Why are some men so against circumcision?

[justme20]

some would like to compare it to female genital mutilation which isn't even comparable because in men the foreskin is only removed which yes does contain nerve endings but still you received pleasure and in woman the entire clit and parts of the labia are removed in which prevents pleasure since majority of women can't get off vaginally alone. there are some benefits to getting circumcised. 1. Some older men develop cancer of the penis (rare) but Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection. 2.Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. 3.Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely to occur. there are other benefits to circumcision but so many guys are against it?

[sa230e]

Cancer is the 2nd leading killer of women, of which breast cancer is the most common type of invasive cancer. one in 8 US women will develop it in their lifetime. By your logic, we should perform preventive mastectomies on infant girls which will give them 100% protection. While we're at it let's do infant appendectomies so they don't get appendicitis. Maybe we could invent a procedure to invert the vagina to prevent yeast infections.

Think of the benefits!

OK, I'm done with the sarcasm but seriously this 2012. With the modern medical technology at our disposal, surgery should always be a last course of action, not the first line treatment.

1. The incidence of penile cancer in the US is about one in 100,000. The incidence in Denmark (which has a lower rate of circumcision) is 0.82 per 100,000. It is so exceedingly rare as to be a non-issue.

2. There is a vaccine for HPV (Gardasil) which works in both men and women. Adding it to the vaccination schedule would be cheaper, more effective and far less invasive than circumcision.

3. So? Babies are subject to a whole host of serious medical complications. They're immune system is not fully developed which increases their risk for ANY infection. The correct, first-line course of treatment is drugs.

So why are men so touchy about circumcision? Well how would you like it if the majority of society considered a natural part of your body to be an unholy cesspool of disease that should be excised and thrown away at the first opportunity. What if people recoiled in horror at the mere mention of a part of your body? And what if their cause for concern was largely hyperbole? Wouldn't you be a little bit touchy too?

Let's be honest here and admit that in North America we don't like foreskins very much. And this profound distaste causes us to favour arguments for circumcision, rather than against. If everybody thinks foreskin is bad (or ugly, or dirty) it must be true, right? Our distaste is acquired culturally, there is a stigma against it. With no other part of the body that I know of in this day and age do we cut it off when something goes amiss, let alone before.

And by the way, the inside of the foreskin is an environment much like the vagina. It's a mucous membrane - so is the inside of your eyelids, your vagina and your mouth and germs can thrive there too. And like the vagina it contains a natural culture of friendly bacteria that keep pathogens at bay. And thanks to our germophobic, foreskin-phobic culture many men kill these bacteria because they were convinced the foreskin is "unhygienic" and wind up with infections. I've read countless stories about guys getting yeast infections and phimosis because they routinely scrubbed out their foreskin with soap. Many women get yeast infections for the same reason (by douching). In both genders, these "horrible infections" are easily cured by drugs.

[justme20]

yes there is an HPV shot for both men and women but it only protects against 4 types. along with that there is no test for a man to get diagnosed with HPV. women find out they have it during paps. also women with a high rate of cancer their breast tissue is removed before it develops to prevent it. as far as infections yes both men and women can get it

[justme20]

also circumcision is very invasive. its quick and easy when done as a newborn. I've helped out during circumcisions so I know the whole procedure. as an adult surgery is usually done and is more complicated.

[sa230e]

It's "quick and easy" because the child is helpless and can't protest as much. Just because you can get away with doing it more easily does it make it any less invasive.

[justme20]

as an adult it becomes more complicated. it goes form invasive to a surgical procedure. there are more risks involved with anesthesia added into the mix. with a baby there is no anesthesia used. its actually a much safer procedure used on a infant than adult

[sa230e]

You're deluding yourself if you really believe the baby feels no pain without anaesthesia. Many go into a state of shock before or during the procedure. Blood cortisol levels have been observed to rise to 2.5 times normal levels and an acceleration in heart rate to 180 beats per minute. And the point is moot anyway because the procedure is unnecessary for both infants and adults.

[justme20]

of course babies feel pain. I NEVER said they didn't. you are putting words into something I never stated. I'm saying if the procedure is done at a later age men will have more complications and the use of stitches and anesthesia risks are involved. when its done on babies a suagr/water solution is used to calm the baby and a numbing shot is applied. some babies don't feel the procedure because they are so numb down there while others do. but yes babies feel pain in general

[sa230e]

If it's "invasive" for an adult but "quick and easy" for a baby then are you not implying it's somehow less inconvenient for the child? You speak of it as if it were no worse than a flu shot. Would you give sugar water and numbing shot to an adult undergoing the same procedure?

