These answers are a little bit paranoid. I would say that people are abusive about the movement because they are using it as an excuse to kill careers. And in the big Hollywood cases it’s probably true because some of these directors diddle kids. I would also say that the #metoo also includes men. Assault is more common than people would like to admit and I would advice people to evaluate each case separately
Yes, mainly it makes me not want to initiate or flirt with a girl because all it will take is one false accusation to ruin my life. The #MeToo movement has shown that no matter what women will always be believed and it doesn't matter how suspicious the circumstances are or the complete lack of evidence, society as a whole will always side with her against men. Its not a very good thing.
I mean NO OFFENSE, at all, to any women that were taken advantage of, groped, raped, or abused, OK? What bothers me, is that one comes out, and says some guy did this, then others come out, saying he did similar things, 10-20 years ago. I DON'T understand women, at all, and I can't even imagine what that kind of abuse is like, but if it happened, 20 years ago, why didn't they say something then? It just seems like a conspiracy, to trash some guy, when he did something horrible to a woman, recently, then dozens come in with the 'he did that to me too', but a long time ago. Ladies, I adore you, respect you, and I would NEVER do any of these things that some have been accused of, but could someone explain why so many wait, literally decades, to come out and say they were assaulted? And why is it only when someone in the news, gets accused? Some women, have also been recently accused, firing male assistants, when they didn't seem to comply with her invitations.
Easier said than done. Coming out is incredibly difficult. Even more so if its a well respected and loved person. You feel this kind of intense shame of what happened and somehow you very often end up blaming yourself for what happened, so you don't want to bring it up, or you have lost hope that anyone will even take you serious, or will judge you, and you just try to shove what happened away to forget about it, but you're not actually fully moving on.
When someone eventually has the courage to come out about it you come to the realisation that actually, maybe it wasn't your fault that you were raped after all and you're just one of their victims. Numbers give confidence in people to come forward about what happened to them. A large majority will not take the first step, but after one has, other victims will quite often follow.
The reason they come forward when someone's on the news is because thats often the only way they find out that someone's come forward.
@Rainie_ Thank you for explaining!! I never imagined all that, and how you might feel, as a woman, and the shame, and blaming, even when you were the one that was abused, or victimized! Maybe if more knew this, and could understand it, like you explained!!
As someone who was wrongly accused. Yes it does. When I was a young man I worked as a Security guard and a Fire Fighter First Responder. I was working as a Security guard when a female asked me a medical questions because of some of the medical questions I had to ask she went to her boss and I got terminated for sexual harassment. After they furthered the investigation I was offered my job back and she got terminated but it still showes that some woman lie for attention.
I am in an exclusive relationship and the movement doesn't effect that. As far as day to day, this witch hunt mentality effects everyone. The fact that women can destroy a man's career, social standing, and political ambitions on her word alone is disturbing. There is no doubt that sexual harassment exists, that people are molested, and that rape does happen and it can be deviating to the victim. But we need to balance victim's rights with the rights of an accused person to be able to defend themselves. An accusation does not equate guilt or even that an act happened. The #MeeToo movement has forgotten about the rights of the accused.
At my job, I'm much more wary of letting any of my female collegues be alone with me in a room. I am not keen on losing my job because a vindictive underling is mad at me for my telling them to actually do their damned job.
My place of work has already had two men fired in this way. One was an actual case of sexual harrasment, the other was a cashier asking for a date. But it made the girl "uncomfortable", so the boy was termed.
If I must be alone with an underling, I feel like I have to set my phone to record the conversation at this point.
My brother, a secretary at a massage parlor, got fired because he had a feud with a bitchy co-worker. As soon as the movement hit the national stage, she used it to fire him.
In general, I don't trust women as much as I used to, and it definitely colors wether or not I take the plunge and approach any these days.
No, a friend of mine voluntarily went on a afternoon fuckfest with 2 middle aged men. 2 months later she accused a dude she was making out with that he's a pig for suggesting they go to his place after prom.
And she and other girls didn't even see that as weird. The only girl that called her out was more of a hater and said she was selfish.
Women, and their fickle values and behaviours changed how I look at potential romantic relationships. I've seen women go from harpie to perfect guest un seconds just because a stranger entered the room.
