Let's Talk About Catcalling...

[CubsterShura]

Keep all your current thoughts and opinions on catcalling aside, cause this myTake is going to be very short and straightforward. Erase all previous views and opinions that you have on catcalling, and actually see the topic on its own. Analyze and evaluate. Think. Then say whatever you want.

Catcalling. Commenting on a random woman, often loudly and in an indecent manner. May also involve stuff like singing, whistling, meowing, stalking, bullying. Mostly done 'just for fun'. No good purpose. Sometimes done with friends out of peer pressure, for the sake of 'trying it out'.

Best case scenario, she is flattered and she forgets it after a few days. Worst case scenario, she gets traumatized and it scars her deeply. She might be going through hard times, and catcalling might be the last thing that she wanted to face. Extreme case scenario, she's from a strict family, her dad saw it and he beat her when she got back home. It happens for real.

Dear people who catcall and justify catcalling,

Did you think for once how it could affect her? There is no way of knowing if the girl would appreciate it or feel threatened by it. Did you ever care about her feelings? Did you respect her personal space? Did you acknowledge her dignity? Did you ever think for once what you are putting yourself in to? Is it honorable for you and for her?

No. You chose your fun over her value. And it's absolutely disrespectful. Insincere. Irresponsible. Accept it, you lack self-respect. Hence you don't know how to respect other people either.

If the girl gets scared by what you did and it limits her freedom outdoors, it IS your responsibility. You think you can catcall a girl and how she lets it affect her is not your responsibility at all? No. Because you caused it. You caused her to feel the way she did.

And it doesn't matter how she looked. You saw her, fine. How you react to it is completely your responsibility. She might be standing out in a crowd and it still is your responsibility. Everyone is responsible for his/her own actions. How it affected him/her and the people around, regardless of what he/she intended or anticipated. "I did it to compliment her-" You can't decide it for her whether or not she would take it as a compliment. You can't make her take it the way you want. And you should be aware of it.

Also, you contribute to make this world a bit more unsafe than what it already is for women.

What would happen if you didn't catcall? Nothing. No harm, everything is peaceful. Keeping your comments to yourself won't kill ya. Is it really worth it? What do you gain from catcalling? Because the one who does it gains nothing, but the one to whom it has been done can lose something as precious as... her childhood.

I had to stop playing outside when I was only 12, because the local boys were getting too irritating. When I questioned why I should stop playing and why not those boys stop bullying me instead, I was told that it's because I am a girl. Boys will be boys (so I should be tolerating it). Besides, I am grown-up. Why should a grown-up girl like me even have the audacity to play outside in the first place? It's inappropriate for me to even run, lol.

It was a sudden transition. I played outside with my neighbors a day ago and then all of a sudden mom slaps me for attempting to talk to my guy playmates. I was so... astonished. I didn't even cry. Just looked at her, silently asking, what was that for? Being catcalled? Even today, when anyone asks me to join the sports club or dance in public, I refuse. No thanks bruh, I learned my lesson. Ain't doing that shit ever again.

So what is your excuse for still doing it?

"Some girls like it!" Keyword: SOME. Not all of us. Yeah, I understand too some women like it and it's fine. It really is. All people are different. But you can't tell who likes being catcalled and who doesn't. So is it really worth the risk of scaring her?

"It's not the same in first world countries" only because a woman in a first world country doesn't fall in trouble for being catcalled, it's okay to have no respect for her? No my child no! Besides, you can't escape from the fact that it does affect women and their psychology. It does cause depression and insecurity.

Keep it simple, bruh. Just Don't Do It! The last time I checked, keeping your mouth shut doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. Cause let's all admit it, you better be silent if you have nothing good to say.

[Shadow44]

I agree that catcalling (actual catcalling is pathetic, and that women shouldn't have to deal with it. The thing is there will always be assholes in the world who just don't give a shit about how they make people feel and no amount of reasoning or discussion will ever change that. Like OlderAndWiser said stupid guys will always do stupid things. Even though their behaviour is pathetic, annoying and harassing when they just don't leave you alone I don't think anything should be done (legally) until it comes to the point of threatening violence, stalking, or touching without consent. The best we could do is keep discussing it and raising the next generation of men to respect women.

Now bringing my viewpoints back into the picture. I have no problem with protesting catcalling. I'm all for it. The part that bugs me is when you mix unwanted attention like a guy saying "hello", "good morning", "good afternoon", etc once and trying to get it criminalized. If a guy/girl respectfully approaches a woman or anyone else it's not harassment. If you don't want to talk ignore them or just say "not interested", "Sorry I'm busy", or "Please leave me alone" and go about your day. If they continue that's when it's pushed into harassment and becomes a problem. Society is anti-social enough as it is, why make the problem worse.

[CubsterShura]

Why would I be mad if a guy actually wants to talk?

[Shadow44]

Some women are, some are mad when a guy wants to respectfully show an interest in them. That's just how it is. I've noticed a few female commenters talking about feminists below. They're the first type of woman that comes to mind. I will also say that they're the reason why most guys just leave women alone in public. I mean it may not seem that way due to catcalling though catcallers are just the loudest voices.

[CubsterShura]

It is actually fine to leave woman alone when out in public. Some guys say that they catcall women in order to be nice to them, yet they are never nice to their mothers and sisters at home, who should be their priority.

[Shadow44]

I agree it is fine to leave women alone when out in public. Though I was more aiming at it's also fine to say hi and start a conversation respectfully with women when out in public.

Catcallers are stupid. I rarely hear of anyone liking being catcalled, it makes women mor eor less uncomfortable. Also when the catcaller start following any woman or cursing or insulting her for ignoring him, then he's not being nice. He's being rude. On the flip side we can 5 say we know how they treat their mothers and sisters at home, mainly because we can't observe that at all times, just their interactions with women in public. Though I'd strongly doubt that hey'd yell derogatory things at their mom or sister. They may be "nice" to them in other ways. Though then again thinking catcalling in general as nice is pretty stupid on their part.

[CubsterShura]

Regarding speaking in public, yeah it's possible, but like any person would do, say 'excuse me' and let them know what you wanna talk about. If the woman is not interested, she will show it in her behavior. That is not catcalling. 'Hi', I would feel awkward on street if someone directly says that! But not when I am in a social gathering.

[Shadow44]

I mean some of it is knowing context. It's much less awkward to walk up to someone and start a conversation with something that going on or something relating to context over just hi. Though there's nothing wrong with starting with hi and going from there even if it's a bit awkward.

Though regarding public speaking my reasons for saying that a man should be able to say hi to a woman in public and not have it lumped with catcalling and street harassment, is because there are women out there, who are trying to get a simply "Hello", lumped in with stalking and men saying "Hey sexy, nice ass". This in my opinion takes away from the main issues of catcalling and make people see the whole argument less seriously.

[CubsterShura]

Whether or not the 'hello' was a catcall depends on how he said it.

[Shadow44]

If it's just a "hello" or "good morning/evening /afternoon" especially like was shown in the 10 hour of walking street harassment video, I don't see it as catcalling. If it's a hello followed by some derogatory comment then yeah it is.

