If a guy pays for an expensive dinner does he expect to get sex at the end of the night? Guys, do you get mad if nothing happens?

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the bad quality. This was the only pic from dinner and he didn't even focus it well lol

[MrOracle]

Context is everything.

Let's be real and direct here: (single, hetero) men don't take women on dates unless they want to have sex with the woman in question. If you don't understand or agree to that statement, then there's no point in any further discussion.

Given that truth, a woman has no business accepting a date with a man who she already knows she won't have sex with. If sex with that guy is out of the question, then turn down the date, no matter how nice the date itself might have been. OR, tell him that you're only interested in being friends, and that if he'd still like to go on the date, you'll happily pay for your own expenses. That's being honest and respectful.

Assuming you accept the date offered, you also need to consider who the man IS. If you're a 7/10, and he's a 9.5/10 and has other girls looking at him all night, and you go on a date with him, either you have sex with him that first night or you'll never hear from him again (and maybe he posts negative stuff about you online). You're already dating out of your league, and he's got lots of options, and he doesn't need to wait - and he won't. If you don't want to sleep with him at the end of the date, then don't go on the date.

If you are a 7/10 and the guy is a 7/10 - or you're a 5 and he's a 5 - then that guy might HOPE for sex on the first date, but he's not EXPECTING sex. What is IS expecting is that, assuming there are no SERIOUS red flags that you discover about him, that you're going to sleep with him by the 5th date at least, and hopefully more like the third*. In other words, he expects that you respect him enough to realize that sex is a normal and expected part of dating as an adult, and while he understands that you need some time to get to know him and vet him, he also needs to know that YOU understand that you can't just keep using him for dates and holding him off for weeks or months - UNLESS you are up-front with him AND you are willing to pay for your expenses on the date, and he agrees.

If you are stringing a guy along and happily letting him pay for dates, bad things are likely to happen. You might get left on the side of the road, or left at a restaurant or bar with the bill, or whatever, because you used that man and didn't respect him.

Unless you are willing to have your "dates" be walks in the park, or sitting at home watching TV and eating Taco Bell, then, YES, dates are going to be transactional. If a man is feeding you at a restaurant and entertaining you (movies, activities, etc.), driving you, and paying for incidental costs like gas and parking, transactions are happening and money is leaving his wallet - OF COURSE he's going to see those kinds of dates as transactional. If you can't accept that reality, then either ask for a no-cost date or don't accept the date in the first place.

What ISN'T okay is to use him for entertainment and dining with no intention of coming through with your end of the bargain - which means sex.

*More time/more dates can be acceptable if the girl is young (under 18) or still a virgin.

[shaysh87]

Not every guy is a pervert. You paint a very bad picture of men here.

[Wubs3000]

@shaysh87 fr I hate these weird guys in their 30s and up saying every guy only wants sex or that we can't be friends with girls. They are just lonely and way too desperate lol

[On_cloud_wine]

How do you get to know someone without dating them? Your saying give it up because it’s only fair to him because he bought dinner?

[shaysh87]

@Wubs3000 MrOracle has painted a very bad picture of men and I think it has to do with the fact that he's so jaded, pessimistic and angry. there's no light at the end of the tunnel with this guy.

[KelleyNice]

If a guy wants to win a girl, he should and usually will be willing to invest considerable time, money, and effort. Unless she is starving, a girl will not accept a date to a fancy dinner if she is not interested. Now if you you will fly her to Paris, likely she will accept because that is worth something. However, if she is not interested in the guy, she pays him back with her company and as little as possible. Sex is out of the question.

[Jamie05rhs]

@MrOracle What you said only applies to non-Christians. It does not apply to Christians. If I ask a girl out on a date, I am NOT expecting sex!! (Nor do I want it!)

[MrOracle]

@Jamie05rhs Exceptions to every rule exist - but could you really say that what I wrote isn't true of the majority of men?

[MrOracle]

@Wubs3000 I'm neither lonely or desperate, and my reply isn't about ME - it's about the mass of men in general. I can't help that you don't like what I have to say, but regardless, it's the truth for the majority of men, and it's significantly more true of the most desirable men (the men nearly all women want) - and I think you know that only too well. More average guys are more willing to wait a little while, but the most desirable guys almost never will.

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle Yea sure what you write is never about you. But every time you write something on here, its always laced with very dark undertones. It's never ever encouraging, peaceful, happy or comforting to hear. Its pretty obvious to the experienced eye that you're a miserable person who likely has suffered insurmountably in life.

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle Not all attractive guys are fuckboys. You have a very very pessimistic outlook in the world.

[MrOracle]

@shaysh87 You're talking about the exceptions - I CONSTANTLY acknowledge that a few exceptions exist. But what you NEVER talk about is the MAJORITY - which means the people you are OVERWHELMINGLY likely to encounter. Clinging to the existence of exceptions and ignoring the majority is a very common strategy among people who are desperate to deny the reality of the world - especially if that reality will negatively affect them personally.

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle They're not the majority. I've met a lot of handsome young guys that are just like normal people who want to date, not sleep around. The stereotype that handsome guys sleep around as just as false as saying all beautiful girls are stupid. Sure, hot guys tend to date women who are close to their own league in terms of looks but definitely not most of them are fuck boys. I can say this with confidence as an experienced dater. Every answer you write on GAG is centered around "sex". You even went as far as to stating that the only females that hot guys are willing to wait for sex are girls under 18. Since when has it been a common thing for a grown man over 18 to dating underage girls in hopes for sex? I don't think it happen much at all. Just because you are a pervert and wouldn't wait for sex, it does not mean that other guys won't wait for sex. Just because you as a 50 yr old man would take a 18 yr old girl as a wife, it does not mean most 50 yr olds want to do the same. In fact, most 50 yr old girls have no interest in dating 18 yr old girls. there's more to life than just sex and sleeping around. Some people marry someone they are in love with, not in lust with. Many hot guys don't sleep around and instead want to commit to 1 woman. And no, these aren't rare exceptions. Hot guys do have more opportunities to sleep around but most of them do want to commit to 1 person, get married and have a family.