Women the emotionally closer you are to a woman, the more she asks of you and the shittier she behaves.
A stranger, will not be accused of rape, a 30 minute hookup in a bathroom will not be considered abusive, because it's in the head o passion. But let that heat disipate, cool down and slow down... and have a huge conversation and the expectations go way up like it's the 1800s.
Yup... Just don't bother, because even if you do everything you can to be nice and show respect, any girl with an agenda and a chip on their shoulder will claim anything as an "Unwanted Advance" and throw you under the bus for 15 mins of fame & attention.
Apparently due process doesn't exist in this country when women decide it's time for another witch hunt.
Doesn't matter cause I don't have female friends, don't get laid, I love single and gave up on relationships so this doesn't really affect me. I wasn't going to approach a woman anyway since I already knew we could have a consensual relationship that eventually she redacted into a victim scenario. I watched my parents go through it so this is nothing new to me, feminism has always done this.
Yes it's taught men that women are to be avoided at all costs. It's sad really.
Woman has sex with man Woman regrets that sex many years later, Woman puts it on social media Man is tried and convicted before any proof is heard, worst of all it's in the court of public opinion not a judicial court. Man's life is ruined.
Me too is a witch hunt no more no less. It's an exorcise in doing everything they can to destroy men's lives.
Well, in the sense that a feminist writing about it pissed me off to the extent that I was hostile to a female colleague who was flirting with me, thus immediately ending the flirting, yes, it has. I'm fine about victims coming forward, I hate that feminists-for-hire turn it into a war of the sexes. As if lots of the victims weren't male.
Yes. I will never date a feminist because if anything I do can even remotely be construed as bad sex I will lose my job and be publicly shamed should the relationship end.
Just too dang risky. Only conservative girls for this guy it seems...
Strange how MeeToo now makes men act like Vice president Pence: never be alone in a room with a woman. What's next? Segregation of sexes in education and work?
Honestly, a lot of women would feel more safe that way if it were AN OPTION for public transits and schools (where most women have to deal with sexual assault or discrimination; like being a distraction to men). If it was pure segregation with no options... that wouldn't be fair to the men and little boys who also get raped by men.
I know that i'd, personally, feel more safe and comforted knowing that my little sister, mother and I would be safe away from male harassment if we were provided those options.
@sugarchateau I have to agree. But what would even be nicer is if we could live peacefully together, if only people would just take responsibility for their own actions.
Okay well, clearly, you haven't been kicked out of class (interrupting your own time for education) for your choice of clothes because an older male teacher sent you to the office for what he reported was too revealing and distracting... when it was just capri shorts. Maybe you didn't have to deal with male adults sexualizing you, but it is still important.
Hmm, so my sex does not give me the right to be moral? Ever heard of dress code? Just wait till you get to work in a professional environment. Your generation seems to think that dressing up any way you like is you right. Problem is, you don't know your responsibilities! Your responsibility (regardless of sex, age, etc) is to dress appropriately. Would you wear bikini to church? Would you wear hot pants for a job interview? No? So what is appropriate for education environment? Does your school have a dress code? Do you follow it?
I never said that you weren't moral... I said maybe you didn't have the same experiences... Capri shorts do make the dress code and men have been wearing shirts that sexualize females on it with their cartoon tits out but haven't been sent to the office for disrupting anything. How is that fair? I do follow dress code and modestly... I dont even wear a bikini, ever. Capri shorts are 1 inch above the knee... Why are you being so closed-minded? honestly?
Kind of... All its done is make me more picky about who I want to date. I have certain things that I look for. And then the rest of the women I don't necessarily trust... So I mean sure they know and see as little of me as possible. A man works too hard and can get it taken so easily if you are even PRECIEVED to have done something wrong in the sexual department.
In my opinion, most women are confessing the most insignificant negative sexual behavior, only because its gone mainstream now. There are many much more worse cases but they remain hidden from the society because there are lots of other slightly rougher than normal, which, for some reason, are more interesting to the audience. This is seriously getting out of hand. There can’t be so much abuse and rape. It’s not normal.
Yes, I'm not going to approach women in public. I will never comment on their appearance. And I will not touch them. And if a woman wants a kiss on the first date, she better make it obvious. I'm not placing myself in any situation like that.
