I've never been cat called but when i walked home from school every day, frat bros would yell out "fuck you" or other dumb things like that to try and startle me as they drove by.
i really don't know why people do that. i guess because they're insecure and want to make other people feel as bad inside as they do?
I don't really think that catcalling is such an issue, but I do know that most women don't interpret it the way men think they do. It can be flattering or funny at times, but most of the time it just makes me think that the guy is just too shy to actually stop and talk to me. And it goes for both genders too, I know girls that whistle and call at guys walking past, and I know guys that wouldn't take it well. I'm sorry that you feel as though these guys took your innocence away, and yes I agree that it was immature for them to be acting that way. But honestly, I think it's less of an issue about the guys than it is the people who blamed you for their behaviour.
Oh get over yourself! How weak do you have to be to let catcalling bother you?
"It does cause depression and insecurity."
Unless you're living in the middle east, just ignore the guys and go on about your day. Jesus Christ, how thin-skinned are you people that someone catcalling you *causes depression?*
Nobody is hurting you, you're just being a spineless chump. Grow a spine and stop giving a shit what other people say. If nobody is being violent (fuck that bitch who slapped you btw) then you can ignore them.
I'm 14. I've experienced cat calling since I was 10 years old. So have most other girls I know. I'd like to see you telling 10 yr old me who was just cat called by someone three times her age to 'get over herself'. Develop empathy.
I don't personally catcall because I view it as obnoxious behavior but saying catcalls by themselves cause depression is silly in my opinion.
Surely you understand that with how radical third-wave, intersectional feminism is along with #MeeToo, that meant like myself are much less likely to take catcalling seriously due to Hell heavily-favored women are by society as it is (in the west).
Here's the quick and dirty about catcalling... 1. The people who do it (male and female) are always garbage humans. It's never anyone of an upstanding social class. No one in a suit catcalls.
2. Although it's stupid, Catcalling is NOT harassment or dangerous. Women who claim they are "afraid" when catcalled need to get over their victim complex.
2. I don't necessarily believe that catcalling on itself isn't harassment either, but is is disrespectful.
One incident of catcalling isn't scary, but when it happens quite a lot over the years, the idea of being catcalled on your way to school and way back home is scary, for example.
I agree, But it's also disrespectful when females expose and parade their sexual parts in public for sexual attention (especially around children), and expecting society to simply accept it.
I respect that. It's nice to see females with morals (even if they are enforced by dictate.)
But when it comes to people getting catcalled when dressed conservatively... It goes back to the class of the person doing the catcalling. It's almost always scummy garbage humans.
Lol true. I have girl friends who wear burkha and still get stalked and catcalled. And it's mostly the type of boys that you said. These dudes have way too much free time in their hands. -.-
When you don’t know how far a guy is gonna go when he catcalls you it is scary. You think is he going to start following the me? Should I call someone? What do I do if he attacks me?
@Hannajenky Age doesn't matter when it comes to some garbage human beings. I remember being down the street with friends when I was 10 (most of them where 12) and having two 50 something guys and a 3 15/16 year old guys leer at my friends & make comments and we were literally wearing our navy long skirt uniforms. Garbage people will be garbage.
Your emotional reaction (fear) is yours alone. No one causes you to feel scared walking down the street alone. It is your feeling, and no one else but you is responsible for that feeling except for you. You would prefer to limit the freedom of others rather than try to deal with YOUR OWN emotional state. It’s is extremely childish behavior.
You are no one to call my fear irrational. The one who causes the fear, IS responsible for it regardless of what he anticipates. If you pat someone but end up slapping them, you hurt them even if that wasn't your intention. You can't tell the person that you got pain it's your fault. Lol I am tired of your logic. Is it so difficult, SO DIFFICULT, to not catcall? Do you have to pay tax to keep quiet?
"you better be silent if you have nothing good to say" ~ guess I'm staying silent 😂
BUT I have one complaint -
"cause this myTake is going to be very short and straightforward" - sure was straightforward but NOT SHORT at all 😂
And apart from that I'd agree with everything else, specially the part "I did it to compliment her..." - if someone wants to compliment others, there's a decent and polite way to do it rather than passing remarks in a humiliating way.
I wish for one year, just one-year unmarried men would lose all their sex drive and interest in approaching women (and straight guys would remain straight, but just saying). For this period of time women would be forced to self-reflect and understand their own psychology better.
My guess they would initially be relieved... maybe a couple days up to a couple of weeks. However after that time period wears off women would go insane from the lack of attention. They would be happy and likely desperate to bring back male sex drive in all its glory virtues and evils alike.
I wouldn't mind being a monk for a year (only one year though).
You know, we're not at all bothered that men have sex drives or sometimes pay sexual attention to us. Catcalling is not really about sex though. It's about telling that woman she doesn't have a right to freely mix in society, unthreatened. It's just using sexual intimidation to accomplish that.
This isn’t just about catcalling. I’ve never done that in my entire life. It more about women calling ANY guy they don’t like a creep just because they stare for an extra second and they don’t find him attractive. It’s now male sexuality is mocked and demonized.
I don’t like aggressive stalkerish men anymore than you do.