[Wubs3000]

@MrOracle you have a very sad outlook on life if you think all the good men are just out for sex all the time.

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle And its very sad how you say that a man who looks like a 9/10 cannot be in love with a woman who looks like a 7/10. He must be using her for sex. There could be no other reason why he is with her. This proves a lot about your own mentality towards the world. The definition of love and human connection simply does not exist in your vocabulary. you sound like an angry, bitter , jaded person who grew up in a broken home without a father and a mother that didn't want you.

[KelleyNice]

@shaysh87 I agree with all you said except wanting to date a girl under 18 does not make him a pervert. Even if he wanted to date me (he couldn't because I wouldn't), in itself, that wouldn't make him a pervert because through out all of human history men have married girls my and still do in a few countries. However, there is a definition: Hebephilia is defined as individuals with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in 11- to 14-year-old pubescents.

[shaysh87]

@KelleyNice sweetie, you're only 13 years old. Just wait till you are 23, then you will understand why its so wrong for a grown man to be dating a child. You don't know enough about the world yet.

[KelleyNice]

@shaysh87 You have been my age. I have never been you age so it makes since that know far more about how a girl my age thinks than I could know about how an adult woman thinks. And, you may know something about men that I don't. However, I read a lot so it seems like I know all about men, but maybe I don't.

[Wubs3000]

@KelleyNice Him trying to date you is like you trying to set up a date with a baby who is destined to be born in 2050. Both are roughly 40 year age gaps.

[On_cloud_wine]

@Wubs3000 wtf did you just say

[MrOracle]

@shaysh87 I love the personal attacks and projections, but you missed each point by a mile. None of this is about ME or what *I* personally think or do. Rather, it's what I've OBSERVED and heard and overheard from thousands of men and women over 35 years or so of being in social situations, and talking to people about relationships. Disagree with me if you wish, and ignore me at your peril. It won't cost me anything, but it might cost those who don't listen.

[Wubs3000]

@On_cloud_wine Honestly I have no clue I was just trying to say that like he was 40 when she was born.

[MrOracle]

@On_cloud_wine You can do "no cost dates" - go for a walk, or just hang out somewhere, without spending the guy's money. Do that for as long as you like. But when you start demanding DATES - i. e., him paying to feed and entertain you, you are getting benefits at his expense, and you should therefore expect that he's going to want benefits in return. Women don't do things by choice unless they get some benefit in return, so why do you think men should?

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle You were the same guy I spoke to last time who wasn't even aware that vast majority of men couldn't afford housewives anymore. You continued to insist until you realized you've made a mistake. In our last conversation, you kept insisting that all men only married housewives. You said all men would prefer to stay single than marry a career woman. But you were too clueless to realize that the vast majority of men cannot afford to have housewives anymore. Vast majority of wives in the US do work jobs. There is no truth to anything you say. You're just ranting and projecting your own anger, frustrations and desires onto others.

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle [You can do "no cost dates" - go for a walk, or just hang out somewhere, without spending the guy's money] Just because you want to go for a no cost date because you don't believe women are worth spending money on, it does not mean all guys would do the same. Some guys actually have the ability to fall in love, unlike you. You don't understand love which is why you would never ever spend on a woman.

[On_cloud_wine]

@shaysh87 Amen sista! 🙌

[MrOracle]

@shaysh87 Wow, you do a great job of putting words in my mouth, but I bet you can't produce any quotes where I've said those things. And as I've said repeatedly, this IS NOT ABOUT ME. Assume I'm married, or gay, or dead, or whatever helps you look past ME and talk about what we're talking about, which is MEN IN GENERAL. When I'm talking about myself, I'll say so specifically.

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle I think there is already insurmoutanble proof that everything you say IS ABOUT YOU. You think that just because you would do something, then it means every other man will following along. You think that just because you only want to marry a housewief, then it means all men rather stay single than to marry a career woman. You just think that just because if you became a hot guy, you would just sleep around and never marry. Then it means almost all other hot guys will do just the same. You don't seem to have any understanding how the real-world works. You just like to rant, project your own anger, frustrations, and your own desires on how the world should on onto others. you even have 13-14 yr old kids on here who know better than you.

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle You're a very nasty, despicable human being. And its very pretty obvious that you don't have a social life. I know you're the type of guy who hides in his room on weekends and dreams about misogyny all day.

[Wubs3000]

@shaysh87 Goddamn go off you are ruthless lmao. Go for the heart

[MrOracle]

@shaysh87 When you can't argue against my points, you just attack me personally instead. Do you not realize that you are telegraphing to everyone that you've lost the argument? I don't care about the personal attacks - knock yourself out - but all you can do is make baseless claims with no evidence, no data, and nothing but hurt feelings. That's sad.

[Jamie05rhs]

@shaysh87 What he says isn't supposed to be comfortable to here. He mostly speaks the truth (though he's off on a few things here or there.). And the truth is uncomfortable.

[shaysh87]

@Jamie05rhs he doesn't speak the truth. I know because I'm an experienced dater. You're not.

[shaysh87]

@Jamie05rhs what he actually does is to project his own frustrations, anger, desires onto others by ranting and then using one sided truths to support his rants. In other times, he wouldn't even have any "one sided truths" to back himself up. I've spoken to him many times on GAG. Trust me, I know this guy.

