When did the modern focus on female orgasm begin and why is it so powerful in today's psychosexual global society?

[Sex_Panther]

First, an axiom: "Most human insecurities are based off of pleasing others in some form or fashion." Presuming this is true the interest in female orgasm, in sexual viability, and ultimately the status of being a successful partner are all connected. This is the root of penile insecurity because what else is the concept of the large penis used for? It is purely for pleasure and purely for the pleasure of a female regardless of reality surrounding orgasm or what the general consensus is by females. Technique is based on the same thing, location, myths about the g-spot, about the clitoris and how it works, about manliness and effectual status, about being "a good boyfriend" and "sexual compatibility", and a myriad of other insecurities are born of this. The mystery here is when did it start and why do we encourage still the myths surrounding female orgasm and the emphasis on female pleasure? It hurts everyone, by the way, not just males, and actually hurts females more for two reasons: 1. The pressure to succeed becomes so great failure is imminent. The male never really gains a secure footing in many cases constantly questioning himself as a man if he does not feel he meets the criteria of being what some would call a "Sex god". 2. The focus itself detracts severely from sexual pleasure via anxiety; sexual pleasure is "Sacrificed" in order to ensure you are hitting spot X, doing action Y, and behaving in Z manner with or without interest in the behavior. Now obviously you here many complaints of men who do not care which is ironically poisonous because for those who do care, which is by far the majority, the focus on the minority only increases the pressure. When sex became a single-sided "problem" something was lost whether it be emotional or psychological, and crippling took place preventing what would be a more free and joyous expression and creating a sense of hyperanxiety for males and females. I feel better! :D

[Mesonfielde]

"what else is the concept of the large penis used for? It is purely for pleasure"

Not true, it's a bit more complicated than using it for 'pleasure'. It has more to do with whether their future partner will ridicule them and reject them and leave them forever for not adhering to the 'standard' expectations.

"The mystery here is when did it start and why do we encourage still the myths surrounding female orgasm and the emphasis on female pleasure? It hurts everyone, by the way, not just males, and actually hurts females more for two reasons: ..."

This statement is only partially correct. Indeed, people can expect too much, and fall flat on their face. But due to the emphasis on female pleasure, the resentment towards female masturbation and natural female sex life becomes less, people start to consider basic natural behavior as less "sinful". Therefore, people will be capable of enjoying sexual activity, because they aren't forced via arbitrary moral obligations to reject anything that is sexual.

However, there is a slight bit of error in the flow of information, so to speak. There is data unknown to many, which is why most of the time, the first time can hurt, as people rush into it without proper research ( www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1004807-how-painful-was-your-first-time-poll-included ). While they search for the aspects of pleasure, they forget about facts of initial conditions that are also important.

Overall, I think you can be as "hyperanxious" about properly pleasing your partner as you allow yourself to be. Everybody sucks at everything they do for the first time, even if some more, some less. Anxiety just makes it worse. If you figure it out over time, it'll eventually get better.

Also, here's some helpful data on how to do things right and wrong to help dismiss the anxiety: www.reddit.com/.../

[Mesonfielde]

So I voted D) because I don't really agree that the research of female pleasure is detrimental. It supports the natural aspect of human sexuality and its liberation from moral bounds.

[Sex_Panther]

"Not true, it's a bit more complicated than using it for 'pleasure'. It has more to do with whether their future partner will ridicule them and reject them and leave them forever for not adhering to the 'standard' expectations." Aesthetics is a type of pleasure. "This statement is only partially correct. Indeed, people can expect too much, and fall flat on their face. But due to the emphasis on female pleasure, the resentment towards female masturbation and natural female sex life becomes less, people start to consider basic natural behavior as less "sinful". Therefore, people will be capable of enjoying sexual activity, because they aren't forced via arbitrary moral obligations to reject anything that is sexual." Relative to the sexual revolution which is not the topic. It's not wrong it's just not on topic and a change of scope. This is not about moral attitudes relative to sexual exploration in society.

[Mesonfielde]

...it isn't for aesthetics, it's from the standpoint of being accepted by your partner. Also, if this isn't in such general terms that sexual revolution is relevant (considering this is a result of sexual revolution), then what exactly are we supposed to talk about here? :P There is so much emphasis on female pleasure because nobody gave a rats ass about how their husbands didn't even bother previously, as females were child factories rather than human beings - in the eyes of your typical person.