Except it doesn't really. Catcalling is very specific. And men don't get to be the ones who decide if it's acceptable or not. We're telling you we know why you do it, it's bullshit, and you need to stop. Catcalling.
Other arguments can be made about other overt sexual displays, and we can cover them one by one.
Men are not demons. Catcalling is wrong. Stop doing it. It's not brain surgery.
@Hannajenky We get to decide as much as any members of society get to decide. There's no virtue in defending catcalling. It's not a defensible activity. I'm not talking about every other activity that is not catcalling. Just catcalling. Guys want to persist in being assholes, fewer women will be interested in them. It's sort of simple mathematics.
Are other activities as black and white as this? No. There's grey area if we try discuss all forms of sexually inappropriate behavior. But there's really no grey area on catcalling. It's universally rude, even if women get used to it. No man has to do it. Why they do it is out of a desire to be rude. No one has to smile and say it's ok. And perhaps that will help people learn to behave a little more respectfully in public.
@MlleCake compelling people to be respectful is not real respect. It is not men’s responsibility to mind read what eachh women believes is respectful and act accordingly. Catcalling is not a big deal. Im sure there are some jerks in the world. Wow, what a revelation.
It is not other people’s responsibility to care about how you feel. Walking around with ptsd because you have been taught to be a victim your whole life is not virtuous either
@Hannajenky completely agree with what you said right there. Amen.
The biggest problem with the #metoo movement is that it’s based on a women’s emotional judgement and feelings. There is no hard guidelines on how men should behave when pursuing women. One guy might be cute, funny and confident if he approaches a woman who finds him attractive, another guy might say the exact same thing and be a disgusting creep if the woman doesn’t find him attractive.
I’ve always been respectful and if I say something that upsets a woman I apologize. But women consider that “beta” behavior. It’s extremely confusing.
Anyway I agree that catcalling is rude and creepy, I never do it. It’s not going to get me laid. But I can’t help think that women feel flattered if the guy catcalling them is attractive.
@Hannajenky For some of us it's no big deal, but it doesn't come from any place of decency. It's simply unnecessary verbal violence. That many of us let it roll off our back doesn't make it any less so. I'm not talking about throwing men in jail over it. I'm talking about just calling it what it is and let men decide for themselves what kind of men they want to be.
Yep. It comes from ill intent and it's meant to be hurtful. Men know why they do it. Women know why men do it. No reason to lie about what it is. It's not a fucking mystery.
Ok ok. Honestly until women quit romantically rejecting polite “beta” men this crap will forever continue. If women had the self control to turn down every aggressive asshole in the world we would live in a much better place. But you and I know that will never happen.
Again there are no clear guidelines for men to be successful with women. This #metoo movement is only going to make things even worse.
And I agree with you that there are no clear guidelines for all of this. But THIS one IS pretty clear, so, if men are sincere about trying to figure out how to live more peaceably and openly with women, so we all get all the nasty fuckery we jointly desire, hear us when we say. catcalling is not helping you. It makes us more closed off to sex.
If you don't make an effort to know a woman, you're not likely to figure out in which ways she desires your aggressiveness. If you get to know us, you can make adjustments to suit the women you desire, and if we like you, we'll make adjustments too. It's part of the learning process we all go through.
Women don't fuck the guys who catcall us. It isn't about wooing us. You know that. We know that. So what the fuck is it about, and why do I have to be the object a guy projects his sexual demons onto when I am just putting gas in my car? Or walking up the block?
I mean, it doesn't kill me now. But it was pretty fucked up when I was 9.
@MlleCake because chances are these catcalling dbags have acted douchey in other ways (besides catcalling) that HAS gotten them laid. It’s a power trip for them. It’s not right but I’m just saying
@MlleCake@MlleCake would you consider it harassment if a nicely dressed man in a suit politely stood on the street corner and asked all the women he found attractive who happened to walk by if they would like to have sex tonight? Something like, excuse me maam, would like like to make love with me tonight?
At want point are you demonizing humans for attempting to interact with other humans.
By your standards, no one should ever speak to anyone else because if you happened to say hello to a bipolar schizophrenic it would hurt their feelings.
@Hannajenky No, those aren't my standards. That's you trying to apply what I said to more than I am referring to. Yes, that would be offensive. It doesn't matter how he's dressed or how he says it, if a man is just shooting off sex demands to random strangers, he's being a deliberate cocksucker of a guy. He's not doing to to be nice, or get a date. He's doing it to be shitty. I'm still going to call it shitty.
I'm not talking about anything but catcalling. One simple activity. Just catcalling. Everyone know's it's rude. It's not a mystery.
@MlleCake so a shitty guy is politely asking women he finds attractive if they would like to sleep with him. he's not demanding anything. Aren’t there a lot of shitty peoplein the world?
@Hannajenky That isn't polite. It's not polite to sexually approach every random woman you see. No one thinks it is, least of all the men doing it. If you think it's polite you're a nutcase.
I'm not talkin crazy here, and I am not going to keep arguing with you about it. You're wrong to defend catcalling.
'There is no hard guidelines on how men should behave when pursuing women.' DON'T approach a woman unless you either intend to be friends with her or marry her. And when you do, do it in a decent manner.
'Women dont get to decide what men can or can't say.' None of us can ever decide for others what they can say. But we can teach people to be human beings and think twice before they say or do anything.