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle I have spoken to you for many times on here. In one of our previous conversations, you stated that 30 something yr old women cannot have kids without IVF Then in a subsequent conversation a few months later, you said that men only wanted to marry housewives and rather stay single than to marry a career woman. You said that vast majority of men are no longer getting married nowadays because there are wayy too many career women walking around. And right now, you're implying that a woman should not accept a meal from a man unless she is willing to have sex with him on the first date. there's nothing about you that is objective and accurate. You're just a very pessimistic, dark person who gets a high from hating on women. there's nothing positive you've ever said about women on here.

[shaysh87]

@jamie05rhs why would I take advice from a man who claims that a 30 yr old women cannot give birth without IVF? why would I take advice from a man who implies that if a man buys a woman a meal , then he must deserve sex? why would I take advice from a man who claims that he would marry an 18 yr old girl by the time he hits 50? why would I take advice from a man who claims that vast majority of men would rather stay single than to marry a career woman, while being completely unaware of the fact that vast majority of men actually can't even afford a housewife nowadays? does this sound like a guy who is trustworthy and has people's best interests in mind?

[shaysh87]

@MrOracle And here's the thing I notice about you: you pick your words extremely carefully (to disguise your misogyny). Before every long misogynistic rant, you make sure you have plenty of one-sided truths to back yourself up. But it's just a one-sided truth, which means though they may be true. But then there are also plenty of other factors that are in the equation that you're intentionally ignoring. But you also have slip ups where you accidently say things that reveal your true nature and secret intentions. When someone accuses you of things you secretly know are true, your favorite term that you love throwing at others is "projection". Hunny, I dont know of anyone who projects more than you on GAG.

[Jamie05rhs]

@shaysh87 He's really not that bad of a dude. Not nearly as bad as you make him out to be. There are a lot of guys on this website who are MUCH more deserving of your attacks.

[Jamie05rhs]

@shaysh87 You're an "experienced dater," eh? Well, how's that working out for you? Are you married yet?

[shaysh87]

@Jamie05rhs are you still mad over the fact that you lost the argument with me over the fact that most men want to have kids?

[Wubs3000]

@Jamie05rhs You are older than her and single wym

[Marianna546]

weelll that was interesting...

[Marianna546]

@MrOracle hmmm I don't know really..

[Marianna546]

But just because you consider someone a 7 doesn't mean they are a seven to someone else..

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 Who fuck are you? Seriously you are miserable loser with absolutely nothing worth imp in your life, you are 32 single who can't even hold a relationship for long and that's why you are experienced dater. Why are you trying to represent men? You are woman of lowest possibly quality (bad mouth and trash looking) otherwise someone would have already put a ring on your finger but no you are "EXPERIENCED DATER" and what ever shit you have tried to state here, is your fucking imagination of what man wants and do, it has got absolutely nothing to do with reality and this is the funniest shit I have read in long time. Woman trying to argue with person, what he say he wants is not true, but what She states is what he actually wants" No man worth something gives a fuck about what woman thinks a perfect man should be or give a shit bout their opinion at things that don't concern their Job. What he said is bitter truth with few hiccups, He is 50 from old age and that's why he gives some lenity to trash customs like "DOMESTIC SLAVERY AND ECONOMIC SUICIDE" known as marriage, my generation and we don't ! Modern dating is simple transaction, where I pay and you open your legs to pay back ! If you don't then you are out and that's the whole reality of modern men... It was always been like this and every men that achieved success in life in old times like Kings, traders and bureaucrats were following this template around different civilizations. Even now look at successful men like Elon Musk, Bill gates and one's that have fallen for woman trap like Johnny Depp have suffered greatly from their trash opinions.

[Marianna546]

@AlphaGhost Look... psychologists think a different way... at least the psychologist i know he has many man haters but he has helped tons of women. Also i think you are being a bit hard on her..

[AlphaGhost]

@Marianna546 No I have been very lenient on her. She have tried to quote successful men here too... I am 6 feet up, 8+ inches down, with high 6's in the bag (start of my MD career) and with 8-9 on physical attractiveness matrix. I will only have relationship with woman of at least my equal stature if not better and other lower quality woman are just pass time entertainment (harsh bitter truth) to me. Secondly She have not raised a single point worth considering nor She has supported her non-existent arguments with evidence and right now, its like barking dog to me. I am MD) doctor) and the She is quoting him saying majority of woman above 30 can have kids IVF and I don't know his whole arguments but he is not wrong, Its Medical fact woman fertility decreases after age of 30 and once you turn 36, your chance of conceiving naturally is halved compared to your chance at 20 years of age. At the age of 41, this chance falls to just 4%. That’s the success rate for couples per month of trying when the female is aged 41 to 42... its finished by 45. but that's one part of the problem sperm count in male is US/White race is extremely low, Volume: 1.5 mL (95% CI: 1.4–1.7) Sperm concentration: 15 million spermatozoa/mL (95% CI: 12–16) Total sperm number: 39 million spermatozoa per ejaculate (95% CI: 33–46) Morphology: 4% normal forms (95% CI: 3–4), using “strict” Tygerberg method[33] Vitality: 58% live (95% CI: 55–63) Progressive motility: 32% (95% CI: 31–34) Total (progressive + nonprogressive motility): 40% (95% CI: 38–42) Coupled with female low fertility rate in US and natural fertility regression over the age... what he said is not false either and for example 10% of couples in US are infertile.

[Marianna546]

@AlphaGhost you are really so attractive? can you message me for proof? i am very curious to know your looks (not down there though lol)

[AlphaGhost]

@Marianna546 my G. F uses this account too and I love my peace, so no but I will give you the reason I am from the race (Zayn Malik) which white chicks consider attractive, which gives me unfair advantage over other men.

[Marianna546]

@AlphaGhost Ohh Zayn is hot hahaha

[AlphaGhost]

@Marianna546 That's why I can afford to be dick and bluntly state the truth cuz I have way more than what I really want and secondly its disrespectful to her to send or receive picks of any kind.

[Marianna546]

@AlphaGhost yeah true..