[CubsterShura]

Again, depends on the way he said it.

[OlderAndWiser]

There are guys who drive around playing Zombie Nation very loudly on their car stereo, as if some girl is going to say, "Oh I love you because you are playing Zombie Nation on your car stereo!"

Stupid guys ill always do stupid things. In my culture, there are young men whose only concern is how much money they will have to buy beer and cigarettes during the coming weekend. There are guys who think that women want to be treated like meat in a butcher shop. Unfortunately, there are a few women who love guys who play Zombie Nation and a few who like to be treated like meat and a few who don't care if their guy's biggest concern is beer and cigarette money.

The best we can do is to engineer our life so that those people come no closer than the periphery. It is a sad commentary on your culture that you cannot play outside at age 12 but the realization of these flaws in our world is the epitome of the loss of childhood innocence.

I would never suggest that you get accustomed to boorish behavior. You will have a better life if you simply avoid those people as much as possible and pity them for their obvious ignorance when you must encounter them.

[Jackblue]

well said

[CubsterShura]

'avoid those people as much as possible and pity them for their obvious ignorance when you must encounter them' well yeah that's what I am doing for almost a decade now.
Easier said than done.

[OlderAndWiser]

You have a lifetime to work on it.

[lumos]

"Boys will be boys" doesn't cut it anymore. Boys should take responsibility. Boys should grow up. Throwing your hands in the air and pretending there's nothing you can do about it is the epitome of ignorance and laziness.

[OlderAndWiser]

@lumos I never excused rude behavior. If you have a plan to modify the behavior of such idiots, I would like to hear it.

[lumos]

"Stupid guys will always do stupid things" pretty much does excuse that behavior because you're claiming there's nothing anyone can do about in, when in fact, they were most likely raised that way or hanging out in circles where such behavior has always been encouraged and approved.
I think everyone could start by looking at their family, their kids, their siblings. See how they're behaving and simply not condone the type of behavior that's explained in this take. Raise kids to understand that respecting others is key, even strangers you might not meet ever again. Next, you could take a look at your own friends and colleagues. Again analyze their behavior. If they act like an asshole and say inappropriate things, speak up. Don't just sit there and shrug it off because it's "locker room talk" and "boys will be boys". The only reason why these assholes keep acting like assholes is because there are no consequences, nobody has ever told them no.

[OlderAndWiser]

@lumos

That is not condonation. It is merely an acknowledgement that such behavior has existed for millenia and i have no expectation that it will ever be entirely eliminated from the human repertoire. The same statement is true of murder and domestic abuse and i don't condone those, either. Misconstruing my words so that you can fabricate a dragon to slay is unbecoming and i expect better from you.

Perhaps you are unaware of this, but I already make efforts to teach other men to treat women with respect. I am an alumni adviser to an undergraduate fraternity and we teach our undergraduates to be gentlemen at all times and in all places. It is a small contribution but it is what I can do. Despite my efforts, this problem continues in the world. Do you have any other suggestions because, frankly, it looks like this problem will persist despite my efforts. . . and that is why I advised the young lady as I did. I am also aware that the problem is more intractable in her culture.

[OpenWine]

@lumos there are girls who like catcalling so there is a reason behind doing so. attention is attention if good or bad that's to decide. it's not as if all guys who catcall don't get any benefit from it there must be one for it to still exist (don't ask me which one since I didn't experience it myself)

[lumos]

This was not an attack on you, nor am I questioning what you're doing or not doing to prevent this problem, so you don't have to explain yourself to me. These are just things that *more* people *in general* could do a lot more of, because many people do have the mentality of "boys will be boys", which perpetuates the false idea that it's something that we can do absolutely nothing about. I'm sure there are some guys who will never change regardless of the consequences, but it's not unrealistic to want to see a broader change.

@OpenWine just because *some* girls *might* like catcalling, it doesn't justify it or erase the fact that majority of girls find it unwelcome, rude, gross and as if it's limiting their day to day life in some way. And for a lot of men it's not even about hitting on a girl or the potential of her liking it, it's about feeling powerful and treating girls like shit because it strokes their ego.

[OpenWine]

@lumos yea but what would you do to someone who is built around only feeling good when others feel bad. the main appeal to catcalling is downgrading someone (excerting dominance). catcalling is also common in prisons for this sole reason.
you can discuss here it's no biggie but the people on gag (guys) are not the usual kind who catcalls. guys who come on this site come here to ask question about why they do things wrong, those who catcall usually don't think that way. in fact you could only try changing the groupies who hop on the train cause they think their friends who do it are cool.

I know it's not a good thing but what do you think would be a good punishment for this kind of behaviour?

[lumos]

@OpenWine a good punishment would be for friends and family to tell them no and to potentially ostracize them for their behavior. To have the law on the victim's side. The reason why they keep doing this shit is because nobody has told them no and the police doesn't care about how unsafe it's making women feel.

[CubsterShura]

@OpenWine You missed the point of my post. Read again. Pay attention to the worst case scenario, and my experience with catcalling.

[OpenWine]

well I didn't read your take, it was a little too long for me. I just read OAWs oppinion on it and joined the discussion cause he had some good points. if it was so easy for guys to stop other guys from catcalling on girls we would've already done it.
don't like it either but I wouldn't wanna put up a fight with some strangers.

I think lumos is acting a little too agressive towards this topic so I felt like I had to join to soften the topic a little

[TomasLyy]

@lumos
Catcalling, not for the faint of heart obviously and it's not a good thing either. The world is full of awful things however and I can't speak for you or legitimately understand how you feel and what you've been through but the world's cruel. This is just something people need to steel themselves for. There's going to be a lot more hardships coming your way, way worse than guys calling you out on the streets because they find you attractive.

[yoshi_wanna_ask]

I think the whole point was that *she* shouldn't have to avoid *him* (whoever him may be) but that *he* should be punished in some way. Because a lot of women do avoid it. They add an extra 10, 20, 30 minutes to their commute to *avoid* these guys, essentially giving them the street.

[Jackblue]

@yoshi_wanna_ask I don't think he mean't it in that way. No doubt if we can catch such men they should be made to stop.

[OlderAndWiser]

@yoshi_wanna_ask You are talking about the way things "ought to be" in an ideal world, and I am talking about the way things really are. I don't disagree with you, but you and I are never going to eliminate guys acting this way. The best thing we can do for young people is to prepare them to deal with the world as it actually exists instead of raising them to be snowflakes.

[TomasLyy]

Exactly, people need to ready themselves for what a nasty place this is.

[yoshi_wanna_ask]

I'm not talking about a perfect world, just that more can be done than "the way things are" now. I mean, if people can be charged for swearing and being an ass in Mcdonald's surely it's not unreasonable to use the same kind of logic for stuff like this.

@Jackblue I see that now after reading more of the replies. Thanks though :)

[lumos]

@TomasLyy you really think catcalling is the worst thing that has ever happened to me? Cute

[CubsterShura]

Only because the world is a nasty place doesn't mean that we can't work on making it better. Only one person is enough to change the world, and there are 7 billion of us now. Please, the excuse of a 'nasty world' doesn't suit 2018.