[Moloch]

I agree with this man.

[justme20]

i am implying it is less convient for the baby than an adult. I've actually had surgery on my lip and breasts before to remove a mole and never went under. was completely awake. I've did it myself so its possible

[Seppelson]

@ justme20 with people like you I realy fear the future

[lghulm]

You are right - the equivalent isn't female circumcision, it would be removing the clitoral hood.

If we did this to women the area would become less sensitive over time and the heights of sensation she would experience would be reduced. It would also be an irreversible act that deprived her of a choice to have her body in its natural state.

When you have a child you teach it good hygiene and how to practice safe sex (use a condom). Parents do this for both circumcised and uncircumcised children.

It is only by following these rules that either circumcised or uncircumcised buys will remain healthy and STD free and if an uncircumcised male follows these rules he WILL stay healthy and STD free.

Don't you think a baby boy has the right to grow up with out someone else deciding to cut off a part of his body? Don't you think it is his right to make that choice and no-one else's? Isn't that a basic principle and a human right? I don't know what world we are living in if it is not.

I have seen many of you posts and think you have a good head on your shoulders so don't mean to be coming down on you hard, just trying to explain.

I am also a huge believer that women should be the ones that decide womens issues (because they are the ones that best understand them) and men should be the ones to decide mens issues (because we are the ones that best understand them).

For men to advise women on what to wear, how to maintain their bodies (shaving etc), female circumcision or abortion is bullsh*t. Equally for women to advise men on circumcision or to make that decision for a young boy is wrong.

If we take the STD angle only (which like I said only applies if the man does not practice safe sex, in which case it will effect circumcised men as well - just to an tiny little bit less % chance) then surely we can agree that a young male child is not sexually active. Thus this argument becomes irrelevant. A young man before he becomes sexually active could make the decision to be circumcised by making an informed decision as soon as he is able (without violating the rights of a child) and if a woman really feels the risk of catching an STD by sleeping with a man that chooses not to be circumcised is too high then she is free to choose not to have sex with him.

[Anonymous]

Keeping the genitals clean and eating healthy is a best way of avoiding infections, disease and cancer.

Though I think the people they tested for having genital cancer probably smoked a few packs of cigs everyday for decades, thus compromising their immune system. Cigs deplete vit C from the body, leaving you an easy target for infection. The FDA tried decades ago to ban smoking altogether due to it's many hydrocarbons and cyanide ingrediants infecting the user and non-users, but the government said "No! We want our drug (tax) money".

[Red_Arrow]

And I imagine that those that did not have genital cancer also smoked at the same rate. So that has nothing to do with genital cancer.

[EverythingReal]

Female circumcision is also crazy dangerous.

Here's the thing with guys.

For the most part, they are going to like what they have, and refuse to see it any other way.

[WitchsLove]

because they dont care about health XD as much as the small plesure i am guessing the foreskin gives.

A circumcised penis is also better to look at tbh.

[WitchsLove]

but to be fair, it is their body, their choice! ironic, no? ;)

[pdqsailor]

You know I am circumcised and my Wife and I both love it... It is always clean and honestly our sex life could not be any more enjoyable and we are both regularly and frequently active... There is absolutely nothing wrong with a circumcised penis and a whole lot right about them... The emotional nonsense against this is ridiculous...

[Chelseatiger]

Although I agpreciate guys opinions on male circumcision I do feel that FGM is far more brutal. Men, as I was, can be circumcised for medical reasons or medical necessity. I understand your concerns about STI’s but do not feel that this should be the sole reason to circumcise a baby at birth. A guy who takes proper care of himself should be free from such problems.
Anyway FGM is purely a tribal practice to recognise the change from girl to woman. It is a horrendous practice which in no way at all is done for medical reasons. I can sympathise with the guys out there that were cut for no reason other than culture or “to look the same as their Dad” and do agree that it should be a concensual decision.

[JohNfromKolob]

because every time I look down I know that I'm msising ahuge part of my sex organ and I knwo that the sex I have will only be a fraction of the pleasurenim suppsode to feell...i know the end of my penis has been dried out and damaged by the espxousre all these years...and I have NEVER said FGM is AS bad...but it makes me so angry when girls tell me its not problem because girls ahv eit worse...especially hearing this from American girls who liv ein country were their parents leave their genitals alone...I am not saying its the same...except in the sense that theyre both vioaltions of a babys right to its own body..esepically it sex organ...but I am not saying they are the same in severity. But honestly this isn't something to tka elighlty for me...i have been suicidal and I have deep resentment and hatred of my parents because of it. I do not love my mom..i still resent here...i am 21 years old and never ahd a girlfriend and I wonder if ill ever be able to have a good sexual relationship with my insecurity. you can call me a crybaby...but the fact is if my gentials were left alone...i wouldn't be having these problems

