Yep. But you're not going to convince the anti's with facts and logic - it's all about the FEELZ. They actually think if you make it tougher for our citizens then the bad guys won't be able to get guns. The logic there is stupefying.
I'm not American but I agree with the second amendment. But most Americans don't undertand it, it's not just for defense but to fight the government if they start with tyranny
That is the dumbest thing I've heard today. You have to register that with the government, so they know who has them. They are expensive. They are illegal in some states.
You assume they have them. I've never seen, in a decade of living there, anyone owning anything worse than fireworks or tannerite.
You are definitely correct on everything and also there is the fact that the goverment was infiltrated more and more since 1952 and the same people that whacked JFK have wanted a completely socialist world with no middle class for years. Gun control is a huge part of that. Once people give up their guns it is all over. It will be the elite and the poor we will be economic slaves and I truly believe half of these shootings are staged so people end up losing gun rights.
How about instead taking easy route and banning guns, americans would teach proper gun care? Switch is one of most armed countries and yed there is almost no gun crime. Shurly they are doing something right.
Banning something is easy, working with people to prewent harm isn't. But you have that monkey president so why not ban them?
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My bro is pro-gun.
I'm in a profession in which I sometimes visit peoples houses. My brother wanted me to get a gun ti take with me. My job isn't practical to have a gun physically on me, itd have to be in my bag. I told my brother, "so if this person didn't already have a gun, im giving them the opportunity to obtain one?"
Or you could be giving yourself an opportunity not to get murdered. You know, by having a way to defend yourself. But eh, think of it however you like.
I'm not concerned about most people. I'm concerned about those that are murderers. And wait a minute, if they aren't murderers then why are you so concerned about them obtaining your gun then? If they aren't murderers or bad, then how are they going to obtain your gun? You just defeated your own original argument, because if the people you visit are good to begin with then why are you afraid of them taking your gun? Lol.
@Kiran04 I'm not concerned, i was adressing my brothers concern. He was the one who suggested a gun for "protection". I'm not getting one because i dont need one.
On top of that I'm a stranger going into their house just as much as I'm going into a strangers home, no one wants a stranger coming into their house with a gun.
No one wants to go into a stranger's house and be murdered either. We don't get to choose how everything in life plays out. We only get to choose how we're prepared for how things might play out. Fortune always favors the prepared.
Ok that's right in a sense, because without prevalence of guns just like here in the U. K. ; we have high numbers of knife crimes and knife homicides. So taking away the firearm, people will just find another means to kill via stone slabs, rocks or swords or even a pencil. But bear in mind the chances of surviving gunshot wound is slim, one round or shell can kill. Whereas a knife wound, there is still chance the victim could survive and paramedics can save them.
You realise that terrorists literally suggest that people who want to join should join go to America to get their firearms.
A man literally tells his followers "you can go to certain states, and acquire a gun without a waiting period, or a background check, so what are you waiting for?
Wrong, no evidence and also you cannot get a gun without a waiting period or a background check ANYWHERE, otherwise it's illegal. And you can go to jail...
I have done my research bud, and it concludes that it's illegal to obtain a gun without a waiting period or background check. Once again give me the evidence that some terrorists are telling people to go to the U. S to get a gun legally without the limitations. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence, where is it?
I could, but I don't care enough to spoon feed you all that information. There are tons and tons of information on this topic online from well documented sources for those who want to listen.
From profiling of gun owners as erratic, impulsive people with exceedingly paranoid ideations that do not reflect the reality of their environment, being contributing factor of the problem.
Through the precise documentation of how the lack of gun control effectively causes most of the gun crime in South American countries such as El Salvador which despite having no local firearm manufacture, is flooded with firearms because of how easy they are to smuggle from the US because of its non-existent gun regulations.
Followed by definite proofs of the effectiveness of gun regulations as demonstrated by the actions taken in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo in where they managed to lower gun homicide by almost 70% following drastic crackdowns on arms.
As well as the piles and piles of papers of empirical data that outline clear correlations between gun ownership, gun control and gun-related deaths in such socioeconomic environments such as Switzerland, Hong Kong, Japan in contrast to places like Serbia, Russia and Montenegro.
And that's not even just talking about crime. Historic data shows that availability of means of suicide is one of the biggest driving causes of suicide in general. Suicide as an impulsive act represents 90% of cases, and regulation of firearm availability is important factor in curbing suicide rates because it is among the most convenient ways to kill yourself.
@Rissyanne Chicago has confiscated more illicit firearms per capita than any other major US city. The reason why it remains riddled with gun crime is because firearms keep being easily imported from the rest of Illinois and the neighboring Indiana which are places with some of the weakest gun control laws in the country.
@Rissyanne Gun control works. Historically, prohibition has always worked, in spite of what junkies and certain politicians regurgitate. For guns, drugs, everything. If something doesn't work, you have to look deeper to understand why it doesn't.
All you will be doing is getting the guns out of law abiding citizens. Criminals will always get guns. And with you liberals wanting open borders... how hard will it be for the criminals to get guns? But you will have it exactly the way you want. Citizens no guns... criminals will have the guns.
Today there are two questions: first, how to deduct themselves from robbers and an armed attack. You need a weapon or a personal pistol. And the second question is how to ensure protection against bad people who also buy pistols, but not for self-defense...
