Why Do ALL Women Fight TO End Female Circumcision, But Many Support Men Being Circumcised Against Their Will?

[TheMasculinist]

I am a Masculinist, which means I fight for equal treatment for men, and besides being a Licensed Practical Nurse with three years of medical school and five years hospital experience...I also have a Criminal Justice Degree and am former law enforcement. All that comes into play in my viewing of circumcision. I see all circumcision as bad, and that they shouldn't cut up babies genitals regardless of sex, and the American Pediatrics Association, and the American Nurses Association and countless human rights groups fight to end circumcision of men because there is no medical need for it. Some people say well its the rights of the family to express their religion--thats true--however it is not ANYONES right to force ANOTHER person to express your religion, which means if the parents want to circumcise themselves have at it-but they can't hold down a baby and make him follow their religion. There are religions that support female circumcision and America actually passed a law saying that female circumcision wasn't allowed in our country REGARDLESS of it being your religion or not, so WHY not for men? And why are ALL women against female circumcision but have a lot of sexist, hypocritical, double-standards for men being circumcised? shouldn't we have equal rights and equal treatment and equal opportunity to proclaim our own religions? Our own right to our bodies to stay intact? So many laws state cutting into someones genitals as sexual assault, assault with a deadly weapon, child abuse, and as over 200 male babies die in America every year from circumcision--this can even be labeled as Manslaughter. Yet so many people are okay with letting it continue. So many people fight for women not to be circumcised...yet so few fight for men not to be circumcised...why? what's the difference to you? Its not healthy to cut up babies genitals...every God states that you should have FREE WILL to decide for YOURSELF, and NOT have someone decide your beliefs for you. If God wouldn't force you to follow Him, why would your parents cut you up to MAKE you a disciple? If God made us in His Divine Image, aren't you cutting up and blasphemously DESTROYING that image and going against Gods Will by cutting parts off a perfectly made male? Galatians 5:6 actually states being circumcised makes no difference in the eyes of the lord. So...Whats with all the hypocrisy? Why not just let men make their own choices about their own bodies when they are over eighteen and considered old enough to vote their own opinions as a man--rather than stealing his will, and taking parts off his body that can never come back? I have made a half dozen videos on this subject on youtube...and almost never get a response...especially from females. Not once. I would like some female perspective. Please feel free to look up the videos on youtube. I have a link on my profile that will take you to them or you can always type in the words "The Masculinist On Male Circumcision" or "Luciano Da Vinci."

[Anonymous]

im a feminist, you know, from the opposite camp. lol *waves* :D

1. circumcising women is for superficial purposes to please mens eyes, and in some cultures, to purposely limit or prevent the kind of pleasure most women get from clitoral stimulation to keep them obedient and in line sexually, prevent adultery, etc. while male circumcision has always come along with the idea that it offers medical benefits, which it does, but nothing overwhelmingly significant. also, judeo-christian ideas are very very common in this world, millions of followers. many christians follow circumcision practices that stem from judaism. it's seen as a commandment from god. if you want to argue with the bible thumpers that gods commandment is wrong, be my guest, but don't try to blame women for ideas that were created by and perpetuated by men.

2. following up on #1, I don't understand how this is a "woman" issue. women were not powerful enough or influencial enough during the times when circumcision first came into practice, we didn't have enough power or influence to change the trending practice of circumcision throughout centuries, and many of us leave that decision up to men. I hear what is being taught about health and my family is christian and they believe its gods will. my mother would have left that decision up to my dad if I were a boy, and I might have done the same. you are saying one thing but in my country the VAST majority of men are pro-circumcision. when the vast majority of men are pro-circumcision, do you honestly think they're going to let women have the final say when a son pops out ? hell no. I've even spoken to some male friends about this since I've seen it brought up here so often. several of them said they would want to make the final decision because "i have a d***, she doesn't. she doesn't know what its like or what's best." I think most people are generally under the influence of our cultural ideas, and also men don't seem to protest much about it here, most men here don't seem to have a problem with it. they still have great sex, and they tell me that its easier to keep themselves clean.

my clit doesn't prevent me from being clean or lead me to have any extra vulnerability to spreading/catching diseases, and if you cut it off, the only thing that will happen is that I will most likely not be able to have an orgasm ever again. so there doesn't seem to be a reason for it. with men, again, we have religious and cultural ideas that it does yield health benefits and also some guys will tell you that its better to be circumcised because its the norm and that's what most girls here will see. if a girl sees a penis that looks different, esp. a younger girl, she might give a negative reaction. a comedian actually joked about it, saying his wife didn't want to hurt the baby and get a circumcision. the guy said the pain he feels now is nothing compared to the negative reaction from a girl who sees his d***. :/

[Opinion Owner]

basically, my point is that you are up against some heavy competition. you're up against a practice that goes back to ancient times, backed by centuries and centuries of ideas in society which are often hold more weight than a medical association saying it doesn't offer the extreme benefits people think it does. on top of that, men prefer it in my country, and usually would rather have it done as a baby when it is much less painful for them.

