Drunk sex = Rape, I smell BS!

[Anonymous]

Seriously...maybe its irresponsible but "rape"? I mean if you get drunk and drive a car you get a DUI...you can't use the excuse "Well, I was drunk I can't be held responsible because I decided to drive my car...I couldn't consent to driving my car." No, you drink, and then drive...still your fault...I mean and what does "drunk" mean? How much do you have to drink? And aren't there plenty of things that can "impair" your judgment (painkillers, maybe you were feeling depressed or in some other mental state) Gimme a break! I mean if someone says "no" and then the other person continues...that’s rape...And I mean I know not many people would go to the police unless they were taken advantage of...but what if you hook up with your Girlfriend at a party...she’s a little tipsy but stills wants sex and enjoys it. Then a few days later...u get in a fight, she decides "ill show him, I’m calling the cops.” And under the law, guys goes to jail is she can just prove she was drunk and he had sex with her (which I’m sure some of her friends could testify to help her out) And the law is also EXTREMELY SEXIST. If both people are drunk, guy is till held responsible…that’s right it’s only girls that can’t consent when they’re drunk I guess. Girl has sex with a drunk guy…that’s not going to court. Ridiculous. I guess the burden is on the guy to always be in control and be 100% everybody is sober. I I know it irresponsible to be hooking up with random drunk people at parties but the law is still ridiculous on this. And I know lots of guys get girls drunk and use alcohol to get girls in bed and stuff, and there is a lot of gray areas at to who is the most at fault. But surely there could be some more specific laws in place that address certain situations rather than declaring that sex with an intoxicated person is the same as holding someone down with a knife to their throat!

[jrose]

Ok, it's not that a woman must say no, she must coherently be able to say YES, if she doesn't it's rape. The law is structured like that so someone cannot take advantage of a person who was beyond the ability to say ANYTHING or do anything to stop the rape. It was written because so many date-rape substances have begun to emerge meaning the victim becomes incompacitated not entirely through their own choice. If the law wasn't like that- someone could slip me something in my drink that made me incoherently drunk/stoned and rape me without it being seen as rape. Just because I couldn't say no doesn't mean I said yes. That's what the law is meant for- not for people who make poor decisions while intoxicated and want revenge.



As for talyoring the law to suit specific situations, that's a bit difficult because legislation has to be intentionally broad so that we're not passing hundreds of laws on the same basic thing and also it leaves grey areas because we can't anticipate all situations and we don't want to have NO laws at all simply because the law was too specific.

Now, I understand what you're saying about being intoxicated and making a poor choice not being the same as being forced, but I don't think that's what the law intends to address- at least not here. But that laws could be different where you're from. Keep in mind though that they need proof beyond a reasonable doubt before they're going to convict a person of rape and a woman's accusation is not always enough.

[Asker]

Well your fromCanada which I don't really know, its probably more common sense up there- as I understand U.S. law ANY sex with any intoxicated person regrdless of if they say yes is considered rape What about when sex between 2 drunk persons take place..why is the guy to blame? that's my biggest beef. and I agree tat use of daterape drugs is rape to me because the rapist obviously had intent t impair somone so they can't say no..but just some1 who is tipsy....not the same in my eyes.

[wildfire5288]

I really don't think you're interpreting the law the way it's meant to be. I've never heard that drunk sex is always rape, I have heard of being so drunk that you can't consent to sex because you don't know what you're doing. Bottom line is the girl has to say that she wants sex and has to in a state where she knows what she's doing. But this girls right in that if it goes to court there needs to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt and in the example you used there'd be doubt

[Asker]

Seriously...look it up sex with a drunk person even if they say yea and don't resist in any way or say no..is rape

[ArizonaRX]

You are trying to make it too cut and dry. My girlfriend and I were drunk and had sex last saturday, so I'm a rapist now? We also had sex sunday morning sober. So she's having sex with a rapist? There is so much more that does into sex with a intoxicated woman then just saying, "Drunk Sex is rape".

