[Justneedtokno]

Sex is a bigger deal then a few dollars you spend on one meal. That I can also pay for myself.

I understand sometimes girl feel comfortable with it but don’t make it an expectation.

Also the first date should not be at you place of residence, nor mine.

[Aakash_Hangargi]

So in your sentence do you see it the power lies with the girl.

It's all about experiences now you say that guy thinks you owe him sex and also you say that other girls might be ok and not to make it as an expectation this is very narrow and selfish way of thinking as you are only thinking about your feelings look from the other side of the mirror as well.

If guys says it his a womanizer , if he doesn't he might be not interested I think he might be secretly gay these are the things women talk about men and when women talk the word spreads lol.

So men go with the expectation that best suits them best based on there general experiences.

It's same as women expect men to pay these things are set from there experiences they have both men and women

Consider that you have been on 10 dates in which 8 paid for the simple meal you say now you are on your 9 th date and he asks to split the bill you would never see his ass again bc with your experience on prior dates you will be in conomdrum now and would need time to think on the person.

And chances are you won't meet him again.

If you don't like to have sex say it to him I don't do it on first date

[DonkeyDan]

Because some guys have no boundaries and have zero concept of what is appropriate or how women feel emotionally. Most of these guys are immature and after one thing only.

[NicoletteXO]

Thanks for being someone normal and decent here, in a sea of male bitterness.

[Justneedtokno]

Boundaries are a big thing and self control

[DonkeyDan]

Sometimes I'm ashamed of my own sex.

[DonkeyDan]

Sex as in gender, not my actual sex lol

[NicoletteXO]

Got it :) Seriously, observing the men on this thread - even ones I had had previously reasonable connections with - is whack. To put it mildly. So many bitter, angry, selfish and withholding men! Like, do they really think that if they are not willing to cobble together a few grand for a ring representing a lifelong connection, that we should be totally cool with carrying their children for 9 months, risking our own death, destroying our bodies, breastfeeding for years at all hours with sleep deprivation being the number one method of torture... and yet... "sorry women don't deserve a decent ring, they are entitled hoes". Wow. No wonder women are divorcing at higher rates than ever.

[NicoletteXO]

I've said this before and I'll say it again - thank GOD men in real life are not generally like these GaG crazies.

[NicoletteXO]

Oh! lol... I totally thought I was responding to a different thread (the one that is currently blowing up re- engagement rings). Sorry for the irrelevant commentary!! And thanks again for being one of the cool guys :)

[DonkeyDan]

Lol, I've done that before. Thanks for the compliment, I try to be a good person ♥️

[Ashalia]

I'm impressed Dan ty for being a decent guy!!!

[DonkeyDan]

Thanks for the MHO ♥️

[NicoletteXO]

Out of curiosity, how do you know these guys ‘feel like you owe them sex’? Do they say it, or what’s your experience? I’ve literally only ever had one guy in my whole life who I felt had this mentality.


He was super attractive, Eastern Euro, paid for a lavish dinner for us (definitely a few hundred dollars)… conversation and chemistry seemed to be flowing really well for like 4-5 hours… we kissed … which I was very happy to do… then at the end he asked me to come back to his place and I declined. His mood went from super warm to ‘bitchy cold’ in a split second. It was quite shocking. He had been a perfect gentleman until that point. Then… usually a guy will text to see if I got home ok after a date … nothing. And then the next day he sent some lame hyper sexualised message (I think there was even a dick pic). I was not impressed. But this only ever happened once to me in my life. It was pretty evident that he thought I owed him something because of the lavish dinner. What a shame. He was so hot!

[Justneedtokno]

There have been some on this website. Also a few that I have been on. One guy was wonderful. He was kind. He had manners. Until the end of the day he asked if I wanted to go to his place or mine and it I said I’m sorry no thank you. And he stated I paid for the date why not. We should just met. He never called again because I didn’t put out. That’s why said some not all.

[NicoletteXO]

Whoa. So on the first day you met he literally said “why won’t you sleep with me since I paid for the date?” WTF. Oh well, next!

[Justneedtokno]

Lol 😅 I kid you not the things happen. The other guy was similar you guy sending random sexual messages and the dick pic. Thats not a turn on.

[NicoletteXO]

What a douche! Who raised these people?

[Justneedtokno]

The inpatient society we live in

[NicoletteXO]

Indeed. Just engaging in the dialogue with Mr "You know who" above has me feel quite flat about the state of affairs. But I need to remind myself that GaG is full of low calibre men - a much higher proportion than the general populace. Most men are not like this.