I am not saying that life can't be hard at all. Of course, tough things happen. But we can't give in to them. Just no.

[OlderAndWiser]

@yoshi_wanna_ask In the US, our First Amendment freedom of speech protects people who express their opinions, provided that they do not use obscenity. It is not a crime for a guy to approach a strange woman and ask if she wants to have sex with him, as long as he avoids using profanity or obscenity. I am NOT saying that it is the right thing to do; I am merely saying that a guy would have the right to do that.

We must be careful that insistence on observing OUR standards of decency does not infringe on the rights of others. You may be unwillling to admit that others have any such rights but they do. If a guy asks if you want to have sex, you are free to tell him where to go and how to get there, but you cannot have him arrested merely for asking the question.

Yes, I want the world to be a better place. No, I do not engage in catcalling; I think it is stupid and childish. But I also think that the inability to tolerate such boorish behavior is a hallmark of the snowflake generation.

[CubsterShura]

Freedom of speech is the excuse of assholes to say whatever they want and get away with it.

[OlderAndWiser]

"I am NOT saying that it is the right thing to do; I am merely saying that a guy would have the right to do that."

[CubsterShura]

No one has the right to say anything unless thy ave anything good to say, for a good cause.

[OlderAndWiser]

What you are suggesting would severely restrict the right to free speech.

[CubsterShura]

Free speech should be restricted. Words carry a lot of weight. Never underestimate words.

[OlderAndWiser]

Free speech is an essential component of a free democracy.

[Maxemeister]

Didn't read most of this but in most cases freedom of speech should be preserved

[teddybear49]

wow... I can die knowing people care.

[OlderAndWiser]

@teddybear49 Not sure of what you mean but, if you are in the US, you can die knowing that others care about preserving your freedoms.

[teddybear49]

nope, I do not live in the US, I live on the other side of the world where well... um yea.

[MlleCake]

Yep. I pretty much agree. For me the catcalling started when I was just barely beginning to be pubertal at age nine. I think the very second I started to have a perceivable waistline was what the catcallers were waiting for.

But a 9 year old who looks 12 is still 9. And women are still people and don't deserve to be sexually humiliated.

Thanks for your take.

Los Angeles is not a very pedestrian city so now that I travel by car instead of walking or biking everywhere, the catcalling is less, but it still happens. And often the guys feel they can actually approach me now. I don't even find it a bother anymore. If men want to be slaves to women's bodies so they can't even mind their manners, that makes them weaker and me stronger.

[CubsterShura]

The last point loool. I was first stalked by a guy when I was 10 and it scared the hell out of me :(

[JimRSmith]

I don't catchall myself, but I know guys that do, and they see it as paying a compliment, not trying to hurt anybody.

As you say, two sides to every story, though...

[CubsterShura]

THey think it is a compliment, but they can't decide for us whether or not we would take it as a compliment as well. SO is it really worth the risk?

[lord_chilled]

I dont understand who this take is directed at tough.

I dont think this crowd of male readers are the cat callers.

The kind of people that cat call you for no reason are probably the same guys who yell at me " HEY MAN! F*CK YOU!" for no reason.

These are people that dont care.
Its not that they can't understand that they are making others uncomfortable.
Its simply that they dont care.

Im a person who can be easily provoked, especially when i had a bad day.

But even i would just ignore these guys.
Its not worth fighting with them.
They have nothing to lose.
Their sole purpose in life is to make others as miserable as them.
Crab in a bucket mentality.
Just ignore them.

The only thing they can have is your attention.

Dont ever try to reason with them or make them understand, they would probably laugh at you.

I understand that you wemt trough difficulty due to this, and im not trivializing that, im just saying that cat callers aren't the target audience.
Cat calling isn't even the target crime here. The problem was social views and blame shifting on the victim.

Guys like that are low life losers. You can't help them.

[CubsterShura]

I know. It's sad that I cannot show this to every catcaller out there. But I bet most people were not aware of the magnitude of harm it can cause to the victim.

[lord_chilled]

I think most people that have been insulted or been in physical confrontations can somewhat sympathoze.

No one likes being bothered or yelled at when going to school or work.

As my dad says, these people need to be put to work Nd be forced to ne productive to society.
They got too much freetime on their hands 😂😂😂

[CubsterShura]

Yeahhh. They have absolutely nothing to do but waste oxygen, and most of all, they waste CHOCOLATES!

[lord_chilled]

Lol, if they waste chocolates then were gonna have a problem

[CubsterShura]

Scariest of all, they waste my favorite KitKats and Snickers! :'(

[lord_chilled]

Somebody needs to answer for those crimes!

[Heynashville]

I'm a girl, I have 100% catcalled dudes.
Maybe I'm an asshole? Unlikely but well agree to disagree on that.
In every case that I, personally, have been catcalled, it was a compliment. Some guy tries to get too close or grab my ass, while different story. But my friend and I walking to the beach, have some guys 'woohoo baby' out the window, we laugh and feel more attractive. Dumb? Absolutely. I'm a highly self confident person as it is, don't care, still feels nice. Is this the case with everyone? NO. But seeing some feminists identify catcalling as rape honestly baffles me and gives women in general a bad name.
I honestly didn't read the entire thing. Your 'short take' is infact not short. Spoken from experience though, when a man is abusive, you hide under layers. When my ex used to hit me, id wear things super unattractive and baggy, to make him not mad, and to hide myself who I thought was disgusting. If you're in baggy clothes looking disgusting, where I'm from at least, you're not gonna get catcalled. JUST SAYING

[PleaseNoPineapples]

How do you usually catcall guys? I agree that catcalling is a compliment unless the guy grabs your ass or something... Although, I once ended up sleeping with a guy who grabbed my ass lol. He just randomly grabbed my ass on the beach and started flirting with me (he was hot so I flirted back and ended up going to his place). But if he were ugly, I probably would've slapped him lol.

[CubsterShura]

You never read any other myTake that I wrote in this website. This myTake is relatively shorter than all other posts that I write. So yeah, it IS short.

'my friend and I walking to the beach, have some guys 'woohoo baby' out the window, we laugh and feel more attractive' I did mention that some girls like it and it's okay. But most of us don't.

'seeing some feminists identify catcalling as rape honestly baffles me' I did not say that catcalling is rape. In fact, in the entire post I didn't say for once that catcalling is good or bad. I leave that little opinion up to you.

'If you're in baggy clothes looking disgusting, where I'm from at least, you're not gonna get catcalled' even girls who wear burkha and niqab, get catcalled despite covering their faces. Yeah they get noticed less so they do get catcalled less for THAT reason, but it is not for being unattractive or whatever. It is more about how much you stand out in public, in my opinion.

You can catcall, but only the ones who like it.

[Heynashville]

@PleaseNoPineapples "ow owwwww heybaby" usually gets the job done lol.