'It is not men’s responsibility to mind read what eachh women believes is respectful and act accordingly.' exactly why men shouldn't catcall.
'compelling people to be respectful is not real respect.' no one is compelling anyone to do anything here.
'It is not other people’s responsibility to care about how you feel.' I have the right to say hurtful things but it is not my responsibility if anyone gets hurt. Hypocrisy at its finest.
you're young and naive. But at least you are from a country where real and more blatant sexism is happening. In the United States and other western countries, women have it better than women have had it in ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY. And yet some are marching around with vagina hats.
Only really dumb and retarded guys do this kind if shit. If we want to stop it, we need to develop intelligence, manners and education in young boys. That being said, any girl who is going to be "scarred and traumatized" because of catcalling might as well blow her fucking brains out right away, because this world is a scary and awful place, there are SO MANY immesurably worse things than some random fucktard on the street saying dumb shit to you. If you can't handle that, you aren't fit for living in this world, and you should find somebody to take care if you, like disabled people do. I know it sounds harsh, but sadly thats the way things are.
Trying to brush their bodies against you is different, thats a form of sexual assault, and is a serious thing. But random assholes saying bad things to you shouldn't be able to hurt any adult in any way. Words can't hurt, even though we teach kids differently
As I said, you need to toughen up then. An adult can't allow themselves to be that super sensitive. I grew up in a town full of drugs, crime, fights, prostitution etc. I've had to go through some truly awful shit, I even earned PTSD along the way, but I survived. And I dont whine about it. While you are upset because somebody talked dumb shit while you were walking by. Thats not even an actual problem, especially not a trauma. Suck it up. I wish the world was this beautiful safe place so we could all have the luxury to be hurt by words and other harmless irrelevant shit, but the truth is the world is a terrible scary place, and if a person can't fight and survive, they will get eaten alive. In the words of Axl Rose "you are in the jungle baby, you are gonna die!"
True, but thats literally never going to happen, stupid guys will always exist. So basically if you dont start acting like an adult, you will suffer your whole life
lol don't walk past construction sites or go downtown and you'll be fine :P everyone has the right to say w/e the fuck they want, you can get mad about it all you want but as long as they respect your personal space you have to ground to stand on. They are fully within their rights. I personally don't do it because the only girls that would like it are the kind I'm not interested in
Construction workers and men downtown do it a great deal, but they are not the only ones who do it. Just because the law allows something doesn't make it something you should go around doing. There is no law to my knowledge against giving every stranger you meet the finger, but that doesn't mean you should do it.
'might wanna consider a burka' I have been thinking of it, but my friends who wear it get catcalled as well, so... guys who do it, do it to any girl actually.
1. Pretty much 99.9% of women who are catcalling are dressed in something that is worn to "look sexy". 2. Pretty much all women respond positive to men whom are loud, obnoxious, jerk-like, and bad.
Yes women complain about being catcalled.
So how to men choose if they should be catcalling or not catcalling if men who catcall are getting countless amounts of women while nice guys who are sure to be loyal and offer great companionship are left along for years doing so stupid awkward hobby until suicide.
I just want to say as wrong as it is for guys to intentionally make girls feel unsafe in public, it's even more wrong for your parents to punish you for those guys' behaviour.
Yeah it is. Most boys don't think what they are doing before they do it. Of course the ones who catcalled me thought that it's a one-time thing. They will never understand what harm it has caused me.
And this is exactly why boys shouldn't catcall in the first place.
I want to understand why you want all guys to stop doing shit instead of wanting your parents to stop doing shit. I'd think it's much easier to stop two people than half the population in the country.
Catcalling is not a big deal unless they are threatening you with violence. If catcalling traumatizes you then i suggest you stay indoors because to be that sensitive is a little pathetic.
Im tired of hearing about manspreading and catcalling. It’s ridiculous and tbh it is b. s.
It has become hip to label yourself as a victim. Real women are not victims. Life is not fair.
If you dont want people to look at you or talk to you then stay inside.
Well, I'm totally against catcall. But I just don't get one point. I've seen girls enjoy being catcalled. When i asked about it to one of my friend she said catcalling should be done so that the girl will feel good about her. She said the compliments should be non sexual and must have limit.
' "Some girls like it!" Keyword: SOME. Not all of us. Yeah, I understand too some women like it and it's fine. It really is. All people are different. But you can't tell who likes being catcalled and who doesn't. '
Sadly the men that do it are a quite sad really. They think they are being macho but they just show how stupid they really are . I was working on a site and these lads started doing it , I churpped up how would you feel if that was your daughter and they stopped !!!
" cause this myTake is going to be very short and straightforward."
2 and a half pages later... Yea, no it isn't. People get heckled on the street. Whoopty doo. You can't punish people for using words without starting to infringe on the first amendment. The UK just convicted a man for making a joke about his girlfriend's dog being a Nazi. Is that really the reality you want. Grow some thicker skin.
I said it empirically, meaning you're the one who has to do it. I don't need to grow thicker skin. I have it already. The biggest fallacy your generation believes is that offense is given. It is not. Offense is only taken, and taking offense is a choice. It is a conscious decision. You can elect not to take offense and go about your day, but no one else is responsible for your choices but you.