Only retards want gun control. Retards who are clueless about crime and violence. If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. So you achieve nothing except taking the honest people's chance of defense and survival.
Who they vote for is irrelevant. I don't know why they even do. Conservatives believe in god given rights and free market and meritocracy which is completely opposite to identity politics which both the KKK and modern democrats have in common.
@bamesjond0069 No they don't. Conservatives seek to reinforce cultural hierarchies. They most certainly believe in identity politics. Have you never heard a conservative say that we're a "christian nation" or talk about "white genocide" or anything like that? Look at the identitarian movement in Europe. Look at the xenophobes in the states. That's textbook conservatism. And if you ask the KKK, they'll tell you, they're conservative. And if you'd like to learn more, I suggest you look into southern strategy -- because it's the Republicans who are fighting to save confederate statues and memorials in public places, who defend Robert E. Lee and the confederacy, etc.
Look back at the tradition of conservatism from Edmund Burke, to Donald Trump. It's defined by its resistance to change in society.
Ahh so anyone who says they are a democrat speaks for democrats? So LBJ said the n word a bazillion times. Does that mean all democrats believe thats the thing to do because you all mainly still like and are supportive of the lbj presidency? If you won't use common sense judging conservatives why would conservatives not thing you are a racist for being favoravle to lbj?
Lyndon Johnson was a racist, and that was wrong. I would encourage my fellow democrats to say the same: don't apologize for his racism, acknowledge that it was wrong.
But here's the thing, democrats at large are not racist. You can find a handful of white supremacists in the party, they will be few and far between, but you may just find some. If you want to find the Americans fighting hardest for the marginalized, you'll find them in the Democratic [and Green] Party.
Republicans are a different story. The GOP post-1970 is a party that has fanned the flames of racial tension, and been vehicles for xenophobia, nativism, etc. You have congressmen like Steve King, governors like Paul LePage, Presidents like Donald Trump, to name a few, who are racist. If you cast a vote for these individuals, you're saying racism isn't a dealbreaker. You are somewhere between tolerating racism and being racist.
I'm not saying that all Republicans are white nationalists, because not every single one is. Buuuuuuuuut, if you're a white nationalist and looking for a political party, I think I know which of the main two is probably most appealing to you (I'm sure many of the real ones are attracted to the Constitution Party and the A3P).
I rarely hear republicans even talk about race. I think I've yet to hear a single speach by a democrat that does not mention race. In my personal life i deal with many races and tbh i never even think about it nor is it brought up almost like its not even important. So its seems like democrats are obsessed with race and think its so important but my real life tells me its not. So im more inclined to think democrats to be racist.
I agree with your views on gun control by the way, and that's probably one of my most liberal views.
But whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, the Democrats created most racist organized groups. And I don't care about this whole "the platforms shifted" nonsense-because it doesn't stop the fact Andrew Jackson (the founder of the Democratic Party), and other Democrats were the backbones of systematic racism in this country.
These days, Democrats are your subtle racists, where as Republicans are your blatant racists. I don't belong to a political party (and you agreed with me Democrats aren't that much different than Republicans on another post).
@EnglishArtsteacher Look, I'd love to have a fully, 100% squeaky clean of racism party, but the Green Party and SPUSA aren't in great shape.
The Democrats are de-facto antiracist. They are 99.9% antiracist, and that's probably the best we can do.
The reality is that all the racists of that old time are gone. They left the party. Have you not ever heard of Southern Strategy before?
I heard there were rumors of Joe Biden complaining that there were still old timey southern democrats that hung around in some areas. I can't speak to whether or not that rumor is true, but what you should consider is that these racists would be our most conservative members. These would be paleocons. These aren't racist liberals, they are racist conservatives who are still registered with the party.
No you're all racist now. For example voter id laws, i keep hearing from democrats requiring id to vote is racist because it will make it hard for black people to vote? Why? Dont black people have ids? Or do you think they are too dumb to have an id? Id love for you to bridge the gap here. How does a voter id law keep black people from voting?
If it's not loaded and ready to rock and roll, what's even the point? Crime happens in mere seconds. You have to be ready at an instance's notice. Having them locked up and unloaded would make a gun 100% useless as a defensive tool.
As a kid I knew where some of the guns were at but never the ammo. However my dad always told me if I wanted to see them or hold them to ask permission from him. You know what, I listened because I was taught to listen to my parents. Kids are very touchy feely and curious in general but it comes down to how well the adult has taught them to not touch certain things without permission.
Because making guns legal in the first place is the cause of of gun violence it is too late to disarm them now. This is why i'm neither a pro gun and an anti gun.
@Nadim171 Why fight someone without guns with guns? It's no bodies fault your houses aren't walled. It's no bodies fault no one would take actions for anyone because of that self defense culture. So making guns legal at first is the cause of gun violence and like what I said, disarming them makes it worse because if you disarm, only those legal gun owners's guns will be taken away.
Basically like bullying at school. Everyone's taught to do self defense that's why teachers and parents don't do anything until get gets to the point the victims can't handle it and start school shooting or commit suicide.
So America isn't safe because of guns? I can agree about that if you're talking about school shooters. But being a school student myself, I don't need a gun I can simply use a knife. And the second amendment isn't about defense but about war. The founding fathers wrote it so that the civilians can fight a corrupt government or fight invaders. If the Jews owned guns in Germany they could have survived and escaped the holocaust.
