My Conversation with a transgender.

[Skadouchebag]

The following is a converstion I had with a transgender person. It took place in the comments of the deviantart edition of this take of mine (on that site it's titled "Why 'transgenders' have the wrong idea"): https://www.girlsaskguys.com/other/a7834-the-actual-difference-between-sex-gender-in-detail

note: words in bold are mine, and words in italics are the other person's. non-bolded words within my comments are non-bolded to indicate emphasis.

"I highly doubt that I can sway you to think differently, but given you aren't transgender yourself, I'll provide you with the thoughts of one.

Firstly, being transgender was previously deemed Gender Identity Disorder. It is no longer labeled as such.

It is much less about the stereotypical gender roles than it is about the simple fact that you know what you are. You are associating movie explosions with men or the love for romance movies with women, when in reality both of these things are not necessarily feminine or masculine. Rather it is differentiation in personality. Not all men care for explosions, and not all women care for a heart warming love story, and yet either party can still fully identify as a man or woman in terms of gender rather than androgynous. People act as they please, and trasngenders are not different in this regard.

Female-to-male transgenders, for example, do not all strive to be excellent at sports or love fancy cars or hang out at bars with their fellow male friends. Not all male-to-female transgenders are desperately trying to become the prettiest girl in town that loves to shop and get her nails done. Our personalities remain the same, aside from the fact that we grow more confident in ourselves once our bodies match how we inwardly feel. The example in your description cannot apply, because there is no true set way in which men and women should behave, whereas religions do have rules and teachings to be followed. Even so, religious people tend to pick and choose what they wish to practice (ex. Sunday is a day of rest, but plenty of people who are Christian still work), and yet still fully identify as whatever religion they follow.

The subject is very confusing to those who are not transgender, but as a person that is transgender, all I have to say is to not overcomplicate the idea. I was born female, but I am a man in the end. I did not wake up one day and decide, 'being a guy sounds cool. I'm going to pretend to be one now.' Rather over the course of several years of struggling to figure out why I was so miserable, I came to see that it was because I was a man. One that was constantly portrayed as female, which turned out to not be the case.

I hope I've shed some light on the subject."

"actually, gender identity disorder was what homosexuality was called when it was thought a disorder. The disorder that you have is called gender dysphoria.

I am perfectly aware of all this, which is why I think we should get rid of gender altogether; I am simply relaying the scientific facts of what gender actually is, and that being a man or a woman actually has nothing to do with gender.

Also, I would like to note that I have yet to hear an argument for transgenders that would invalidate it being classified as a psychological disorder.

Also, I would like to point something out. I have carefully examined my own self and personality and measured it against our culture's ideas of gender, and found that I am androgynous. Now, if pronouns are based on gender and not sex, then what on Earth would you call me?

One last thing. Before you tell me that I wouldn't undertand going through all the confusion of being abnormal, shunned, and not fitting in-- let me tell you that I, as an aspie, perfectly understand what it's like, and I feel that my condition is a part of who I am, but that still doesn't change the fact that my condition is a psychological disorder."

"Gender dysphoria was previously named gender identity disorder.

I'd refer to you by whatever pronouns you preferred as I do with anyone else. He, she, they, it doesn't make much of a difference to me. Whichever one you wanted to be called, I would say.

I wouldn't go about assuming that you don't know what it's like to be considered abnormal or be shunned. I've got a friend who also has Asperger's syndrome, though I don't really refer to them as abnormal. People thought they were strange, but I simply saw a person that happened to work a little differently from others. I had no issue with befriending them or protecting them when others tried to pick on them. I myself was never shunned so I won't pretend to know how that feels. I've been out as transgender the day I found out. I've been met with some ridicule and hurtful comments, but it's never been something that bothered me. I just acted as I always do, which leads to the topic of psychological disorder.

'Today many psychologists agree that psychological disorders are characterized by both personal distress and impairment in multiple areas of life.' - link

'Definitions/Criteria

Subjective distress – A person’s own feelings about his or her behaviors are used to determine whether that individual is disordered or not
Statistical deviance – A person’s behavior is considered abnormal if it unusual in comparison with the behaviors of others

Norm violation – A person’s behavior is considered abnormal if it violates some cultural rule

Harmful symptoms – A persons’ behavior is considered abnormal if it is harmful to the person or others'

- link

So in other words, depending on what sort of criteria you're using, you can very well deem being transgender as a sort of disorder, though I'm sure my fellow trans people wouldn't enjoy being referred to in such a way. I wouldn't enjoy it either. The word implies that there's something wrong with the person, but trans people are just as capable of doing everything else that a "normal" person can do, whereas other disorders may cause one to have trouble with carrying out daily tasks or change behavior. The same can not be said for those who are trans."