[Sex_Panther]

Well, it won't let me respond. :p

[Sex_Panther]

So rather than a long explanation, a focal point: "Overall, I think you can be as "hyperanxious" about properly pleasing your partner as you allow yourself to be." This is not about virginity. This is specifically about a long-standing mindset that exists outside of a specific circumstance so the anxiety itself is prolonged. To give it a context you might understand better think of it as the "perfect body type" issue where people who are well within attractive range find a flaw and focus on that flaw as they are "ruined" by that one flaw despite that being totally untrue. The same thing exists in a psychosexual sense where instead of just being bad "once" because you're new (circumstantial) it's present all the time because of something such as physical appearance or physical limitation (penis size, health, height, rough hands, etc.) which prevents proper engagement.

[Mesonfielde]

Then we are not talking about the research on female sexual pleasure, we're talking about the detrimental effects of mainstream media.

[Mesonfielde]

...and of our traditional culture, because that also maintains the view that the most important thing that a female has to do is "look pretty". Why else would we advocate the use of makeup, apart from the obvious monetary income?

[Sex_Panther]

"...it isn't for aesthetics, it's from the standpoint of being accepted by your partner." <-- Your partner's aethestics, not yours. " Also, if this isn't in such general terms that sexual revolution is relevant (considering this is a result of sexual revolution), then what exactly are we supposed to talk about here? :P" Actually this isn't a result of sexual revolution since multiple SRs have occurred across the world. This is a result of actually putting effort into Sexology, with people like Kinsley and the Institute starting to really look at how human sex works. While this began in the 1950s people caught on in about the 80s and 90s when more concrete evidences were produced because that's how long some of the testings took. From there you had the influence of P*rnography and the popularization of things like "Squirting" and Skene's Gland and the G-spot, despite being old ideas, and... voila.

[Sex_Panther]

"There is so much emphasis on female pleasure because nobody gave a rats ass about how their husbands didn't even bother previously, as females were child factories rather than human beings - in the eyes of your typical person." This is counterintuitive to the sexual revolution though because part of the emphasis of the revolution was the breakdown of relationships (casual sex) and humans as sexual beings instead of the embracing of pleasure and the emphasis of the male part IN female pleasure. The two were like oil and water in that time actually where basically you saw the rise of the "Men are worthless" type of feminists who were very adamant about how little men did during sex and really how men were completely inadequate to complete the task. The reversal would be a part of something else and so while they did happen to be in the same period they aren't of the same origins. @_@ This is too much. Lol

[Mesonfielde]

You put far too much emphasis on aesthetics, and you're undermining my statement with it. Also, I'm pretty sure the sexual revolution also contributed to it, not just the sexology research lab. People expect to have satisfying sex.

[Mesonfielde]

You currently have two views, one that rips apart sex and attachment, and one that links them together as a necessary factor. I prefer the second option, aka thinking of sex as something that is important for both sides, and is something you do with someone you're emotionally invested in. It works if this is true for both sides, of course.

[Sex_Panther]

"Then we are not talking about the research on female sexual pleasure, we're talking about the detrimental effects of mainstream media." This is partially accurate. We are not talking about mainstream media nor are we talking about sexology. This is about social attitudes which has less to do with media in relation to what you're referring to (which isn't word of mouth) and more relatively towards a cultural outlook. Think of it as talking about why the insecurity persists regardless of information and regardless of media since actually neither has a great effect on insecurity. It is a common scapegoat myth because it's easy to say "MEDIA!" without actually advancing the conversation; if it's just the media you can quit, it's totally someone else's fault and there's nothing you can do about it, you're not responsible, and you're not part of "The Machine". But that's another discussion for another day.

[Sex_Panther]

"You put far too much emphasis on aesthetics, and you're undermining my statement with it." You brought it up. "Also, I'm pretty sure the sexual revolution also contributed to it, not just the sexology research lab. People expect to have satisfying sex." I am not here to go through modern history. I refuse to play teacher this time. "You currently have two views, one that rips apart sex and attachment, and one that links them together as a necessary factor. I prefer the second option, aka thinking of sex as something that is important for both sides, and is something you do with someone you're emotionally invested in. It works if this is true for both sides, of course." This is less about "views" and "opinions" and more about the observation of a present happenstance. You're too focused on a persistent occurrence and not scoped out far enough on "Why" and "What" it is. /sigh/ I really should stop posting this kind of thing here. >_<

[Mesonfielde]

Yeah, "why" is boring. I'd rather invest in solutions, not reasons. I mean, we see the end result: people can be extremely stupid and sexist, and think of other people via conceptual stereotypes? How did we get here? I personally don't really care, I just want to make people realize their error so they can start helping me fix it by convincing others as well of how wrong they are.