@Nadim171 While their crimes are less compared, quality wise, they're more violent. It's good you're not a school shooter but just because you're not one of those school shooters doesn't really change the average or amount.
I don't think guns should be allowed in schools just the same way I'm not allowed to take a knife with me at school. And the way liberals act, like if making guns legal makes shooting people legal makes no sense. If you carry a gun that's legal. If you shoot someone you'll go to jail so shooting is illegal
@Nadim171 That's why there are officials. For some reason the officials can't take actions right away because no neighborhood can threaten those crimes or police can make it in time because chances are they assume you own guns for defense.
@Nadim171 But it has started so there's there's no point disarming them now. I would still say it's the pro gun's fault in the first place and again, I'm not an anti gun because that can worsen things up.
@Nadim171 Basically like nukes. USA is making more nukes because Russia is making more nukes because China is making more nukes because North Korea is making more nukes and so on. All for self defense. No bodies gonna disarm their nukes first and lets all wait till one fires it up after decades of no nukes being detonated but now with bigger and more powerful one.
That's the way "real" life goes. The claim that "this is 2019, violence shouldn't exist" is great but unrealistic. War will always exist. And we can't depend on the cops, only ourselves for defense. The cops will arrive in 30 minutes
@Nadim171 And do neighbors do anything about it? Actually because of the self defense culture there, people lost communications. by the way the article I presented to you got updated https://www.quora.com/How-safe-is-China try to keep scrolling till you see Mathew Bell's answer and so on. And yeah we can't depend on cops and our neighbors now that gun are made legal.
@Nadim171 There may be lots of minor crimes there such as thief and snatchers or what ever that can be stopped by other civilians but gun violence like shooting random civilians don't happen a lot there also that can't be stopped unless you have guns as well. Quality vs quantity. You choose. Id rather be in a fist fight with groups of people than to face someone who carries guns. And just because that happens a lot doesn't exactly means that happens to a person everyday or even every year.
Less than the number of people killed in France and Britain by terrorists because they didn't have gun. Imagine a street with all people armed. Just like it used to be in the 1880s. When a crime happens you'll find all the civilians shooting the criminal
@Nadim171 Sure because that was invasion and they weren't prepared for it so they made use civilians instead causing people to be pro guns which also causes people to stop communicating and making more agencies that fights terrorists. Again you're making it sound like I'm trying to abolish guns here. I said it from the start. I'm not an anti gun either.
Didn't you get what I said disarming them is too late because it already started? Also, even China and Pacific was invaded by Japanese terrorists but they still never became a pro gun but only the military is allowed to own it which they work hard on. China is top 3rd of the rank and never been a pro gun also they're hard to invade.
Uhm, no. Making guns legal didn't make gun violence. That's asinine. You might as well claim making people legal made ALL violence. Just ban people. Then there's no violence. duh.
When you imagine that distant fuzzy image of those 1960's happy full family standing infront of their freshly cut lawn wearing polo-esque clothing as if they're all living on an eternal golf-course, do you actually expect any of the things you're insinuating to be a factor in their society? The biggest deals were always just gangsters and bank robbers, if you take a step back and conceptualize the idea of say.. John Dillinger being propagated so hard back then that they campaign to try and take all the guns, it would be because "oh god we can't have any of these bank robbing gangsters on the street". It legitimately cannot be any different from that, it's all grasping at straws and part of me wonders if the government at this point is trying to make Americans believe guns are the thing to get mad about instead of getting mad at our society's failure of governance.
@whatamievendoing117 "John Dillinger being propagated so hard back then that they campaign to try and take all the guns" I'm not even talking about talking all the guns because I know that will make it worse. But chances are people who already own guns (because guys are easier to get in the wast) can turn violent. Also discourages people to make use of cops and agencies.
I mean you can call the cops or emergency services but I'd like to see how long you're on the line before the operator is forced to hear your blood-curdling screams and any of the people you were supposed to protect. Law enforcement can't be depended on (in this day and age/society).
Texas always worked out because everyone knows everyone has guns. Who's gonna do something stupid? A stupid person would. A stupid person would die. Best thing I could ask for in a world that's attempting to remove natural selection.
@whatamievendoing117 It's no body's fault why houses there are not walled. Ok lets say for example someone got shot because "he was robing" No body can hear the side of the story of the person who get shot and who gets the honor? The person who shot. And there are other tools you can use other than guns. And see? Because of guns, that encourages your society to have a self defense culture where no bodies talking to each other anymore because you own guns anyways. Just like bullying at school, no teacher is gonna take actions because everyone's encourage to do self defense. And if you're talking about criminal who owns guns, chances are he was once legal or he easily stole it from a gun store (because it exists there due to pro gun that started in the first place)
So about that self defense culture when it comes to bullying at school, chances are those victims can't handle it and start school shooting, get traumatized for life or commit suicide. That may not be surprising for you but it's surprising to us because suicide happens here less and school shooting never happened here.
To be honest, if you're in my home slowly walking up my stairs and my rifle is trained at my chest, I am very clearly not about to care about it. If teachers had the ability to fan student's asses for bullying or perhaps lived in a world like a decade-and-a-half ago they'd sit the kids out and tell them to settle their differences (encourage the victim to knock the bully senseless or at least stand up for themselves.)