[Opinion Owner]

so when you pair the ancient ideas perpetuated throughout centuries by men and religion with testimonies from the horses mouths in our country, and you have little to no protest happening, and there is no evidence that it is inhumane or cruel, people in general are not going to be actively against it, though they may not prefer it. there is no comparison between these two, I'm sorry. female circumcision = chopping off the head of your d***. when that starts happening, okay, ill be protesting too

[TheMasculinist]

Im going to respond to the things I like least in your statement-FACT:IT HAS NO MEDICAL BENEFIT!What do I know right?Im only a nurse!ALL CIRCUMCISION IS SUPERFICIAL, not just female,its done to male babies "for pretty"-because girls here,like you said tend to prefer cut up genitals?If women were COMMONLY raped would it be better that you were because that was the NORM?I don't find joking about sexual assault humorous.If I said you hear the one about the girl that was gang-raped?Would you laugh?

[Opinion Owner]

well whether you're a nurse or not, I've read that it does offer some benefit, just nothing to go on about. it offers benefits but nothing significant that would lead to a consensus that circumcision is necessary. that's what I read, I could be wrong. I'm no expert on this subject, by any means, but I'm not going to believe a random person just because you claim to be qualified. I need evidence, documents, studies, etc. and most people here have been brought up to believe its more than superficial

[Opinion Owner]

I think when you're used to something being so common, and not thought of as cruel, and considered healthy, which is how it is seen here, whether its true or not (that, being your heavy competition) it?s going to come as a shock when young girls especially see uncircumcised penis. Usually, its not even a preference, but what you?re used to. You have to use logic here. Girl is only used to seeing a certain type of penis and when she sees this thing that is not only way different...

[Opinion Owner]

, but also has been declared as unhealthy and more likely to pass on cancer, stds, etc. to her, she?s not exactly going to prefer it. One of my friends even said her boyfriend gave her an std ?because he is uncircumcised.? that doesn?t mean that?s why he had it, but even she has that mentality and she's dating him. Again with rationality I seriously don?t see how you're comparing circumcision to rape. That is in no way comparable to male circumcision.

[Opinion Owner]

Being circumcised doesn't leave you with a sliver of the damage that rape does, lets get that straight. Notice how I mentioned there isn't any evidence that its cruel or inhumane, whereas rape pretty much fits that bill. Really you sound like a moron for even comparing the two, no offense. And now I officially find you disgusting. Congrats . I really hope you're not a nurse, saying things like that. F***, good luck to your patients.

[Opinion Owner]

Anyway this kind of reminds me of ear piercing. My parents did that when I was a baby. It isn't seen as unhealthy or healthy, but its purely superficial. Should they not be allowed to do that? As for procedures that are seen as healthy, and even recommended by doctors, if there is no actual benefit, you should be making movements through medical industry to get more doctors, etc. on board with recommending against circumcision and educating the public because your sentiments are not being shared

[Opinion Owner]

Get more doctors to say to new parents "i don't advise circumcision" because not everyone is a doctor or nurse, they look to those people for guidance and I honestly have NEVER heard of a doctor advising against male circumcision and I've seen a few friends have babies and several in my family, obviously. And it isn't enough to simply say "it doesn't have medical benefit" for most people. you have to prove how and why it hurts men as adults and in the long run

[Opinion Owner]

maybe you should do a study of your own, a credible one, and see if you can find anything. there are entire groups of people fighting against female circumcision for obvious reasons. I can't say there's as much support for your stance. most men don't even support you, so why do you find it shocking that most women don't either? you can make whatever plea you want but if the vast majority of circumcised men are telling their gfs and wives and children (awkward)

[Opinion Owner]

that they prefer their circumcised d***s, and that they aren't suffering at all, whatsoever, its going to counteract any claim you make, especially one like this, not backed by evidence that it harms or hurts the men. you should be asking why men are not crying out about it. ill speak up for my sisters about this because I know its ridiculous. I don't have a d***. I can only go by all the men I know and what even doctors recommend sometimes. if its such a horrible thing, assemble the men. protest

[Opinion Owner]

ask your circumcised men why they aren't vehemently pushing for action against this, trying to change attitudes, etc. try to gather their support. I would if I really believed in something that wasn't being fought for. don't just sit here and bitch about women, DO something. get men to tell us they prefer otherwise because I personally have never heard a guy I was with complaining about his circumcised penis. never. I've asked guys if they wished they hadn't been and only one guy said yes, online.