[jrose]

I get what you're saying, I do, but you're not taking the law the way it's intended or the way most judges apply it. Also, you're kind of going down a slippery slope saying women should acknowledge it's their own fault- so if I'm drunk and something happens to me that I didn't intend or want, is it my fault? I don't think so. I DO agree that two drunk people are equally responsibile for consensual sex and should be aware their impaired judgement isn't a good thing.

[Asker]

"I DO agree that two drunk people are equally responsibile for consensual sex and should be aware their impaired judgement isn't a good thing." That's primairly my issue when I said that...I was upset at the gril who defended that guys should always be responsible in that situation....

[wildfire5288]

Well there is a limit at when girls are drinking where they're impaired so much that they can't consent to sex because they've had too much to drink and they're not thinking straight. It doesn't count as sex but if a rape case did go to court a lawyer could use the defense that a girl was so drunk that she was physically and mentally unable to consent to sex after a certain number of drinks.

Yeah it's not fair to guys but honestly how the hell is a girl going to force herself on a guy? I'm not saying it doesn't happen but in all honesty I don't think there's one guy at my school that I could rape but every single guy here could for himself on me and for most of them I'd have an extremely hard time fighting them off. Drunk sex in and of itself isn't rape but after a certain point a girl can be so intoxicated where she really can't consent to sex and can use being drunk to help her if she wanted to cry rape later. But honestly, most girls aren't so malicious as to say a guy raped them just to get back at them for something and since you guys are pretty much capable of handling yourself against girls the law won't ever really be on your side in this case.

[zentai]

Exactly, a girl does not have to say no to not want sex. She might not be able to say no anymore. She and him are responsible of what they do, drinking too much specially for the guy is taking the responsibility of not knowing what you do anymore. A guy is responsible for drinking so much that he does not understand other signs and logic anymore that a girl only is going to have sex with him because she is drunk. That is the risk of drinking too much. Certainly for the guy it seems higher.

[Asker]

I know a girl can't force herelf ona guy too often but what I was getting at is that if BOTH involved are drunk the guy gets held responsible which is ridiculous. Techincally it would be like they raped eachother....thats what think is ridiculous...

[wildfire5288]

Not many guys are going to press rape charges under any circumstances. As the physically stronger person in that situation the guy has to be responsible for everything that goes on. The guy has to be able to tell whether or not the girl is so drunk that he should or shouldn't have sex with her. It's not fair girls get drunk, say they want sex, and in the morning realize that's not what they wanted, guys generally don't do that

[Asker]

What does physically stroner have to do with being able to consent o being in a posiion to take advantage of people. I swear, women haved no reasoning or undrstanding ,just vile creatures who think nothing is ever your own fault.

[Asker]

And btw what if the girl is physically stronger?

[wildfire5288]

Because being physically stronger means the guy can really do whatever he wants. 99% of the time guys are stronger than girls so if they've got you up in a corner and they want sex they can have it and there's not a whole lot the girl can do about it. Like I said after a certain point a girl can be so drunk that she can't consent to sex, and that won't always wind up in her screaming rape, but if you want to play it safe just don't have sex with drunk girls

[Asker]

I would never have sex with a drunk girl....but again...she could say no then its rape if the guy continues but if she enjoys the incident then wakes up the next day and regrets it, she can charge the guy with reape even if she said yes and was totally into it

[ArizonaRX]

And she will have to medically prove that she was 1.) intoxicated 2.) raped 3.) Did not consent. It's her word against his. If she actually did actually file charges against him, she's have a heck of a time getting a conviction. She needs substantial proof. Not just (Drunk Sex is Rape = Put him in Prison)

[Asker]

https://teenadvice.about.com/od/daterape/a/daterapeguysfyi_2.htm is this article wrong then?

[itsneshaa]

I can sort of understand and agree. A friend of mine went to a party, got drunk, and needed a ride home so she planned on calling everyone. She calls the guy I'm talking to / like. Goes home. Sneaks back out. Calls this guy we call "man whore". And clams he raped her. She's been using that excuse for months. I just laugh. She just won't admit her wrong. That's understandable but saying the guy raped her, just out of line. Should've never called him, drunk.