[AlphaGhost]

@Marianna546 I will respect your opinion and he is not everybody's cup of tea

[Marianna546]

@AlphaGhost haha okay then :)

[Jamie05rhs]

@Shaysh87 You did not win that debate. I crushed you, honey.

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost Funny thing is... why are you so angry? You acted as if i burned your house down. What do you have against 32 yr old women? By the way im 26, not 32. you're miserable and attacking others because you have nothing good happening in your life

[shaysh87]

@Jamie05rhs You were friendly with me all along until we had that debate. Since then you were never nice to me Maybe the truth was just too hard for you to bear

[shaysh87]

@Marianna546 Have you noticed how much hate and negativity these men project onto others? Only miserable people who live painful lives will harbor such intense hostility on others

[Jamie05rhs]

@shaysh87 I am still friendly with you. I love you! 🧡. You are my favorite sparring partner! 🤗

[shaysh87]

@Jamie05rhs I thought you were better ans more mature than the mysognists on here but i was wrong. You just know how to put on a better first impression but deep down on the inside, you're just the same as all of them

[Wubs3000]

@AlphaGhost I'm sure some super high quality men like you are assholes and just use women for entertainment (like you said) but you can't make a blanket statement with that or use it to prove that all men just want sex when paying for dinner.

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost when you have a 14 yr old boy who has more common sense than you.

[Marianna546]

@shaysh87 hahha i agree 100%

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 then that's another lie (age) cuz your profile says otherwise (31) and I highly doubt any woman will increase her age to cat fish, its usually the opposite. again you have not raised a single valid point and is still barking... cuz that's what you are and can only do. I suspect you are even blind too along with mental insanity cuz you have not read, what I save said and what ever you are accusing me of is what you are doing here right now. You came here and started attacking people for speaking the truth and you tried to speak for all men, to MEN like we don't know what we want... READ BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH AGAIN. "Miserable in life and nothing good happening in life" Did you even fucking read what I have wrote? I more than what your 7 gen had made in their life time Darling? this shit is funny... on the serious note If you need help I can make some calls we can arrange mental asylum for you, medical science has progressed far and I am pretty sure there is cure for your condition. You are literally accusing people of what you are doing here and saying Men don't know what they need" again if you don't have anything BETTER TO SAY, stop BARKING and like my fellow comrade said insulting without reason only shows your defeat.

[AlphaGhost]

@Wubs3000 loser first make it then come and talk to me and let me give you some advice, "Ass licking woman will never get you anywhere in life and even if you land a relationship, she will leave you moment better option walks in" Religion, social status, and property are all sources of power and authority which one man has, to control the liberty of another. I don't give a F about your useless opinion cuz you are kid living in MOMIE's basement... move out, make a name for yourself and try to come at my lvl, then we will talk about life SOYE BOY !

[DaveJord]

Okay everyone what @MrOracle said is basically true with a lot unessacassary details thrown in... but he basically told you all the truth. Guys don't date women in general that they don't want sex from, or to have sex with. So the question is when does a guy start to expect sex? The basic rule for most guys is some where between after 3rd date and 5th date, especially if he's spending a lot of money on expensive dinners. He's not doing it out of the kindness of his heart. All that cash isn't charitable donations, its not like he can write that off at the end of year onnhis taxs. As a women you have some responsibility depending on the circumstances as well. If your dating a guy who's spending that type of money on you when you know by the 3rd to 5th date your not going to have sex with him... well you need to make sure he understands that fact. All the 9/10 or 7/10 bull is just that bull. Yes looks matter in dating and maybe better looking people have higher expectations. I don't do expensive dinner with women until after the 3rd or 5th date. It doesn't matter to me if she's a 5/10 or 10/10, a women is a women. If we got to the 3rd date its because I want to date her, and dating to me includes sex at some piont. I make $120,000.00 a year, but I am not spending money on a women until I am certain that we match well and are 100% compatible with each other. Yup for me that means sex and all. And I am entitled to like what like,, and want what I want out of a relationship. Doesn't mean I am not in it for long run or right reasons. I have dated a lot of women, and most women understand these facts. Which why most people don't get past the second date with each other. Nothing irritates a guy more then putting out all that money trying to romance a women who doesn't put out. You do feel cheated after multiple expensive dates, and no sex or girlfriend. But no I don't think guys by and large expect sex 9n the first date.

[Wubs3000]

@AlphaGhost I dont know how tf you expect me to be 6'4, moving out with my own place, and have 6 digits in my bank account by age 14. You're right I don't have all the aspects you have but its understandable because of my age. I have common sense though, which you don't. You do nothing to refute any points from shaysh except insult her and be a hypocrite. "YOU ARE SPEAKING FOR ALL MEN" - something that you said but you are doing the same thing right now. It doesn't matter if you are a man or a women, you can't speak for everyone based off personal experience. And your quote is utter garbage. I'm in a relationship right now but surprise, its healthy. I have trust and I love them a lot. I don't think that the moment some taller or more handsome guy comes they would leave me in a heart beat. I'm not some incel who thinks terribly of women like that are after money only. Also I know you aren't calling me a soy boy when the moment your ideology gets challenged you lash out at everyone with insults, and list all the ways you are better to "maintain" your superiority 💀

[Jamie05rhs]

@shaysh87 You're the one who attacked me first. I was nice to you and you chose to make an enemy out of a friend. That wasn't me; that was you. 🤷

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost what do you have against older women? I know why you're so full of anger. Because you're a misogynist. You hate the fact that someone is poking holes at your argument. You hate the fact that you are being called out on being a misogynist. Guess what? I'm not ashamed of hitting 33. There are 45 yr old men marrying 33 yr old women celebrities. In fact, there are more women birthing children in their 30s than in their 20s. so go fuck off misogynist.