@CubsterShura no I have not. I typically read the posts that pop up on the feed. Catcalling is rape is a widely known phenomenon that a lot of women seem to believe is fact. Look at YouTube, it's a thing.
That's not how it is where I'm from, and I've lived anywhere from the city to the country. Point of the matter though, I got through the whole, "Extreme case scenario, she's from a strict family, her dad saw it and he beat her when she got back home. It happens for real." Thats why i posted what i did. While i didn't deal with an abusive father, i did deal with an abusive fiance and am aware of how things are.

[CubsterShura]

I wanted to point out that someone who catcalls may end up unintentionally cause troubles that would not have happened if the person didn't catcall to begin with.

[PleaseNoPineapples]

I'm usually more forward than that when I catcall guys lol... I used to worry about coming off as slutty but I don't care anymore. Anyway, do you think it's wrong that I slept with that guy who grabbed my ass on the beach? I used to feel guilty because I basically rewarded him for sexually assaulting me (especially because I would've slapped him if he were ugly). But I thought it was hot that he was so bold... He just grabbed my ass like he owned it.

[CubsterShura]

@PleaseNoPineapples I would have personally crushed his bones to powder on-spot.

[rjroy3]

Real talk. I go for a walk, run or bike ride just out and about and girls will do half the things you're labeling as demeaning for men to do towards a woman passing by. Buuuut I like it.

It's a direct communication of them finding you attractive. Only makes sense that guys in general would feel that girls would take it the same way that a guy would. It's a logical extension.

Further, I've whistled out to girls before and they smiled. Laughed. Waved back, while shouting "heeeey boy" as we crossed paths.

I don't know when or where catcalling became the new thing to attack, but i didn't hear about it being "bad" until it appeared on random internet forums. Often by girls who were not getting male attention and are using this as their form of power. Just like the ugly fat friend in the group who isn't getting any. Her idea of a good night out is getting all the attention from her friends who are actually getting hit on.

I'm just saying. I've never met a hot girl who was legitimately complaining about guys whistling at her, unless it was a fake "I'm complaining about something I like, but if I say it like this you can't say I'm bragging". Sure a guy CAN creep a girl out and go stalker mode, which is different than JUST catcalling. Which is shouting something out as someone goes past, never to be seen again. But you can't equate the two.

If a girl feels truly demeaned as a person, with a guy whistling at her from a moving car and he immediately leaves. She has a problem. Not him.

[lumos]

A girl smiling or laughing doesn't automatically mean she enjoyed it. People often smile or laugh in situations they find awkward or intimidating, because they want to de-escalate the situation or not attract any more attention to themselves. I've gotten catcalled many times and not once have I appreciated it. It has always made me feel like shit, and self-conscious. I don't need a random stranger to shout at me to make me feel validated or attractive. If anything, I'll just find it rude and intimidating.
I'm sure some of the girls you've catcalled enjoyed it, but don't assume all of them did just because they smiled or laughed or appeared to take it gracefully. I'm sure some of them cussed you out in their heads.

[CubsterShura]

One incident of catcalling alone isn't always demeaning, but it happening regularly is demeaning. The fact that you do it because SOME girls appreciate it automatically implies that you didn't have enough respect for the ones who didn't appreciate it.

[rjroy3]

"The fact that you do it because SOME girls appreciate it automatically implies that you didn't have enough respect for the ones who didn't appreciate it."

I don't do it. I said I "did" a few times when I was younger. I could have been more clear. That aside I think it's just a simple case where we have all the same information and just disagree. Maybe you come from a much less social culture. But where I'm from, saying things like "hey beautiful"/"hey handsome", "oooh, I love your smile. Can you smile again?" Is not at all considered disrespect.

Sure. There's a line like everything else. But people complaining about catcalling and labeling it universally demeaning are just wrong.

[rjroy3]

@lumos

And I'm sure you're correct that some girls didn't jive with it. Everyone is different. I've had girlfriends that didn't like me upon meeting me, then changed their mind upon getting to know me lol.

But A a girl responding negatively doesn't indicate that the action was "wrong" nor B does that indicate that their emotional response was justified. Emotions are what they are, but that doesn't make someone correct from an objective standpoint.

Tho that was a less important factor. I was more pointing to the fact that girls do the same thing and do so with positive intention. Guys take it that way as well. So it's illogical to say the opposite is true when the roles are reversed. You could argue it's misplaced, but "wrong", "demeaning", "disrespectful" of women? Just no.

[lumos]

Then I guess we just disagree, because I find it disrespectful even when it's coming from a girl. But one fundamental difference is intimidation. Girls are far more likely to be intimidated by guys because of physical differences - guys tend to be taller, stronger and faster. If a girl already feels a bit uneasy because she's walking home later in the evening and there aren't that many people around anymore, a guy catcalling her will just add to her feeling unsafe. Because even if catcalling is "just" catcalling, you never know a stranger's true intention. That extra layer of intimidation is what also makes catcalling gross, because men know they have this advantage over women yet have no problem with making women feel unsafe.
And are you really trying to claim that a girl's negative reaction to catcalling isn't justified? So I can shove a person's head in the toilet and then claim that they weren't justified in getting angry with me because I, in my biased opinion, find it perfectly

[lumos]

ok to shove people's heads in the toilet?
Sure, the fact that some women like it can make it a bit of a gray area, but the vast majority of women just don't like it. And in my opinion that's reason enough to not do it.

[CubsterShura]

@lumos you go girl

[rjroy3]

@lumos "But one fundamental difference is intimidation. "

That's dependant upon the girl on a personal level and what she personally feels. Versus objectively speaking whether or not the act was intimidation. "Feeling" intimidated does not make it intimidation.
Yes I did not read the whole statement. I wanted to address the premise.

[rjroy3]

@lumos "And are you really trying to claim that a girl's negative reaction to catcalling isn't justified? So I can shove a person's head in the toilet and then claim that they weren't justified in getting angry with me because I, in my biased opinion, find it perfectly"

Don't be silly. That's physical assault, which is... illegal for one and therefore not comparable to words. But nice try I guess.

[rjroy3]

@lumos

I should state. "Justified" emotion means ir is valid from an objective standpoint. Like feeling scared by a bear running at you is a justified emotion. Feeling scared by a Chihuahua isn't so much unless you're a two year old. You have a right to your emotions. They aren't "right" or "wrong". They just are.

But to be justified they MUST be valid objectively speaking across the board. It doesn't vary from individual to individual. Because you can't run society like that. Even with your silly toilet example. Overlooking the fact it's already illegal. It's objectively wrong and the only situation it would be "okay" is if the person asked. Which isn't the same for the topic on conversation.

[lumos]

Sure, physical assault is illegal but so is verbal harassment, which is a category that catcalling can fall into. You as the harassor don’t get to choose if your words are hurtful or not, it’s up to the person you’re saying those things to to decide. Just like a bully can’t claim that what they were saying to their victim was justified and that the victim doesn’t have a right to feel hurt or offended. You 100% have the right to feel hurt by someone’s word and to claim otherwise is borderline sociopathic. Feelings aren’t objective. Being scared by a bear is instinct, which for sure is more objective than feeling offended by someone yelling ”nice ass” at you in the street.