[Opinion Owner]

and why would you ask me if I would laugh at rape? I'm not laughing at circumcision, there's nothing to laugh at, its just there. rant over. lol

[JohNfromKolob]

im very anti-circ...id enver get my son cut...i was cut as baby...but I don't believe ill ever have a son---or daughter...my insecurity over my mutilated penis makes me think ill never have a sexual realtionship anyway.

[kgrrl2323]

okay I've had this debate with some people on here about this very subject and this is what I got out of everything

first of all, when it comes to comparing male to female circ. I truly believe that female circ. is far worse. first of all, not everyone is on the circumcision bandwagon. only jews, Muslims, America, and australia perform circumcisions regularly. and you're number is wrong for how many deaths are from it in America. its actually around 115 (about the same amount as death from sids) and in the world, its only around 500. and even then there's usually no medical records of anyone dying from complications of circ. so there's no proof that death was from circ. for females however, 1 in 3 girls that go through with the procedure die from it. they usually die from hemmoraging, infection, and shock. girls that survive the procedure go through complications the rest of their lives like pain during sex, no pleasure from sex, and pain walking or doing normal activities while boys go on with life like nothing happened. they usually don't even care or know that there's a difference in their penis until they learn that not everyone is cut. then there's the fact that usually (except Muslims) circ. is done when boys are first born, while girls are 7-11 years old. boys won't remember the trauma while girls will.

okay so while I think all this, I do think of your views in that it should be the persons choice to do what they want with their body. but then again, you can't tell parents what to do with their children. if they want to circ. their son, then they should have that option. yeah there's really no medical reason for it but some people prefer this.

there's no point in fighting this war. when you talk to both sides about if they wish they had it done or not, all of the ones that are cut are glad they are and all the ones that aren't cut are glad about that. in the end it doesn't matter at all to guys except for guys like you (i'm sure you aren't cut) that are saying that it's wrong to do this and people shouldn't be. sorry to say but whos going to really listen when their foreskin is already gone? the penis works whether the foreskin is there or not and to everyone man and woman, that's all that matters.

[TheMasculinist]

Wow,wrong.There is medical proof that boys died from complications with circ,bleeding out (hemoraging),& infection from foreign pathogen in their newly CUT skin.These HAVE killed children,and it varies, but AVERAGES 200 DEATHS OF MALE BABIES PER YEAR JUST IN THIS COUNTRY.If it was like nothing happened I wouldn't have spent the last 3 years writing a book about it!IT MATTERS TO US!What a hypocrite one second you say people should have the right to decide-then you say let parents steal that right.

[kgrrl2323]

from what I researched being in these debates is that the death toll is the same as sids. so around 115. link

i have to be a hypocrite in this because I'm unbiased by everything in this situation. some parents believe that it's just better for their son to have a circ. penis. who am I to tell them what to do with their child? what about their right to make decisions for their child?

[kgrrl2323]

some decisions are best made by the parent, not by someone writing a book or someone who just is all about their own penis. a complete stranger isn't going to name or know my child so why would their opinion matter? I've done research myself and this is the attitude I get when I talk about this. people don't care and will do it to their son because nothing bad ever happened to the men they knew who got it done. its the parents preference and your rants aren't going to make the preference change.

[taster]

Not wrong at all! Exceptionally well thought out...and proves how wise I was to wish for you to be my Friend! XOXOXOXO

[kgrrl2323]

thanks taster, if you were here, I would give you a big hug or a cup of you're fav stuff! lol

[JohNfromKolob]

thats not true...i was cut and I'm near suicidal about it

[TheMasculinist]

Almost everything you said is wrong. First of all its OVER 3000 deaths of males from complications due to circumcision every year in America alone, check American Pediatrics Assoc & it happens a million times a year here. Its consideraly worse than female circ SPECIFICALLY when speaking of the amount of deaths that come from it, also when comparing the amount of regularity and the worst part---IS THE SOCIAL ACCEPTANCE OF IT. No one accepts female circ & it almost NEVER happens. Here its one in 6.

[kgrrl2323]

okay this has been from a year ago and you're still going on about this. check your stats because it's getting lower in America. more moms and dads are choosing not to get this done to their son. so what do you have to say now? my research was right before, and I still stand for what I said before, cut or not as long as the penis works, that's all that matters.

[Anonymous]

I didn't have the energy to take in your entire question, but as an initial response I would say that the context of male and female circumcision is seen as very different.

Male circumcision is seen as a culture/religious custom and I think traditionally is also health-related. While I have heard that male circumcision can lessen the sensation a man feels during sex, it is not something that is viewed as having a major impact on a man's ability to enjoy or engage in sex. Female circumcision is assciated with suppressive cultures, and directly destroys a womans ability to gain pleasure from sex.