[shaysh87]

@Jamie05rhs Understand that your hatred against me, has to do with your lack of success in your love life. It has nothing to do with me. I just stated the facts and kept rolling. Hating on me won't do you any good. Improve your life , find a woman, and you will have less hatred towards me.

[Marianna546]

@Wubs3000 I LOVE THE WAY YOU CRUSHED HIM LOL

[AlphaGhost]

@Wubs3000 Dude stop calling yourself "MAN" cuz you are not one, you are an beta trash boy living under his MoM titties, who have zero experience in life or any worth what so ever. Yet you came here and try to pock your nose in adult conversation. Just listen to every men in this thread with some experience and they are all saying the same thing, you are a CHILD bro... so go play with your toys and let me tell you something YOU ARE AN IDIOT ! We are all grown up men here and you expect us to care about opinion of Dumb minor in this conversation, that woman is LYING and you are freaking idiot, who can't even catch that... "What do you have against 32 yr old women? By the way im 26, not 32." Just open her profile and you will see her real age and guess what She pretty much accepted her lie, "Guess what? I'm not ashamed of hitting 33" Idiot what I have said is for ALL MEN, you are nothing but DUMB CHILD, there is a difference between MEN and KIDs like there is Difference between, MALE and MEN and WOMAN and Female. Your own parents won't give a F about your opinion regarding adult stuff, but I suspect you are child of a single mother and it shows. So go fucking grow up, become adult, then make your own money become MEN and then come here to talk to us.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 are you fucking idiot? Did you know what the word "Misogynist" mean? It means people that support old way of life and stuff like marriage, I called marriage DOMESTIC SALAVERY and economic suicide and don't even believe in old trash customs. What fucking poking holes in argument, you are talking about here? You have not raised a single valid point and have only lied about your age... are you dumb and THAT'S WHY YOU ARE SINGLE AND WILL ALWAYS REMAIN SERIAL DATER ! You are fucking imagining things and lose your own trash plot, You have no argument and you have not raised a single valid point or support it with evidence. You have accepted that you are single and Serial dater, who can't hold a relationship due to lack of accountability with nothing good happening in your life... and you are so desperate that you have tried to quote freaking 14 year old child. Just look at yourself pathetic loser, using middle school child opinion who don't even have any experience in life and making up shit. you claim to be 32 year old. I openly CHALLENGE YOU to QUOTE where I have said MYSOGINIST or you have raised valid point in my comments, quote me ! Lets see if you can "WALK the BARK" and support your above mentioned trash comment, you literally accepted you were lying about your age but then followed it up with another lie. Come on prove it !

[Marianna546]

@shaysh87 you are a mean person guys are right about you here

[AlphaGhost]

@Wubs3000 Kid, Ex : Slave and Emperor can't be equal and by the same logic "You and me can't be equal" You are a minor who has started dating and its probably your first G. F (which I suspect is a lie) and you are child with zero experience in life, Your opinion regarding this situation is worthless, same way sweeper opinion regarding complex nuclear reaction is worthless. If we both stand in front of crowd people will dismiss you and literally support everything I am saying, cuz I am QUALIFIED ENOUGH to talk about it. This woman tried to tell... what MEN WANT while being a FEMI-N@ZI, literally Alien telling us how to be human while having clear attempting to murder every men. @MrOracle @Jamie05rhs @DaveJord We are all men saying the same thing in different way but She is saying otherwise, and you are worthless Child who's opinion nobody in world care about regarding this stuff even your parents.

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost you sound so angry and enraged that you're about to lose your head or bite someone's head off. how miserable are you? why do you constantly feel the need to talk shit about women? maybe its because you can't get one in real life?

[Marianna546]

@shaysh87 fuck off

[KelleyNice]

@Marianna546 @MrOracle @Jamie05rhs @On_cloud_wine @shaysh87 All this fussing. What good does it do?

[AlphaGhost]

@DaveJord Bro don't waste your time in this thread, We have mentally unstable people here and I get bored in ward after patients sleep, so I am giving her attention for entertainment. She is delusional woman who love to argue with zero argument and if you value your peace move on !

[Marianna546]

@KelleyNice sorry but she is a mean person lol

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost thats fucking hilarious. because the guy who is losing his head , sounding like he's about to kill someone, is the one accusing of everyone else of being crazy. there must be something severely wrong with your life if you're so angry. Feel bad for yourself, not everyone else.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 BARK BARK BARK BARK... COME ON continue barking all that barking with zero POINT OR ARGUMENT... woman you are beneath me but I need entertainment and Netflix has not delivered on anything, Babe I am enjoying it and having laugh of my lifetime, how can someone be that delusional !

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost you're not even arguing, you're just hurling insults at everyone on here. Go back to your psych ward

[Marianna546]

@AlphaGhost lol lol

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 LET's hear a valid argument and this is for court, I am not responsible for anything this woman may do to herself... You can now continue BARKING and my shit is almost over, so tomorrow I guess after you RAISE A VALID POINT !

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 By the way, Another lie has been caught, I asked you to quote where I have said "MYSOGINIST thing" or you have raised valid argument BUT you have not answered that question. cuz there is none you are lying, just like about everything. This is your fourth lie, @marianna546 Do you know any new Tv series worth watching?