[crazy8000]

@Justneedtokno Hope you realize that it's a non written rule for many no matter gender goes after. If the other one pays for the date it's a signal for hoockup. Even if the other one insists/expects the other one pay. If you two split it's for something serious or none hoockup. My advice for next date with someone insist on splitting the bill. If not you have a high possibility of the same or seen as a user ( parasite ) .

[Ashalia]

@crazy8000 that's a bad rule that is giving into this degeneration of society rather than combating the mindset behind it

[NicoletteXO]

@Ashalia I agree with you. And I disagree that it is a rule to begin with. Perhaps amongst low calibre men I'm glad I don't meet or date.

[Ashalia]

This is such an intriguing thread because there's so many underlying human relation factors to a rather simple question. Ty to the asker. I'm trying to formulate my thoughts into some of those reasons we fight on frivolous matters like Diodoro when in reality it's just two sides (good coin bad taken into consideration)

[NicoletteXO]

@Ashalia Intriguing at one level, yes. But don't underestimate the fact that a lot of men are just Jonesing for a fight here, and there are also plenty of trolls lurking around.

[Justneedtokno]

@crazy8000 I don’t know about that unwritten rule especially after the first date. Maybe a few or more. You don’t know me and I don’t feel comfortable with it.

[Ashalia]

And those are the guys who don't get laid unless they pay for it lol

[Ashalia]

For those out there that are legitimately looking for an approach to the underlying issue at hand it comes down to understanding and communication from both parties male female or anything in-between. Every PERSON is different and should be respected but no PERSON has any right to require or demand something of another. If a guy feels paying for dinner means he's owed sex he's out of line if a girl is invited out and assumes he's paying she's overstepping. Not saying there is not a modicum of chivalry left in this world and as a woman I can say it feels good to be "taken care of" if a man invites me out. But I neither assume that nor if he does will put out because of it. Every PERSON is different and if you respect the person you are dating that will reflect in your attitude actions and expectations.

[ludorock]

It is totally valid to feel this way. And there is very much a culture among some men these days that women are basically machines that you put dates and compliments into, and get sex out. The incel culture, if you will.

I'm sorry this has been your experience with guys, it sucks. But, I think, it's a small percentage of men - who are very vocal online so it makes it seem bigger than it is. All of the guys I know/am friends with, would be appalled by that kind of behavior.

[SteveSmith1985]

Because those guys think of all women as thought they were prostitutes. They look at it more in terms of an exchange. They give you dinner, and a night out or whatever. You, in exchange are supposed to grant them sexual access to your body. They see women more as a 'thing' to be enjoyed, rather than as a full person. No decent guy is going to look at it that way.

[chrissykerdock]

in 2021 if a guy pays for dinner at a nice restraunt he wants a blowjob... something to think about before you accept a date.

[NicoletteXO]

That’s not my experience

[sunshineglow]

Undercultured people with no common sense and with too much selfishness, what to say. It's not supposed to be a norm - today some people have no idea what's appropriate.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

I don't know.. Sex isn't something anyone owes to someone, it should be a mutual want/desire for one another.. I don't do owed/obligation sex, or badgered/ coerced sex...

[DizzyDesii]

Thats why i say upfront that sex is not something i give the first few months so that they dont expect it

[katiesmuff]

That is ignorant thinking

[TheorionMage]

'True' but reciprocally... let's NOT 'candy-coat' the underlying purpose of a non-platonic date in our culture.
Each, is conducting an intimate 'job interview'. One MAY HAVE an unlimited number of ranked 'platonic' friends; but I myself ALWAYS went into a 'dating' scenario WILLING to explore the potential for THAT NON-platonic "One". That's 'when' an 'interview' turns into an 'audition'. "Impress me" as we BOTH try to rock one another's world~

Realizing that she would HAVE TO BE someone for WHOM, I COULD "forsake all others" for my lifetime.
THAT, is a PRETTY STRONG 'audition' to get a sincere 'call back' encore!

[Flower7]

Because they think the girl is for sale?

[JamesRandiDebates]

All women are for sale.

[msc545]

@JamesRandiDebates exactly.

[lilyanony1]

I always say to women don't date unless you can afford to pay for your meal and drink and cab home. It settles so much. And you act differently.