I don't think it's difficult to understand why women are going to feel more strongly about female than male circumsion. It is simply a matter of us having a greater appreciation of how this would actually affect women and their sexuality (same concept as why women are probably going to show more support for breast cancer causes than prostate cancer causes). As a female I honestly can't appreciate how circumsion would actually affect a man and his view of himself. I also think many women favour sex with men who are circumsised, so that may indirectly affect their choice/attitude towards circumcision as a parent.

[TheMasculinist]

Well let me tell you what you don't seem to know.It has NO medical benefit.The childs freedom of religion is STOLEN from him.Its not just a sensitive part-its the most sensitive part of the human body-3 to 4 times more sensitive than a clitoris.It has langerhann cells WHICH FIGHT INFECTION.And some women might find a cut up post-surgically altered penis more attractive-just like some men finding cut up post-surgically altered and enhanced breasts more attractive-but you don't do that to babygirls

[genevieve]

First off all there's a big difference between female and male circumsition. With female Circumcision, even if they survive it, they often remove the entire labia and clitoris, often girls can only pee drop by drop afterward and obviously feel little to no sexual pleasure exept from intercourse. It's different from 'just' removing a bit of skin, which if dones correctly does not have side effects that serious.

Another thing is that female Circumcision is often performed when she's around 10 and many women cannot not have healthy or pleasurable sex afterward, contrary to men.

I see your point though. I honestly did not know so many babies die from it. Personnally I wouldn't have my son circumcised, if the father would insist on it I would really have to think about it. Actually many countries are not that big on it than we are in the US, its almost nonexistant in wide parts of Europe.

Wasn't it supposed to be for better hygine in countries with a warmer climate than ours? And then it became traditon in some Relgions I suppose

[G-Daz]

here is the history and rise and decline link

[genevieve]

I honestly find it hard to believe that in 1985 about 90% of boys were circumsised. Anyways I'm not sure what this presentation is supposed to tell me?

[G-Daz]

its based on the rates in the US, not the world. It shows outside the US aswell but the studies shown should tell you why it first happened to begin with and why it declined (against the arguments for)

[moloz]

90% of the boys in 1985 circumcised?! Seriously? What a f***ing stupid country.

[TheMasculinist]

Its not just a bit of skin, if you say that then the clitoris is just a bit of skin, too. MALE babies have died from it too.It does have serious side effects.It promotes infection,excessive bleeding,pain, & DEATH.Some babies have had to have their entire penis removed because of the post-circumcision infections,& had pee-holes after or sex change operations,and men are just DAYS old when it happens to them.They cut through the babies frenulum (equivalent to female hymen)&cut off healthy tissue.

[genevieve]

well I wouldn't particualry mind if someone had cut thrugh my hymen when I was a baby, guys there's a big difference between female and male circumsision. I'm sorry if you don't want to see that. I didn't say it was without side effects, I said there where not that serious in comparison to those of female circumsion, which is an undenieable fact

[Belgie]

Well, it's not as simple as you make out.

For one thing, female circumcision is not always performed by doctors in a sterile environment. It has much higher rates of mutilation and damage, and frequently (though not always) involves removing the clitoral hood or the clitoris itself.

This means that it's not comparable to the removal of foreskin.

Second, there is the religious/cultural aspects. Making circumcision of boys illegal will, to be blunt, p*ss off the Jews.

You can't quote any scripture to make a blind bit of difference to a religious persons thinking. They will accept change from an authority figure, or not at all. (And sometimes not even then.)

And lastly, you have a substantial lack of men fighting for changes in the way circumcision is done. Just as female circumcision is a female problem, the male circumcision is a male problem. You shouldn't expect females to be worried about the male member, when men themselves don't get worked up about it in great numbers.

Men who are circumcised are perfectly able to have healthy sex lives and receive sexual pleasure. Females who are circumcised, are often not as lucky.

I don't believe false equivalencies and trying find appropriate supporting scripture is anyway to make a reasoned argument on the subject, any more than the pro-circumcision crowd citing bullsh*t medical reasons supports theirs.

For the record, I'm not cut, happy not to be cut, and think circumcision is a barbaric act that didn't even make sense 2000 years ago living in the desert. But if you're going to argue against it, you need a better argument than that.

[TheMasculinist]

Half the stuff you said was wrong.Lets go through them one at a time.circumcision is not always performed by a dr here in the US.Sometimes its a mohel,a jew, that sucks the babies bloody penis after cutting the foreskin off.ALL circumcision is mutilation and damage by definition and fact.The clitoral hood is exactly the same as the foreskin,except the foreskin has 20000 nerve endings & the clitoris itself has only 8000.Religions use their scripture to support it-so I will use it to stop it.