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost when have you raised a valid argument yourself? you never had a valid argument. you just came on here being butt angry for no reason hurling insults at others and hating on 32 yr old women.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 here you go, "Woman trying to argue with person, what he say he wants is not true, but what She states is what he actually wants" No man worth something gives a fuck about what woman thinks a perfect man should be or give a shit about their opinion at things that don't concern their Job." Whatever you are trying to claim men want is false cuz all the men here are claiming otherwise apart from Pseudo-Male child... This is very essence of Modern dating, Where man takes a woman on date to expect sex in return on 3rd or 7th date and if you don't provide its over after 2 dates, otherwise its not equality and other party is taking advantage of men. It also shows your lvl of commitment and seriousness about the whole ordeal. "It was always been like this and every men that achieved success in life in old times like Kings, traders and bureaucrats were following this template around different civilizations. Even now look at successful men like Elon Musk, Bill gates and one's that have fallen for woman trap like Johnny Depp have suffered greatly from their trash opinions." We have thousands of historical manuscripts and 1000's of excavated tombs of wealthy people and kings stating what I have said here... its a FACT.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 Finally I will provide you with SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that nobody in world can refute, (Open and watch graph on both papers)
American SURVEY PAPER
When it comes to dating and sex, three is the magic number for nearly half of American men. Men (47%) are nearly three times as likely as women (18%) to say that they would want to have sex within the first three dates once they began seeing someone they like.
today.yougov.com/.../sex-on-first-date-third-date-marriage-poll
British SURVEY SCIENTIFIC PAPER
Men are four times as likely as women (28% to 7%) to be prepared to sleep with someone after seeing them for the first time. By contrast, women are twice as likely as men to say they would wait until they were in love before having sex with someone (21%, compared to 9%).
yougov.co.uk/.../how-many-dates-should-you-wait-having-sex-someone

unlike you I can "WALK THE TALK" and support the argument with evidence... MEN DATE WOMAN TO HAVE SEX contrary to what you claim men want !

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost Men having higher sex drives is by no means proof that every man sleeps around or does prostitution. Because reality is, buying a woman a meal just for sex is prostitution.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 are you even human dumb? There are literally percentages with men continuously demanding woman to have sex from very start, these surveys are made after talking to 1000's of men by following proper scientific procedure. Men date woman to have sex, while woman are willing to lay after falling in love... Higher percentage means YES MEN WANT SEX BUT SOMEONE WOMAN ARE SMART ENOUGH TO CUT A BETTER DEAL like Marriage, before opening their legs. 90% even wants sex within first 4 weeks! I have never said every men is like this cuz there is always few outliers... but according to survey final motive in every relationship is sex... even people willing to wait till marriage are there for sex. THIS IS SCIENTIFIC SURVEY done by people qualified enough to talk about it, you are nothing ! 99% want sex and 1% who say otherwise is a liar. SO No you can't refute scientific facts and your opinions are worthless against survey of what men want, 2ndly there is a very FINE LINE between a lot of things in life including dating, Modern dating is Prostitution by definition cuz you are willing to open your legs for someone willing to pay for few meals but its cheap as compare to actual prostitution cuz it costs a lot more while, 3-4 meals cost 400$ but according to Google, prostitutes cost upward of 1000$. But still dating is not prostitution cuz prostitutes sleep with 10-20 men ranging from everything and they have "NO SAY" in type or quality of men, but in dating woman CHOSE MEN or They have say in what they sleep with.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 Survey represent what MEN expect in dating... not their sex drive, so don't try to distort facts... there is special portion of scientific paper known as "Discussion and conclusions" where they talk about things like this... so stop inventing facts. Paper 90% men expect sex within 4 weeks and woman want to wait till they fall in love ! If you refute Medical science, then we can send you to Ukraine I bet entire Russian army including Putin will commit suicide after talking to you for ten min.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 "Men having higher sex drives"
This is known as "Misogynist" comment cuz its false and proven otherwise by science and you should be ashamed of yourself as Modern woman before making up shit like this,
www.theatlantic.com/.../
Educate yourself... read this
www.aarp.org/.../...sire-and-gender-castleman.html

[shaysh87]

@AlphaGhost That is still not proof that vast majority of men do prostitution. Besides higher sex drive, there is also something called having "values" and the natural human need for love and affection.

[DaveJord]

@AlphaGhost IKR, this is crazy..😆 🤣 😂 👍👍

[DaveJord]

@shaysh87 Just saying guys willing to date you, are guys willing amd wanting to sleep with you. They aren't ever going to just come out and say it to your face... but dating and sex fo hand in hand. Guys who are guts looking to find someone to have sex with. Doesn't mean they don't truly care about you.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 Lol entire argument was about, Man primary motive for dating is sex and you were saying NO, its otherwise ! I proved it with scientific evidence that men want sex and they start demanding it from the 1st week. I never said Men are Prostitutes, you made that shit up and NOW you are refuting your own claim... STILL ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM. You were calling me "Misogynist" just look at yourself, demanding respect for old customs that put woman down. You have go against everything you have said upto this point, which proves you have zero morals or character and you are like chameleon, which changes its shape according to situation. Yes I don't a F about old customs that legalized the DOMESTIC SLAVAERY of men by the name of marriage... lets talk about old customs then, by the old customs dumb and loud mouth like you were beaten on daily basis and majority of your Karen kind had broken limbs with final resting place in river bed and lakes after Murder.

[AlphaGhost]

@shaysh87 I have enough of your shit, Do you really believe for a sec you are worth anything against Medical science? or anybody in the world give a Fuck about your opinion... YOU ARE NOTHING IN FRONT OF SCIENCE AND EVEN SOCIETY. DUMB woman no man will say that shit to your face and ruin his chances of hitting that pussy. Dumb woman men are that shallow, I would never say that to your face and I will sweet talk you into opening my legs. You are beyond saving and all that BARKING YOU HAVE DONE UPTO THIS POINT, has not been backed by any evidence. Which proves my point you think repeating something over and over again will make it right. I am happy you are single cuz your idiot genes deserve to die with you and it will be better for humanity in long run, by the way everybody is this thread have called you out for your trash. I fear for you cuz someday you gona talk like this to wrong men and he will teach lesson of your lifetime and after spending sometime in ward you will return to your senses !

[Jamie05rhs]

@shaysh87 I have never hated you, darling.

[Jamie05rhs]

@AlphaGhost Okay; you've made your point. Don't take it overboard!