[Justneedtokno]

Well that’s why I said it like yes I can’t afford to pay for my own meal but if we are dating then I feel as if you wanna pay for me. That’s also why I drive myself to the date or use Uber

[lilyanony1]

The days of chivalry are dead and gone. So I don't expect a man to pay for me. When you date a little while you kinda get to know your audience. It's lovely when a guy wants to pay and only wants to make sure you get off on your journey safely, so you can see each other again. But that's a rarity now. Too many women have taken the piss out of good men and so many more men are angry out here mostly due to the equality fight and the independent woman attitude and the masculinity bashing even when the guy means no offence. Just be prepared really and if you really have no intention of seeing him again insist on paying for what you actually had.

[TangBang69]

Because they know if they endure the suspense you're gonna find out sooner or later what a lame lay he is, might as well get it over with , get his nub wet and his rocks off in the same motion.

[BossThe2nd]

If you place cost on sex then don't be surprised when men treat you as a prostitute.

[NicoletteXO]

Could you flesh this out? In what way do you feel the OP is placing a cost on sex!

[BossThe2nd]

"Sex is a bigger deal then a few dollars you spend on one meal. That I can also pay for myself. " OP clearly sees sex as a transaction for something, she wants some concrete things in return for sex which she perceives as greater in value than a few dollars spent on a meal. . Sex is not a transaction, you either are attracted to someone or you are not and then you have sex based on that. A woman who has sex with me on the first date is being honest about being attracted to me- she is the one who will earn my respect and attraction for respecting my time and interest in her. A woman who says things like the above is trying to barter with me, and I will start gauging whether she is worth me the hassle or not. You think placing arbitrary cost on sex is going to attract men with genuine interest to you? Good luck with that. If you have a cost, you are only going to attract buyers.

[sensible27]

Value, give and take.

[Justneedtokno]

I think it time. Mainly plus I’m a woman that is not comfortable with fucking around.

[NicoletteXO]

Hmm I didn’t read what the OP was saying in that way. I think she was saying that the man was expecting a barter … but that wasn’t how she rolls. Like, on your reading, if he paid for a more expensive dinner and gave her expensive jewellery then maybe she would consider sleeping with him on the first date. But that’s not what she’s saying at all. She’s saying, it is not a transaction. Also, to your comment “you either are attracted to someone or not and then you have sex based on that”… well, yes and no. I think physical attraction is a base necessary ingredient to want to have sex for non-transactional reasons. But just being physically attractive isn’t enough for me to want to have sex with someone. I need to be attracted to their character … and someone who feels entitled to sex (or to anything really!) or is pushy is not attractive to me. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure the OP is speaking to this. That’s not about making sex a transaction at all - to me it’s the opposite, it’s saying… you can’t “buy me”, it is whether I am attracted to your whole being (including your character) that determines whether I want to sleep with you”.

[Justneedtokno]

I believe it’s more than money I’ve think it’s worth commitment at least and no it’s not transactional but a give-and-take is yes can you give me a commitment then I can give you mean like or just go fuck around with somebody else they’re like stuff like that

[BossThe2nd]

@NicoletteXO Yeah, except. In another post on here where someone suggested going dutch so that nobody would feel they owe either anything (as should be the really the standard by now) she replied, I quote: "Well then is it considered a date or are you just friends?" You see OP does expect to be paid for on a date, she absolutely is making herself into a transaction.

[Justneedtokno]

I just feel like he wanted some thing that I didn’t want especially not right away. And like I said I can pay for my own meal I think it’s just bigger than a meal. He can also go to Las Vegas in by sex or find a good corner

[BossThe2nd]

Yeah, blah blah. "I wired in the old ways. If you want to pursue someone with a romantic ending in mind then why wouldn’t you spend on that person. I think after a few dates I wouldn’t mind spending for you. I just don’t think you would like me. It’s the old saying where a man doesn’t love some thing unless he puts his money in it. " If you expect men to PAY for you, don't be mad that men will expect you to put out. Pay for your own shit and treat men as equals who are seeing you on equal terms, and they will stop seeing you as a transaction as well.