[Sex_Panther]

I'll ask you a simple question that will express this in totality: Do you know where the G-spot is?

[Mesonfielde]

Inside the vagina at the top of the wall inside by about 5 cms, if I recall my knowledge properly.

[Sex_Panther]

Is that important information?

[Mesonfielde]

It kind of is if you want to stimulate it. Of course, knowing *how* is important too

[Sex_Panther]

Do you know how? What is supposed to happen if you do it correctly?

[Mesonfielde]

Stuff. Honestly, some people even hate their G-Spot being stimulated. But you can't tell if you don't try.

[Sex_Panther]

So when was the last time you actually did this? Stimulated a g-spot.

[Mesonfielde]

Did not, but I'll try when I get the chance. Why is that important?

[Sex_Panther]

Because you are a living example of the exact thing I am talking about. You, and millions of others, virginal or otherwise, hold to, and even study, this information maintaining these factoids because of the compulsion that is impressed that this is important information that must be retained and knowledge of what you are doing in relation to female pleasure systems is IMPERATIVE for no other reason than to be a good partner. It is born of a long-standing cultural insecurity that is impressed upon people in order to achieve the same elemental behaviors regardless of the actual exploratory nature of sexual behavior. Shortened: "You are learning this because you feel it is important but in reality it is not as important to the goal of pleasure as you think it is." There is an overwhelming difference between this compulsion and curiosity; curiosity is not rigid but compulsion is, it is regimented, and the belief is concrete.

[Sex_Panther]

The odds that you stumbled across this and kept it in mind because it's neat are low. You probably know quite a bit about female pleasure even though you've never actually explored with another female at any point in time. You probably know what is and isn't supposed to work on a beyond cursory anatomical level. This is the topic. This is "The Problem".

[Mesonfielde]

You learn what you can. Maybe if people weren't so "taboo" about something people have been doing for more than 6 thousand years, maybe people wouldn't be trying to grasp whatever information they can on figuring out how to make this thing work. I find sexuality counterintuitive.

[Mesonfielde]

I don't really see the problem in learning factual knowledge.

[Sex_Panther]

This isn't learning. This is preparing. This is equivalent to gathering all the information on anatomical physics just in case you have to for some reason build a fission reactor. Most of the information you're going to learn is wrong, because it's not specific to the individual you are with, it's not mechanical, it's not pragmatic because there are many factors that go beyond what you can study in relation to human sexual interaction, and ultimately it may not even matter in the long run but the compulsion itself is the danger. The odds that you know more about and have studied more about the female reproductive system than you have the male is high despite the fact that both systems and the pleasure elements contained there in are equally complex. Then comes the fact that this is a massive push in society and has been since the 90s where if you failed to pleasure a woman you suck. It's over. You're not a man. People prepare to prevent this subconsciously.

[Mesonfielde]

I think it has less to do with manliness and more to do with maintaining a healthy relationship according to the current ideal concept.

[Sex_Panther]

Which is also a by-product of the ill state of affairs. If you believe that it has something to do with maintaining a healthy relationship then it's short-sighted. Long-standing relationships are way more complicated than if you know where the g-spot is and if it does come up as an issue you work through it as a couple instead of one of you as The Professor of Sex. This is the one-sided element where all of your statements support this idea through unhealthy outlooks. You're not crazy and you're not at fault and you're not dumb but this is what we grew up under. This is as concrete a belief to you as your hands are real even though it has less basis in reality than you realize, but that it will shift here.

[Mesonfielde]

So what exactly is the error, and what are its detrimental results? In layman's terms, please.

[Sex_Panther]

Read kheresthorpe's response. It's in layman's terms.

[Mesonfielde]

That didn't really answer anything.