[justme20]

my boyfriend is cut and he has NO issues with drying out or sensitivity issues and he's in his 40's. I have never heard of a male having issues due to being cut and if so its extrememly rare and issues rise right after or during the healing process

[JohNfromKolob]

no it deifntey dries out...the head usualyl is kept as an internal organ by the foreksin but its epxosed to the air...and it snot extremely rare...all cir cmakle sgo throu that...u just dontht realize it because they are cut as babies usually...the nerve ending of the foreskin are gone...and the he'd is unrpiocted and over the years becomes calloused.

[justme20]

do you know how many men are circumcised and never had a penis dry out? the penis is only skin. if that was the case your finger, toes, face, etc will dry out

[JohNfromKolob]

u don't udnerstand...it doesn't totally dry out and shrivel up..thats not what I emant...what I meant is that its not ocoevered anymore and get eposed to more air and friction from wearing lcothes and over time it callouses the he'd of penis and it become way less sensitive. the head is not supposed to be expsode it suppsed to be covered up...and by the way the foreskin has tons of nerve ending sthat are just gone...a cut man doens tfeel the smae pelasure he suppsed to..its that simple.

[JohNfromKolob]

this insecurity has caused me to deal with suicidal thoguths every day...i have no hope of family or sexual realtionship...and I can't find any other reasons to lvie for except the fact that I fear death.

[justme20]

wow you are OVER EXAGGERATING with everything. I see what you are saying and you will still get pleasure with sex and have a family. being cut can still give you pleasure and children

[JohNfromKolob]

its not nearly the pleasure I'm suppsoed to feel...and...if I with an anti-circ girl..she knows how bad it is and will pity me and think less of sex with me...and I can't deal witht hat...im not gonna be the inferior in a sexual relaitonship...and if I had a girl that wa sok with circ...shell wanna do it t my son...and I'm not gonna put any boy through what I have gone through...I can't have a fmaily or relationship because of what was done to me by my mom and those f***ed up doctors.

[justme20]

ok well keep self pitying yourself. good luck

[JohNfromKolob]

what I am suppsoed to do? and id don't really pity myself..women do...

[justme20]

ok well good luck reardless. that's all I'm going to say. sorry but I am not good with self loathers. I'm not trying to be mean or anything

[JohNfromKolob]

u ight hate yourself too if your parents had part of your reproduyctive organ cut off..

[justme20]

actually I wouldnt. if I was a man I would prefer to be cut than uncut. I prefer the look of a circumcised penis than an uncut one but to each their own

[JohNfromKolob]

and you think its worth knwoing that your penis oftne won't satisfy women and that you will feel only 1/3 of the pleasure you are suppsoed to feel?

[justme20]

being cut or uncut has NOTHING to do with satifying a woman.

[JohNfromKolob]

well that dbeatebel I kno women who say cut if uncofrtable in comparison...but newayz its not about just her...its about me not being equal and not feeling equal pleasure because I'm cut up and her vagina hasn't been cut or taken away from.

[brinxster]

Then go get your prepuce removed if you think it's so great.

[brinxster]

See, at least you have a CHOICE to whether or not to remove your prepuce, but how would you feel if your parents did it to you as a child so you never had that choice?

[markscott]

sa22oe: 1. That the penis cancer rate in Denmark is lower, may have nothing to do with not being circumcised. It is also dependent on condom use, etc. The real issue, is in like situations, does circumcision help cut penile cancer rates. 2. That Gardasil is effective, does not negate the advantages of circumcision and HPV spread. Importantly, Gardasil only helps with the most common strains of the HPV virus. It does not protect against numerous other strains at all. Circumcision helps protect against all HPV strains. 3. No, the first line of treatment is NEVER drugs. Medically, the first line of treatment is prevention. And antibiotics have their own side effects, sometimes very serious, life threatening side effects. And antibiotics don't always work, and they don't always stop serious organ damage. If you had spent time in a hospital, you would know this. 4. The issue is not anti-foreskin, but wanting the best health for the individual. This is helped by removal of the foreskin.

[Lupianwolf]

Well first off they can't consent to it

Even if there is benefits, it shouldn't be forced on them

Foreskin is a minor issue and more problems would be solved

if there was better education about contraception

the risk of transmitting STD's is not stopped

just reduced sligtly

What if we did the same to women with

the labia minora(lips that stick out)

the extra skin can have diseases on there but we don't do the same

[JustWantToTalk]

You mean besides the cases of little boys getting infections, some losing their penis all together. The circumcision was original developed to reduce the libido of the male.