[NicoletteXO]

Hmm… this is interesting. So… personally in general I also find the ‘going Dutch’ thing super unattractive. Now … does this mean I feel ‘entitled’ to be paid for? No. If he doesn’t pay, that’s his choice. But it means he demonstrates he probably does not hold values that I find attractive. In general, the kind of man I want to sleep with is both a man I have sexual chemistry with, and one who demonstrates characteristics that would make him ‘mate worthy’ in the longer term. Men and women are biologically different. Let’s face it, there is a reason why women in general don’t lust over super scrawny men who can’t hardly support themselves let alone anyone else, physically, emotionally or financially. Biologically, we are encoded to know that when we sleep with a man there is a chance we’ll get pregnant (even if we use BC and have no intention for it). That means, most women will be attracted to a man who - in the event that she does get pregnant and is in the most vulnerable state possible - is capable of supporting the process at least to some degree, while she literally creates his child out of her body. A man who offers to pay for a date shows at least some capacity to support and be there for a woman in this way. So the paying for the date is not an “I pay you, give sex” transaction… but a gesture to show willingness and capacity to protect and provide. It’s a demonstration of character. You might consider this entitlement, but I’d consider it vetting. Just as I think a man should vet a woman for qualities that he perceives are important for him. I will put a caveat on this and say the ‘just paying for a date’ is not the main issue here. I remember I dated a man once who quit his government job to start his own business. He would take me out to dinner less frequently than other men - because honestly I think he was just a bit strapped at the time! -but that didn’t matter, because he would do other things that demonstrated that ‘provide and protect’ instinct.

[BossThe2nd]

Yeah, we will have to disagree here. I would not be in a relationship with a woman who finds it "horribly unattractive" to go dutch. That, I find horribly unattractive of a thing for a woman to say in any imaginable circumstance. It's 2021, relationships are equal partnership whether in practical or emotional terms. A man should not have to provide things to a woman to be deemed adequate, especially not things of concrete monetary value that should be well within a woman's own power to earn to an equal extent. I don't believe those men are "showing you their character" by spending their money on you. They are part trying to validate their fragile sense of masculinity birthed by the regressive social norms hammered into their head by their mama and papa and, in actually a much bigger part, really just putting up with said ancient social norms in hopes to get their dick wet. Think what you will, but I believe those are exactly the kind of men who feel entitled to sex from women in exchange for a several hundred dollar dinner.

[JustinTheGreat]

I’m pretty sure OP was trying to say the exact opposite of that. She’s saying that men expect sex as a “thank you” for taking them out and paying for their meal. She’s saying men are the ones who expect sex as a transaction

[NicoletteXO]

BossThe2nd... there are other things I've seen you post on GaG that I think have been really insightful and cool. But this is one I guess where we'll just have to agree to disagree. You say - "It's 2021, relationships are equal partnership whether in practical or emotional terms. A man should not have to provide things to a woman to be deemed adequate, especially not things of concrete monetary value that should be well within a woman's own power to earn to an equal extent." Yes, but until a man is at equal risk of pregnancy to a woman, then we will never be entirely in the same position when dating.

[NicoletteXO]

I've had de facto relationships in my younger years where it was more like 50% / 50% financially... and I just always felt like I was his mother, maid and therapist combined. I was doing more housework, and all the things which made our home beautiful, but paying 50% of the financial costs. Ultimately, those men left me with a sense that they were immature and lacking ambition. Now, I am not saying you are like this; maybe you expect 50/ 50 financials but would never dream of allowing your woman to shoulder more than 50% of the housework. If that is the case, then fair enough, but you must understand that you are in the vast minority of men, and statistics bear this out. I have also been in a long term de facto relationship with a man who took care of quite a lot more than 50% of the finances (I'd say 80% ish)... he did about 10-20% of the housework (like if I was unwell or something). But overall, the financial breakdown was so much more healthy for me... it meant I was freed up to do beautiful things like make his mother's favorite cake for when she came to visit us... which encouraged beautiful feelings and connections. That's just a small example, but unlike in my 50/50 financial relationships, where I felt exhausted all the time and experienced a sense of diminishing respect for my partner to the point that I ended the relationships... with this I just felt increasing respect for him. We never argued about silly things like housework, and I always kept our home spotless and was happy to entertain all of his friends with a beautiful meal, whenever. It was just gracious living. He was also extremely happy with it. I see so many "modern" couples just constantly bickering and resentful. I think this could be avoided. Anyway, different strokes for different folks! Whatever works for people is the best arrangement.

[NicoletteXO]

Just to reclarify my position. When dating I definitely think it's poor form to feel entitled to anything from anyone (sex or dinner, doesn't matter!)... So, unlike one of the dudes the OP described, who was pestering her for sex, and straight up said, on the first day they met: "why won't you sleep with me when I paid for the date?"... unlike that, if a man didn't offer to pay, I wouldn't give him any shit about it, I wouldn't demand anything. I would just observe that (unless there was some clear reason why he couldn't), we are not aligned in values. I'd be gracious, and just thank him for the evening, but let him know I didn't wish to pursue things further. Like I said - the impetus here is vetting, not entitlement. I definitely think nobody should act entitled, male or female.