[Sex_Panther]

It challenges the problem of the mindset. You can't actually see what's wrong with it due to inexperience sort of like how studying nuclear fission "just in case" makes no sense to the layman because honestly it's not realistic. The detriment is walking into a situation with a belief that is completely false about a person that you don't know and acting in relation to this from a mechanical viewpoint. You just do more harm than good. Sex isn't pleasurable because you're so concerned and swept up in your prior beliefs that you cannot change them and adapt appropriately. I don't expect you to ever see this until you actually go through it because most of our preconceived notions are the same way.

[Mesonfielde]

Well, this wouldn't be the first time my "preconceived notions" have betrayed me. I sense a sparkle of truth in your statement, but not the solution. How should one think about this rather than without these preconceptions? Assume nothing, do trial and error, analyze the situation based on given circumstances?

[Sex_Panther]

Yes! Sexual exploration, this is the ultimate form of communication from a sexual vantage point, learning to listen, to observe, to be curious, and to try which is not the same thing as learning about systems and what they should do and how they should work and if it's possible to make outcome X from input Y. Sex as an I/O system is crude. When you throw away most of what you believe for the opportunity if not gift of exploration with another person as a sexual being you are giving yourself a real chance to actually bond while the alternate created a wedge as seen in Miss_Rendevous' answer where there is tension, there is a weight, and there is suffering from these preconceived notions and the belief that if you fail this, don't know that, or can't do such and so you're bad and worthless and sexually incompatible, etc. It might sound silly but if I could sum this up as a command it would be, "Give yourself a chance."

[Mesonfielde]

Wow, that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

[kheserthorpe]

I think there's a hint of truth in what you say.

Part of the challenge is that - and this is true for many things in society - there are contradictory messages at play, and people seem to absorb more of certain messages based on their own nature and psyche.

So there are messages saying that real men just get blowjobs and have sex and don't worry about the woman, and there are messages saying that men need to make sure she orgasms every time, and focus on her, or they're crappy lovers.

And there are guys out there who are completely thoughtless and selfish, and there are guys out there who are ruining sex for themselves and their partners by overthinking, making it mechanical, trying not to get too excited in case they cum early, focus entirely on her when she wants to feel he's into it, and so on.

But should we walk around telling all guys to just relax and fuck with passion? No, because some guys are doing too much of that and not enough of making reasonable efforts to get her off too.

[Sex_Panther]

You just said what I said to Mesonfielde better than I said it. I should have read this first. In essence there's no balanced outlook, no one is teaching the reality that you need to just do your best, it's not about an effortless state, it's not about machismo, and it's really not about saving face where if you fail once it's over and you suck but all of these things roll together and cause... this! Having sex is overcomplicated now by the question of how to treat the female, how oriented it is, you are, and the like; it surrounds this to the point where you have these factions of ideas about who gets what pleasure and what is required but unfortunately the moment it turned into requirements and standards is the moment "sex" was lost. For those men it's not sex, it's simply a proving, a social behavior not a physical or emotional one; it is something you do to show you are something rather than something you do with someone.

[kheserthorpe]

You want balance exactly. I think guys who are prone to overthinking and anxiety need to ask themselves which they'd prefer: - a woman who has studied cosmo carefully, doesn't worry about her own pleasure, and very calmly and intently tries to execute some tongue/twist move on you that feels - yes- very good... or... - a woman who goes crazy, pulls you into her, wants to kiss you, cums really hard and bucks her hips taking your cock in. Now ask yourself which guy you are, from her perspective.

[Sex_Panther]

This is it. You should have written this; it's simpler and easier to digest coming from you meanwhile mine is all complex. @_@

[inamorata]

I see a slight issue here. Just dropping the pressure altogether doesn't sound like a solution to me.
Complete lack of focus on the female orgasm may not fix the problem. I understand letting go of the stress, but we have lots of things we need to learn to be good at, while learning to enjoy the ride and not worry too much about failing.
There needs to be a middle between "orgasm-shmorgasm" and "did you cum? How about now? Now?". And not just a middle, but an ability to deal with the existence of an orgasm.
The desire to want to give it/get it, the care to learn how to give it/get it, but a relaxed attitude allowing you not to obsess over it, not to obsess over failing to get there. Not to consider it a problem.

I think this can be achieved through communication, love and trust in a partner. Not just drop the pressure, but learn to deal with it by letting your partner tell you what really matters, be honest, ask for honesty and allow yourself to believe them.