The confusing part is when women get upset demanding men take initiative because thet don't anymore... but all of that initiative is catcalling, groping, and benevolent sexism.
Hmm... well, I haven't dealt with this problem in a long time, but I know that if you pay attention to social cues and context, there shouldn't be any confusion. It is, for example, never appropriate to comment on a woman's appearance, however benign, in a boardroom meeting. It is just simply unprofessional. Going up to a girl in a library and saying: "Hey, can I ask what book you're reading" is totally different from "Hey baby girl, looking mighty fine today, care to come up to my apartment"...
The dating world can include the workplace. A lot of people meet there. I gave you an example on how to approach and not to approach in a different setting.
I don't think you understand why it's inappropriate. Why is it so hard to just say "Hi, how are you?" Why does it have to include a comment on appearance? Again, if you have any understanding of social cues, this shouldn't be a problem.
A simple Hi can be labeled as harassment. Try being stereotyped as a rapist simply because of your gender on a daily basis. It will drastically change how you interact with the opposite sex.
As we've seen in the news recently, men are supposed to know the difference between positive body language that is real, and positive body language that isn't real. I'm just simply not going to approach women in person, instead initiating conversation online, so there is a clear record as to what was said. I don't understand why this is so offensive to women that men take proactive steps to prevent harassment.
I'm not offended, however, you seem to be. I asked a question, you answered, then I answered yours in turn, with which you weren't happy. I'm congratulating you on the fact that you are not going to approach women with inappropriate compliments or touches. Good for you. Don't do it. That *is* harassment. Repeated flirting when someone clearly states no interest is harassment. So is sending random dick pictures or throwing a tantrum when you meet resistance from a woman. I'm giving you some clear guidelines. Take it or leave it, the consequences are in your hands.
Lol nope, all I did was state how I'm backing away from taking initiative, and you've suggested things (walking up to strangers, hitting on people in the worlplace) that simply aren't realistic in the 21st century.
Look at the youtube videos of whats considered "catcalling" there a lot of "hey how are you" comments that make the video. Social cues? Men are not mind readers. If a women is looking at me i know there is a big chance she likes me, but at the same time i dont go by cues because i dont play that childs game game. Say what you want and use words if you like someone, you are an adult. Most guys dont want to approach girls on the street and its completely reasonable and he is not wrong for being cautious.
Nobody is complaining sunshine, i am telling you that you shouldn't be giving him all this flack for being cautious. He can't be wrong if you never lived a day in his shoes. You dont understand that feeling and you never will. I am however lucky to find someone who i actually trust and we are great friends though.
I've gone out of my way to make sure my actions toward women are respectful, especially in the dating scene. But to be told I'm wrong for being cautious and proactive? Not my problem.
Lol!!! Look my point still stands, you can't tell someone they are wrong just because you dont agree. You dont understand that feeling he has, i do though being a man and all but asker you are not a man which is why you can probably never understand the reason why we are so paranoid to approach. Its basically like, some girls want us to be assertive, then the others dont. Its hard to dish that out and subtle signals get misinterpreted. You are right though, i dont speak on your experiences because i know im not a women..
@livinglikelarry223 I'm not faulting men for being proactive and cautious, but it seems that guys particularly don't want to understand what specific behaviors are inappropriate and why. I will say it again: I'm not complaining about initiative. I am bothered by the lack of willingness to understand *why* something is inappropriate or looking at the backstory that transpired that led to an inappropriate actions. In some cases, a simple Hi can be inappropriate. I have no problem meeting assertive men who have learned how to interact not just with women but people in general. It's also interesting that if men show paranoia, it is warranted, but if a woman says she feels paranoid about going outside and being catcalled, it's because women are overly emotional and have "unstable" moods. Very interesting, indeed.
"I'm not faulting men for being proactive and cautious, but it seems that guys particularly don't want to understand what specific behaviors are inappropriate and why."
Which guys? Guys are not a collective force and every situation isn't the same. A simple look at a girl can have you stigmatized as a potential pervert depending on the women. I understand how to behave, but some women also lack that sense of morality because they are human. This is not a one sided issue. On one hand there are bad guys out there, but calling for a witch hunt does not combat the problem but make it worse. Also, i didn't try to justify the catcalling situation when it actually turns into harassment. The only thing i addressed was when people got offended off of someone saying hi. People have freedom of speech whether you want to interpret and overthink a situation. It becomes a problem when someone is putting your life in danger of saying something disrespectful.