[Belgie]

How about you try getting your own facts right... To with : (1) I *never* said circumcision was always performed by a Doctor. (2) The sucking of blood is an extremist orthodox version of the Judaic ceremony, hardly ever practiced (though still practiced by some fundamentalists) (3) Lastly, your use of religion will *not* stop it. This is provably the case. People have used religion to argue against religion for 100's of years. It hasn't made a difference.

[TheMasculinist]

No what you said was over there it isn't always performed by a dr.What I was saying was yeah-just like here.The vampiric p*rnographic molestation does happen with Jews.Fact.I didn't comment on HOW often,but I will-thousands of times a year.As far as the religion, I will talk about EVERY aspect and reason why people do it,& fight them on each one,if it means saving my people from mutilation and even death.While I don't care to discuss religions I certainly won't let that be the reason some boy died.

[Lupianwolf]

I don't have a problem if a person wants to get it done when they are of age but at birth when they have no choice is wrong

A circumcised penis can reduce your chances of getting STD's slightly but wearing a condom is a lot more effective

There are times when it needs to be taken away like if you have phimosis but, otherwise it's not very useful

Probably the women shouldn't put their preference as for their child

There are many people who didn't want their foreskin removed who carry out foreskin restoration which is basically stretching the skin enough till it covers the penis, if your child starts doing that what are you gonna say 'sorry'

It's a good thing I live in the UK as circumcision isn't as popular so I've heard women don't really have much of a preference

[Lupianwolf]

Thanks

[Darkfairie17]

I don't think men should just automatically be circumcised, it should be their choice to either get it done or not. I won't get my kids circumcised!

[cun7n1nja]

I have no problem with a man being circumcised, like it's not something I look down on him for or am unattracted to. BUT, I do have a big problem with taking away personal choice. So I agree with you. If a man wants to be circumcised later in life, that's his own deal, but if I had a male child I would never personally take that choice away. It's not my choice to make, and the choice should be there for him to decide when he's old enough to understand it. My boyfriend is uncut, and I know that at least his youngest son is uncut as well. I just see no reason for it.

[JohNfromKolob]

so if you had a boyfriend that wanted to get cut...woudl you be uspet or anything?

[cun7n1nja]

I'm with someone new now, also uncut. And he's mentioned possibly considering getting cut, just in passing. I don't think it's something he really wants to do, just a curiosity thing, 'the grass is always greener'. =P I don't think he needs to because his penis works beautifully as is, so I see it as unnecessary, but if he was really insecure about it and set on having it done for himself, I would support him in that, if it would make him happier to do so.

[Minxxe]

Call me what you like sweetheart, being a racist is far worse than any of those. Don't send me private messages you coward, have the balls to do it publicly, you posted the question in the first place surely you know we're not obliged to give the answers you WANT. And for Anon - tough words from someone who prefers to hide behind a wall of anonymity. You're both p.u.s.s.i.e.'s where I'm standing ;O)

[Minxxe]

I don't do cyber-bullying, down arrow me all you like. I will still sleep well tonight ;O)

[kgrrl2323]

haha I like your answer to this. I hate people that do that kind of crap. up for you my friend!

[Minxxe]

yeh girly, why not?! I don't get many girl requests ;O)

[Minxxe]

"I am a Masculinist, which means I fight for equal treatment for men,"

I stopped reading right there. Forced circumcision is wrong on either sex, but if it makes you feel better to blame women for your lot while we're still fightin for ours then, so be it.

[moloz]

You have problems? Really? Women do the same, blame all their problems on men. I don't see the difference. It's easier to shift blame, rather than accept the responsibilities. Women's problems died years ago.

[TheMasculinist]

Wow. To think of how many books you read just by looking at the cover! Such impressive tact and patience! If you had actually READ everything you would see I'm not BLAMING females. I say the same that forced circumcision is always wrong, that genital mutilation is always wrong. What I was wondering is what is the sexist chauvinistic hypocritical double-standard about that some women like mens genitals that were cut up as babies when they fight to end it for women?

[Minxxe]

you have no idea that I have a photographic memory so I do not blame you for your ignorance on that front. As for my problems I'm more than happy to deal with them, not to bitch & blame someone else. Unlike both of you I am well-equipped to deal with life and still find time to love it and my fellow people. As for reading that sh*te written above, I don't have to it's irrelevant and boring. you fail to note that forced circumcision of the aborigine's only stopped in 70's.

[moloz]

I was not referring to YOUR specific problems, I meant the women that blame men for jobs, education, behavior, etc. This is REALLY not the case anymore and anyone agreeing with this is either retarded or clearly see as all this whining as an advantage, which is unscrupulous. Feminists are like religious people, the more anchored in their beliefs the more dangerous they become and hence require removal.