I don't have experience, let's be fair here. I'm extrapolating this considering how I use to observe my education. How I use to stress and how I deal with it now and actually enjoy learning.
So all in all, I may as well be rambling. xD

[Sex_Panther]

We're in agreement. I do not advocate "Not caring" at all. I completely support this middle ground.

[inamorata]

And during my education, I tried the method of dropping the pressure altogether. I tried to allow myself to fail. And then I did. This is why I think pressure is important and for health we need to learnt o deal with it. Not to run from it.

[inamorata]

"We're in agreement. I do not advocate "Not caring" at all. I completely support this middle ground." Well then the tasks ahead are: 1 Learn to communicate with the opposite sex. 2 Learn to deal with pressure and enjoy the ride despite it existing. How to learn these two things? Maybe that's a whole new topic for someone who, unlike me, knows what they're talking about. xD

[inamorata]

1 Learn to communicate with the opposite sex to greatly reduce the pressure.*

[Sex_Panther]

I guess in a sense I don't quite agree with #2. The pressure itself doesn't have to exist. Think of it as something as simple as Checkers with another person. Your mind is on winning the game not on the other person's interpersonal issues or how they may or may not react to winning or losing. Any human interaction can be that simple; the pressure you apply to yourself is not the same as the pressure applied to another and having a goal, wanting to achieve something, is not the same as feeling a need to acquire that something else you have failed. When you lose a game of Checkers against someone you've just lost a game of Checkers; I have never seen a man lose sleep over this unless he staked his life and pride in it. You shouldn't stake your life or pride in such superfluous things as pleasure; do you best and try things, but nothing more.

[inamorata]

That's also what I mean. Maybe I should have thought of that to say it. It's the different kinds of pressure. When you stake pride on it, it huge, when you just wanna win, it's small. It's there, but the reason one is small pressure and the other big pressure is because the source of the pressure is different. A different kind.

[Sex_Panther]

I see, well then we're in agreement again! Huzzah! :D

[Miss_Rendezvous]

Goodness I used to dread sex a little bit when I first started doing it, my bf would always ALWAYS ask "how many times did you cum?" And I was like "ummm... 3?" I felt like I needed to lie because if he didn't he would get so mad at himself and feel like a failure than I would feel like a failure in default because I couldn't cum.
Rather than enjoy sex and my partner I had this weight on my shoulders to achieve this ultimate goal that I was the only one (of his exes) unable to.
My confidence hit the floor, I even started to hate myself. I felt flawed.
I loved sex because of the connection and the proximity, it was enough to make me feel good. But now I don't enjoy it.

[Sex_Panther]

This is a perfect example of that damage it does to females.

[kheserthorpe]

Are you still with the same guy? This is pretty fixable, IMHO.

[Miss_Rendezvous]

Yes I am

[Potatoe]

You deserve a medal just for having wrote all this theory.

[yaddayaddayadda02]

Female orgasms aren't a recent event. Look at the whole 'hysteria' phenomenon, which traces back to 4th-5th century BC.

[Sex_Panther]

I agree but the emphasis on causing them rather than them being some obscure problem that no one is responsible for is rather recent. Hysteria, Melancholy, etc. have gone the way of the dinosaur but so has the idea of virility without female orgasm. The modern idea of "If you can't make it happen, you suck" is I think maybe even 30 or fewer years old. Not sure when the shift too place.

[mistixs]

Men have always been expected to make their wives orgasm in Judaism. worldvalues.us/.../

[iampikachu]

I vote E. So much intelligence. Me so dumb.

[COCOCHANEL]

i like it when you use big words

[COCOCHANEL]

most of the lovers i've had knew they were hotties and only cared about their own orgasm.

[Sex_Panther]

Oh you... @_@

[COCOCHANEL]

男は顔。

[Anonymous]

This is a really long attempt at making yourself feel better about the fact that you can't satisfy your partner in bed.

[Anonymous]

I think the female orgasm is a myth. I have never seen a girl have one.

[mistixs]

Then you're probably just not good in bed.

[Anonymous]

Are there cliff notes?

[Sex_Panther]

These are the cliffnotes. The original is 10,000 words long.

[Opinion Owner]

I gotcha. I'm just gonna go eat and masturbate then.

[Sex_Panther]

Don't ejaculate on your food. I did that once.

[Opinion Owner]

Nah, it's alright. Extra protein :)