[DaveJord]

@Jamie05rhs @shaysh87 @wubs3000 @alphaghost Ahhh... crap how do I get off this chain of replies? Seriously, its not like I want to block any of you. But someone's got to let someone have else have the last word and let be done. Its called being the better person. So I am going to be the one to say let this be done, please? I am not picking sides... but if some one must have the last word let it be me, so neither of you have to concede to the other... and you all can drop it.

[Jamie05rhs]

@DaveJord LOL. Way to shoot yourself in the foot! You just tagged everyone, so now they're all going to come back and reply! 🤣

[Jamie05rhs]

Sorry, @DaveJord. Lol. I'm not going to say anything else!! 😬

[AlphaGhost]

@DaveJord Bro don't worry this thread is dead, we have achieved victory and I won't be replying anymore.

[DaveJord]

So I will be honest with you when I got back into the dating game, after 20 years of marriage and divorce... I thought it was totally not like that. I mean just because I bought a women a nice dinner didn't mean I had the right to expect anything from her.

Well several dates later after wasting almost a grand on dinners, and burning through 6 women who wasted my time and only getting laid once in two months I figured out I was going about this like a fucking loser. These women and their insecurities, and fear of commitment and just down right wasting my time with their games.

So I stopped doing the meet for coffee for the first date, then dinner on the second date, and started the lets go for walk in the park, then to the zoo or to a minor league baseball game, or outside concert or festival... all very cheap dates that literally cost me nothing. I found this approach to be much more successful and by the time we got to me buying dinners for them I was already getting laid and dating a very interesting women.

So I would say no just because a guy buys you dinner does it mean he should expect you to have sex with him... but a real gentlemen who knows how to treat a women should be able to charm her and take her out for cheap and have great time and get laid without having to buy her a dinner.

And ladies, if you have no intentions of hooking up with the guy... then insist on paying for your own meal. Even if he doesn't take you up on the offer its the right thing to do. Once date is over then text him the next day and say you don't think it going to work out before just ghosting me.

[Xoxocutekitty]

It is perfectly reasonable for a straight guy to desire sex at the end of an expensive, fancy dinner with a beautiful woman.

It is another however to exect, demand, or feel entitled to sex at the expense of 1) her consent 2) her morals/values 3) what options her state provides her regarding reproductive services

I do not understand how 'men' can blame women for both of the following: 1. 'spreading her legs' too much
2. Not putting out on a mere dinner date, (I don't care if it's the 1st or 5th)

Now we can argue this way and that, none of them revolve around what women want on a date: the ability to genuinely connect with someone on several planes (intellectually, morally, humor etc).

If someone thinks getting to know someone is a waste of money, then heaven forbid they have to deal with an unplanned pregnancy. Seriously, we need to have these conversations early and often before sleeping with someone.

[lilyanony1]

I can imagine that a guy looking for sex and a hook up would buy a meal and expect sex.

I can imagine that a guy that is looking fur something a little more might also want sex after sharing a nice expensive meal.

But depending on how much he likes or feels he would like to get her more he may wait because she says not tonight.

But I don't really think that changes whether a guy would or would not like sex.

Sex can be satisfying and pleasant...
Who wouldn't want to finish off the night right...
Just my 2cents

[markml]

All I would expect is to be treated humanely and not ghosted.

Some guys do expect sex, but I think they are assholes. Like if you think it's just about paying for sex, get a hooker.

Personally, I don't mind being generous when I like someone. And I'm kind of a foodie, so I enjoy having good meals every now and then, and don't mind paying so my date can enjoy without feeling financially pinched.

However, going all out on an expensive dinner when you just start dating someone may not be wise. It raises the stakes too much. I want to know that the girl likes me for me, not just because I bought her something fancy.

So it's better to save the expensive dinners for when you're in a steady relationship, for special occasions like anniversaries, birthdays, Valentine's Day, or just spur-of-the-moment-why-not. When you already know how you feel about each other.

Better to be low-key when you're just starting out, and you're not sure how things are going to go. Of course, sometimes when things seem to be going really well early on, you might splurge, although that can be risky... but it should all be based on how you feel in the given moment, not what you expect in return.

[Changiis07]

Some I wouldn't doubt it but not all

[dynamicyandere]

It depends on the guy’s approach to dating.


For me personally, I’ve been in 7 long term relationships and I’ve only been sexually intimate after establishing a committed exclusive relationship. This keeps sex meaningful.


If I was dating someone without exclusivity established, I would just be testing the waters to see if we click—I wouldn’t expect sex. I wouldn’t be expecting anything other than common courtesy.


The question would be, “Do they pass my vibe check?” Not, “Are they going to sleep with me after this?”


As for expensive dinners, unless I’m making 7+ figures and I have a ton of money to blow, I wouldn’t be taking someone out to an expensive dinner unless we’re already a couple or if it’s some group event with friends. Treating someone to dinner should be a generous altruistic gesture—not a bargaining chip.

[Jessica405]

He should expect nothing! It would make me almost a prostitute. Giving sex in return for favours.

No one should expect anything. Otherwise there will always be disappointment.

[nitsuj86]

After one date... not really. Doesn't really matter how much I spent. But if I have seen you multiple times, and spent a bunch of money, I will start to expect more and more, the more we go out.

Every guy is different, but the way I see it. If I have been seeing you for over a month, talking to you consistently, spending money on you, doing all the things I need to do, and you still don't sleep with me after all that. Then you aren't taking me seriously or aren't that attracted to me. It shouldn't take you that long to figure out if you want to sleep with someone if you are a grown mature adult, that isn't fucking around with a bunch of others on the side. Pretty simple.

It's a waste of my time and money.

[Aerissa_Jade]

I don't think he should expect anything, that said there have been guys that will say "You know how much that was, I expected something." As if dinner has anything to do with it.