[BossThe2nd]

@NicoletteXO No, I understand, you are a traditional woman with conservative views on gender roles and social norms. I'm none of that and don't want any of that in my own relationships (not sure what gave you the impression that I do, if anything), but that's besides the point. My point is that if a woman with regressive views is looking for a like-minded partner, he is bound to have equally regressive expectations. If a woman wants to be "provided for" like in the "good old days" she ought to accept that the men she is interested in will expect services in return like in the "good old days"- services such as being his personal maid or a prostitute. Because those are very much the expectations levied upon traditional women by men with traditional views. If you require you to be paid for like the OP, if you accept several hundred dollar dinner offers from strangers, you are establishing that you view relationships as transactional and it's perfectly fair for the men to expect things in return. "So, unlike one of the dudes the OP described, who was pestering her for sex, and straight up said, on the first day they met: "why won't you sleep with me when I paid for the date?"... unlike that, if a man didn't offer to pay, I wouldn't give him any shit about it," Yeah, because in that scenario you haven't provided the man with anything that he should pay you in exchange for.. so you can't have any grounds to expect it. If you *accept* his several hundred dollar dinner offer you are *taking* and he has the grounds to *expect* things in return. And if you don't provide those things, yes of course he will feel cheated, because you took from him and gave nothing in return.

[BossThe2nd]

Yeah, sure, it's "vetoing" and "proving their ability to provide", lol. But that's not how the men view it, they simply view you as a buyable woman, that's why they expect sex in return. And you made them think that with your behavior and acceptance of their offers. As I said previously, stop placing cost on yourself, and then you will stop meeting men who are out there to shop.

[NicoletteXO]

Interesting perspective. I've personally found the opposite. In my experience, it is the men who offer to pay for dates etc. and are very generous, who are also extremely respectful and honourable. They definitely have not pressured me for sex - these men are too classy, and have way too much dignity to do that. My last example was my last relationship - he was an absolute gentleman right from the get-go. Would never let me pay for a thing. He wanted to marry me, and I ended up getting pregnant last year - unfortunately I had a miscarriage, and after that we ended things for a number of reasons. But the point here is - the way that he treated me had me me trust him and open to him, in a way that was profound and sincere. Because the way he treated me was profound and sincere.

[NicoletteXO]

Honestly, I feel a little sad reading your response. To your point: "If you *accept* his several hundred dollar dinner offer you are *taking* and he has the grounds to *expect* things in return. And if you don't provide those things, yes of course he will feel cheated, because you took from him and gave nothing in return." The idea that men will get nothing in return if a woman doesn't sleep with him on the first date is just not the case. Like, if I want a rose to bloom, I don't go to my garden and put down the water and fertilizer, then stomp on the bud because it didn't bloom that very day. It takes time and patience if you want something of great beauty and value. It sounds like you don't have that. When a woman sincerely opens herself to a man, it's a big deal. If you are sleeping with late teens and early 20s who think differently, whatever - I did back then too. Because I was not as mature. It's funny that you think I am regressive, as I am probably one of the more transgressive people you'll meet (and not transgressive in the "I'm gonna pierce my face and dye my hair blue coz I hate my Mum" kinda way - I mean genuinely transgressive). I'm highly qualified entrepreneur and I can pay my own way. But this is beyond money. This is about class and gracious relations between a man and a woman. I was happy to leave this as an "agree to disagree" situation. A shame you decided to start the pot shots.

[BossThe2nd]

@NicoletteXO Good, for you. I almost puked, though. To me a woman who vets a man based on their ability to spend money on her is nothing more than a prostitute. I'd rather just pay a skinny and hot 19 year old sugar baby than a woman who allegedly appreciates me for "things" such as "not letting her pay for a thing". Fucking yuck.

[NicoletteXO]

Super sad. These men know something about true masculinity that you don't.

[NicoletteXO]

And what a strange thing to say - "allegedly appreciates". For me, it is very sincere. Sounds like you have been jilted, and are now projecting your bitterness onto the entire female population.

[BossThe2nd]

You are entitled to that garbage way of thinking. I prefer women who like me for me not for my ability to spend money on them. Good day to you.

