At first I think it's very very good that the paragraph 13 didn't passed! And yes free speech means to hear things you would not hear, but I think at least this is the sense of it. That other people know what each think and if you like it or not is a different thing. It is not possible that everybody on the world thinks in the same way! So why to hide all the thinking differences?
In my opinion, people should be free to express any idea or position whether it's popular or not. Some people will never change their thinking or ideas anyway, no matter how much society wants to change them. People also brought the "guilt by association" into things.
This being said, I'll express that MacKinnon's extremist view that all heterosexual sex is rape very frightening and shall she be publicly shunned for her views. We shouldn't allow this to one day maybe become mainstream.
That feminist veiw is becoming mainstream. Not only is she not the only one to have it we see this in the rape culture myth and on regret sex becoming rape, and the mere accusation of rape or sexual jarassment are to be beleived.
@genuinelysensitive This does scare me a lot and I can only imagine what society will be like 10 years from now if these social trends continue in their direction.
It seems that George Orwell's 1984 , is being used by many " governments " worldwide as an instruction manual. There is growing , stealthy , censorship of those that do not subscribe to the Cultural Marxist PC views. Totally agree and good take , liberty is being removed by stealth... there are very powerful hidden agendas at work.
To feel that threatened is to have no security in one's own positions. Only an insecure, power-hungry tyrant is that terrified of their worldview being challenged.
The only time smen want to completely and totally control every word and thought of other men, is when they either believe they are doing God's work, or seeking to become gods themselves.
TLDR, but yes. Only the progressive left wants to limit speech. And the precious snowflakes on college campuses - all that 'hate speech' and they get 'triggered'. pfft. What a f'ing joke.
While I agree there is a disturbing amount on the political left right now, calling for censorship, there are also elements on the right, not in ascendancy, that would censor as well.
You're allowed to say whatever you feel like, but everyone around you has the right to disagree, as well as to force you to face your consequences. Thats life.
"everyone around you has the right to disagree" that is just free speech. As for "consequences" that is often just code for censorship, as with all of these hate speech (read censorship) laws. For instance the "consequence" under Hitler/Musalini/Lennin et al, was you were put in a work camp or killed.
I will just quote Dr Jordan Peterson and say awesome MyTake.. Sadly in the UK and in Canada Freedom of speech no longer exists
“In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive,” he said. “I mean, look at the conversation we’re having right now. You’re certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth … And that is what you should do … More power to you, as far as I concerned.”
Actually it doesn't. Certain people in government are not allowed to talk about certain things. If they try and spill the beans they might wind up dead and any others they know through collateral damage. So free speech isn't always a good thing.
It is a good thing and it is 100% legal to "spill the beans" that is how many criminal organisations get brought down. Killing someone that is illegal.
Ah, don't bother. I assume you're referring to the deleted ambiguous tweet in response to the French law on catcalling.
I think it was a dumb tweet and that it's so inconsistent with their stance on other free speech issues that it's not reasonable to assume they're in support of a ban on catcalling unless they explicitly say so. They should explain their tweet, though. Not doing so just gives people who hate the ACLU room to speculate about all kinds of crazy shit.
I am an admirer of the ACLU myself, I don't think it is proof of anything nefarious, but I am concerned, because like you said, it seems to go against their core values. I hope nothing anti-free speech comes of it.
@zagor Because it has everything to do with free speech. All the cockroaches are coming out and trying to destroy the Constitution because they want free stuff.
Yes! I received flack from my peers regarding the Sanders situation when she was kicked out of the restaurant. My opinion is that the business owner has the right to make that decision, despite me disagreeing with his decision, he still has the right
@Oram52 here are 2 examples. A: censoring of inappropriate material. Showing your dick or your pussy is not necessary or appropriate to have a discussion about a topic in order to express an opinion, therefore it's not impediment of free speech.
B: shouting "Heil Hitler" ist Not a way of conveying an opinion. It's the incriminating expression of being part of the Nazi movement. You can discuss your absolutely legitimated right wing opinion without shouting Heil Hitler, therefore it is ok to forbid this.
Also B: sometimes chants or straight up repeatedly yelling the same thing over and over in order to overpower and therefore silencing a public speaker for example is impediment of free speech and must be forbidden. As it is not the formulation of an opinion, it's just making noise to prevent others from being heard and therefore doesn't count as free speech.
Not every noise you make with your mouth can be classified as free speech.