As if the internet was existing and easily accessible for the past generation! Once upon a time girls didn't go to school, and they didn't complain about that either.
More like they're vomiting up half-witted drivel that no one needs to hear, and spending hours of their day staring at a phone or computer screen rather than being active participants in their world.
You know, it's funny. You not only chastised but completely dismissed my take that I wrote about the pressures of women in society, yet here you come boohooing what a poor soul you are being catcalled and not being able to play outside. Not only are you confirming many things that play into what I wrote, but you are making yourself out to be the victim and expect people to have sympathy for you. Get over yourself and suck it up.
If you have a problem with somebody doing something, you should take it up with that specific person, then and there. Take pepper spray or a bat or a gun if you want, I'm not saying get yourself killed, but if somebody does something, and you don't like it, you should tell THEM, not strangers online.
And if it doesn't bother you enough for you to be willing to do that, then it doesn't really bother you, you're just whining.
Where in the definition of catcalling does "stalking and bullying" fit in? That sounds more like harrassment.
Honestly, I couldn't care less about somebody yelling a compliment, or whistling at me, or whatever. What's the point in giving a crap, sincerely? Is it useful in any way for a woman to have that thin skin? (Again, going off my view that catcalling is not the same as harassment, ie stalking, threatening or bullying).
It's embarrassing and demeaning, but I've never been scared. Just pissed off... imagine walking through a parking lot with your parents when you're 13 and having grown men loudly call you Tits Magee and ask you to flash them. That will stick with you for life. Men who act like this are selfish and need a good luck in the junk. Grow up!
I have never catcalled but I have under my breath and to friends with me States how lovely or beautiful I think a girl is.
Some sounds I might do is a swoosh like sound of admiration or a sigh of longing for a girl like that. "Oh man" and "wow" are things I'll say to myself.
I always thought it was unprofessional but I don't think people should get so offended.
It's only offensive if you take it that way. I could say that I don't like country music. Someone is going to be offended even though it is not an offensive thing. I could say that I prefer a woman who doesn't sleep around, someone will be offended. I can scratch my head and a little dandruff will fall out and someone will be offended.
As for things society deems offensive, that's because we have all bought into the same idea. 10 years ago if a boy said be was a girl, he'd be laughed at for his idiocy. Today, if we don't buy into his belief then it is offensive. Nothing is offensive unless we let it.
One or two remarks are harmless. One incident alone is insignificant.
But when it happens quite a lot...
I won't really say that catcalling ever offended me. It is offensive, yeah, but the remarks themselves, I don't take them seriously. But it's... frustrating. Annoying.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
63Opinion
yea, cat calling is stupid.
I've never been cat called but when i walked home from school every day, frat bros would yell out "fuck you" or other dumb things like that to try and startle me as they drove by.
i really don't know why people do that. i guess because they're insecure and want to make other people feel as bad inside as they do?
The sad thing is that in some cultures, girls take it as a compliment and they used to here.
media.salon.com/.../...59.58-PM-e1414616580622.png
Sometimes it even goes the other way.
i.ytimg.com/vi/0mF0Ul0BJrs/maxresdefault.jpg
This is part of the reason Western girls are becoming more useless. The sexual politics is killing relationships.
I don't really think that catcalling is such an issue, but I do know that most women don't interpret it the way men think they do. It can be flattering or funny at times, but most of the time it just makes me think that the guy is just too shy to actually stop and talk to me. And it goes for both genders too, I know girls that whistle and call at guys walking past, and I know guys that wouldn't take it well. I'm sorry that you feel as though these guys took your innocence away, and yes I agree that it was immature for them to be acting that way. But honestly, I think it's less of an issue about the guys than it is the people who blamed you for their behaviour.
Oh get over yourself! How weak do you have to be to let catcalling bother you?
"It does cause depression and insecurity."
Unless you're living in the middle east, just ignore the guys and go on about your day. Jesus Christ, how thin-skinned are you people that someone catcalling you *causes depression?*
Nobody is hurting you, you're just being a spineless chump. Grow a spine and stop giving a shit what other people say. If nobody is being violent (fuck that bitch who slapped you btw) then you can ignore them.
If you want a safe space, go home!
I'm 14. I've experienced cat calling since I was 10 years old. So have most other girls I know.
I'd like to see you telling 10 yr old me who was just cat called by someone three times her age to 'get over herself'. Develop empathy.
@callie88 Catcalling adults is different from catcalling children. Pedophilia is gross.
Catcallers just can't identify who is an adult and then catcall them. Some girls look more mature at a young age.
But.. 10 years old? By adults? Ew..
I hope they were mostly other boys and not men.
The fact is that, I looked more grown-up than my age especially since I was 13 I already looked like an adult.
One more reason you shouldn't catcall. Sometimes it is hard to tell whether or not a girl is an adult.
I don't personally catcall because I view it as obnoxious behavior but saying catcalls by themselves cause depression is silly in my opinion.
Surely you understand that with how radical third-wave, intersectional feminism is along with #MeeToo, that meant like myself are much less likely to take catcalling seriously due to Hell heavily-favored women are by society as it is (in the west).
