Equal Pay Is Bad Even For Women. Why This Must Not Be Part Of Public Policy.

[MementoMori_]

Yes, I know this will piss some people off. Of course organizations should be forced to pay women the same compensation as men you say? You are not even supposed to discuss this question because the thought police forbid it. But before getting your hackles up, please try to give some kind of cogent rebuttal to the following or allow it to be absorbed into your psyche with an open mind to sway your view.

My view…

In order to conduct an organization in a way that makes its product competitive and produce it at an optimal efficiency, compensation of employees has to be determined based on their EXPECTED net value and contribution to those ends. And, all else being equal, a woman’s EXPECTED value is simply not as high as a man’s in most (although I agree not ALL) jobs.

Simply put, all else being equal, a woman isn't worth as much as a man for any given job in large part because women have about twice the absentee rate as men and are far more likely to quit their jobs and leave the workforce for long periods than men which also means that when the return to the workforce, they have less experience than someone who spent that time on the job. You can't possibly perform your job as well as someone else if you aren't there to perform it. And it doesn't make sense for an employer to invest the same amount in training costs for someone who has a greater chance of leaving before the employer can get an adequate return on that investment, or to promote someone to a critical (and therefore higher paying) position in an organization who has a greater chance of leaving and causing an organizational crisis. You may not like it, but this is simple logic, economics and reality. On this basis alone, all else being equal, a woman's value to an organization is less than a man's.

To the extent that organizations are forced to provide “equal pay” it damages the organization and it damages the economy since any organization that is forced to make sub-optimal operating decisions is uncompetitive. And having uncompetitive organizations leads to failure in the global markets, domestic unemployment and eventually economic hardship and/or collapse. Forcing “equal pay” regardless of gender is a good way to ensure that women go from generally getting somewhat less pay than men -- based on fact based logical reasoning -- to having no jobs at all.

Source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics

[Anonymous]

Everyone, male or female, should be compensated based on their qualifications and performance, and that is exactly what is happening today in the western world.

The so called gender wage gap is a direct reflection of the differences in men's and women's priorities in life, and the choices they make as a result. They choose to study different majors in school, they choose different careers. Women prioritize flexible work schedules and pleasant work environment higher than men do. Women work fewer hours on average than men, they remove themselves from the workforce for extended periods of time. Women leave their jobs to give birth and often don't return, which is extremely costly to employers when you factor in the cost of training and the loss of hard-earned knowledge that walks out the door with those women. The list goes on an on

The wage gap is a direct reflection of those factors. What it is NOT a result of is sexism. Anyone who thinks we don't have equal pay for equal work is misinformed and/or dishonest.

[MementoMori_]

That is an excellent synopsis of the reason women earn less than men on average and the implication is precisely right. They earn less because they CHOOSE to earn less. They choose a lifestyle that is not conducive to higher paying careers. When you make choices in life you are responsible for bearing the consequences of those choices. The only "injustice," if there is one, is trying to force other people to bear the cost of YOUR choices. All people in America have more opportunities and choices than anywhere else in the world or in the history of man. But along with that opportunity comes the responsibility of bearing the consequences -- good or bad -- for the choices you make. You cannot have one without the other.

[Opinion Owner]

@MementoMori_ Exactly right. It seem many women today want to have their cake and eat it too. That's not equality, because men do not have the same right. For example, many feminists argue that childbirth unfairly penalizes women in their careers because they have to leave the workforce for some period of time, which whether we like it or not, puts an enormous burden on employers. But women are not forces to have children. It is a CHOICE, and that choice comes with consequences, responsibilities and trade offs. And women who make that choice need to do so with the knowledge that they must also bear the responsibilities that come with their choice.

[Opinion Owner]

Yes, women bear the burden of childbirth and being a mother, but men do not have that option, nor do they have all the rights that come along with it. For example, men don't have any say in whether a mother aborts or keeps his child, but if she chooses to keep it, the father is legally compelled to financially support the child for the next 18 years, whether he wants to or not. He has no CHOICE, but he certainly has responsibilities.

Women need to own up to the fact that they have rights, choices and responsibilities, and they can't have one without the others. The gender pay gap is a consequence of their CHOICES. They can choose to study the same major, go into the same field, work the same hours and not have children, just like men do, and they will earn the same as men do, in fact recent studies show they tend to earn more in that scenario.