[CubsterShura]

Y'all are trying to be objective?

Listen to me then. Once upon a time beating wives used to be the norm yet to the people of those days beating to the point of injury was considered bad, but slapping and kicking wasn't.

So you are just wasting your time if you are trying to make anything objective. Shoving a person's head in the toilet is harassment, catcalling is not... it is exactly the same as men in past saying that light beating is fine, too much beating is harassment.

[rjroy3]

@lumos

Objective meaning a specific set of criteria that does not change just because of the gender of the individual. Where, " because they're bigger than you " or " intimidation is a factor of so it's different " doesn't change the fact that it is harassment one way or the other. That's what I mean by objective. Just like we have objective criteria for what dictates what is murder versus manslaughter.

I would like to think that you're not just being argumentative. Because so far based on some of your answers it really just sounds like you're trying to have a "gotcha" moment, with the asker as your cheerleader.

All I've said is that if it's okay for women to do, then it's okay for men. Then offered the Viewpoint of how some men look at it. Kind of like how women tend to view the topic of s***-shaming. If it's okay for a man, then why isn't it okay for a woman to sleep around? It's literally the exact same logic

[rjroy3]

@lumos

But if I approach the slut shaming topic the same way that you are approaching the cat calling topic. I could just argue that it's different, because a man actually has to work in order to get sex. While a woman just has to be physically attractive. And that's why it's not slutty for a man to sleep around, while it is slutty for women to do so.

[rjroy3]

@lumos

Or we can have an objective standard. That if you're sleeping around with several people then you're a slut regardless of gender, size or whatever caveat that gives one person exception over another when the criteria is the same from an objective standpoint

[rjroy3]

@lumos

www.jobboom.com/.../

So I'm just going to leave this here. Ir discusses the actual legal criteria for what is harassment. And it kind of falls under what I and others have said. Which is that there is a line, for when just talking to someone actually becomes harassment. It doesn't just start as harassment by talking to someone and the other individual happens to not want it initially. There's a repetitive nature for something to be actually considered harassment.

[CubsterShura]

Catcalling is not okay for anyone, period. It is always disrespectful.

[lumos]

I already said I don't think it's ok for women to catcall either, so your point about slutshaming is irrelevant. I just said that there's an added layer of intimidation and literally not having the upper hand if things were to escalate and the catcaller became aggressive. That's not totally unheard of either - a guy once started pulling my friend's hair when she ignored his catcalls and there was not a whole lot she could do about it since she's 5'3 and he was like 6 feet tall and more muscular. He stopped pulling her hair when another dude told him to back off and was ready to get in between them.

[CubsterShura]

@lumos So true. It's always been big dudes that catcall me. If not then it's a very old man and I'm supposed to have good manners with old people, ugh.

[johnny_hustle]

It doesn't really happen where I live since I live in a small city. At least not randomly out in public as a passerby. I would call it a town, and is classified as a town in the "settlement hierarchy", but it's technically a city.

Where i have seen it happen (I am saying that loosely) is towards cashiers, clerks, baristas and the like. And it would most likely be a bunch of old men giving a creepy compliment to a young teen. But even when I worked in that field I would get the same kind of compliments from older women as well. Just take it as a compliment and move on. Unless the person is literally following you around trying to get at you and you have been very vocal about that person leaving you alone, then it's not harassment.

[CubsterShura]

Nah screaming from the other side of the road isn't a compliment.

[CubsterShura]

And I never said it's harassment. Did I?

[johnny_hustle]

Whether or not it's a compliment is entirely based on your own perception. The guy may think its a compliment whereas you do not. If a girl randomly catcalled me from across the street if I acknowledge it at all, then I'd just give her a noticeable fake smile and keep walking. Not a big deal at all.

[CubsterShura]

I get it. Some people like it at times and it's ok.

Suppose that girl whom you gave a fake smile. The very next day she catcalled another guy, and he absolutely hated it.

The problem is, these people don't think that the person may not like it. Their logic is, 'I want them to like it so they should like it. If they don't then it's not my fault.'

[johnny_hustle]

Okay, and there's nothing against the law that says they can't do that. They are free to do so. Some may like it, some may be different, some may find it annoying and some may hate it. You can't please everyone. It doesn't matter if what they are saying is rude, annoying, offensive, whatever, as long as they aren't harming the person or threatening the person it's legal, and honestly not a big deal. You may not like it, and you may voice your opinion but just because you don't like it doesn't mean that people need to or have to stop doing it. This is coming from someone that couldn't ever catcall someone because I think it's stupid.

[CubsterShura]

It IS a big deal. It IS about safety.

[johnny_hustle]

Catcalling has nothing to do with your safety. Just because you feel scared doesn't mean there is an actual threat present. Like I said, if the person is following you or making actual moves on you by touching you or approaching you as you tell them to leave you alone, then they are not catcalling you. They are harassing you. Catcalling is disrespectful, like for example, shouting, "Hey sexy mama, why don't you come over here and I'll show you a real good time". If that's all that person is doing, that is being disrespectful but in no way is that person jeopardizing your safety. And that is what catcalling is. Anything beyond things like that and actually coming after a person is no longer catcalling and has entered in the realm of straight up harassment.

[CubsterShura]

What if I say, you never know who will end up crossing the boundary of catcalling?

[johnny_hustle]

You can say that about anything. What if this random person I am walking by is going to stab me? Anyone, not just catcallers, can take it to the next step without you ever knowing. The guy that came up to you in a respectful manner and handles your rejection maturely could end up being the biggest psycho who will come back and kill you one day. So, you can't rely on a what if.

[CubsterShura]

That is true in case of all people I encounter in life. But a catcaller is a complete stranger. And they catcall in places where people don't intend to interact with strangers.

[johnny_hustle]

A stranger is no different than your best friend or worst enemy. Strangers are just friends/enemies you haven't met yet. A place where people don't intend to interact with strangers? So, your home? If I'm not mistaken catcalls typically happen on the streets in public. Which is the primary place where I'd expect to interact with strangers.

[CubsterShura]

There are places for meeting new people. Social gatherings, clubs etc. I don't walk to the grocery store with the thought of making new friends on the way.

[cth96190]

Catcallers are ill-mannered retards.
One upside for an intelligent female is that catcallers identify themselves as males who should not be considered to be dating/mating material. . . ever.
The problem with current female outrage about catcalling is that Feminists are using it as a pretext for a global campaign to pass laws that criminalise catcalling. When the wording of those laws is examined, it can be see that all approaches by men to women have been criminalised.
Catcalling laws are a Trojan Horse, through which Marxists/Feminists wish to criminalise normal heterosexual interaction.
The laws state that if a woman “feels” uncomfortable as a result of any action by a male, whether or not he says anything, a crime has been committed.
This means that a man in a bar who simply looks at a woman can be fined and/or do prison time; and gain a criminal conviction for an Orwellian thought crime that will likely render him unemployable and homeless for the rest of his life.
The only rational course of action for men is to refuse to interact with women in any way, because a man has no way to know whether or not the woman to whom he said “good morning”, or whose legs he admired silently, is a neurotic psycho who will have him dragged off to the cells, then destroy the rest of his life.
I say that men should give the Marxists/Feminists what they want. Avoid women. Shun women. Go MGTOW monk.
Eventually, the rest of the female population will rebel against the insanity of the largely lesbian Marxists/Feminists and have such laws repealed.
Men cannot do anything. Women are the majority of voters and they are not listening to us, because they have been force fed the Marxist/Feminist Kool-Aid at school and university.
The only way to get the attention of women is to turn them into the lonely, childless, virgin cat women who the lesbian Marxists/Feminists want them to be.
We have to hurt them. Nothing less will open their ears.