Pro-gun never simply just existed, it was there because we had a society that could handle it. You simply cannot look at today and even compare it with the early 2000's, how are we to even go further back and compare? We can't. America is dealing with problems that transcend the idea of gun ownership.
You speak from compassion so it's hard if not impossible for you to see it that way, but someone like you won't be born and cultivated if it wasn't for people saying what I am essentially saying. It's the premise that some people express adamancy (<- fake word) in this so that others can simply be themselves, like soldiers in war, so others don't have to.
I think the problem is so deep nothing can be said but disturbing things in the matter, but the way everything is is simply due to America being so fucky with itself that we've weakened ourselves to the point where, historically speaking, struggle/conflict will undoubtedly happen in order for things to be "reset" to a certain degree. When that time comes I sure hope most of us still have our guns, I wouldn't relinquish mine, you can flatten my house with me in it.
@whatamievendoing117 Like what I said from the start "This is why i'm neither a pro gun and an anti gun." This is like clock work. I don't wanna keep saying the same thing over and over again but maybe you should read the thread and the article I presented there. And yeah people like you are making me seem like an anti gun. I'm completely aware that abolishing guns and making gun laws strict can increase crimes that's why I'm not an anti gun because making guns legal already started.
You're the third one who gave me the same reason why you're a pro gun. Cool. I'm still not changing my views because I believe in that article I presented. Also that's not just in China but a lot of Asian countries.
Hey now I'm just saying all this from a position, I'm not actually badgering you with it or anything let me make that clear. I thought there was just a mutual soapbox thing going on where we're doing just that, expressing the expression and going "huh..!" at one another.
Sure sure! I don't think you're dumb or anything like that! Maybe in full honesty I just think you don't understand fully its importance, but besides that, it's not like you're deaf or dull or anything.
It makes sense to you because.. well, okay so you ARE living in an Asian country as you say right? The school shootings and such don't happen probably because your society isn't facing such ripples like us. Not only is the West absolutely buckling under their own problems in this singular mental entity but this melting pot of a nation might as well be comprised of 325 million people from 325 million different places, founded on different cultures and ideals entirely. I make it sound chaotic but truly, how isn't it?
I'm Lithuanian by blood, if my homeland, Lithuania was the size of the Russian Federation they'd be quite screwed because they are one of the nations with the highest suicide rates. If they owned guns and did this some would believe access to guns makes ~everybody~ kill themselves. It's a bit weak of a comparison but at the same time it's entirely revealing to my only point which is; It's only a matter of perception that is personalized by the life and civil status around you, further altered by the distant information you hear that is hardly tangible.
I hope you do have fun with this convo tho, my only part in it was to to scratch my chin with ya.
@whatamievendoing117 So basically people there are pro gun because of terrorists. Ok but Asia has also been invaded in history by the Japanese but they still never became a pro gun but only the military is allowed to own it which they work hard on. China is top 3rd of the rank and never been a pro gun also they're hard to invade. You're talking about invasion there not domestic crimes. And I'm sure because that's the west is the melting point like what you said, there are always check points inspecting people if their bringing guns or not. So that's the point of pro guns causing gun violence in the first place. Domestic gun violence wouldn't happen if that never started. And I know you'll say "but that don't even happen much" true that don't happen much unlike other countries with high crime rates but quality wise, criminals who owns guns from a pro gun country are more powerful who don't only victimize one person. The last time that happened was October 2018 in Las Vegas. Yeah that was a long time ago except people who got killed were groups. Id rather face thugs with no guns than to face someone with guns even if I have people by my side.
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Yep. But you're not going to convince the anti's with facts and logic - it's all about the FEELZ.
They actually think if you make it tougher for our citizens then the bad guys won't be able to get guns. The logic there is stupefying.
I know what you mean about people who FEEL a certain way.
Sorta of like the people who want to lump gender, and sex in the same category, despite medical evidence, because of the FEELZ, right?
@EnglishArtsteacher Gender and sex IS the same. Just look in your panties - whatever ya got that's what you are. Duh.
I'm not American but I agree with the second amendment. But most Americans don't undertand it, it's not just for defense but to fight the government if they start with tyranny
Yeah good luck fighting off tanks, rockets, helicopters, jets, grenades etc. With shotguns and semi auto rifles.
Not to. mention missles and nukes
No, many Americans have rocket launchers. It's the same way the south fought against the union and Americans fought against the Brits
That is the dumbest thing I've heard today.
You have to register that with the government, so they know who has them.
They are expensive.
They are illegal in some states.
You assume they have them. I've never seen, in a decade of living there, anyone owning anything worse than fireworks or tannerite.
You are definitely correct on everything and also there is the fact that the goverment was infiltrated more and more since 1952 and the same people that whacked JFK have wanted a completely socialist world with no middle class for years. Gun control is a huge part of that. Once people give up their guns it is all over. It will be the elite and the poor we will be economic slaves and I truly believe half of these shootings are staged so people end up losing gun rights.
How about instead taking easy route and banning guns, americans would teach proper gun care? Switch is one of most armed countries and yed there is almost no gun crime. Shurly they are doing something right.
Banning something is easy, working with people to prewent harm isn't. But you have that monkey president so why not ban them?
My bro is pro-gun.