Those are the facts. You can have your cake, or you can eat it, but you cannot do both, and nor can man.

[MementoMori_]

Unfortunately people of average intelligence only have average intelligence. And they are being fed information by one side of the political isle that relies on creating a feeling of "victimhood" in people in order to secure their votes. That side of the isle preys on women and minorities and relies on the fact that most do not have the intelligence to see past the false but pretty facade of their ideology and understand that supporting the victimhood agemda works against their own interests. This is a juncture where politics meets economics, which is of great interest to me since I did my college degrees in both.

Check out the Milton Friedman video someone posted here. As usual Friedman is brilliant. A women asked him about equal pay and part of his response was "I'm on your side! But you're not." He said in a few words what it took me this whole post to explain! GENIUS!

[MementoMori_]

Looked again for the Friedman video here but could not find it! So here it is. Apologies to the OP of that video here. If you see this feel free to chime in because I want to give you the credit for originally posting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsIpQ7YguGE

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks for MHO. That's a great video and Friedman is of course spot on. But I don't think he necessarily addresses the biggest concerns on the wage gap because he doesn't really deny that sexism is a significant factor in the wage gap. It's not, and that is important to call out. The wage gap exists because of the choices of women themselves, and the right to make those choices was ostensibly what feminists were fighting for. Now that they can make them, they want to be immune to the repercussions of those choices, which is wrong and unfair to men, who of course are no immune to the repercussions their choices.

Fairness is what we should be seeking, and we already have it today.

[MementoMori_]

The country reaches out to women and minorit

[MementoMori_]

Sorry, something is wrong with my keyboard... it's the second time it did that in the last few days. What I was saying is that America provides more opportunities to women and minorities to better their lives than any other nation in the history of man. But opportunity doesn't get handed to ANYONE on a silver platter. You have to take responsibility for your own destiny. Unfortunately, there is a massive propaganda campaign that tries to convince certain people that that is unfair and that they can only achieve success through government edict. It's a cultural war that we must win or the country is doomed to socialist hell or even worse.

Keep in mind that the Friedman video was probably from the 70s or maybe early 80s. The culture was different then and a lot of the understanding we take for granted today was not thought out then. So he maybe didn't have that part of his case developed yet. The "feminist" movement was new and still being evaluated by the scholarly community.

[MementoMori_]

It's also important to understand that at that time, Friedman's ideas and views on topics like this were revolutionary. He was a thought leader on topics like this.

[madrddj101]

Men like you are so ignorant it’s funny. You LOVE living in a patriarchy because you’re benefiting from it. Just because you haven’t had sex Iin a few months doesn’t mean you should hate on women.

[Opinion Owner]

@madrddj101 Was there something in particular about what I wrote that you care to dispute or are you content to just lob childish ad hominen bullshit and run like a coward.

I had sex with my wife yesterday, by the way.

[MementoMori_]

Pay no attention to her. It's just another brainwashed liberal zombie with nothing to offer but hate, ignorance and anger.

[Opinion Owner]

Agreed. She's pathetic.

[BillieJean1070]

If Dems are for something, I'm usually against it.

[briecheese07]

like what?

[BillieJean1070]

Thanks for the MHG!

[MementoMori_]

My pleasure. :)

[MlleCake]

And people wonder why we still need feminism.

[Stripes99]

We don’t

[Vegeta01]

@Stripes99 Why you gotta annihilate her like that?

[ROCKS128]

I dont.
Dont take 'people' as word for your self purpose...

[Lycralady]

What exactly is feminism now.

[Alfa_Male]

I am not feminist, I am anti feminist. I don't agree the man who ask this idiotic question. You have just excuses to hate men. You are generalizing men , because you are sexist and man hater. That s the reason. We don't need feminism. We need meninism, men s righst and equality.
By the way women don't earn less money than men, its actually they earn more money than men. We should change it and give more money to men to achieve equality.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male I don't hate men at all. That's just something you have been told about feminism that isn't really true.