[Minxxe]

Bollocks, you have no idea what it is to fight for rights otherwise you would gladly fight for both genders like I do. Men are just as precious as are women but when someone has to rename himself and give himself a "cause" for doing right, then he's very wrong doing it for the one side only. WE ALL BLEED THE SAME WHEN WE'RE CUT, STOP THINKING YOU'RE SPECIAL. FIGHTING FOR HUMAN RIGHTS (not gender specifics) IS A WHOLE ENITITY NOT A SLOT MACHINE YOU CAN CHOOSE TO PLAY OR NOT. IDIOT

[madiocre]

You raise an interesting point. To tell the truth I never really thought of it that way. I didn't realize that some boys actually die from it. I guess it's because male circumcission is part of a more mainstream culture. We know lots people who have had it done and so we accept it but that doesn't necesarily mean it's right.

[TheMasculinist]

Did you know it isn't that common actually? Almost no one outside USA does it. Not in Asia, China, Japan, most of Europe, South America, Canada, Australia. Most countries don't do it, but America does...at about 36% right now...which equates to about a million baby boys every year.

[G-Daz]

thousands die every year, you should check this out link and the short slideshow of the beginning of circumcision link leading towards the decline

[madiocre]

I'm from Australia I think its mpre common amongst older men but it's something that's definately dieing out. I think here most drs just don't do it. But there are some that still do if people look hard enough I had a cousin who was gonna get her son done and had to look hard to find a dr but didn't go through in the end.

[AJ2293]

I'm 100% against circumcision, but even I do realize that there's a significant difference between male and female circumcision. If you want to argue against it you need to come up with something better than that

[Belgie]

Agreed.

[Minxxe]

Amen, best answer.

[TheMasculinist]

I don't have sexist double-standards...all I see is babies genitals being cut up. I will use ANY MEANS NECESSARY to fight for equal treatment for my people.Want other reasons than DEATH AND SEXUAL ASSAULT AND CHILDS GENITAL MUTILATION? Why? THOSE aren't good enough reasons to promote a ban on circumcision?

[AJ2293]

I didn't say you were sexist. The point is I'm cut and while I wish I wasn't can live with it no biggie. Now my sister was adopted and had a circumsision performed on her when she was 6 in her home country and damn the issues she has. And the doctors keep saying that she still got lucky, that it could have been way worse. Dude you have no idea what you're talking about. Now the last reasons you stated are good ones, but don't compare apples with oranges

[mistixs]

Yes I also oppose male circumcision. Great point on the religion thing

[Mesonfielde]

Uhh... I never really knew what female circu... I mean female genital mutilation meant, now I checked on Wikipedia and...

HOLY F---ING S--- WHAT IS THIS?!

link

Apparently I must say, male and female circumcision are completely different, so the point you raise, as stated by others, is not as correct as it seems.

However, male circumcision is not much any better either. I've seen videos of life stories where the parents went and got their boy circumcised (yes, they were idiots, obviously), but there was a malfunction in the device and burned his entire penis off, so instead of accepting how they made a mistake, they went and raised the boy to be a girl with a non-existent / mutilated genital.

I hope for the best they suffered the most for making such a stupid "decision".

Obviously the "experiment" didn't go too well. I'd be pissed if my parents had my penis burnt off as well.

My personal conclusion is, circumcision and mutilation of any sort for no apparent reason apart from the ignorance and false propaganda is an error, and the people who do it should also have their own genitals chopped off so they couldn't force their children to suffer for an entire lifetime instead.

They say circumcision is better for the sake of "hygiene". I say, "so is water and soap".

...and as for the original question, females don't really see how bad it is to have your penis mutilated, they don't have as much sympathy for something they have no experience about. They cannot relate.

[xnikkixstarrx]

i didn't read the question but I didn't even know that women could get circumsized how is this done and why?

[Lupianwolf]

cut the labia minora off or sometimes the clitoris

[TheMasculinist]

Womens circumcision is like male circumcision-someone comes over with a knife sticks it into your genitals and cuts things off.They do varying things,cut off the labia,the clitoral hood,or the clitoris,or all three.They do it for religious purposes,yet it was outlawed in America,and MALE circumcision wasnt.That kind of sex discrimination is actually against the law.14th Amendment states separate is NOT equal,and both sexes are entitled to EQUAL treatment.

[xnikkixstarrx]

so then don't get it done don't do it to your kids and so on and so fourth from what I understand most men would rather be circumsized because it makes things more atractive down there therefore making more women want to be with them

[djhohrath]

I'm glad I got circumcised b4 I was old enough to remember what getting my d*** cut would feel like lol and I don't want a wierdass penis anyway lol and by the way what is female circumcision?