[NicoletteXO]

Sound like a 14 year old dude mentality. I have appreciated all my partners for them. I didn't want them for their money. But I did want them for their generosity of heart. That shows me who they are at a deeper level, and it means I know I will not be taken advantage of when I also give them my generosity of heart. Here's an example: My longest de facto relationship was with a man who was wealthy within his own right, but also belonged to an extremely wealthy family - definite 1%-ers. We lived together for almost a decade. He brought me flowers every single week. I would bake for him and his family, I edited his PhD thesis over the 7 years it took him to complete it... we were there for each other. When I decided to break it off with him, if I was in it for anything other than 'him' I could have taken him to the cleaners. While I could have had millions, I didn't ask for a cent. Why? Because that would have been wrong (in my mind). The generosity we shared during our relationship was more than enough, and I loved him for him. I still have nothing but respect in my heart for this man. To assume that someone doesn't appreciate a man for who he is simply because he is generous is flat out wrong.

[Justneedtokno]

See that’s where you’re wrong I wouldn’t mind paying for a date after the third one I just have to know you really like me

[Justneedtokno]

I know it’s the old-school way of thinking but oh well you could get a kiss after the date if it goes well

[BossThe2nd]

No, I'm not projecting anything at the "entire female population". I'm being derisive of your garbage conservative values specifically. They are plenty of amazing, egalitarian women who believe in relationships being two-way streets the same way I do who appreciate me the way I wish to be appreciated. Women who don't want men to pay for them because they don't think relationships are about that. I don't want to be appreciated for how much money I spend on a woman, that notion not only insults me personally but it undermines what I think the very point of a relationship is. A woman like that will never make me feel valued.

[BossThe2nd]

@NicoletteXO If you want to know. I have no issue spending money on a woman- a woman who I feel deserves it and appreciates it. I have done so in all my relationship and I will keep doing it in the future. But I'm not going to do it for a woman who feels entitled to it on the first date and bases the viability of our future interaction on it solely. That's not gratitude, that's entitlement. A total stranger has no right to my generosity, she has to first prove herself equally to me that she is worth any of my provisions.

[NicoletteXO]

So... what do you think "the point of a relationship is" then?

[NicoletteXO]

And "That's not gratitude, that's entitlement. A total stranger has no right to my generosity, she has to first prove herself equally to me that she is worth any of my provisions." You do realize that even this "stranger" likely spent a good few hours getting herself ready for you for that date. It simply costs more time and money for a well presented woman to rock up to a date than it does for a well presented man. Simply by turning up, the vast majority of well-presented women will have already invested at least a couple of hundred bucks into it. Now, I am not of the mentality that this is about 'tit for tat'... but I think - even if you are strangers - if a woman if going to invest a lot into a man, it is courteous of him to do the same. Obviously, he makes that choice, which is why I say... I wouldn't give him any shit if he didn't pay, I'd just recognize that this was the kind of relationship where I'd end up investing a lot more than him, which is not something that is healthy.

[BossThe2nd]

@NicoletteXO I have no expectation for a woman to spend a bunch of money upfront on making herself look better to demonstrate her "investment" in me. If she thinks that way, that's her own fault, it's of no benefit to me. If a lady was to show up looking like death in a sweaty tank top without any make up on because she just left a gym session, I wouldn't say "things aren't going to work out between us because she clearly won't put equal amount of investment". That would be ridiculous and shallow. And, again, I don't think that's what dating and relationships should be about. But you are right, it's all about vetting those with incompatible beliefs. I'm not interested in a traditional relationship and thus I don't have traditional expectations.

[NicoletteXO]

Yup cool. We come back to 'agree to disagree'. Personally, I'd rather live my life with a partner who makes an effort to present themselves well and doesn't smell like death most of the time (obviously we are all human and sweat and farts happen from time to time). As I said, I think this is just gracious living. But if that doesn't matter to you, then que sera sera!

[ohshee]

To be honest with you yes I do LMAO yes if I don't have it then I'll just feel terrible that I let you down I feel guilty if I don't do it LOL LOL LOL

[Savage_Wisdom]

I have no respect for a woman who puts out on the first date. Women should have more self respect.

[NicoletteXO]

How did you twist this question into a way to disrespect women? The OP is saying the men are the ones putting pressure for this. Why not have disrespect for that?