[Alfa_Male]

@MlleCake Even if you love all men, even you support them, that doesn't make ally with men. I want to give you an example. For example imagine a person is supporting ISIS terorists, but he says no ISIS is not terorrists , they are just muslims. When you say to such a person that he is terrorist supporter, if he say "no I am not, I am against terrorism. " What would you think? Of course he is terrorist supporter.
And if you are a feminist, no matter if you love men or not, you are still a man hating , sexist woman. Because you support an ideology which majority of them are man haters. And they are the reason why men hating laws came in our countries.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male That simply is not true, and you might know that if you actually got involved with feminists instead of just drinking the kool-aid from your right wing pundits.

[Alfa_Male]

www. youtube. com / watch? v= HK7n_XA40V8 delete space and watch the video Watch this video, you supporting with an ideology where the fascist feminists are attacking MRA. You are supporting the same ideology with them. İf you are not a man hater, you should be against this fascist ideology. You can not be a person who is against war at the same time suppporting war. İts discrepancy. İf you are a feminist, its obvios, Y o u a r e a m a n h a t e r AND that s it.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male I don't support manhating. I'm not a man hater. Come take a look at my life and you'll see why your conclusions are bullshit.

[Alfa_Male]

You either didn't read my comment or you didn't understand. Otherwise you would not make this nonsense comment again. You are supportin a man hating ideology. Regardless of what you think and how you live , you support a man hating ideology. İt doesn't make you a less man hating, or a fascist than a feminist. Because you are feminist yourself. You are definitely a bad person. Definitely, I am sure. Do not say I am a good woman. You are dangerous. Because you do lots of manipulation and the things you said is far from the truth. Feminism is only belong to garbage, feminism has no any other place. Feminists supports removing presumption of innocence when it comes to crime against women by men. This is fascism, sexism and disgusting. And you support this ideology. So you are exteremely bad person. I would not be even a friend with you.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male You're just parroting talking points from people who have a vested interest in keeping you from recognizing the real issues at play. You're full of drivel.

[Alfa_Male]

You are a man hater and a extremely bad person. I don't care you. Don't comment and not make this thread longer. I don't want to talk with you anymore. You are just doing manipulation. I don't care your opinions, because you don't listen.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male You're right. I tune out the drivel of men like you who don't know fuck-all about anything you spout shit about.

[Alfa_Male]

Shut up your mouth and stop commenting a little bit. I hate feminists and feminism. Feminism is worser than everything.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male Why should I shut up? I'm not the sexist promoting inequality.

[Vegeta01]

Calm your tits grandma

[MementoMori_]

It's not male hating, it's penis envy. :D

[MlleCake]

Why would I have penis envy? With what I have, I can get any penis I want.

[Alfa_Male]

You can not get any penis you want. Most men will not even want to talk with you. You are thinking you are an important person. But you are so worthless. You are just a man hater.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male Wow, look at you. So challenged by my words that you feel you must insult me. Look, there are things I am not confident about in this world, but finding and wooing acceptable sex partners is not one of them. You can keep repeating that I am a man-hater, but that doesn't make it so.

I don't care what "most" men think about me, in terms of finding me attractive or dating me. It's only certain men I have my eye on, and I haven't had a lick of trouble attracting them ever in my life.

If you want to insult me, you'll have to find something I am actually sensitive about.

[Alfa_Male]

I don't want to insult you. I just don't believe what you say. I don't believe anything feminists says. I explain the reason why you are a man hater. I don't need to add anything. Bye

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male Except, I don't hate men. I just don't. Nothing you can say will ever make that true. It's just nonsense you tell yourself to feel better about discriminating against women.

And yes, you are trying to insult me. Deny it if you wish, but it is the truth.

[Alfa_Male]

"It's just nonsense you tell yourself to feel better about discriminating against women." You proved you are a man hater. I will never respect a feminist, and this is the reason. You are all liar and man hater. I love women, I respect women. But I hate feminism and feminists. Because feminism is a fascist, sexist and misandrist ideology. İts so dangerous. And you are part of that ideology. Feminists see men as slaves. İf you love men you sould be meninist. Otherwise you are nothing more than a misandrist. You just speak, speak, speak. And the result not change, manipulation and lies will never change anything. Cuz most of the people know feminists are men haters.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male I haven't lied, and I don't hate men. Most feminists don't hate men. Some are very critical of men, that's true, but criticism and hatred are not the same thing.