[CubsterShura]

I do not even understand these terms. What are you talking about? Certainly not something that I discussed here. Stay on topic please.

[cth96190]

My post is 100 per cent on topic.
Your lack of education does not cause my post to be off topic.

[CubsterShura]

It is NOTHING related to the topic. It's not my lack of education it's your lack of commonsense. Oh wait, it's actually your over-smartness. Because my post is not about feminism. It is not about politics or relationship between the opposite genders or anything like that.

[cth96190]

Organised opposition to catcalling is all about politics.

[CubsterShura]

No, lol. At least my post is not.

[DevikaButts95]

"Extreme case scenario, she's from a strict family, her dad saw it and he beat her when she got back home. It happens for real."
I only want to add that this isn't a fault of catcalling. That situation the father is just extremely abusive and toxic.

[CubsterShura]

I know.

I wanted to compare the best thing that could happen with the worst thing that could happen. I wanted to mean that catcalling isn't worth the risk.

[alice55]

Honestly the guys who catcall I don't think they mean it in a "bad / mean" ways. They just didn't think of the consequence.
I think it's better to explain why it's bad to do that rather than insulting them and calling them "pigs" or anything.

I truly think guys who catcall don't mean to offend or hurt the girl, they just talked without thinking twice.

[CubsterShura]

And THAT is what I am exactly stating here. Guys do it without thinking. That's exactly why it is disrespectful.

[alice55]

Then we should explain to every kids to always think before talking.

[Celtero]

Honestly, people who so deeply wounded by words need to grow the fuck up and thicken their skin.

That's too bad that there's offensive people out there and that you're so easily offended. What do you want me to do about it? Does complaining about it on an online forum help? Nope.

It's not like being harassed on the street is a uniquely female problem either. I've been harassed myself, and that includes multiple times this year so far. My cousins would be threatened by these guys who drove around in a pick up truck when they were out playing in their neighborhood. I'm pretty used to it, you either play along, ignore them, or puff out your chest and tell them to fuck off.

I know that "sticks and stones..." doesn't apply to women, but you know that men are much more likely to be targets of random violent crime? Yet, somehow there's much more whining about catcalling on the internet.

[InTimoreDei]

I'm glad someone said it. Sick of tired of this pathetic generation with no spines. Everyone is so weak and a bunch of sheep.

[CubsterShura]

Didn't I mention that I was 12? Was I supposed to grow up at that age? Against a bunch of boys who were a lot older than me?

Easier said than done, brother. It's easy for you to say cause you didn't experience it.

[Celtero]

Didn't you have a backyard to play in? I'm sure your father would have been happy to talk to those boys.

I agree that it sucks, but what can good people like us do to prevent it? And just because I'm a man doesn't mean I haven't experienced it. As teenagers we get the same thing, except more hostile. Older boys hurl insults from the safety of their cars, calling us faggots, and threatening violence. A few months ago, a random man asked me for drugs, and when I said I didn't' have any he accused me of being high before I walked away.

There's not really much we can do, besides not let it bother us. There will always be people who harass others, be it out of malice, ignorance, or desperation.

[CubsterShura]

'Didn't you have a backyard to play in? I'm sure your father would have been happy to talk to those boys.' no we don't have a backyard. My father actually talked to a boy who bullied me in school. That led to the most traumatizing experience in my life that I didn't mention here.

Also, catcalling is a tad bit different from what you mentioned. Of course, both are demeaning and all, but catcalling is done in a way to disrespect an entire group of people. People of the opposite gender.

[Celtero]

So what's your alternate solution to stop catcalling?

[CubsterShura]

Raise boys to learn to respect women. Teach them that catcalling is wrong and disrespectful. But we do the opposite. Parents tell GIRLS to step out of their houses less because of the bad boys.

[Celtero]

Lol... Feminists all say the same stupid shit. And they wonder why people hold them in such low regard.

If there was any logic in that solution, then we may as well teach people that murder is wrong while we're at it. Once everyone knows murder is wrong, then there will be 0 murders. Right?

[CubsterShura]

Gotcha. It can never be reduced to zero.

But it can be minimized.

[Celtero]

I guess you missed the point... Pretty much everyone knows murder is wrong, so how does that prevent it? It doesn't. Same for catcalling. So in other words, teaching boys that catcalling is disrespectful and wrong won't do anything.

Plus, if some girls enjoy it men are going to be willing to take the risk of offending a woman to flatter a woman.

So maybe the best solution is to get better at dealing with street harassing assholes instead of blaming men as a whole.

[CubsterShura]

It is prevented by education. Mental treatment. Law. They don't drop murdering to zero, but there are effective methods significantly decreasing their rate.

'if some girls enjoy it men are going to be willing to take the risk of offending a woman to flatter a woman' wrong. men do it for their own fun. Not for a minority of women.

'get better at dealing with street harassing assholes' you mean smile at the catcallers instead of ignoring them? stfu

[Celtero]

You can be a crybaby victim if you want. I'd just tell the creeps to fuck off if I were you.

[CubsterShura]

I once told someone to fuck off as well. And it led to something that I wasn't prepared for.

The problem is not the general catcallers, but sometimes I may come across a guy whose family has political powers. Who has link with criminals. That is where the trouble is. The uncertainty.

[JSmith925]

I have never engaged in catcalling because it always seemed so course. I think that men who do this are trying to connect with a woman they see and can't think of a legitimate way to do this.

I usually just tell a woman "You look pretty today." I have seldom had a bad reaction.
~JSmith

[CubsterShura]

Well if you do it in a way that they don't mind and you're doing it to people who don't mind i see no problem with it. But with a stranger girl, you never know...

[steveguitar]

I don't cat call, and I hate when I see it in the movies or wherever. I'm sure it happens in the USA more than Canada, but maybe I just live in a less tight-nit city.

You could wear a small camera and take them to court maybe, but that is a bit much. The only thing you can really do is raise awareness

[CubsterShura]

Yeah. I only wanted to make people aware of the magnitude of harm that catcalling can cause. And people are getting offended for me pointing out this unpopular truth.

[steveguitar]

Do these people have mother's, sister's, female cousins that they'd want to have that done too? Well no matter where you come from, you can learn respect, and it will be more appreciated. Fuck I would love if somebody held the door open for me.

[CubsterShura]

I don't need anyone to open the door for me. I just want to be a bit safer outdoors.