[Savage_Wisdom]

Not all women, just the ones who feel the need to be sluts. Make no mistake, I feel that men who try to pressure women into this are assholes. I hold a great ammout of respect for women who refuse to jump straight to the sex from the get go, but if a woman has so little self respect that she is willing to put out after just a single date, why should I respect her more than she respects herself?

[NicoletteXO]

The topic of this piece is not slutty women. Quite the opposite. Not sure why the need for a diatribe about it, but ok.

[Justneedtokno]

@NicoletteXO I agree the main point of this is exactly what you just stated. I’m not saying that some women don’t list after some men and all that. I’m just saying don’t make an expectation that all women want to do this. And especially not for a simple meal that I can pay for myself. I even made a comment about sexually liberated women

[Savage_Wisdom]

@NicoletteXO Then let me put it simpler. While it is true that a fair amount of responsibility in this type of situation lies with the person applying pressure, the woman still has to give consent, or else we're talking about rape. Should not the concenter be burdend with a fair amount of responsibility as well? I don't mean to alleviate the responsibility of assholes who demand sex, but "it takes two to tango" as they say.

[NicoletteXO]

Yeah we get it. But this is irrelevant to this topic.

[StormyWinter]

Little bit harsh, I had sex on the first date, we're still together 20 years later

[NicoletteXO]

Probably because you don’t have freaky sexual hang ups and a faux moralistic attitude. Good for you 😁

[Shizunk]

I realize that I am on the conservative end of the spectrum and so I think sex on the third date is way too early, but I thought people have some sense of natural progression anyway. Reading some of the filth here in comments makes me kind of worried about the future of our civilization. At least people are being honest online I guess, but If I don't even have to be a woman to be disgusted by the way some men here seem to think. I don't even expect people to give up casual sex, but I didn't realize how that mindset changes the dating environment. Suddenly sex is not a nice bonus on top, it seems it is the entire reason to interact with women. Just pay a hooker then, such men should seriously not be going on dates.

[Spookydood]

Sex isn't usually an expectation on the first date, or even a couple dates. That being said, make sure you point shit like that out to guys you talk to so they know you're defensive and feeling offended so they can make other plans.

[Lionman95]

Because they are self centered and need that as assurance that they are doing well. They´ve seen or heard of other guys that it´s ok to ask for sex on the first date. For them sex is a necessary part of dating and manhood.

[GoldenCage]

I always offer to pay some say okay but majority refuse. I'm okay with both I don't care.

[Diodoro]

While I agree, and any of my guy friends I tell them not to spend any money unless it's truly coming out of the kindness of their heart and not some form of trying to buy affection, time or attention of a female.

The flip side of that is that you as a woman should have the character to pay for yourself if you have no intention of having relations with that man.

Quality idea that could help you avoid this situation ever happening. Pay for yourself until sex happens.

Your time is valuable. His time is valuable. He doesn't owe you free dates to get to know eachother. So rather than complain when you're not handling your side of it. How about you just have some character and handle your side of it.

[Ashalia]

So once a Woman is willing to sleep with a man he should pay? This is retarded thinking that pretty much implies all women are whores. If you want to take someone out on a date there is no obligation just because you choose to pay. I paid for many "dates" and likewise have had many guys pay to "take me out to dinner or drinks" no obligation was implied physically or emotionally

[Diodoro]

@Ashalia I'm really just suggesting that a girl instead of complaining about a situation, take control of her life and actually do something about it. And presenting an example of something that she could do to avoid this problem entirely The problem is, girls like yourself are completely comfortable with getting a lot of free shit from guys and you don't really want to consider the other genders position. You like getting free stuff. Feels nice. You don't want that to stop. It actually doesn't benefit you to do the good character, good human thing by declining dates/gifts from guys you know that you never want to sleep with who are offering those things with intentions you are very very aware of from the beginning. I've had girls offer me gifts in the past aswell with the intention of gaining my favor. Girls that wanted to date me/be with me. And sadly I didn't always say no. Even had one girls friend ask if I was interested in her friend and told her know. Which led to the girl being angry with me because she had given me this or that... kinda like some guys act after spending money on dates with girls that don't sleep with them. I never asked her for those things. But I knew the intent behind it and I should have declined. Similarly girls should do the same. And you kinda know that already deep down. But you don't want to because again it benefits you. Problem is you also want to complain about guys getting mad when sex doesn't happen. Can't do both girly

[Diodoro]

@Ashalia if you were talking to your father about a guy who is giving you gifts for no reason or inviting you on dates, and you told your dad that you weren't interested in the guy. Would your dad tell you that oh well that's on the guy, or more likely tell you that you shouldn't lead the guy on and let him down softly

[Ashalia]

You do not know me so never presume. And what's angering everyone is that presumption instead of analyzing the situation

[Ashalia]

Did you not read I pay for dates also?