You talk about being a "meninist" - I'm actually involved in several areas that directly work to improve the lives of men. I have been for many years.

it just doesn't fit with the narrative you have created in your head, so you''l continue to call me a liar, rather than get to know who I really amd and who feminists really are.

You just parrot talking points from radio pundits and web celebrities. Not an original thought has come forth from your fingers on the keyboard so far.

[Alfa_Male]

"Most feminists don't hate men" ahahahahahahah :D :D :D :D I laughed your comment sooooo much. :D :D :D Thank you for your funny joke. :D :D :D ahahahahah The best joke today I have ever heard. I didn't read rest of the your comment. You are a man hater. İts soooo obvious.

[MementoMori_]

Feminists have daddy issues. They didn't get enough attention from Daddy, so they go through life pissed off at the world.

[Alfa_Male]

@MementoMori_ You are right my friend. Thank you for supporting men's rights.

[MlleCake]

@Alfa_Male tink tink tink

[CoffeeWC]

You make a great point. Too bad society doesn't function on logic alone.

[Lish89]

Women are usually absent from the workplace for usually one reason: MATERNITY! So your data is kind of bias because unfortunately we can't help that were the gender who has to carry and nuture the child. Second, when faced with the situation that either mom or dad pick up the sick kid, it's usually the mom.. again another reason women are absent. Women also have more health appointments and also usually are the ones who take their children to these appointments etc. I worked in different daycares in different cities for over a decade and rarely saw dads pick up kids early for those matters.

It doesn't matter what gender, it should be paid equally and based on the work ethic and professionalism of the employee. I know females who were paid more than me and were worst employees then myself. One girl called in all the time while I always stayed later and covered any shift. But seniority takes precedence in the workplace not work ethic. So it shouldn't be about gender, it should be equal pay regardless and up to the employer to decide wether and employee deserves to stay at that pay based on their employment record.

[Samsissy]

Add me so we can chat!!! I agree 100% with you

[NaultD]

I think a lot of people on all fronts misunderstand the gender wage gap. America is described as the land of freedom and opportunity. There is 325 million people with slightly more females within standard divination. With 325 million data points who supposedly can do whatever they want, there is a noticable deviation. We want to know why. I don't think it's people twirling there evil mustaches just to make a buck where they can get away with. But a society level question on why it is.

You mentioned child care and if a family chooses for one parent to be a primary care taker while the other parent works it's there choice. Now the wage gap questions is "is that choice going to the family?" people scoff the stay at home dad or at least a hmmmm at the notion. With millions of data points of a free nation it should even out, its not.

Also look at nursing for an example. Nationwide worker shortage, why is that. Moderate education compared to doctors. Decent pay. Sure it demands a level of warmth and caring. It's deemed women's work. Males are afraid of great potential, and being wonderful contributioners of any community based on society's pressure. I don't think that should be acceptable.

The wage gap question is a bench mark on our society. If we as a society don't like it, we should break it down and see what's going on. The wage gap hurts all of us then just female pocket books. It's a force that controls all of us in a land of pursuit of your own happyness.

I feel like I should disclose my annoyed stance today on the matter that is tandem to all those national men day posts recently. They all cry about men being abused with higher risk work. Go figure it goes with higher pay hence the wage gap hence my point. I could be connecting unrelated dots but think anyone shouldn't beable to eat there cake and have it too.

[MlleCake]

HOLY FUCK

First man I seen in years gets it. Hallelujah. The tides are turning.

[MementoMori_]

There are no government regulations limiting pay for women. In fact the "wage gap" persists in spite of government's attempt to (unfairly for men) skew the playing field in their favor. Women are paid what they are worth to an employer and on average they are not worth as much because of higher absenteeism, greater risk of leaving after the employer has invested in their training, less dedication to their work, less drive and competitive nature and other factors.

[MlleCake]

No one said the government was imposing the cap dingdong.

Prejudice that still remains is imposing the cap.

[NaultD]

That shakey heavy hand regulation trying to tip the scale even is a passive non confrontational way to get people not to bully smaller groups. The real solution is people not to be jerks. Seeing how the male public took the Razer blade commercial we need that shakey hand till people take responsibility for grade school level bullying.