[JDavid25]

Well, while I agree that some aspects of catcallin are disrespectful.. Talkin to a female sayin "smile beautiful, or you look pretty today, can I get some".. ain't so much disrespectful as it is annoyin from the perspective of the person receivin it.. If a girl is scared because a guy said some annoyin things to her, then she is obviously a little too sheltered.. Now, if he is followin her, commentin repeatedly on how "pretty" she is, or how great she look, then that would be where she deserves to kick him in the ball and run.. LOL..

[rjroy3]

Exactly.

There's a difference between stalking, harassing, following a girl and merely saying something in passing

[CubsterShura]

Actually, a stranger telling me to smile loudly from the other side of the road IS disrespectful.

[rjroy3]

Strongly disagree

[CubsterShura]

@rjroy3 it really is. Because what if I had a hard day and I wasn't in the position to smile? What if that day I was sad because someone died? Did he ever think of that before telling me to smile?

[rjroy3]

The type of day you had doesn't dictate whether or not something is or is not disrespectful. For all he knows it was the best day of your life and you were cool with it in that moment. That wouldn't magically make it respectful if it were disrespectful. Thats not how it worka.

[rjroy3]

If you want to say guys should learn to come at girls better, then okay. Thats honest. To say calling out to a girl in passing is demeaning them as a human being is just dishonest bullshit. If that's the case, then we're going to have to spend a lot of time suppressing the sexuality of women again. Because girls whistle at guys all the time. Are men being demeaned? Should we go back in time before the women's liberation movement?

[rjroy3]

We can reimplement the middle school 6 inch rule.
No staring.
No gazing.
Do not call out to, whistle or even talk to the opposite sex unless you know them.
Keep your gaze up at all times so as not to risk appearing as if you're staring at the opposite sexes ass, chest or crotch.
Turn sideways slightly so as not to accidentally make eye contact.

[JDavid25]

@CubsterShura.. Well, what if he was just tryna be nice, and friendly, and just didn't say the right thing you wanted him to say? Now if he sayin "Girl, you better smile".. Then I think that's disrespectful.. LOL..

[CubsterShura]

'what if he was just tryna be nice' I bet such boys are not nice to their own mothers and sisters at home.

[JDavid25]

Well, it depends on what he was sayin really.. But I understand sometimes I just don't wannabe talked to.. I don't & never catcalled though, I'm just sayin..

[CubsterShura]

Lemme just say this. Don't interact with outsiders unnecessarily. It's that simple.

[JDavid25]

Well, I don't necessarily agree wit that.. I like people who talk to me out of the blue as long as it's not weird.. LOL.. That's how friends are made sometimes..

[CubsterShura]

That should be in a social gathering. Not in the streets.

[JDavid25]

Harmless words like "Hey how you doin?" Don't hurt really..

[CubsterShura]

Hamless, true, but it's irritating. Why would I tell a random guy how I am doing? Who is he?

Even from the guy's side, what is his business knowing what I am doing? Most probably his mom is sick at home and he even has no idea cause he never asked the same question to her, how she is doing.

[JDavid25]

Well, I ask people how they doin all the time.. It's just bein friendly.. That's what we need in this world, and not the cold shoulder.. But in the case of cat callin, it's understandable why you would feel that way..

[CubsterShura]

Be good to the women in your family. Then your girlfriend if you have one. Then friends. Then acquaintances. Then other women. :) The world would appreciate it more.

[JDavid25]

Trust me... I am a gentlemen... To the point where some girls found it lame or borin even if they think I'm cute.. LOL.. In fact I'm the one to get played more than the playa.. And I grew up raised by women.. So I'm good in that department.. 8)

[CubsterShura]

Not bad!

[JDavid25]

It's coo, I got bombarded wit Christian values too when I was younger.. So, that made me look at girls and people in general in a different way.. Although it don't help me wit my game as I neva been in a serious relationship.. LMAO.. So, it don't seem to be that great from my side.

[CubsterShura]

I grew up with Desi values but I prefer Islamic values over Desi values.

[JDavid25]

Aw okie.. Did either of them help you see people in a respective light?

[CubsterShura]

Islamic values are so much better. Desi values teach you to be arrogant. Islamic values teach you to be humble. Desi values is all about, light skin, pretty face, slim body, high income etc. As per Islamic values, the only thing that makes a person superior to others is his well-being.

I really dislike Desi values.

[JDavid25]

Aw okie, I can see that..

[TechOnLose]

My god how fragile can you be as a person? All of us have to take other people's bullshit daily, some get bullied other abused, being male or female alike, of course, this practice isn't anything close to good, but for real now? Can't you worry about females getting stoned to death in the middle east? Or that they are actually treated like animals there, but oh no the big bad western capitalist system is letting all this happen to you, my god, so many butthurt snowflakes. And this is what you are concerned about, this catcalling bs?

[Jadelemme]

You severely missed the key concept here, maybe work on your critical thinking and it would help you understand basic topics more; for the better of yourself and this website. Not hate, just an encouragement

[CubsterShura]

This wasn't even meant to be related with feminism.

This wasn't even meant to say that catcalling is good or bad. I simply pointed out the outcome of it and wanted to say that whether or not you think it is okay to do, it is not worth it.

Catcalling isn't bs. This is exactly why I posted this. To say that it can cause much greater of a harm than what you could ever imagine.

Still good try comparing this post with feminism, cause again, I didn't mean to make it a feminist post. lol.

[oddwaffle]

It's a simple Nash equalibrium. If you cat call, you get fun and she leaves or she might turn around once in a blue moon. If you don't cat call, you get not fun and she ignores you and leaves. Therefore: cat call.

How often do you notice a random somebody who you don't see or hear?

Sure cat calling is a dumb way to make one noticable but it's a very cheap way to do it. It's like spam email. You just mail a hundred million. There is bound to be someone on the hook. If not then you spam to the billions in 2 sec.

[CubsterShura]

The best that can happen is that nothing happens and you both forget. The worst that can happen is... I mentioned it. It's not worth the risk.

[oddwaffle]

You can't stop people from sending ads to your door. It's the same with this. It's normal. You don't like it but that's what it is.

Unless you want to have a huge sign saying "No Cat Calling Accepted" whenever you are walking around.

[CubsterShura]

Sending ads to door has a purpose. Catcalling has no purpose. Ads don't come with uncertainty and threat. Ads don't disrespect your personal space.

It is so ridiculous that you compared ad with catcalling. Seriously, bro? SERIOUSLY?

If you really think that ads and catcalling are the same thing, then you don't know what catcalling is.

[oddwaffle]

It is the same. You are just trying to link threats and cat calling. It's like linking ads and scams together.

And you know why. One of them is illegal.

[CubsterShura]

Because catcalling CAN lead to threats. I never said that they always do. But the probability of catcalling leading to something more than that is scary.

[oddwaffle]

Walking on the pavement can lead to car accidents.

Driving a car can also kill you.

Getting drunk can cause you to kill other people.

Your chance of being killed by a vending machine is higher than being killed by a shark.

Because something might lead to something isn't a reason even if the chances are higher.