I'm in a profession in which I sometimes visit peoples houses. My brother wanted me to get a gun ti take with me. My job isn't practical to have a gun physically on me, itd have to be in my bag. I told my brother, "so if this person didn't already have a gun, im giving them the opportunity to obtain one?"
Or you could be giving yourself an opportunity not to get murdered. You know, by having a way to defend yourself. But eh, think of it however you like.
@Kiran04 most people aren't murderers. Sorry that you feel that paranoid and insecure
I'm not concerned about most people. I'm concerned about those that are murderers. And wait a minute, if they aren't murderers then why are you so concerned about them obtaining your gun then? If they aren't murderers or bad, then how are they going to obtain your gun? You just defeated your own original argument, because if the people you visit are good to begin with then why are you afraid of them taking your gun? Lol.
@Kiran04 I'm not concerned, i was adressing my brothers concern. He was the one who suggested a gun for "protection". I'm not getting one because i dont need one.
On top of that I'm a stranger going into their house just as much as I'm going into a strangers home, no one wants a stranger coming into their house with a gun.
No one wants to go into a stranger's house and be murdered either. We don't get to choose how everything in life plays out. We only get to choose how we're prepared for how things might play out. Fortune always favors the prepared.
@Kiran04 yeah, like someone could take my gun and shoot me
Or I could lose all business because im carrying a gub
Ok that's right in a sense, because without prevalence of guns just like here in the U. K. ; we have high numbers of knife crimes and knife homicides. So taking away the firearm, people will just find another means to kill via stone slabs, rocks or swords or even a pencil.
But bear in mind the chances of surviving gunshot wound is slim, one round or shell can kill. Whereas a knife wound, there is still chance the victim could survive and paramedics can save them.
In the movies, sure, they can be saved. In real life, a wound is a wound, no matter what caused it.
You realise that terrorists literally suggest that people who want to join should join go to America to get their firearms.
A man literally tells his followers "you can go to certain states, and acquire a gun without a waiting period, or a background check, so what are you waiting for?
Wrong, no evidence and also you cannot get a gun without a waiting period or a background check ANYWHERE, otherwise it's illegal. And you can go to jail...
@GunLover username checks out, and I'd suggest you actually do some research on that before making such claims.
I have done my research bud, and it concludes that it's illegal to obtain a gun without a waiting period or background check. Once again give me the evidence that some terrorists are telling people to go to the U. S to get a gun legally without the limitations. Evidence, Evidence, Evidence, where is it?
Just gonna leave this here
Cool, this is just a mentally ill way of thinking and baseless assumptions, though.
Empirical evidence easily refutes these claims.
Mentally ill? It's called having a differing opinion. Go ahead and share the evidence if you'd like.
I could, but I don't care enough to spoon feed you all that information.
There are tons and tons of information on this topic online from well documented sources for those who want to listen.
From profiling of gun owners as erratic, impulsive people with exceedingly paranoid ideations that do not reflect the reality of their environment, being contributing factor of the problem.
Through the precise documentation of how the lack of gun control effectively causes most of the gun crime in South American countries such as El Salvador which despite having no local firearm manufacture, is flooded with firearms because of how easy they are to smuggle from the US because of its non-existent gun regulations.
Followed by definite proofs of the effectiveness of gun regulations as demonstrated by the actions taken in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo in where they managed to lower gun homicide by almost 70% following drastic crackdowns on arms.
As well as the piles and piles of papers of empirical data that outline clear correlations between gun ownership, gun control and gun-related deaths in such socioeconomic environments such as Switzerland, Hong Kong, Japan in contrast to places like Serbia, Russia and Montenegro.
And that's not even just talking about crime.
Historic data shows that availability of means of suicide is one of the biggest driving causes of suicide in general.
Suicide as an impulsive act represents 90% of cases, and regulation of firearm availability is important factor in curbing suicide rates because it is among the most convenient ways to kill yourself.
Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws. Has it helped them? Chicago is cesspool
@Rissyanne Chicago has confiscated more illicit firearms per capita than any other major US city.
The reason why it remains riddled with gun crime is because firearms keep being easily imported from the rest of Illinois and the neighboring Indiana which are places with some of the weakest gun control laws in the country.
@Rissyanne Gun control works. Historically, prohibition has always worked, in spite of what junkies and certain politicians regurgitate.
For guns, drugs, everything.
If something doesn't work, you have to look deeper to understand why it doesn't.
All you will be doing is getting the guns out of law abiding citizens. Criminals will always get guns. And with you liberals wanting open borders... how hard will it be for the criminals to get guns? But you will have it exactly the way you want. Citizens no guns... criminals will have the guns.
@Rissyanne "Criminals will always get guns."
No they won't, if you stop manufacturing guns, there will be no guns for criminals to "get".
It is very simple logic.
Well we have anti drug laws and there is still drugs out there. You just want the criminals to have the guns
Today there are two questions: first, how to deduct themselves from robbers and an armed attack. You need a weapon or a personal pistol. And the second question is how to ensure protection against bad people who also buy pistols, but not for self-defense...
The personal safety of everyone is important today
Any time lately when gun control gets brought up I always flash on this movie clip
https://youtu.be/8Nl8eMXiDvcOnly retards want gun control. Retards who are clueless about crime and violence. If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. So you achieve nothing except taking the honest people's chance of defense and survival.
The KKK was a democrat organization. Huge list of major dems in the kkk.
@bamesjond0069 Yeah, in 1890. Who are the KKK voting for now? Republicans.