Do not bring third wave, fifth wave, or any wave feminism here, because I won't talk about it.
Yeah I can't stand to talk about those harpies either half the time.
Here's the quick and dirty about catcalling...
1. The people who do it (male and female) are always garbage humans.
It's never anyone of an upstanding social class. No one in a suit catcalls.
2. Although it's stupid, Catcalling is NOT harassment or dangerous.
Women who claim they are "afraid" when catcalled need to get over their victim complex.
2. I don't necessarily believe that catcalling on itself isn't harassment either, but is is disrespectful.
One incident of catcalling isn't scary, but when it happens quite a lot over the years, the idea of being catcalled on your way to school and way back home is scary, for example.
I agree,
But it's also disrespectful when females expose and parade their sexual parts in public for sexual attention (especially around children), and expecting society to simply accept it.
I'm Muslim and I dress conservatively so I better not talk to you about clothes.
I respect that. It's nice to see females with morals (even if they are enforced by dictate.)
But when it comes to people getting catcalled when dressed conservatively... It goes back to the class of the person doing the catcalling. It's almost always scummy garbage humans.
Lol true. I have girl friends who wear burkha and still get stalked and catcalled. And it's mostly the type of boys that you said. These dudes have way too much free time in their hands. -.-
Over the years? You are only 17
When you don’t know how far a guy is gonna go when he catcalls you it is scary. You think is he going to start following the me? Should I call someone? What do I do if he attacks me?
@Hannajenky Age doesn't matter when it comes to some garbage human beings. I remember being down the street with friends when I was 10 (most of them where 12) and having two 50 something guys and a 3 15/16 year old guys leer at my friends & make comments and we were literally wearing our navy long skirt uniforms. Garbage people will be garbage.
@Hannajenky Sad truth, yeah. Disappointing, right? I feel the same too.
@morgan_larson your reply was spot-on.
A man is more likely to be randomly assaulted. Your fear is not valid.
@Hannajenky So now I have to validate my fear with your words? Who are you?
Irrational emotions are not a valid argument to limit someone else’s free speech. It may be tough to swallow but it is true
Your emotional reaction (fear) is yours alone. No one causes you to feel scared walking down the street alone. It is your feeling, and no one else but you is responsible for that feeling except for you. You would prefer to limit the freedom of others rather than try to deal with YOUR OWN emotional state. It’s is extremely childish behavior.
You are no one to call my fear irrational. The one who causes the fear, IS responsible for it regardless of what he anticipates. If you pat someone but end up slapping them, you hurt them even if that wasn't your intention. You can't tell the person that you got pain it's your fault. Lol I am tired of your logic. Is it so difficult, SO DIFFICULT, to not catcall? Do you have to pay tax to keep quiet?
"you better be silent if you have nothing good to say" ~ guess I'm staying silent 😂
BUT I have one complaint -
"cause this myTake is going to be very short and straightforward" - sure was straightforward but NOT SHORT at all 😂
And apart from that I'd agree with everything else, specially the part "I did it to compliment her..." - if someone wants to compliment others, there's a decent and polite way to do it rather than passing remarks in a humiliating way.
😊😊😊
It is shorter than all other myTakes that I write.
😝 comparison
I wish for one year, just one-year unmarried men would lose all their sex drive and interest in approaching women (and straight guys would remain straight, but just saying). For this period of time women would be forced to self-reflect and understand their own psychology better.
My guess they would initially be relieved... maybe a couple days up to a couple of weeks. However after that time period wears off women would go insane from the lack of attention. They would be happy and likely desperate to bring back male sex drive in all its glory virtues and evils alike.
I wouldn't mind being a monk for a year (only one year though).
What does male sex drive even have to do with catcalling?
I'm tired of y'all and our whimsical nature.
if it went away all your wishes would be answered. A guy wouldn't even second glance you for an entire year no matter if you like him or not.
It's impossible of course. But if I found the genie in the lamp I would ask for it.
You know, we're not at all bothered that men have sex drives or sometimes pay sexual attention to us. Catcalling is not really about sex though. It's about telling that woman she doesn't have a right to freely mix in society, unthreatened. It's just using sexual intimidation to accomplish that.
Men who can't control their sex drive don't deserve having their sex drive tbh.
How do you think men who don't catcall exist? Are they all... asexual?
This isn’t just about catcalling. I’ve never done that in my entire life. It more about women calling ANY guy they don’t like a creep just because they stare for an extra second and they don’t find him attractive. It’s now male sexuality is mocked and demonized.
I don’t like aggressive stalkerish men anymore than you do.
This IS about catcalling. That's the damn topic of the question.
@MlleCake yeah but it starts the slippery slope on other ways to demonize men.
Except it doesn't really. Catcalling is very specific. And men don't get to be the ones who decide if it's acceptable or not. We're telling you we know why you do it, it's bullshit, and you need to stop. Catcalling.
Other arguments can be made about other overt sexual displays, and we can cover them one by one.
Men are not demons. Catcalling is wrong. Stop doing it. It's not brain surgery.
Women dont get to decide what men can or can't say. Thank god
@Hannajenky We get to decide as much as any members of society get to decide. There's no virtue in defending catcalling. It's not a defensible activity. I'm not talking about every other activity that is not catcalling. Just catcalling. Guys want to persist in being assholes, fewer women will be interested in them. It's sort of simple mathematics.