[taster]

This whole Page is stupid...I am circumcised and I am glad that I am and if we had waited then it would be that much more painful...therefore it makes sense to do it right away. Female circumcision usually entails removing the whole clitoris and and is frequently done under barbaric conditions...it is like trying to compare lemons & cucumbers...it doesn't fly...

[Minxxe]

Well put

[Mesonfielde]

Circumcised for WHAT? There is no PURPOSE for circumcision unless your parents are ignorant and don't clean out the foreskin when you're a child. And there's no need to cut it off unless you don't do that when you're older. If you maintain good hygiene, circumcision is unnecessary. I'm not circumcised, I'm glad I am not, and I think I'll never understand the uneducated, ignorant idiots who circumcise their children merely because they have no idea how to raise one right.

[taster]

My parents both had college degrees...maybe they are not the uneducated ones...

[Mesonfielde]

Heh, maybe they can build an atom reactor out of wood, they still made their child undergo an unnecessary procedure merely because they suck at the primary basics of raising children (maintaining their hygiene is what I mean).

[taster]

LOL! Well, since I am happy to be circumcized, it's not like I resent it...but I appreciate your concern...

[Mesonfielde]

...Well, I don't miss having sex, because I never had it. :P But as long as you're okay with it, you're fine. It's still not a -necessary- procedure.

[TheMasculinist]

Its much less painful later in life.As a baby your foreskin is fused to the head of your penis with a skin like the hymen called the frenulum.in babies you have to cut THROUGH that AND the foreskin-unlike adults where its just the foreskin.In adults that CHOOSE to do this to themselves they are emotionally ready for the surgery-as a baby they fight to protect themselves yet cannot,and get no choice.No anesthetics or pain meds can be provided to newborns unlike adults.

[actricalian]

That's great that you are a nurse and a cop, but it's a shame that none of that training and education was enough to teach you the difference between female and male circumcision and that your argument is sorely lacking. It's apples and oranges, which makes it a silly issue to use as your political football.

If you want to get anywhere with your masculinist campaign, you should find an actual controversy instead of this one.

[Minxxe]

Yes he should also find a better & wider-reaching forum for it too. Not nearly enough people on GaG as you'd need to lobby parliament with or to run an effective campaign in order to do any good in wider society. All I see is an angry arse trying to set the sexes against each other. Transparent.

[JamieLoves]

Because, they’re hypocrites! They want us that way, but wouldn’t want it done to them!

[Anonymous]

Well female circumcision is done for an entirely different reason. You are educated and know the specifics on female circumcision. That's equal to cutting off the head of the penis, which is not what male circumcision is.

My dad was not circumsized as a boy, but had to be when he was in the Navy going over to the Phillipines. He has been both as an adult so he can speak for and against it with more perspective than just about anyone. When my son was born, my dad strongly encouraged me to have my son circumcised. My husband is in the medical field and was also insistent on it.

I was going to anyway. My friend whose husband was not, was always getting yeast infections under his foreskin...and yes, he cleaned it well. Most girls I know thinks it looks better too. I've experienced both and prefer them circumcised. I certainly did NOT ask my dad about how it felt during sex both ways, but I assume he wouldn't have encouraged my sons circumcision if it was a bad thing.

My son is not going to be pissed I had him circumcised. He will still feel everything during sex. He cried longer when he got shots than when he was circumcised!

In my opinion, guys do get a lot of unfair treatment and are not treated and respected like a man should be... but I have to disagree with you on this one issue.

[TheMasculinist]

Okay,youre wrong if you think its better to have it done as a baby,its MORE painful to a baby, because you not only have to cut through the foreskin,but ALSO the frenulum (equivalent to hymen) and makes it significantly more painful.Commonly a man DOESNT have to undergo it later in life.And my child is intact and he has NEVER had a penile infection.Would you cut your labia off at birth to avoid yeast infections?No.Why do it to a male?Maybe he shouldve tried a nice antibiotic INSTEAD of surgery!

[Opinion Owner]

Well my dad said is very VERY painful,my son cried about 30 seconds.

[themastaplan]

your friends husband got yeast infections under his foreskin because he didn't wash it daily...you women have it all twisted as far as it being "cleaner" or better...its all up to the man as far as being "clean" the only thing circumcision does is redues the mans sensitivity and maybe makes it look better to certain women...

[Sorrycuse]

He lost 30-50% of the skin and 80%+ of the sexual feeling of his penis from that.

[Anonymous]

why're you so angry dude, you'll give yourself a heart-attack.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I don't think most women care what happens to a man. When they hear about a wife, cutting off her husband's penis, they think it is funny. If a man hears about another man hurting is wife, we are appalled.

Also though in all the false propaganda, that has been spread about the "benefits" of male circumcision, and the few women that would have cared, don't listen. People don't want to admit they made a mistake and mutilated their child. The hospitals don't want to be financially responsible for their wrong doing. So many medical professionals continue to lie about it. However more and more are, admitting that there is no reason to do this to baby boys any longer.