Don't even play that tired old bit. Haven't you ever heard of Southern Strategy?
Who they vote for is irrelevant. I don't know why they even do. Conservatives believe in god given rights and free market and meritocracy which is completely opposite to identity politics which both the KKK and modern democrats have in common.
@bamesjond0069 No they don't. Conservatives seek to reinforce cultural hierarchies. They most certainly believe in identity politics. Have you never heard a conservative say that we're a "christian nation" or talk about "white genocide" or anything like that? Look at the identitarian movement in Europe. Look at the xenophobes in the states. That's textbook conservatism. And if you ask the KKK, they'll tell you, they're conservative. And if you'd like to learn more, I suggest you look into southern strategy -- because it's the Republicans who are fighting to save confederate statues and memorials in public places, who defend Robert E. Lee and the confederacy, etc.
Look back at the tradition of conservatism from Edmund Burke, to Donald Trump. It's defined by its resistance to change in society.
Ahh so anyone who says they are a democrat speaks for democrats? So LBJ said the n word a bazillion times. Does that mean all democrats believe thats the thing to do because you all mainly still like and are supportive of the lbj presidency? If you won't use common sense judging conservatives why would conservatives not thing you are a racist for being favoravle to lbj?
@bamesjond0069
Lyndon Johnson was a racist, and that was wrong. I would encourage my fellow democrats to say the same: don't apologize for his racism, acknowledge that it was wrong.
But here's the thing, democrats at large are not racist. You can find a handful of white supremacists in the party, they will be few and far between, but you may just find some. If you want to find the Americans fighting hardest for the marginalized, you'll find them in the Democratic [and Green] Party.
Republicans are a different story. The GOP post-1970 is a party that has fanned the flames of racial tension, and been vehicles for xenophobia, nativism, etc. You have congressmen like Steve King, governors like Paul LePage, Presidents like Donald Trump, to name a few, who are racist. If you cast a vote for these individuals, you're saying racism isn't a dealbreaker. You are somewhere between tolerating racism and being racist.
I'm not saying that all Republicans are white nationalists, because not every single one is. Buuuuuuuuut, if you're a white nationalist and looking for a political party, I think I know which of the main two is probably most appealing to you (I'm sure many of the real ones are attracted to the Constitution Party and the A3P).
I rarely hear republicans even talk about race. I think I've yet to hear a single speach by a democrat that does not mention race. In my personal life i deal with many races and tbh i never even think about it nor is it brought up almost like its not even important. So its seems like democrats are obsessed with race and think its so important but my real life tells me its not. So im more inclined to think democrats to be racist.
I agree with your views on gun control by the way, and that's probably one of my most liberal views.
But whether anyone wants to admit it, or not, the Democrats created most racist organized groups. And I don't care about this whole "the platforms shifted" nonsense-because it doesn't stop the fact Andrew Jackson (the founder of the Democratic Party), and other Democrats were the backbones of systematic racism in this country.
These days, Democrats are your subtle racists, where as Republicans are your blatant racists. I don't belong to a political party (and you agreed with me Democrats aren't that much different than Republicans on another post).
@EnglishArtsteacher Look, I'd love to have a fully, 100% squeaky clean of racism party, but the Green Party and SPUSA aren't in great shape.
The Democrats are de-facto antiracist. They are 99.9% antiracist, and that's probably the best we can do.
The reality is that all the racists of that old time are gone. They left the party. Have you not ever heard of Southern Strategy before?
I heard there were rumors of Joe Biden complaining that there were still old timey southern democrats that hung around in some areas. I can't speak to whether or not that rumor is true, but what you should consider is that these racists would be our most conservative members. These would be paleocons. These aren't racist liberals, they are racist conservatives who are still registered with the party.
No you're all racist now. For example voter id laws, i keep hearing from democrats requiring id to vote is racist because it will make it hard for black people to vote? Why? Dont black people have ids? Or do you think they are too dumb to have an id? Id love for you to bridge the gap here. How does a voter id law keep black people from voting?
Taking guns from law-abiding citizens is akin to banning sober drivers from owning cars because of drunk drivers.
You should have prevented this. Who stores they gun armed and ready to shot? Who let children handle them? Why is it not locked up?
If it's not loaded and ready to rock and roll, what's even the point? Crime happens in mere seconds. You have to be ready at an instance's notice. Having them locked up and unloaded would make a gun 100% useless as a defensive tool.
As a kid I knew where some of the guns were at but never the ammo. However my dad always told me if I wanted to see them or hold them to ask permission from him. You know what, I listened because I was taught to listen to my parents. Kids are very touchy feely and curious in general but it comes down to how well the adult has taught them to not touch certain things without permission.
You can make some arguments for keeping guns but the argument about fighting a tyrannical government? Good luck fighting the US military.
Be a heck of a fight though
Because making guns legal in the first place is the cause of of gun violence it is too late to disarm them now. This is why i'm neither a pro gun and an anti gun.
Guns protect innocents from burglars and rapists. Criminals will get guns the same way they get drugs
@Nadim171 https://www.quora.com/How-safe-is-China
@Nadim171 Why fight someone without guns with guns? It's no bodies fault your houses aren't walled. It's no bodies fault no one would take actions for anyone because of that self defense culture. So making guns legal at first is the cause of gun violence and like what I said, disarming them makes it worse because if you disarm, only those legal gun owners's guns will be taken away.