Are other activities as black and white as this? No. There's grey area if we try discuss all forms of sexually inappropriate behavior. But there's really no grey area on catcalling. It's universally rude, even if women get used to it. No man has to do it. Why they do it is out of a desire to be rude. No one has to smile and say it's ok. And perhaps that will help people learn to behave a little more respectfully in public.
@MlleCake compelling people to be respectful is not real respect. It is not men’s responsibility to mind read what eachh women believes is respectful and act accordingly. Catcalling is not a big deal. Im sure there are some jerks in the world. Wow, what a revelation.
It is not other people’s responsibility to care about how you feel. Walking around with ptsd because you have been taught to be a victim your whole life is not virtuous either
@Hannajenky completely agree with what you said right there. Amen.
The biggest problem with the #metoo movement is that it’s based on a women’s emotional judgement and feelings. There is no hard guidelines on how men should behave when pursuing women. One guy might be cute, funny and confident if he approaches a woman who finds him attractive, another guy might say the exact same thing and be a disgusting creep if the woman doesn’t find him attractive.
I’ve always been respectful and if I say something that upsets a woman I apologize. But women consider that “beta” behavior. It’s extremely confusing.
Anyway I agree that catcalling is rude and creepy, I never do it. It’s not going to get me laid. But I can’t help think that women feel flattered if the guy catcalling them is attractive.
@Hannajenky For some of us it's no big deal, but it doesn't come from any place of decency. It's simply unnecessary verbal violence. That many of us let it roll off our back doesn't make it any less so. I'm not talking about throwing men in jail over it. I'm talking about just calling it what it is and let men decide for themselves what kind of men they want to be.
@MlleCake “verbal violence”
Yep. It comes from ill intent and it's meant to be hurtful. Men know why they do it. Women know why men do it. No reason to lie about what it is. It's not a fucking mystery.
@MlleCake I know it’s the horrible plague of microagressions.
Your words. Not mine.
@MlleCake I know we should pass speech code laws.
Ok ok. Honestly until women quit romantically rejecting polite “beta” men this crap will forever continue. If women had the self control to turn down every aggressive asshole in the world we would live in a much better place. But you and I know that will never happen.
Again there are no clear guidelines for men to be successful with women. This #metoo movement is only going to make things even worse.
And I agree with you that there are no clear guidelines for all of this. But THIS one IS pretty clear, so, if men are sincere about trying to figure out how to live more peaceably and openly with women, so we all get all the nasty fuckery we jointly desire, hear us when we say. catcalling is not helping you. It makes us more closed off to sex.
If you don't make an effort to know a woman, you're not likely to figure out in which ways she desires your aggressiveness. If you get to know us, you can make adjustments to suit the women you desire, and if we like you, we'll make adjustments too. It's part of the learning process we all go through.
Women don't fuck the guys who catcall us. It isn't about wooing us. You know that. We know that. So what the fuck is it about, and why do I have to be the object a guy projects his sexual demons onto when I am just putting gas in my car? Or walking up the block?
I mean, it doesn't kill me now. But it was pretty fucked up when I was 9.
@MlleCake because chances are these catcalling dbags have acted douchey in other ways (besides catcalling) that HAS gotten them laid. It’s a power trip for them. It’s not right but I’m just saying
Maybe it is, but we don't have to sit around defending catcalling just because it's common, and not easy to fix.
New generations of men can learn how to be respectful.
@MlleCake @MlleCake would you consider it harassment if a nicely dressed man in a suit politely stood on the street corner and asked all the women he found attractive who happened to walk by if they would like to have sex tonight? Something like, excuse me maam, would like like to make love with me tonight?
At want point are you demonizing humans for attempting to interact with other humans.
By your standards, no one should ever speak to anyone else because if you happened to say hello to a bipolar schizophrenic it would hurt their feelings.
@Hannajenky No, those aren't my standards. That's you trying to apply what I said to more than I am referring to. Yes, that would be offensive. It doesn't matter how he's dressed or how he says it, if a man is just shooting off sex demands to random strangers, he's being a deliberate cocksucker of a guy. He's not doing to to be nice, or get a date. He's doing it to be shitty. I'm still going to call it shitty.
I'm not talking about anything but catcalling. One simple activity. Just catcalling. Everyone know's it's rude. It's not a mystery.
@MlleCake so a shitty guy is politely asking women he finds attractive if they would like to sleep with him. he's not demanding anything. Aren’t there a lot of shitty peoplein the world?
@Hannajenky That isn't polite. It's not polite to sexually approach every random woman you see. No one thinks it is, least of all the men doing it. If you think it's polite you're a nutcase.
I'm not talkin crazy here, and I am not going to keep arguing with you about it. You're wrong to defend catcalling.
There is actually an experimental video on this
Im not defending catcalling i am defending free speech and free and open human interaction
@Hannajenky here it is www.news.com.au/.../8e14cc321a9a6bf2c249e81a148378d8
If feminists had their way this guy would be in jail, despite how polite he was
'There is no hard guidelines on how men should behave when pursuing women.' DON'T approach a woman unless you either intend to be friends with her or marry her. And when you do, do it in a decent manner.