Funny how many women claim a woman's body, a woman's choice, but don't feel a man's body should be his choice.

[TheMasculinist]

I like the way you think! You sound like you have a strong charismatic ability to speak your mind and stand up against this kind of injustice, and Id certainly encourage it. If you're interested in learning more about this, please contact me on youtube. You can view my youtube channel by typing in my name "Luciano Da Vinci" or "The Masculinist" or by clicking the link in my profile here on this site. Look forward to hearing more from you! =)

[Minxxe]

My boyfriend is very happy with his hygienic, circumcised penis because it got rid of some broken infected skin - tell him that was wrong.

[Opinion Owner]

If that was his choice, or the skin was not healthy at the time of removal, then that is not what we are talking about, and you know that. Quit acting dumb.

[moloz]

There's a difference between MEDICAL circumcision (which doesn't remove all of it) and ENTIRE FORESKIN REMOVAL. I, too, am medically circumcised PARTIALLY, meaning I still retain some foreskin. The removal of it OUT OF HYGIENE is stupid. That skin is something Mother Nature left there to be, it has its own purpose and nature left it there for a reason. Heck, let's call nature God if you want. Why mutilate your body when its working perfectly fine?

[Minxxe]

Point being, it was not his choice it was a recommendation. Like it or not this practice was done out of the best interest for the child, not to p*ss anyone off. Medicine and science has improved our understanding of the body but you can't f*** with people's religious or cultural beliefs. That is called racism, so carry on being self-important not many people will give a sh*t, because it's only important to you who has some militant hatred of women. "Quit acting" hard-done-by and get a life.

[TheMasculinist]

Minxxe--Anyone ever call you a sexist or a bigot?Let me ask you something directly & you can take two seconds to answer or the rest of your life.If you were circumcised against your will as a baby because of your parents religion would you be okay with that? Being held down, having a knife stuck into your vagina, and parts cut out of it, and tossed aside while you were left there bleeding and crying?You okay with that image?Thats what men go through in this "Land of the Free."We aren't OK with it

[Opinion Owner]

So if someones religion said they should hurt women, then you would find it racist to fight against that injustice? You know there are religions like that you know. Also if a child needs to have an arm removed, to save his life. It is not the same as removing a healthy arm, so that nothing can ever go wrong with that arm. Your argument if flawed to the core. Self-important? We want equal rights as women, nothing more, nothing less.

[Minxxe]

Call me what you like sweetheart, being a racist is far worse than any of those. Don't send me private messages you coward, have the balls to do it publicly, you posted the question in the first place surely you know we're not obliged to give the answers you WANT. And for Anon - tough words from someone who prefers to hide behind a wall of anonymity. You're both p.u.s.s.i.e.'s where I'm standing ;O)

[Opinion Owner]

Why should the fact that I am anom, have anything to do with whether or not this is a human rights violation? You have been proven wrong on every level of your argument, and just lashing out, because you can't stand being wrong. I suggest you go and do some proper research next time before arguing about an issue you know nothing about. I still fail to see how standing up for a persons human rights is racist. I guess you really are okay if a man kills his wife. Some religions endorse such acts.

[Minxxe]

Anon Vs Human Rights Solicitor and activist. Think again.

[Opinion Owner]

What the heck does what you just said, have to do with whether or not a man is entitled to keep part of his own body? There is nothing more personal to a human being, than our own body. No one has a right to remove healthy tissue from us without our consent. Nice how you refuse to answer whether you think a persons religion is a good excuse for mistreating women. Even though you think it is just fine if the victim is a man. Very convenient.

[Opinion Owner]

Your have failed at every attempt to argue, and then avoided the issue of whether a persons religion should be used to mistreat a woman, if it is okay to mistreat a man, under that same religion. This proves my point. You are one of the women that do not care about what happens to men. Thank you, for proving me right.

[Mesonfielde]

...we should not judge each other based on gender... we are all humans... >.> Minxxe, I'm disappointed by your comments. Cultural beliefs that support the mutilation and suffering of others are the best indicators of ignorance. The Bible also said, if you cheat or have sex before marriage, these females are to be stoned. Like, throw stones and rocks at them until they die. Why don't you also support THAT? Gee, I wonder why.

[Minxxe]

I'm merely pointing out that he's using a human rights issue as a way of attacking half of society. I have no problem with furthering children's rights but this is a grown man taking issue in an inappropriate forum. Posting on GaG is doing nothing to campaign or lobby parliament, he's just trying to score points and rile male against female. Mesonfielde it's disappointing that you (who's usually impartial, fair and liberal in his respones) cannot see when someone is playing a "game".