"I think the core problem here is the fact that today's secular society seems to have gotten the idea that reality bends to opinion and desires, which it does not. Whether you are a man or a woman is not determined by which one you want to be, but which one you already are. Which pronoun applies to a person is not based on which one they prefer, but on whether they are in fact a man or a woman. Whether or not I, as an aspie, am abnormal is not based on whether I feel abnormal, but whether or not I am in fact the norm. Gender is not based on which one a person feels like they are, but whether or not they think and act like their society thinks someone of their sex should think and act. What I'm trying to say here is that reality is objective, not subjective.

The 'subjective distress' one makes absolutely zero sense. i'm pretty sure serial killers, pedophiles, and everyone else feels they are normal. Also, everyone knows that insane people tend to think that they are the sane ones and everyone else is crazy.

Before we go any further, I want to make sure you actually read and watched everything in my links from beginning to end. *

Also, it would probably be a good idea for me to point out that there are people who identify as cripples. They feel the same way about having working limbs as you do about having a dick. As such, they try to amputate their limbs, or go about their lives as though they don't work.
There are even people who identify as non-human animals, sometimes even mythical ones. So what makes you any different from them?

You can say of think whatever you want about yourself, but that doesn't make it true. If it did, I'd be identifying as a magical badass dragon with a killer body and a 300 I.Q. and who's jokes are always suffocation-inducingly hilarious."

"I will not deny the biological factor. No matter what surgeries I get or hormones I take, I cannot change my chromosomes. This is a fact, and one that I accept. However, I just can't view things in a manner so black or white. The term 'feel' does not put a correct emphasis on the subject. Trans people know what they are, which perhaps doesn't make us much different from those who say they are truly animals or cripples, or were meant to be born in a different time period. It's something in our brains informing us that our body does not match our gender identity rather than something we keep pushing to believe, some sort of biological occurrence. Not us trying to convince ourselves. I myself have often wondered if I was wrong, if I could live as a female once again. The mere thought, quite literally, gives me nightmares. Those forced to be called by their birth names and sexes tend to lead miserable existences or commit suicide, which is a major loss of life over something that needn't be so great an issue.

My main point is that being transgender does not hurt anyone. A differing gender identity does not harm the person nor does it harm anyone else. The person functions as does any other human being aside from the fact that their body does not match their brain. The only harm that could ever come out of it is the people around that person reacting negatively. Other than that, the question is: why does anyone need to care?

So what if one identifies as a male when they were born female? Who cares if the man down the street feels that they were supposed to be born in the 1950's? There will always be differentiation in people that others label strange or delusional, but if it doesn't end up hurting other people or the person themselves, then it shouldn't be a big deal. It's better to simply respect one another, and move on."

"I know it's smoething in your head telling you that, and I'm not jusding you for it. but that's also the case with many other psychological disorders-- such a the voices in a schizophrenic's head, or a kleptomaniac's compusion to steal. I think part of the disorder is the fact that you care so much. Why does it bother you that much? Consider the perspective of the Klatuu: link

All my life, out of intellectual curiosity, I have contemplated what it would be like if I had been female. I have never been even remotely troubled by the idea, and aside from my name, I cannot imagine what would have to be different for me that did not directly relate to my anatomy. I would eat the same things, believe the same things, have the same overall health, watch the same movies, listen to the same music, browse the same sites (except perhaps where explicit images are concerned), take the same classes, have the same f*cked-up sleep schedule, etc.

Sure being transgender may not physically hurt anyone, but there's still the fact that you're basically, if you'll excuse the phrase, living a lie.

Also, as the son of a highly educated (like, four different theology degrees worth of highly educated) pastor, I can assure you that souls don't even have sexes."

"You and I have very different viewpoints and beliefs, but I sincerely appreciate the discussion we had. Thank you for your time."

"Your welcome.

One last thing to consider. What if instead of having the wrong body, you have the wrong mentality?"

*By which I meant that I wanted the other person to confirm that they had done so.