Basically like bullying at school. Everyone's taught to do self defense that's why teachers and parents don't do anything until get gets to the point the victims can't handle it and start school shooting or commit suicide.
So America isn't safe because of guns? I can agree about that if you're talking about school shooters. But being a school student myself, I don't need a gun I can simply use a knife.
And the second amendment isn't about defense but about war. The founding fathers wrote it so that the civilians can fight a corrupt government or fight invaders. If the Jews owned guns in Germany they could have survived and escaped the holocaust.
@Nadim171 While their crimes are less compared, quality wise, they're more violent. It's good you're not a school shooter but just because you're not one of those school shooters doesn't really change the average or amount.
I don't think guns should be allowed in schools just the same way I'm not allowed to take a knife with me at school. And the way liberals act, like if making guns legal makes shooting people legal makes no sense. If you carry a gun that's legal. If you shoot someone you'll go to jail so shooting is illegal
@Nadim171 That's why there are officials. For some reason the officials can't take actions right away because no neighborhood can threaten those crimes or police can make it in time because chances are they assume you own guns for defense.
@Nadim171 But it has started so there's there's no point disarming them now. I would still say it's the pro gun's fault in the first place and again, I'm not an anti gun because that can worsen things up.
Well you can't make gun control work. This will lead to a revolution. At least the south won't give up on their guns.
@Nadim171 Basically like nukes. USA is making more nukes because Russia is making more nukes because China is making more nukes because North Korea is making more nukes and so on. All for self defense. No bodies gonna disarm their nukes first and lets all wait till one fires it up after decades of no nukes being detonated but now with bigger and more powerful one.
That's the way "real" life goes. The claim that "this is 2019, violence shouldn't exist" is great but unrealistic. War will always exist. And we can't depend on the cops, only ourselves for defense. The cops will arrive in 30 minutes
@Nadim171 And do neighbors do anything about it? Actually because of the self defense culture there, people lost communications. by the way the article I presented to you got updated https://www.quora.com/How-safe-is-China try to keep scrolling till you see Mathew Bell's answer and so on. And yeah we can't depend on cops and our neighbors now that gun are made legal.
And Ervis Micukaj too
@Nadim171 There may be lots of minor crimes there such as thief and snatchers or what ever that can be stopped by other civilians but gun violence like shooting random civilians don't happen a lot there also that can't be stopped unless you have guns as well. Quality vs quantity. You choose. Id rather be in a fist fight with groups of people than to face someone who carries guns. And just because that happens a lot doesn't exactly means that happens to a person everyday or even every year.
This doesn't happen a lot, how many times crazy people started shooting civilians on the streets in the US in 2018? Maybe like 1 time
@Nadim171 Yeah I know that happens a lot. Thanks to pro guns.
I mean that still happens. Not a lot but still happens.
and yeah once but how many were dead?
Less than the number of people killed in France and Britain by terrorists because they didn't have gun. Imagine a street with all people armed. Just like it used to be in the 1880s. When a crime happens you'll find all the civilians shooting the criminal
@Nadim171 Sure because that was invasion and they weren't prepared for it so they made use civilians instead causing people to be pro guns which also causes people to stop communicating and making more agencies that fights terrorists. Again you're making it sound like I'm trying to abolish guns here. I said it from the start. I'm not an anti gun either.
Didn't you get what I said disarming them is too late because it already started? Also, even China and Pacific was invaded by Japanese terrorists but they still never became a pro gun but only the military is allowed to own it which they work hard on. China is top 3rd of the rank and never been a pro gun also they're hard to invade.
Not just china but east Asian countries as well.
I undertand. And I respect that
Uhm, no. Making guns legal didn't make gun violence. That's asinine. You might as well claim making people legal made ALL violence. Just ban people. Then there's no violence. duh.
@Kiran04 Exept people are made naturally. What other purpose gun do other than to kill?
@Kiran04 Not a really good comparison. I guess you didn't read the article I presented here.
When you imagine that distant fuzzy image of those 1960's happy full family standing infront of their freshly cut lawn wearing polo-esque clothing as if they're all living on an eternal golf-course, do you actually expect any of the things you're insinuating to be a factor in their society? The biggest deals were always just gangsters and bank robbers, if you take a step back and conceptualize the idea of say.. John Dillinger being propagated so hard back then that they campaign to try and take all the guns, it would be because "oh god we can't have any of these bank robbing gangsters on the street". It legitimately cannot be any different from that, it's all grasping at straws and part of me wonders if the government at this point is trying to make Americans believe guns are the thing to get mad about instead of getting mad at our society's failure of governance.
What article? Your response is just two sentences that are a non-argument. Just you pretending you can state something and it'll magically be true.
@whatamievendoing117 "John Dillinger being propagated so hard back then that they campaign to try and take all the guns" I'm not even talking about talking all the guns because I know that will make it worse. But chances are people who already own guns (because guys are easier to get in the wast) can turn violent. Also discourages people to make use of cops and agencies.
@Kiran04 I'm gonna copy paste it again https://www.quora.com/How-safe-is-China And that article is updated. Scroll down till you see someone talking about the gun laws.
I mean you can call the cops or emergency services but I'd like to see how long you're on the line before the operator is forced to hear your blood-curdling screams and any of the people you were supposed to protect. Law enforcement can't be depended on (in this day and age/society).