You can't artificially increase intrest in any field that's why it's important for marginal groups that are intrested with petty bullying. Especially

[NaultD]

For STEM fields. Every different prospective could be the next big advancement to change the world. If someone spends half there time proving there abilities as an equal is not advancing in that career.

[NaultD]

*You can't artificially increase intrest in any field that's why it's important protect marginal groups that are intrested from petty bullying.

[MementoMori_]

You don't go into business to figure out ways to make less profit or to participate in some social justice crusade, you go into business to make profits. An employer will pay whatever an employee is worth regardless of whether it's a man or a woman. What an employer cares about is how much profit they can make by hiring a given employee. And if you have two equally qualified candidates, one male and one female, you have a greater expected return on your investment with the male for the reasons I already explained. Therefore your expected profit is higher hiring the male than hiring the female. It's that simple. In a case where the female represented the higher profit you would hire the female.

[NaultD]

The tides are already turning on "maximum profit only" educated people looking for work. Younger educated people are working harder then ever for more moral work. So maybe work some morality into your maximum profit scheme Boyo.

[MementoMori_]

Whatever... when they grow up past puberty they will realize that business and charity are two different things. Let's see them invest their on money in a business without any profits when they need to feed their families. Liberals need to grow up and face reality.

[MementoMori_]

You should be kissing the ground and thanking God for the profit motive. It's responsible for everything you have. From the food in the supermarket, to the drugs that save your life, to the cars you ride in, to the house you live in, to the electricity you use, the gas that heats your house, and on and on and on. Every one of those things is only possible because someone decided to go into business to make a profit. The entire world would be living in the stone age if it wasn't for the profit motive. You want to talk about morals? The capitalist profit motive has liberated more people from poverty, starvation, disease and tyranny than any other motivating force know to man. THAT'S what is moral. To badmouth the profit motive is the epitome of IMMORAL.

[NaultD]

Like i said in protecting STEM careers from bullying, that persons prospective could be the next big thing leading the way of the future. Are you willing to lose out being that asshat not to listen to that person? This question of wage gap goes well beyond possible profit estimates. If the end result is the only thing that matters then prepared prejudices shouldn't factor into anything. Just play it by ear as a responsible person with no prejudices. As it should be.

[NaultD]

@MlleCake any remarks on my line of thinking thus far on the subject from you? I do grow endlessly from new perspectives. I would be delighted to hear from you on any feedback positive or negative.

[NaultD]

Just imagine negotiating a price with fire fighters as your home buried down with a family pet inside, god forbid a human inside. Capitalism by nature is immoral that's the whole point of regulating it to make growth. Where we draw the line determines where we are as a society.

Water is the foundation of all life so put an infinite price tag on it as capitalist puts value for it. Make bottle air as the only air to breathe as we make more toxins in the air for other products of mass destruction.

[MlleCake]

Nothing to add. Seriously I just need to page you to argue down the fuckheads who still think there aren't enough facts to support why the wage gap is still all sexist in some way. Because women are not actually literally less valuable than men on this Earth as workers.

[MlleCake]

You're XPer 8 and I have no recollection of ever seeing your screen name. Where did you come from? You're the best thing I have seen in months.

[NaultD]

@MlleCake I've been trolling politics starting with Donald saying "on both sides on both sides" on charletsville. vary small community till 4 or 5 months ago i guess.

[NaultD]

@MlleCake i like to think my abstract thinking is a strong tool that most don't have. I still struggle expressing them so that's why i troll around here to practice. Also why i ask for your feedback.

[MlleCake]

I'm just humbled by you right now, but I needed you to say this, today.

[NaultD]

@MlleCake thank you. I find myself at times bridging left leaning, where i start, politics into the right, who want the same end goal as i do. I grow endlessly from feedback from anyone.

[Intraluminal]

Your opinion is flawed in several ways, which will take longer to explain than I have time to do right now, but briefly fall under three headings.

1) In the vast majority of jobs today the majority of training costs are either a) Bourne by the employee, i. e. Doctors, nurses, engineers, must have degrees, or b) are related to the amount of time spent working, so, less work, less training costs.

2) A well designed employee management system should be able to manage employee absenteeism. If it can't, that's the fault of management, not the employee.

More than that, however is that a central tenet of your argument, that women are absent more than men, is in fact incorrect and unsupported by the data.

3) The biggest problem with your argument, and the one that shows that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, is your "competition" argument.