And it also becomes a problem when people are to scared to say hi because you may read into their tone and think "does he really mean that" think for a second, do you honestly think that this is a healthy environment for men or women to grow up in? Whats next? Will people start barricading their houses?
Thats why i said depending on the women. Once people start realizing that situations are bot dualistic then we can start alienating groups of people and actually work on the problem together. This movement is making people feel more uneasy than before though. Its not helping.
@livinglikelarry223 You know what. Welcome to the world of a woman. We live with this fear of being accosted, of being shamed, of being put down, of being paranoid whether our actions are misunderstood all. the. fucking. time. People *have* already started barricading their houses. White flight is an outgrowth of exactly that. And I disagree. This movement *is* helping. It's obviously weeding out the wheat from the chaff.
So? And who make up the majority of victims to crime? MEN. You made it clear what side you are on. You aren't for the cause, you are just hunting for peoples heads. With that said, i dont care about your self absorbed posts of righteousness. I know i am a good person who has never caused any threat to anyone so everything you told me does not apply to me. I dont feel guilty and i won't let you bring me down with you. Good bye and have a nice day
@livinglikelarry223 Ah, now come the ad hominems. The only person who is self-absorbed here is you. I have been patiently explaining and educating you. It is for you to take it or leave it, but remember that you have to live with the consequences of your actions. And, just to be clear, men are also the main perpetrators of crime.
"Oh men are the main perpetrators of crimes so that means that its morally right to undermine male victims" you didn't educate anything. You just talk a bunch of nothing. You are all talk and no facts.. This time i am muting you.
No #METOO is a joke, you can tell it is by the hypocrite celebrities involved in it. I think after the 2016 election people are tired of Hollywood preaching morality.
It's made me want to "screen" women more to make sure they're not these psychos that'll falsely accuse me of rape just because they got in a disagreement with me/I put my hand on their shoulder/whatever.
Women are becoming more and more aware of the legal and social power they have over men. It's important for men these days not to get married, not to cohabitate in common law states, not to share bank accounts, etc.
Well this is a very severe problem in the west, countries outside don't give them the same amount of bias but it's still there, just not as severe at least from what I've seen that's the case
@Johnbadman Well to be fair if anywhere needs advocacy for women's rights, it's the middle east.
That being said, you're right, extreme feminism is mostly a problem in the west. In the USA for instance many businesses are separating men and women because of all the false rape accusations.
The worst part is? #metoo legitimatizes REAL rape victims.
Ya it's basically a bunch of feminists who don't believe in the concept of consent and think any form of sex is rape based. Boys, don't date a feminist, because you will never have the opportunity to be intimate with her like a normal relationship. I'm done with sex shamers, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this natural phenomena..
Yeah it has. I'm not saying all these women are lying, but it makes me think just how far are people willing to go to compromise their better judgement for a payday? And, how could this trickle down to someone like me?
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These answers are a little bit paranoid. I would say that people are abusive about the movement because they are using it as an excuse to kill careers. And in the big Hollywood cases it’s probably true because some of these directors diddle kids. I would also say that the #metoo also includes men. Assault is more common than people would like to admit and I would advice people to evaluate each case separately
Yes, mainly it makes me not want to initiate or flirt with a girl because all it will take is one false accusation to ruin my life. The #MeToo movement has shown that no matter what women will always be believed and it doesn't matter how suspicious the circumstances are or the complete lack of evidence, society as a whole will always side with her against men. Its not a very good thing.
I mean NO OFFENSE, at all, to any women that were taken advantage of, groped, raped, or abused, OK?
What bothers me, is that one comes out, and says some guy did this, then others come out, saying he did similar things, 10-20 years ago.
I DON'T understand women, at all, and I can't even imagine what that kind of abuse is like, but if it happened, 20 years ago, why didn't they say something then? It just seems like a conspiracy, to trash some guy, when he did something horrible to a woman, recently, then dozens come in with the 'he did that to me too', but a long time ago.
Ladies, I adore you, respect you, and I would NEVER do any of these things that some have been accused of, but could someone explain why so many wait, literally decades, to come out and say they were assaulted? And why is it only when someone in the news, gets accused?