Of course critique is legitimate but it must be uttered following the rules of civilized discussion and conversation. If it doesn't, it's not free speech, it's a crime.
@Oram52 offense is really one of 2 things. As a personal attack it must be censored or forbidden. As a means to invalidate or counter an opinion, an idea or an argument it must be allowed.
Censoring offensive opinion is literally impediment of freedom of speech. Even if it is personal attack, only time it can be censored or forbidden is if it violates or can cause any harm.
@Oram52 you just said it's impediment of freedom of speech but then you go on to say that it must be forbidden Uber certain circumstances, which is what I'm saying all the time xD at this point we're just discussing fit discussions sake. I see you get the point.
No, I am saying if any restrictions have been put on freedom of speech, its only been when clear harm came to other party. Other than there can be no restrictions. You can not advocate rape, you are clearly talking about violating someone in horrible ways. Law steps. Its governments job to protect Life, Liberty and Property. If Liberty means violating someones life or liberty then government then has reason to protect them.
I am NOT in any circumstances advocating impediment of free speeech. But merely differentiating that rare circumstances for valid reasons freedom of speech can be restrcited. Other than those arre instances there is no valid reason to hinder free speech. Which in America Supreme Court has always held up.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
46Opinion
At first I think it's very very good that the paragraph 13 didn't passed!
And yes free speech means to hear things you would not hear, but I think at least this is the sense of it. That other people know what each think and if you like it or not is a different thing. It is not possible that everybody on the world thinks in the same way! So why to hide all the thinking differences?
I am passionate about this, believe it or not this was originally much longer!
In my opinion, people should be free to express any idea or position whether it's popular or not. Some people will never change their thinking or ideas anyway, no matter how much society wants to change them. People also brought the "guilt by association" into things.
This being said, I'll express that MacKinnon's extremist view that all heterosexual sex is rape very frightening and shall she be publicly shunned for her views. We shouldn't allow this to one day maybe become mainstream.
That feminist veiw is becoming mainstream. Not only is she not the only one to have it we see this in the rape culture myth and on regret sex becoming rape, and the mere accusation of rape or sexual jarassment are to be beleived.
@genuinelysensitive This does scare me a lot and I can only imagine what society will be like 10 years from now if these social trends continue in their direction.
This is not at all socially "progressive".
It seems that George Orwell's 1984 , is being used by many " governments " worldwide as an instruction manual. There is growing , stealthy , censorship of those that do not subscribe to the Cultural Marxist PC views. Totally agree and good take , liberty is being removed by stealth... there are very powerful hidden agendas at work.
To feel that threatened is to have no security in one's own positions. Only an insecure, power-hungry tyrant is that terrified of their worldview being challenged.
The only time smen want to completely and totally control every word and thought of other men, is when they either believe they are doing God's work, or seeking to become gods themselves.
TLDR, but yes. Only the progressive left wants to limit speech. And the precious snowflakes on college campuses - all that 'hate speech' and they get 'triggered'. pfft. What a f'ing joke.
While I agree there is a disturbing amount on the political left right now, calling for censorship, there are also elements on the right, not in ascendancy, that would censor as well.
You're allowed to say whatever you feel like, but everyone around you has the right to disagree, as well as to force you to face your consequences. Thats life.
"everyone around you has the right to disagree" that is just free speech. As for "consequences" that is often just code for censorship, as with all of these hate speech (read censorship) laws. For instance the "consequence" under Hitler/Musalini/Lennin et al, was you were put in a work camp or killed.
I will just quote Dr Jordan Peterson and say awesome MyTake.. Sadly in the UK and in Canada Freedom of speech no longer exists
“In order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive,” he said. “I mean, look at the conversation we’re having right now. You’re certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth … And that is what you should do … More power to you, as far as I concerned.”
Free speech doesn't give someone the right to spread false information, especially if you are talking about someone else's reputation.
It actually does, that doesn't make it right, or what any decent person would do though.
Actually it doesn't. Certain people in government are not allowed to talk about certain things. If they try and spill the beans they might wind up dead and any others they know through collateral damage. So free speech isn't always a good thing.
It is a good thing and it is 100% legal to "spill the beans" that is how many criminal organisations get brought down. Killing someone that is illegal.
You should tell a certain someone in Washington, DC that...
I have, they don't just listen to one person. Which is why we should all tell these certain people in Washington DC!
Not exactly what I meant, but that's a good point too.
Anybody with an ACLU membership card knows this already.