It is so poorly thought out that I weep for any company that you ever attempt to run.

EVEN IF your other arguments were true (higher training costs, greater female absenteeism) Your "competition" argument BY ITSELF is enough to demonstrate the folly of your entire argument.

Here's an intellectual exercise for you and the rest of GaG As I said, I don't have time now to go the many errors in your argument: WHY IS THE COMPETITION ARGUMENT FALSE? HINT: In England jivkeys of all different weights race horses - HOW?

[MementoMori_]

"More than that, however is that a central tenet of your argument, that women are absent more than men, is in fact incorrect and unsupported by the data."

Not supported by the data? Not supported by what data? I posted a graph created by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics that shows women are absent from work nearly twice as often as men. I you have a more reliable source of data than that please post it. Otherwise it is your view that is not supported by the data.

[madrddj101]

Women are absent of work BECAUSE men for hundreds of years have banned women from the work place and put as a social norm that women don’t go to work. Seriously!! Pick up a freaking history book because you sound dumb as hell. Women are not in work as much because it hasn’t even been 100 years since women were ALLOWED back in work, which is men’s fault!! Idiots! You think a few graphs give you a justifiable argument? I can tell you don’t have a degree because you can’t form an entire argument based on a few graphs, look into history buddy. We know you hate women

[MementoMori_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL1Xt3T9ZnY

[madrddj101]

no response? Exactly what I thought. Back to your pasement Joseph

[Anonymous]

What I believe this largely fails to take into account is WHY those women take leaves of absences and it doesn't take a genius to figure this out. Typically these are due to either pregnancy or children. Now as far as society has come along, it still generally regards the rearing of children to be more of a woman's job than her husband even if they both equally care for the children in reality. That woman in that relationship is more likely to be at home when the kids are sick or when she is pregnant or god forbid there are any complications. This in turn allows those same men in couplings where they have children to continue to work uninterrupted climbing corporate ladders and such. Now if these same women decided, screw the children, they prefer to work non-stop and they decide their husbands should then take care of the kids more often, I'd wager those numbers would change.

So your solution then is to forever punish women for having children and reward men for doing so. The only way for a woman to then get equal pay is to stop having children. This means, there would be no more men or women for that matter, and everyone would die ensuring that everyone can EQUALLY die in the interest of fairness and equality.

You should probably look into companies that actually invest in women and provide things like childcare onsite and account for pregancy/time off that is basically essential for the continuation of life as we know it rather than just conveniently ignoring this part of "reality."

Even beyond that, what of the women who do actually choose not to have children? You forever punish them in this scheme by the assumption that just because they can, they should not be paid equally.

[Opinion Owner]

*just because they can get pregnant, they should not be paid equally

[MementoMori_]

I'm glad you made this point and I agree with you that the REASON women are absent from the workplace and workforce more than men is largely because they bear the primary responsibility for the actual physical raising of the children. But where I differ with you is that lower pay at the workplace they are absent from more often is a "punishment." It is not a punishment, but the natural result of economic efficiency. The discussion about the worth of a woman's contribution to society for performing the critical duty of raising children to is an important one and quite interesting. But it isn't the woman that is "punished" if an organization is forced to bear the cost of that activity but the organization that is punished. The real question is whether or not it is optimal to punish the organization. It's not their fault and it's not economically optimal to remedy what you perceive as an unjust situation by creating another unjust situation. Of course a woman can choose not to have kids.

[Opinion Owner]

...and there in lies the rub. Rather than look for a solution like on site childcare or in the case of several women I know where their companies have an option in such cases for them to work from home, the be all end all is to forever ensure in your case that women should receive lower pay simply because they can get pregnant or because they are or have children and one person of that couple needs to take care of the sick kids which is usually her. This whole notion of "but women have a choice not to have children" so therefore pay them less---is one of the most sexist things in this equation because the entirety of women AND men are not going to stop having children. WE WOULDN'T HAVE A WORKFORCE AT ALL if women stopped having children. Men in these couplings again are "allowed" to work because someone takes the brunt of raising the kids---if the wife/gf dies, guess who does that chore, but guess what also happens, someone still needs to make money.