'Women dont get to decide what men can or can't say.' None of us can ever decide for others what they can say. But we can teach people to be human beings and think twice before they say or do anything.
'It is not men’s responsibility to mind read what eachh women believes is respectful and act accordingly.' exactly why men shouldn't catcall.
'compelling people to be respectful is not real respect.' no one is compelling anyone to do anything here.
'It is not other people’s responsibility to care about how you feel.' I have the right to say hurtful things but it is not my responsibility if anyone gets hurt. Hypocrisy at its finest.
you're young and naive. But at least you are from a country where real and more blatant sexism is happening. In the United States and other western countries, women have it better than women have had it in ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY. And yet some are marching around with vagina hats.
Nah, I am more glad in here than America. Yeah we have some more struggles in some cases, but we have our own perks too.
Really? How so? I’m curious
Our families are more dynamic.
Only really dumb and retarded guys do this kind if shit. If we want to stop it, we need to develop intelligence, manners and education in young boys. That being said, any girl who is going to be "scarred and traumatized" because of catcalling might as well blow her fucking brains out right away, because this world is a scary and awful place, there are SO MANY immesurably worse things than some random fucktard on the street saying dumb shit to you. If you can't handle that, you aren't fit for living in this world, and you should find somebody to take care if you, like disabled people do. I know it sounds harsh, but sadly thats the way things are.
So yes I should get out of the house despite guys constantly calling me and trying to brush their bodies against mine.
Trying to brush their bodies against you is different, thats a form of sexual assault, and is a serious thing. But random assholes saying bad things to you shouldn't be able to hurt any adult in any way. Words can't hurt, even though we teach kids differently
One incident is harmless. But when it happens quite a lot, it can get frustrating over the years. I am being catcalled since I was 10.
As I said, you need to toughen up then. An adult can't allow themselves to be that super sensitive. I grew up in a town full of drugs, crime, fights, prostitution etc. I've had to go through some truly awful shit, I even earned PTSD along the way, but I survived. And I dont whine about it. While you are upset because somebody talked dumb shit while you were walking by. Thats not even an actual problem, especially not a trauma. Suck it up. I wish the world was this beautiful safe place so we could all have the luxury to be hurt by words and other harmless irrelevant shit, but the truth is the world is a terrible scary place, and if a person can't fight and survive, they will get eaten alive. In the words of Axl Rose "you are in the jungle baby, you are gonna die!"
It IS trauma if it is followed by uncertainty.
I stand by my words. You need to grow up.
I need to grow up in order to tolerate men's whimsical nature?
Wrong. Men need to grow up to have a better control of their whimsical nature.
True, but thats literally never going to happen, stupid guys will always exist. So basically if you dont start acting like an adult, you will suffer your whole life
Stupid people will always exist. But we just can't give in to them.
Thats my point exactly
Mine too. We can't give in to them. That's why we should be doing whatever it takes to decrease catcalling in areas where it happens way too much.
lol don't walk past construction sites or go downtown and you'll be fine :P everyone has the right to say w/e the fuck they want, you can get mad about it all you want but as long as they respect your personal space you have to ground to stand on. They are fully within their rights. I personally don't do it because the only girls that would like it are the kind I'm not interested in
Construction workers and men downtown do it a great deal, but they are not the only ones who do it. Just because the law allows something doesn't make it something you should go around doing. There is no law to my knowledge against giving every stranger you meet the finger, but that doesn't mean you should do it.
@Jackblue lol... you downvote my comment why? What about my comment makes you think I'm advocating for people to catcall?
'don't walk past construction sites or go downtown and you'll be fine' nope. I get catcalled literally everywhere.
I apologize if that was not your intention.
@Jackblue rofl like I said, what about my comment would signal that? Upvote me ye bastard :P
welp, I guess you're just too hot for society, might wanna consider a burka
Fine I gave you an upvote.
'might wanna consider a burka' I have been thinking of it, but my friends who wear it get catcalled as well, so... guys who do it, do it to any girl actually.
@Jackblue remove the downvote please
FFS just wear some fking headphones lol ignore them
Well, it's a little tough to figure out.
1. Pretty much 99.9% of women who are catcalling are dressed in something that is worn to "look sexy".
2. Pretty much all women respond positive to men whom are loud, obnoxious, jerk-like, and bad.
Yes women complain about being catcalled.
So how to men choose if they should be catcalling or not catcalling if men who catcall are getting countless amounts of women while nice guys who are sure to be loyal and offer great companionship are left along for years doing so stupid awkward hobby until suicide.
I just want to say as wrong as it is for guys to intentionally make girls feel unsafe in public, it's even more wrong for your parents to punish you for those guys' behaviour.
Yeah it is. Most boys don't think what they are doing before they do it. Of course the ones who catcalled me thought that it's a one-time thing. They will never understand what harm it has caused me.
And this is exactly why boys shouldn't catcall in the first place.
I want to understand why you want all guys to stop doing shit instead of wanting your parents to stop doing shit. I'd think it's much easier to stop two people than half the population in the country.
Catcalling is not a big deal unless they are threatening you with violence. If catcalling traumatizes you then i suggest you stay indoors because to be that sensitive is a little pathetic.