I am curious what you think of the ACLU tweeting what seems to be support for making catcalling illegal in the US.
You should provide an example for that. What tweets?
Ah, don't bother. I assume you're referring to the deleted ambiguous tweet in response to the French law on catcalling.
I think it was a dumb tweet and that it's so inconsistent with their stance on other free speech issues that it's not reasonable to assume they're in support of a ban on catcalling unless they explicitly say so. They should explain their tweet, though. Not doing so just gives people who hate the ACLU room to speculate about all kinds of crazy shit.
I am an admirer of the ACLU myself, I don't think it is proof of anything nefarious, but I am concerned, because like you said, it seems to go against their core values. I hope nothing anti-free speech comes of it.
lol! The amount of people commenting who don't even understand what free speech means is ridiculous.
I hate how little people want to protect unpopular speech.
There’s line between “speaking your opinion” and ”insulting someone”
Facts don't care about your feelings. - Ben Shapiro.
@Trollfather Someone will kill you. - Lazermazer
You can try. I'm not afraid to fight a snowflake. I can take 10 of em at the same time I bet.
I agree there is a moral line, but as far as censoring etc., no there isn't.
This is Trump's America!
Hating non-white races and hating women is encouraged and celebrated now.
The pathetic, sniveling, worthless racists and sexists now can be a little less cowardly.
Nice way to avoid commenting on the issues brought up by diverting with irrelevance to the subject matter.
@zagor Because it has everything to do with free speech. All the cockroaches are coming out and trying to destroy the Constitution because they want free stuff.
Haha yeah trump a racist haha i repeat everything snl puts into my head haha
Yes! I received flack from my peers regarding the Sanders situation when she was kicked out of the restaurant. My opinion is that the business owner has the right to make that decision, despite me disagreeing with his decision, he still has the right
Free speech is universal
anyone who tries to block it is a rotten communist
Filtering content and forbidding certain expressions isn't an impediment of free speech... When do people finally understand that?
It is impediment of free speech literally. You are deliberetly attempting to hinder someone expressing their views.
@Oram52 here are 2 examples.
A: censoring of inappropriate material. Showing your dick or your pussy is not necessary or appropriate to have a discussion about a topic in order to express an opinion, therefore it's not impediment of free speech.
B: shouting "Heil Hitler" ist Not a way of conveying an opinion. It's the incriminating expression of being part of the Nazi movement. You can discuss your absolutely legitimated right wing opinion without shouting Heil Hitler, therefore it is ok to forbid this.
Also B: sometimes chants or straight up repeatedly yelling the same thing over and over in order to overpower and therefore silencing a public speaker for example is impediment of free speech and must be forbidden. As it is not the formulation of an opinion, it's just making noise to prevent others from being heard and therefore doesn't count as free speech.
Not every noise you make with your mouth can be classified as free speech.
Of course critique is legitimate but it must be uttered following the rules of civilized discussion and conversation. If it doesn't, it's not free speech, it's a crime.
Yes, but he was talking in the context of unpopular opinions or offensive opinions. Opinions authorities may want controlled for example.
@Oram52 offense is really one of 2 things. As a personal attack it must be censored or forbidden. As a means to invalidate or counter an opinion, an idea or an argument it must be allowed.
Censoring offensive opinion is literally impediment of freedom of speech. Even if it is personal attack, only time it can be censored or forbidden is if it violates or can cause any harm.
@Oram52 you just said it's impediment of freedom of speech but then you go on to say that it must be forbidden Uber certain circumstances, which is what I'm saying all the time xD at this point we're just discussing fit discussions sake. I see you get the point.
No, I am saying if any restrictions have been put on freedom of speech, its only been when clear harm came to other party. Other than there can be no restrictions. You can not advocate rape, you are clearly talking about violating someone in horrible ways. Law steps. Its governments job to protect Life, Liberty and Property. If Liberty means violating someones life or liberty then government then has reason to protect them.
I am NOT in any circumstances advocating impediment of free speeech. But merely differentiating that rare circumstances for valid reasons freedom of speech can be restrcited. Other than those arre instances there is no valid reason to hinder free speech. Which in America Supreme Court has always held up.
Yep. The whole point of free speech is to protect unpopular opinions. That's why the LEFT wants to destroy the first Amendment.
Yes, people need to be open minded and get out of their safe spaces.
Liked this Take. Hard-hitting and absolutely correct.
WOW BUDDY! Calm down with your logic and common sense, they're not used to it.