Texas always worked out because everyone knows everyone has guns. Who's gonna do something stupid? A stupid person would. A stupid person would die. Best thing I could ask for in a world that's attempting to remove natural selection.
@whatamievendoing117 It's no body's fault why houses there are not walled. Ok lets say for example someone got shot because "he was robing" No body can hear the side of the story of the person who get shot and who gets the honor? The person who shot. And there are other tools you can use other than guns. And see? Because of guns, that encourages your society to have a self defense culture where no bodies talking to each other anymore because you own guns anyways. Just like bullying at school, no teacher is gonna take actions because everyone's encourage to do self defense. And if you're talking about criminal who owns guns, chances are he was once legal or he easily stole it from a gun store (because it exists there due to pro gun that started in the first place)
So about that self defense culture when it comes to bullying at school, chances are those victims can't handle it and start school shooting, get traumatized for life or commit suicide. That may not be surprising for you but it's surprising to us because suicide happens here less and school shooting never happened here.
To be honest, if you're in my home slowly walking up my stairs and my rifle is trained at my chest, I am very clearly not about to care about it. If teachers had the ability to fan student's asses for bullying or perhaps lived in a world like a decade-and-a-half ago they'd sit the kids out and tell them to settle their differences (encourage the victim to knock the bully senseless or at least stand up for themselves.)
Pro-gun never simply just existed, it was there because we had a society that could handle it. You simply cannot look at today and even compare it with the early 2000's, how are we to even go further back and compare? We can't. America is dealing with problems that transcend the idea of gun ownership.
You speak from compassion so it's hard if not impossible for you to see it that way, but someone like you won't be born and cultivated if it wasn't for people saying what I am essentially saying. It's the premise that some people express adamancy (<- fake word) in this so that others can simply be themselves, like soldiers in war, so others don't have to.
I think the problem is so deep nothing can be said but disturbing things in the matter, but the way everything is is simply due to America being so fucky with itself that we've weakened ourselves to the point where, historically speaking, struggle/conflict will undoubtedly happen in order for things to be "reset" to a certain degree. When that time comes I sure hope most of us still have our guns, I wouldn't relinquish mine, you can flatten my house with me in it.
@whatamievendoing117 Like what I said from the start "This is why i'm neither a pro gun and an anti gun." This is like clock work. I don't wanna keep saying the same thing over and over again but maybe you should read the thread and the article I presented there. And yeah people like you are making me seem like an anti gun. I'm completely aware that abolishing guns and making gun laws strict can increase crimes that's why I'm not an anti gun because making guns legal already started.
You're the third one who gave me the same reason why you're a pro gun. Cool. I'm still not changing my views because I believe in that article I presented. Also that's not just in China but a lot of Asian countries.
Hey now I'm just saying all this from a position, I'm not actually badgering you with it or anything let me make that clear. I thought there was just a mutual soapbox thing going on where we're doing just that, expressing the expression and going "huh..!" at one another.
@whatamievendoing117 Same I'm just expressing my expression why I will never be a pro gun.
And yeah you're giving my something as if I'm not aware that abolishing guns will make it worse so I'm just gonna say I knew that fyi.
Sure sure! I don't think you're dumb or anything like that! Maybe in full honesty I just think you don't understand fully its importance, but besides that, it's not like you're deaf or dull or anything.
It makes sense to you because.. well, okay so you ARE living in an Asian country as you say right? The school shootings and such don't happen probably because your society isn't facing such ripples like us. Not only is the West absolutely buckling under their own problems in this singular mental entity but this melting pot of a nation might as well be comprised of 325 million people from 325 million different places, founded on different cultures and ideals entirely. I make it sound chaotic but truly, how isn't it?
I'm Lithuanian by blood, if my homeland, Lithuania was the size of the Russian Federation they'd be quite screwed because they are one of the nations with the highest suicide rates. If they owned guns and did this some would believe access to guns makes ~everybody~ kill themselves. It's a bit weak of a comparison but at the same time it's entirely revealing to my only point which is; It's only a matter of perception that is personalized by the life and civil status around you, further altered by the distant information you hear that is hardly tangible.
I hope you do have fun with this convo tho, my only part in it was to to scratch my chin with ya.
@whatamievendoing117 So basically people there are pro gun because of terrorists. Ok but Asia has also been invaded in history by the Japanese but they still never became a pro gun but only the military is allowed to own it which they work hard on. China is top 3rd of the rank and never been a pro gun also they're hard to invade. You're talking about invasion there not domestic crimes. And I'm sure because that's the west is the melting point like what you said, there are always check points inspecting people if their bringing guns or not. So that's the point of pro guns causing gun violence in the first place. Domestic gun violence wouldn't happen if that never started. And I know you'll say "but that don't even happen much" true that don't happen much unlike other countries with high crime rates but quality wise, criminals who owns guns from a pro gun country are more powerful who don't only victimize one person. The last time that happened was October 2018 in Las Vegas. Yeah that was a long time ago except people who got killed were groups. Id rather face thugs with no guns than to face someone with guns even if I have people by my side.
Guns are not the problem
the stupid people are the problem :)
This is where I love where I live.. 12 million residents in my states and nearly 20 million guns..
I agree, there are too many stupid/retarded people living in the US.