[Opinion Owner]

The solution is to find solutions like childcare onsite that benefit both parents or a work from home option. It's the same exact reason a company has a health plan---if it's employees have insurance they are more likely to use it when they get sick to take care of themselves to get back to work. And paying women less "just because" of a possibility of pregnancy is incomprehensible. That's like saying you may get in a car accident so don't give anyone a car.

[ScoutLeader107]

Not sure I agree with the onsite child care argument. Who's paying for the onsite child care? The company or the parent? If it's the parent, than I could fully understand that, but the company shouldn't have to pay for child care when it was the parents of the child that chose to have the child in the first place. And if the argument is for at work child care than couldn't you make the same argument for at home child care aka a babysitter or daycare services?

[yucychan]

I disagree. You are still looking at things from a very old school point of view. I do agree that in general, women's physical presence in the workplace may be lesser than men due to maternity leaves, checkup, looking after children etc. However, with the onset of technology, we are no longer confined to the limits of a physical workplace. Be creative, people are now working from homes and mobile devices, many people are bringing work home or to places of their convenience. There are already online training sessions in most org that could be done at the convenience of the trainee.
Even when I'm not present at my workplace due to some illness, I'm still able to continue with my work from home, so your basis that women are less work-productive and inefficient is really unfair. I feel the real reason for your take is not because you desire to see organizations do well, but because you fear women taking on more higher-level positions and doing better than men in some aspects. You still want to see women as being the inferior gender, and they should be subservient to men.

[dirk345]

Here ALL women are USELESS !!!

Thats what your text looks like to me from point of work and economy. I Disagree!!!

I agree feminism deals more damage to women then helping them. And I disagree with feminism because of it.
But your arguments are far away from what agree with. They sound more like a person who is angry on women.

And Did I understand you right you think women shoud not work in general?

The are women out there who dont like to work and a lot of them are great.

Just and example. For decades a nurse was usually female, because she is in general more empathic and saint. Ofc the are men who to better or women who do worse. But in general it a womens thing. And that is good! I prefer a caring heartful nurse over a rough careless person. Women usually not always dont better than men.

And in modern world are more opportunitys that before.
If a company decides to use womens skills to do harmfull things you would say the is a devil. But if a guy builds tanks and says If you dont do what I say he is less evil? ?

We have useful options for women and we should use it.
Everyoe can decide himself if where to go and do his / her best.

If someone is just playing videogames 6h a day and proclaims everything is bad, it this / her own fault. And yes many women to it do.
I dont say it is bad but just dont proclaim your miseraby

[dirk345]

And to clearfy this. Forcing anything by law just hurts the women who dislike doing something. eg Working

But when people try to enforce them not to work at all. I can at least understand why we have this law.

If you really wanna change something. Stop hating anyone. (Same for feminism girls) and establish a world where everyone can do its best instead of enforcing and fighting all the time. It just drains energy for nothing

[MementoMori_]

It appears to me that you completely misunderstand my post. I didn't say, and don't think anything even close to that women shouldn't work. I don't have any idea how you could interpret it that way. And you didn't say anything of substance to rebut what I actually did say. You just repeated "I disagree" in several different ways and ascribed things to my comments that were neither said nor implied and motives to my reasoning that are both imaginary and irrelevant. Sounds to me like you are the angry one in this conversation.

[WhitePanther88]

Pay should be based on things like ability, productivity, hours worked, experience and education. Gender shouldn't be a factor. There should be no special treatment due to what reproductive organs you have.

[MementoMori_]

How true. The real racism and sexism comes from those who seek special treatment for women and minorities. Treating people differently because of the color of their skin or what they have between their legs is the very definition of racism and sexism. Value for any job should be determined by free market forces only. An employer should be free to hire or not hire anyone they choose for any reason they wish. And the compensation should be determined only on the basis of what the employer and employee agree to.

[NicolaD]

Women deserve equal pay for the same job a man does, end of! It still annoys me that in this day and age women are, through financial remuneration, termed as "second class" decades after the Equal Pay Act was put into law decades back. I've heard all the tripe and excuses over the years but it's rubbish, women are equal to men and should be treated as such.

[samoht89]

look at who downvoted you, all three are men. go figure

[NicolaD]

Mmm and three women and one man voted positively @samoht89

[samoht89]

yeppp

[MementoMori_]

There are more women than men in the United States. So what's their problem? If there is something wrong, why isn't it their own fault?