Im tired of hearing about manspreading and catcalling. It’s ridiculous and tbh it is b. s.
It has become hip to label yourself as a victim. Real women are not victims. Life is not fair.
If you dont want people to look at you or talk to you then stay inside.
Also, men are not responsible for your personal feeings. Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
YOU are the only one who is responsible for how YOU feel. Lmao. Feminists can be idiots.
Well, I'm totally against catcall. But I just don't get one point. I've seen girls enjoy being catcalled. When i asked about it to one of my friend she said catcalling should be done so that the girl will feel good about her. She said the compliments should be non sexual and must have limit.
I think your friend was being sarcastic. Also 99.9999999% of women hate it and feel threatened by it. Not just dislike it, HATE it.
Read my post again. I did mention it.
' "Some girls like it!" Keyword: SOME. Not all of us. Yeah, I understand too some women like it and it's fine. It really is. All people are different. But you can't tell who likes being catcalled and who doesn't. '
Sadly the men that do it are a quite sad really. They think they are being macho but they just show how stupid they really are . I was working on a site and these lads started doing it , I churpped up how would you feel if that was your daughter and they stopped !!!
" cause this myTake is going to be very short and straightforward."
2 and a half pages later... Yea, no it isn't. People get heckled on the street. Whoopty doo. You can't punish people for using words without starting to infringe on the first amendment. The UK just convicted a man for making a joke about his girlfriend's dog being a Nazi. Is that really the reality you want. Grow some thicker skin.
'Grow some thicker skin.' And who will grow it for me? You?
Easier said than done, lol.
I said it empirically, meaning you're the one who has to do it. I don't need to grow thicker skin. I have it already. The biggest fallacy your generation believes is that offense is given. It is not. Offense is only taken, and taking offense is a choice. It is a conscious decision. You can elect not to take offense and go about your day, but no one else is responsible for your choices but you.
Catcalling isn't something that just my generation faces. All generations faced it.
And yet yours is the only one who has bitched about it to no end. Curious that.
As if the internet was existing and easily accessible for the past generation!
Once upon a time girls didn't go to school, and they didn't complain about that either.
Yet further proof that social media makes us all dumber.
Nah. People are expressing stuff through social media that people could not speak of earlier.
More like they're vomiting up half-witted drivel that no one needs to hear, and spending hours of their day staring at a phone or computer screen rather than being active participants in their world.
Never underestimate the power of social media.
You know, it's funny. You not only chastised but completely dismissed my take that I wrote about the pressures of women in society, yet here you come boohooing what a poor soul you are being catcalled and not being able to play outside. Not only are you confirming many things that play into what I wrote, but you are making yourself out to be the victim and expect people to have sympathy for you. Get over yourself and suck it up.
If you have a problem with somebody doing something, you should take it up with that specific person, then and there. Take pepper spray or a bat or a gun if you want, I'm not saying get yourself killed, but if somebody does something, and you don't like it, you should tell THEM, not strangers online.
And if it doesn't bother you enough for you to be willing to do that, then it doesn't really bother you, you're just whining.
I did. And it caused another big traumatizing experience in my life that I didn't feel the need to mention here.
Life is too hard for some people. Must really suck.
Well, whatever happened caused dad to call the police. :')
Where are you from?
It's not necessary. But if you read my post properly you could have at least had an idea.
Where in the definition of catcalling does "stalking and bullying" fit in? That sounds more like harrassment.
Honestly, I couldn't care less about somebody yelling a compliment, or whistling at me, or whatever. What's the point in giving a crap, sincerely? Is it useful in any way for a woman to have that thin skin? (Again, going off my view that catcalling is not the same as harassment, ie stalking, threatening or bullying).
It's embarrassing and demeaning, but I've never been scared. Just pissed off... imagine walking through a parking lot with your parents when you're 13 and having grown men loudly call you Tits Magee and ask you to flash them. That will stick with you for life. Men who act like this are selfish and need a good luck in the junk. Grow up!
I have never catcalled but I have under my breath and to friends with me States how lovely or beautiful I think a girl is.
Some sounds I might do is a swoosh like sound of admiration or a sigh of longing for a girl like that. "Oh man" and "wow" are things I'll say to myself.
I always thought it was unprofessional but I don't think people should get so offended.
People will say something offensive and I won't get offended? Okay.
It's only offensive if you take it that way. I could say that I don't like country music. Someone is going to be offended even though it is not an offensive thing. I could say that I prefer a woman who doesn't sleep around, someone will be offended. I can scratch my head and a little dandruff will fall out and someone will be offended.
As for things society deems offensive, that's because we have all bought into the same idea. 10 years ago if a boy said be was a girl, he'd be laughed at for his idiocy. Today, if we don't buy into his belief then it is offensive. Nothing is offensive unless we let it.
One or two remarks are harmless. One incident alone is insignificant.
But when it happens quite a lot...
I won't really say that catcalling ever offended me. It is offensive, yeah, but the remarks themselves, I don't take them seriously. But it's... frustrating. Annoying.
Yeah it's disrespectful. I'm not gonna support it. I think it's kinda ungentlemanly.
You don't necessarily have to be a gentleman to be a good person.