[CubsterShura]

Tomorrow isn't guaranteed for anyone. But you can't compare it with catcalling. Because the things you listed are unfortunate events that we cannot control. But catcalling CAN be controlled.

[oddwaffle]

Driving can also be controlled.

Drinking can also be controlled.

You can also work at home and reduce exposure to going outside.

[CubsterShura]

I already avoid going outside much lol. But this is never the solution. It has never been, and it never will be a solution It's like saying that you should not have kids at all because they can end up being murdered or be murdered themselves, lol. The only solution is proper guidance.

[Unit1]

You have invited me like I'm someone, who "catcalls" women when I have never done so. And I am a kissless virgin, who never had a girlfriend. Did I miss anything?

But I mean for real now: if sentences like "Hey there, beautiful." or "Good looking!" towards women are what is described CATCALLING, then how are men supposed to find a girlfriend when these 'compliments' are considered catcalling or harassment? Am I missing something?

[CubsterShura]

I invited you to read this. I don't know whether or not you catcall, and it doesn't matter.

Regarding your question, you should be saying it only where it's appropriate. There is a place for finding a girlfriend and there is a way of approaching them. The street isn't the place, and yelling from the other end of the road is not the way.

[Unit1]

Okay i guess 😐 🤷
👩👩👩

[lumos]

"If the girl gets scared by what you did and it limits her freedom outdoors, it IS your responsibility."

This. So much. Basically sums it all up. It's like telling a victim of bullying that they're at fault for feeling like shit, and as if it's simply their own fault for not being thick-skinned enough. You know, instead of addressing the *actual* problem, which is that bullies are bullying that person in the first place. It's sickening how little people seem to understand that their words can and do affect other people, and sometimes in a very bad way. Even though some girls might enjoy catcalling, I'd say that the negative consequences of catcalling the wrong person just isn't worth it. Keep it to yourself.

[CasaNorba]

I been catcalled numerous of times. I also been harassed too since one day a girl decided to sing this song in my ear during the time lunch ended and we were all going back to our classes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq-Ru6kQhE4

and during high school i remember some girls sang this one behind me when I used to sag my pants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf4yHgXdjPY

so if right now you have the need to rant about these things you probably just pissed that nobody has catcalled you in your life

[CubsterShura]

I am pissed that I am catcalled way too much in my life, lol. No one should catcall and some girls catcalling you doesn't justify guys catcalling girls as well.

[CasaNorba]

i never said its right for guys to catcall girls. all i was saying was that this is a double lane road and women actually get away with it a lot more

[CubsterShura]

It is not appropriate for anyone to do it. Not even for girls to do it to boys.

[loveslongnails]

On catcalling itself --- yes, it's rude and tasteless, and there's no need for it. Now here's a point I want to make. People on this planet do stupid things, ALL the time. To suggest that a woman could be traumatized and scarred deeply, which to me means a life long event, by a cat call, is ridiculous. You won't make it through this world if you don't have tougher skin than that. It's NOT a catastrophic event, it's something you ignore. And your extreme case scenario only proves the father in the family has a REAL issue and is completely backwards. The woman gets a beating because some stupid males whistles at her, or calls her a name? The WOMAN gets the beating? I guess she wasn't dressed "modestly" enough? That's crazy. Please don't tell me it's a "cultural" thing... it's still crazy. So yes, catcalling is stupid, but lots of stupid, rude people and things will come into your world. If you let these meaningless people "scar" you forever, that's on you.

[morgan_larson]

But why should men’s and boys be allowed to sexualise a woman like that. It makes women feel unsafe walking down a street, makes her feel slutty and disrespected. Would you like to feel like that through your life?

[yoshi_wanna_ask]

I'm pretty sure it's not just one "hey good lookin!" that she's talking about but not being able to take the short way to work because every time she turns that corner it's "Didn't I say she can't stay away from this dick?" "Oh honey comin for some sugar" "You look as good leaving as you do coming, wanna prove it?" A catcall is different from catcall*ing*

And a lot of women are blamed for being catcalled. Socially, by their friends, by their families, by their colleagues "I guess it wasn't your outfit, maybe something you did" but for more extreme parents & even some islamist women I've known their fathers have beaten them for being catcalled "You must have done something or they would have left you alone". It might not be 80% of women but is that what really matters?

I'm not a women who think this discussion, any discussion, should just be "guys should be trashed" but including all sides & moving forward together. For some people shock stats are what it takes to start a conversation

[CubsterShura]

One case of catcalling isn't significant, but I am definitely not happy about being catcalled for 7 years.

[loveslongnails]

@yoshi_wanna_ask This -----> "I guess it wasn't your outfit, maybe something you did" or this --------> " "You must have done something or they would have left you alone" and this ------> " "more extreme parents & even some islamist women I've known their fathers have beaten them for being catcalled" is an Islamic problem, or any other religion/culture that similarly allows men to be abusive, rude and crude towards women !! It's rooted in how men are empowered to "think" about women the way they do, and to act with impunity. Then to reinforce this, the woman is told "it must be YOUR fault" for enticing them somehow. So... let's put something on your head, and wrap you in a garment covering everything but your eyes, because anything less than that is just asking to molested both verbally and physically. The problem is with the men and what they believe they're entitled to and how most any treatment of women is acceptable.

[loveslongnails]

Please read my comment to Yoshi. Also, in no civilized country is it "OK" to act tastelessly and/or disrespectfully towards anyone. In this country (USA), a woman doesn't get scorned or beaten because she's catcalled. In THIS country, she will probably either ignore it, shake her head, maybe return an obscene gesture, or turn around and kick the guy in the balls. Technically, that's assault, and not a good behavior. Lots of things are screwed up here, yes, but in no way is a woman, even if dressed provocatively, blamed for men acting badly. And it's not the action of being catcalled that causes any damage, it's the response to it by your elders and your culture. The depression and anxiety you experience is caused because YOU are FALSELY made to feel "guilty" for another's bad behavior... and some of you believe it !! Why wouldn't you if that's the accepted practice? So to me, what is worse than the cat calling itself are the deeply rooted ideologies that promote it.

[loveslongnails]

@morgan_larson @morgan_larson I agree it feels threatening, much more so in her country, but the only way she would feel slutty is if she herself knows it's true. It's like being called a liar when you know you haven't. YOU know what's true. Now, if you wanted to make catcalling a crime, arguing that it is a form of verbal assault or hate speech, that's a different matter. It would be difficult to enforce unless you have video of it. You ask: "Would you like to feel like that through your life?" No, of course not, but it's the cultural tolerance and ass backwards way of dealing with it that's the cause. I'm not a woman and certainly not Islamic, so I can't really say what I'd be thinking if I were both those things. All I can "imagine" I would be thinking is "I'm not doing anything wrong so don't try and tell me that I am - it's THEM !"

[CubsterShura]

It is not necessarily something that has to be punished always... but it is still something no one should be doing.

[loveslongnails]

I agree with you... but the whole "idea" that it's somehow YOUR FAULT, the woman's fault, is ridiculous. Nothing in your culture is going to change about it while that's the prevailing, accepted behavior.