Then the same was done to females. Talk to any female who has had a circumcision, and they will never say they they can't orgasm.

The only reason why it is worst for them, is because they wait till they are 12 before cutting peaces off.

Breast cancer would be reduce if all breast tissue was removed from every girl.

Condoms work better than circumcision.

Female circumcisions also reduces the risk of infection.

I find it amazing that male babies are the only babies people want to put under a knife. It shows the hatred some females have of vulnerable male children.

Just because they are male, doesn't mean they don't need protection, just like little female babies.

[justme20]

male babies aren't put under the knife. I've helped to do circumcisions before. its a quick procedure in which the babies are numbed up and given sugar water to relax them. some babies never even cried. its also very rare for guys to lose their penis altogether. it is a safe procedure.. as a precaution in women with a high breast cancer rate girls breasts are removed before deveolping or at a young age.

[JustWantToTalk]

Babies are put under the knife. That how the CUT parts off. No, breast are not removed for ALL children. Females are more likely to have infections, shall we remove parts of their genitals to reduce this fact?

[normalice]

because many men feel their penis is small enough without cutting off parts of it...

[Levin]

because in reality it's only performed for religious-cultural reasons.

Do you need lube to wank if you're circumcised? I'm genuinely curious about this.

[cyrus7]

no

[Moloch]

Yeah you do, we don't have the foreskin. Wanking without lube is painful.

[cyrus7]

maybe for you moloch lmao

[kheserthorpe]

Depends how loose/tight it is. Even if tight you can withou but need a light touch. It does make a difference.

[irykiryk]

That isn't actually true. In female circumcision the clitoris is not removed.

Many men are against it, because like female circumcision the consent of the kid is not taken.

Adults doing it, I couldn't give a sh*t.

If we're going to be citing health reasons, we could also say that female circumcision helps reduce the risk of infections.

[justme20]

infections of the female are internal not external. if you are going to state something at least know the facts about it. yeast infections and bacterial vaginosis are caused from and overabundance of bad bacteria.Candidia is the infection for yeast and Gardnerella vaginalis for bacterial vaginosis. of course there are different types but they all start internal. cutting out the clit and labia have nothing to do with infections. also in females the clit is removed. there are different types

[irykiryk]

The type you mention is not circumcision, it's mutilation. Still doesn't change the fact though that it's a horrible act done on people who can't choose for themselves, which is quite inhumane.

[justme20]

female mutiltation is female circumcision lol.

[MrNameless]

There are varying degrees of female circumcision ,which includes removal of the clitoris and/or vulva.

[justme20]

yep... I told him the same thing.. thanks for verifying :)

[andrewbruno]

I'm circumcised and frankly I could care less about the foreskin. Honestly since I was circumcised at a young age, the chances of me getting circumcised as an adult would be slim to none because I would be used to having a foreskin.

[Moloch]

Because the foreskin is a natural part of your body.

We never got a say in whether we could have one or not because our parents made the decision for us.

It's not so much about the science or statistics, it's about having a part of your body removed.

I'm cool with me being circumcised because there's nothing I can do about it now, but if I had the choice, I'd prefer it if my dad let me be and allowed me to make the decision at a later age.

[cyrus7]

They over-exaggerate that's for sure

[Hunterb]

I have no idea but i heard if you do it later in life your dick has nasty scars and shit

[Seppel]

There are no benefits

[Seppelson]

There is nothing good about circumcision.

[KarimM]

There’s no reason to circumcise a boy. It's simple: Circumcision causes more problems than it cures. Regardless of how many you do, you're always causing more harm than if you didn't.

[KarimM]

it should not be used until there are no other therapeutic options available, and that medical staff should be aware that circ should be an absolute last resort.

[wywynot]

Because they just don’t understand all the facts.

[Mottbiitsa]

Many men oppose it because they are egoistic. Cervical cancer is a very good reason for circumcision.

[AmberAle]

FGM happens at various levels... some worse than male circumcision, some less so. Removal of the clitoris is worse, but removal of the inner labia is anatomically analogous (exact same,) and a pin prick to the labia is less damaging than male circumcision. But listen to what that sounds like..."murder is worse than rape, but some rape is better than torture." Who cares about rating what is worse? It's all completely reprehensible.

1. Some older women develop breast cancer but removing girls breast buds gives almost 100% protection.

2. Would you remove the inner labia of every single girl to maybe reduce testicular cancer by 20%?

3. Baby girls get far more UTI's, but we don't treat them with surgery!