[Ashalia]

Any "date" I go on or "gift" either given or received is without obligation to more of anything and it's wrong of humans or society to try and impose obligation on something that by it's pure nature is nonobligotory. "Gift" in definition is something freely given

[Ashalia]

He'd say it was my business. More likely to give me advice on safe sex if it was my choice. I'm 35 married once been with 2 guys. I'm no prude though. But men who expect a free "ride" because they bought me dinner are morons. And women who give into that perpetuate this ongoing battle in understanding the opposite sex. If you step back and put yourself in the position of the other person wholly and not oh yeah sure I'd bang her because I'm a man... but truly think about how you would feel as a woman in her position give me your opinion and I'll listen

[Diodoro]

@Ashalia full disclosure I don't remember reading the part about you paying for dates sometimes as well. That's my mistake. So I apologize for over presuming that was my bad. To be fair though you did suggest I was implying that girls are almost whores inside of two sentences, when I was simply posing an idea to avoid a very common situation that girl's my face. At least my thing was at least an attempt to help. Yours was just lashing out. I did react poorly to it so I still apologize for my part. I'm just saying you can't come in hot and then get upset when you get a little bit back

[Diodoro]

@Ashalia I said from the outset. Girls have no obligation. I'm merely saying that girls are also aware when something is given or offered with expectation and not just out of the goodness of their heart. And many girls far too often accepted anyways, then go on to complain about it when they kind of knew beforehand. You don't have the right to do both

[Ashalia]

You should read what I just posted. And girls are naturally more giving without expectations than men who generally (please don't take a general comment or stereotype as meaning every guy or girl) expect reciprocation

[Ashalia]

Ok lol I wasn't hot I was trying to point out the other end. If a guy chooses to pay, which trust me it can be difficult to insist on paying your share as a girl, it never entitles him to sex. Or even the thought of it. Now if I'm passionate about the subject you ought to read some of the trash posted on this thread and understand that in a general (GENERAL) sense women deal with this frequently in varying forms. This is just a tad more complicated. For example I was 14 years old and proposisioned for sex while walking to the gradeschool to pick my 9yr old brother up. The guy called me a whore for saying no and being horrified

[NicoletteXO]

Diadoro... you've raised a point, which I don't think anyone would disagree with - which is that, if you are not remotely sexually interested in a man, then you should not continue to accept gifts or lavish dinners from him. I think that's fine. But I have no idea why you've raised this, since that is not the point of the initial question - which is simply, "why do some guys feel like you owe them sex after one date?" I could be extremely attracted to a man, and sincerely open to exploring the connection - with the hope that it may lead to an ongoing relationship including great sex. But that doesn't mean I am obligated to hop in the sack the same evening I meet him, just because he paid for dinner. The fact that a woman doesn't want to have sex the first day you meet doesn't mean she is stringing you along. More than likely, she just wants to get to know you and establish deeper trust and connection. Flipping out that she didn't sleep with you because you paid for dinner on the first date is likely to decimate any possibility of trust and connection.

[melanieeeB]

Cause guys date for sex and girls to find love lol

[LegendaryIcon]

That's the theory out there. That girls need love to have sex and guys need sex to love. Why do people see that as such a bad thing, if it's true?

[melanieeeB]

Personally I don't like the Intention behind it. I do like sex too and sure I do think about it and all but I don't meet up with someone just cause of that. I truly want to get to know the person. Guys most of the time gave me the feeling of he is just sitting there cause he wants to fuck and I took my time to really have a conversation with the person in front of me.. in the end I talked against a wall and felt awful.

[LegendaryIcon]

Which brings up the point of.. strippers. Strippers do the EXACT same thing. They just wait until they're ready for "sex" (or in this case a lap dance half naked), but, do you see my point.. we all do it, especially when money is involved

[melanieeeB]

Yeah but my profession isn't to get paid for sex.

[Justneedtokno]

@LegendaryIcon Yeah exactly the profession is stripper and that’s her job I’m not a prostitute or escort

[LegendaryIcon]

But you get my point. You can't just assume ONLY men do it

[Justneedtokno]

@LegendaryIcon Again I said some and I’ll also said there is some women that do did you even read it