[samoht89]

because of power hungry men

[laurieluvsit]

All pay should begin as equal and then be adjusted over time according to the quality and productivity of the employee regardless of gender.

It could end up that all the girls end up making more :)

[Anonymous]

I’ve never missed a day of work. I hope you’re never part of the hiring process for jobs I apply for. Or perhaps I’d be the one hiring you. (didn’t check your age. Maybe you’ve never worked a day in your life. haha)
Stinks that you’d refuse to hire half the population because of stats from 20 years ago.

Also considering women are raped more often, left with caring for children, are more often victims of domestic violence, and have to give birth, missing only one day more on average is pretty good.

[Logorithim]

It seems to me that absenteeism isn't really an issue here. Hourly workers are paid for the hours they work, right? In this digital era with home offices, can't they do home office sometimes?

I may be more sympathetic on this than some men because I have three kids and have had to miss work in order to stay home with a sick kid or take them to the doctor.

[Friendship_7]

We are taught that denying a job because of race or gender is wrong - So with that mindset it is wrong to give women equal pay just because they are women. And unfair to men that have earned higher pay- Even if the experience level is the same. Men are worth more to a company and will work longer than women in most cases. I love women and have many women friends, but from a business standpoint, Committing a company's resources on employes, I agree that it is not good to give women equal pay. It is not about what is correct - It is about what they are worth. This is business, and in business a women is not as valuable as a man to that business. ( Their are some exceptions here. ) You have done a good job explaining this from a business standpoint. The excuse " It's only fair " means nothing in the business world.

[Anonymous]

I partly agree. Not on the sense that womens value in worth is less. But in the sense time off etc should be evaluated. But given the references and the background checks I think they should be the bases on pay rate, not the off chance the woman's off sick. That's basically saying as some women have higher off rate, for say pregnancy, what about the women who can't get pregnant so that's not an issue?
Up until last year, I'd never had a day off sick in the 7 years since I was legally able.
I think to solve that they should just do better checks in people, how often have they been sick in X amount of years? How much experience do they have?
Luckily in the care sector the pay gap isn't really noticeable.

[Clo917]

One, we already have equal pay in the western world, it's literally illegal to pay a woman less than a man. Two, if I'm doing the same job as a man just as well, then I should be paid the same as him... which I already do cause of point #1.

[TripleAce]

Ya so what is everyone here talking about. It is the same lol

[MementoMori_]

As with many subjects there is a difference between a discussion about what "should be" and "what is." "What is" is not always the best choice. That's why what "should be" should always be an open topic. This topic is about what "should be," not necessarily what is.

[Kemil_Zhoki]

Businesses exist to make money for the owners. That means paying as little as possible for the desired results. Logically, if they could get the same results by hiring women for less, the men would be out of jobs.

[MementoMori_]

Correct. There is no effective economic argument for equal pay, it's all about imposing subjective "social justice" on private sector enterprise by force of government. To my mind it is an attempt to replace one form of perceived injustice with another. I don't blame women for trying to use whatever means they have at their disposal to gain economic advantage. That's rational behavior. But the question is not about who gets their way, but whether or not the result is the best thing for a society overall.

[passinby]

Even if they get paid more than men for less hours they will still be out there with their signs. Nope, not until men are exterminated will the signs go away.

[Pink2000]

If I’m doing the same job as my male counter part and doing a a good job or even a better job as him then I should get paid the same...

[Alpha09]

Well put.

[TripleAce]

@Alpha09 Isn’t that how it is though? Do women doctors or laywers get paid less than men? Or do women nurses get 2$ an hour less than men? I’m pretty sure it’s the same

[MementoMori_]

As with many subjects there is a difference between a discussion about what "should be" and "what is." "What is" is not always the best choice. That's why what "should be" should always be an open topic. This topic is about what "should be," not necessarily what is.

[ROCKS128]

Have you seen any dad benefits while his wife is pregnant?😒
Doing same job is different than doing same amount of job.

[Pink2000]

@ROCKS128 they have paternal leave.

[ashleyb93]

You get payed for the work you do, the hours you put in, and your level of training. If a man and a woman have the same credentials at the same job they need to be payed the same amaout per hour. Period. It's not that hard.