Some women, have also been recently accused, firing male assistants, when they didn't seem to comply with her invitations.
Easier said than done. Coming out is incredibly difficult. Even more so if its a well respected and loved person. You feel this kind of intense shame of what happened and somehow you very often end up blaming yourself for what happened, so you don't want to bring it up, or you have lost hope that anyone will even take you serious, or will judge you, and you just try to shove what happened away to forget about it, but you're not actually fully moving on.
When someone eventually has the courage to come out about it you come to the realisation that actually, maybe it wasn't your fault that you were raped after all and you're just one of their victims. Numbers give confidence in people to come forward about what happened to them.
A large majority will not take the first step, but after one has, other victims will quite often follow.
The reason they come forward when someone's on the news is because thats often the only way they find out that someone's come forward.
@Rainie_ Thank you for explaining!! I never imagined all that, and how you might feel, as a woman, and the shame, and blaming, even when you were the one that was abused, or victimized!
Maybe if more knew this, and could understand it, like you explained!!
As someone who was wrongly accused. Yes it does. When I was a young man I worked as a Security guard and a Fire Fighter First Responder. I was working as a Security guard when a female asked me a medical questions because of some of the medical questions I had to ask she went to her boss and I got terminated for sexual harassment. After they furthered the investigation I was offered my job back and she got terminated but it still showes that some woman lie for attention.
I am in an exclusive relationship and the movement doesn't effect that. As far as day to day, this witch hunt mentality effects everyone. The fact that women can destroy a man's career, social standing, and political ambitions on her word alone is disturbing. There is no doubt that sexual harassment exists, that people are molested, and that rape does happen and it can be deviating to the victim. But we need to balance victim's rights with the rights of an accused person to be able to defend themselves. An accusation does not equate guilt or even that an act happened. The #MeeToo movement has forgotten about the rights of the accused.
At my job, I'm much more wary of letting any of my female collegues be alone with me in a room. I am not keen on losing my job because a vindictive underling is mad at me for my telling them to actually do their damned job.
My place of work has already had two men fired in this way. One was an actual case of sexual harrasment, the other was a cashier asking for a date. But it made the girl "uncomfortable", so the boy was termed.
If I must be alone with an underling, I feel like I have to set my phone to record the conversation at this point.
My brother, a secretary at a massage parlor, got fired because he had a feud with a bitchy co-worker. As soon as the movement hit the national stage, she used it to fire him.
In general, I don't trust women as much as I used to, and it definitely colors wether or not I take the plunge and approach any these days.
No, a friend of mine voluntarily went on a afternoon fuckfest with 2 middle aged men. 2 months later she accused a dude she was making out with that he's a pig for suggesting they go to his place after prom.
And she and other girls didn't even see that as weird. The only girl that called her out was more of a hater and said she was selfish.
Women, and their fickle values and behaviours changed how I look at potential romantic relationships. I've seen women go from harpie to perfect guest un seconds just because a stranger entered the room.
Women the emotionally closer you are to a woman, the more she asks of you and the shittier she behaves.
A stranger, will not be accused of rape, a 30 minute hookup in a bathroom will not be considered abusive, because it's in the head o passion. But let that heat disipate, cool down and slow down... and have a huge conversation and the expectations go way up like it's the 1800s.
Yup... Just don't bother, because even if you do everything you can to be nice and show respect, any girl with an agenda and a chip on their shoulder will claim anything as an "Unwanted Advance" and throw you under the bus for 15 mins of fame & attention.
Apparently due process doesn't exist in this country when women decide it's time for another witch hunt.
Doesn't matter cause I don't have female friends, don't get laid, I love single and gave up on relationships so this doesn't really affect me. I wasn't going to approach a woman anyway since I already knew we could have a consensual relationship that eventually she redacted into a victim scenario. I watched my parents go through it so this is nothing new to me, feminism has always done this.
Yes it's taught men that women are to be avoided at all costs. It's sad really.
Woman has sex with man
Woman regrets that sex many years later,
Woman puts it on social media
Man is tried and convicted before any proof is heard, worst of all it's in the court of public opinion not a judicial court.
Man's life is ruined.
Me too is a witch hunt no more no less. It's an exorcise in doing everything they can to destroy men's lives.