[Kaytiee]

No idea, but he better not because you can't buy me.

[Sam_25]

You're free... than why need to buy? Lol ✌️

[Kaytiee]

@Sam_25 No, I mean you cannot buy my body. You have to be in a relationship with me

[Sam_25]

You're such a wonderful person 😘

[purplepoppy]

He shouldn't expect it but she should offer it

[TenderFantasy]

I'm glad most (like 90%) of the guys I was with didn't expect anything.

If they did, I doubt there would be a second date! Lmao.

[Lliam]

If a girl accepts his invitation to go on a date and he takes her someplace expensive, that's his choice. If it turns out that it's his slimy way of trying to buy sex, he's a creep.

To take a girl to an overly expensive restaurant, I'd have to like her a lot. We would already be in a committed, sexual relationship. I wouldn't pay that much on a first date without even knowing how well we click. The purpose of a date is to get to know each other and see if we want to continue dating.

If she offers sex, I'm jazzed. But I don't employ coercion.

[Emily_925]

I don't think they should be mad

[OlderAndWiser]

Most of my first dates were at a reasonably nice, upscale restaurant, not over-the-top but probably $70-100 for dinner for two. I always expected that inviting a lady to a nice dinner meant that she would arrive on time and I would have her attention during dinner. If things were going well, I expected that she wold accept an invitation to extend the date a little bit by having an after dinner drink, either in the lounge at the restaurant or at the lounge in the restaurant across the street. And if things were still ging well, I expected t walk her to her car, hold her hand in mine, and if she seemed receptive, I would give her a good night kiss and tell her that Ihoped to see her again soon. Those were all of my expectations. While I may have fantasized about the possibility of sex, I accepted that it was just a fantasy, probably not a healthy thing to do on a first date, and I never made any hint or suggestion that I wanted us to do that. The last time that I had sex on a first date was around 1979 and I have matured significantly since then.

I don't have first dates anymore, because I am now living with the lady who met me for dinner in December, 2020. And I expect that we will eventually be married.

[Massageman]

Yay! Happy for you two!

[OlderAndWiser]

@Massageman Thank you, sir!

[Man-O-Metal]

I don't expect s** in the first place cuz that's not what I'm there for. I don't mind paying for an expensive dinner. But if a guy has that expectation/intension, most likely he's not the one. Find a man doesn't want you for s**, but wants you for the time you two spend together

[ChrisMaster69]

I go for dinner for the good food, company and conversation, and that’s it.

Irrespective of what she expects, she will not be getting sex.

she can ask and plead, however it’s food and company only.

[MCheetah]

That's generally how it used to work for decades, yeah.

That's why I say nowadays, men should stop being these pathetic-ass simps and b*tches, because women nowadays are no longer "ladies" and WILL use a man just for free dinners and money, with ZERO obligation of continuing the relationship further.

It's not that a woman has to feel pressured into sleeping with a man if he pays for her, it's that women who DIDN'T want to sleep with a man, wouldn't accept such prizes in the past, because they actually had self respect. They knew the game and would pay for their own dates and food if they didn't feel a connection there.

But today? Women will exploit a man, take all his money, and then accuse of him of "toxic masculinity" for expecting a kiss at the end of the night after dropping $300 on her worn-out ass. And frankly, it's the man who's an idiot for still thinking it's the 1960s, anyway.

I've ALWAYS had this rule: If I wouldn't spend that amount of money on a close friend, I sure as HELL ain't spending it on a stranger I just met. It's "Current Year." Women can pay for their own sh*t and I'm not handsome enough to think most women would want to date me just "for my company." A small few would, but the rest ain't getting a penny from me.

And no, I don't try to bribe my way into a woman's pants, nor have I ever.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/lOxb_SW4Cfg

[EmyyWolf]

Yeah he does I heard it a hundred times. But
it's because their intention isn't to marry you
off the bat! That's why you should NOT be on
TINDER an expect a husband. If you be on
TINDER expect a PIG or a DOG.
WOOF WOOF!
🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕🐕
🐖🐖🐖🐖🐖🐖

https://www.youtube.com/embed/LEVeTSBnox8

[rollercalt]

If a guy expects sex for dinner, tell him to pay an actual sex worker, it's going to be a lot more than the $20-50 he spent on you. Women are not cheap whores, his entitlement doesn't mean he deserves anything but your company at a nice meal. End of story.

[Whatever2929292]

Exactly. Hopefully he gets a undercover cop

[lightbulb27]

no, but that depends on the human you are dealing with. If you don't like that humans expectations, work on yourself so you are attracted to a different calibre human.

choose wisely...

[Pinay_ako]

If he gets mad because he didn’t get any after an expensive dinner, then he’s no good. Forget him 😂.

[JohnK123]

Facts

[ObscuredBeyond]

It'd have to be quite an occasion, and I'd have to have had you go to some lengths to earn my trust, before I'll agree to spending that kind of money on one meal. In which case, it's more about celebrating the moment, whatever that moment is. I'd try to make sex an entirely separate issue. If I wanted to discuss sex at all, I'd do so separately.

That's the problem with the world today: everyone is so frickin' cynical!

I can't do a single nice thing for any woman, purely out of a desire to be nice. It's automatically interpreted as some demand for sex; and I get treated accordingly. It gets really insulting! I open the door for her, basic courtesy, and she gets nasty; because she somehow thinks I'm asking her for sex!

Another will suddenly get all defensive after I do her a favor, as if to say she doesn't want to have to repay me with sex, when I never even stated that as a condition, and will get confused that I tell her that was never the case. And then she'll get mad, thinking I called her ugly somehow!

It's madness, and it has to stop. Screwls are teaching girls all wrong. This forced sexual context on literally everything is the same poisonous insanity that created Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, and all those other freaks from Epstein Island!