[Asker]

Thank you, at least you have some common sense!

[urhotletsdoit]

Its because of people like that that many people don't take rape cases seriously and try to put blame on the girl--saying its her fault she was walking alone or that she must not have actually wanted it if she was wearing victorias secret underwear, crap like that. that's why rape cases don't get reported and don't get punished

[Asker]

Urhotleysdoit......are you talking about itsneshaa or the girl she was posting about?

[itsneshaa]

She knows what she was doing. Trust me. She ain't dumb.

[urhotletsdoit]

I was talking about the girl itsneshaa was posting about

[Asker]

O ok I agree lol

[ALWAYSclassy]

Thats f***ed up. sorry but the girl was drunk, called someone because she needed a ride and he had sex with her that she didn't want and you're blaming her because she called him drunk? so I guess she deserved to get raped by a guy because she called him drunk? what if he beat her up? she deserved to get beat up because she was drunk? what if he killed her? she would have deserved to get killed because she called him drunk? I'm sorry I just don't understand that logic.

[Asker]

I don't know if it was the same guy that brought her home...and it wasn't at the house...she mentioned the girl snuck back out...thats what I took from it neway....

[itsneshaa]

Like I said before, she knows what she was doing. Leave it alone.

[ArizonaRX]

Well in theory anyone can cry rape at anytime they want. But, in actuality the courts and or jury decide. Based on your example of getting drunk with your girlfriend at a party and having sex, then a few days later you fight and she cries rape, you will likely be arrested if the authorities feel that there is enough of a case behind her statements, but after that it's up to her and her lawyers to provide the burden of proof in the case.

So if you didn't rape her and it was consensual sex of two adults impaired by alcohol, it's going to take one hell of a lawyer and a whole lot of BS to even get the case into court.

[Asker]

Not really all she has to do is provide witnesses that say she was drunk that night and then prove that sex took place..

[ArizonaRX]

No. It's not that simple.

[tigerguy]

i understand where you coming from drunken sex isn't rape, its only rape on two parts, 1) if the girl says no but two week and light headed to fight him off. 2) if the girl is part out

these count as rape if the girl is drunk and a guy has sex with her or the count of a guy drugging her drink which is another form of rape.

besides from that nothing else is classified as rape or advantage like if a girl is depressed and what's sex and you have sex with her, fact is aslong as a girl concents to sex and want to do it for whatever reason then its not rape.

[Asker]

In the U.S........sex with a drunk person is Rape

[tigerguy]

Seriously? weird

[Asker]

Yea its ridiculous!

[ArizonaRX]

Sex with someone how is intoxicated is not rape. It's not just cut and dry simple like you are claiming it to be. The Plaintiff wold have to prove in court that the defendant forced her to drink alcohol in order to put her in a condition that she could not make a proper decision to say yes, no or even fight back. Rape cases are very complicated and usually need a lot of evidence to convict. Your example was 3 days after. 3 days after would virtually destroy her case.

[Asker]

https://teenadvice.about.com/od/daterape/a/daterapeguysfyi_2.htm

[MoreLikeFlying]

Meh, ridiculous when a girl claims rape because of immaturity or because she can't accept her actions.

It's only rape if the other person didn't want it, OR if said girl was so drunk off her ass she was hardly even conscious.

[urhotletsdoit]

its sexist for a reason... taking advantage of a drunk girl constitutes as rape

[Asker]

Well what if both people are equally drunk and neither is necessarily in control of the other...why should the guy be held resposbile?

[urhotletsdoit]

Bc 99% its the guy making the initiative and unfortunately only a small fraction of rape cases even get reported, and just a tiny number of these reported cases ever actually leads to punishment

[Asker]

So what? it doesn't matter whos making the initiative...the issue is consent...and I know a lot of rapes go un-reported but that has nothing to do with this law

[Jonny_]

I think law can be sexist in the way that girls would be given benefit of the doubt if they say a guy raped them unless the guy had solid proof. If he was on a night out and she slept with him and no one else seen then he'd be done for rape if she decided to make a claim.

[l-hedoniste]

My personal rule:

You get her drunk=Rape.

She gets herself drunk=Sex.

She gets you drunk=Fun!

[lolly12]

I totally agree with this. And what about women that like to drink and have sex? Its now against the law to be a woman and want to have sex while drinking. Its stupid.

[haleyb]

Oh wow. Actually, women DO think things are their fault. Have you not been in this site, or for that matter, real life? How can you expect laws to be fair to both genders when you yourself are not? Anyways, I think drunk is considered having a BAC of .8 or higher, at least in CA. And there should be more specific laws, but the bottom line is that if you are too drunk to make a decision, it is rape. The laws are not sexist, but the people who carry them out can be. And I would honestly like to see your statistics on cases like the one you mentioned. From what I know, while it is definitely true that girls and boys falsely report rape, the rate is largely debated, ranging from as low as 2% to as high as 45%. This wide range makes any over arching statement impossible to make.

[Asker]

I am saying that its wrong for a guy to be expected to be the one who is always the rapist if 2 people are both drunk

[Anonymous]

Obviously, you have a chip on your shoulder about this and nobody is going to convince you of something that you don't want to be convinced of. I don't know if you've been in a situation where a girl has cried rape on you, but your anger and frustration as to how males are regarded in these types of events---- is clouding the issue.

You know very well that if someone is accusing you of such a crime that it is on them to provide and connect the proof. It is very difficult to convict a man of rape with no physical evidence. It simply isn't enough to have a few witnesses say that they saw a woman drunk. Getting a rape conviction on circumstantial evidence is damn near impossible.

The link for the article that you are referring people to is all well and good, but the writer of the article cites no legal evidence to back up any of his claims and when you click on his name for his profile to see if he's qualified to even be writing such an article----it doesn't even exist. I suggest you take a look at some more reputable legal dictionaries or even check out the Rape Abuse And Incest National Network to brush up on some facts.

Like I said, you're obviously frustrated about this and no matter what anyone says to the contrary---you aren't interested in hearing it. This is not to say that abuses of our legal system regarding false rape charges don't happen---it does, but this is the age of science and technology---which can do a lot to vindicate a man falsely accused of such a thing. Many, many, years ago, a woman's word against a man's was enough to convict a man, unfortunately--but nowadays that simply isn't so.

[Asker]

No I've never been in this situation thank you but I think its unfair that if both parties are drunk that the guy is blamed for no other reason than being a guy

[Anonymous]

What? It really depends on the details. But lets put it like this. If a girl is passed out drunk, incoherent, doesn't know what's going on and you have sex with her you raped her. I know a lot of guys don't like this, probably because they see nothing wrong with having sex with a drunk girl as long as they're getting some right. But no its rape.

If 2 people are both really drunk then its not rape as long as she did not tell him no or indicate that she wanted to have sex. If he was really drunk but still tried to overpower/force her or did not listen to her say no then it is rape.

If she was really drunk and he was sober, or not as drunk as he was then he took advantage of her.

Some men feel like if she doesn't say no then its not rape. that's not the case. what if she is incapacitated to the point where she CANNOT say no? it could still be rape

Now getting tipsy if you're still aware of what's going on and having sex isn't drunk.

I hate how people blame the victim like saying Oh she shouldnt have got drunk. Yeah she may not have made the smartest decision but no one deserves to be raped. A decent guy would not have sex with someone who is drunk and cannot fight back or say no. That's crap.

If I was a guy I would be too scared to have sex with a drunk girl. But seriously what normal guy would even enjoy some unconscious girl? that's sick. why are people even trying to defend that and make excuses for it? this is why I don't drink

[Asker]

I agree, as long as the girl doesn't say no or is not obviously messed up (any guy should b able to tell the diffference between tipsy v. incapacitated)