Well, in the sense that a feminist writing about it pissed me off to the extent that I was hostile to a female colleague who was flirting with me, thus immediately ending the flirting, yes, it has. I'm fine about victims coming forward, I hate that feminists-for-hire turn it into a war of the sexes. As if lots of the victims weren't male.
Yes. I will never date a feminist because if anything I do can even remotely be construed as bad sex I will lose my job and be publicly shamed should the relationship end.
Just too dang risky. Only conservative girls for this guy it seems...
Strange how MeeToo now makes men act like Vice president Pence: never be alone in a room with a woman. What's next? Segregation of sexes in education and work?
Honestly, a lot of women would feel more safe that way if it were AN OPTION for public transits and schools (where most women have to deal with sexual assault or discrimination; like being a distraction to men). If it was pure segregation with no options... that wouldn't be fair to the men and little boys who also get raped by men.
I know that i'd, personally, feel more safe and comforted knowing that my little sister, mother and I would be safe away from male harassment if we were provided those options.
@sugarchateau I have to agree. But what would even be nicer is if we could live peacefully together, if only people would just take responsibility for their own actions.
Yeah, ideally. lol.
Sorry, did you just say that women being a distraction to men is tantamount to sexual assault and discrimination?
How insane IS your generation?
Okay well, clearly, you haven't been kicked out of class (interrupting your own time for education) for your choice of clothes because an older male teacher sent you to the office for what he reported was too revealing and distracting... when it was just capri shorts. Maybe you didn't have to deal with male adults sexualizing you, but it is still important.
Hmm, so my sex does not give me the right to be moral?
Ever heard of dress code? Just wait till you get to work in a professional environment.
Your generation seems to think that dressing up any way you like is you right. Problem is, you don't know your responsibilities! Your responsibility (regardless of sex, age, etc) is to dress appropriately. Would you wear bikini to church? Would you wear hot pants for a job interview? No? So what is appropriate for education environment? Does your school have a dress code? Do you follow it?
Sent to the office for wearing capri shorts? Are you kidding me?
I never said that you weren't moral... I said maybe you didn't have the same experiences...
Capri shorts do make the dress code and men have been wearing shirts that sexualize females on it with their cartoon tits out but haven't been sent to the office for disrupting anything. How is that fair? I do follow dress code and modestly... I dont even wear a bikini, ever. Capri shorts are 1 inch above the knee... Why are you being so closed-minded? honestly?
Kind of... All its done is make me more picky about who I want to date. I have certain things that I look for. And then the rest of the women I don't necessarily trust... So I mean sure they know and see as little of me as possible. A man works too hard and can get it taken so easily if you are even PRECIEVED to have done something wrong in the sexual department.
In my opinion, most women are confessing the most insignificant negative sexual behavior, only because its gone mainstream now. There are many much more worse cases but they remain hidden from the society because there are lots of other slightly rougher than normal, which, for some reason, are more interesting to the audience. This is seriously getting out of hand. There can’t be so much abuse and rape. It’s not normal.
Yes, I'm not going to approach women in public. I will never comment on their appearance. And I will not touch them. And if a woman wants a kiss on the first date, she better make it obvious. I'm not placing myself in any situation like that.
All good choices. There are generally very few good reasons to comment on women's appearances in public let alone touch them.
The confusing part is when women get upset demanding men take initiative because thet don't anymore... but all of that initiative is catcalling, groping, and benevolent sexism.
Hmm... well, I haven't dealt with this problem in a long time, but I know that if you pay attention to social cues and context, there shouldn't be any confusion. It is, for example, never appropriate to comment on a woman's appearance, however benign, in a boardroom meeting. It is just simply unprofessional. Going up to a girl in a library and saying: "Hey, can I ask what book you're reading" is totally different from "Hey baby girl, looking mighty fine today, care to come up to my apartment"...
My references are to the dating world, not the workplace.
The dating world can include the workplace. A lot of people meet there. I gave you an example on how to approach and not to approach in a different setting.
I will never approach a woman in the workplace. Never. Far too much risk.
To your second example, me walking up to a complete stranger and asking her what book she is reading is creepy and harassing by today's standards.
I don't think you understand why it's inappropriate. Why is it so hard to just say "Hi, how are you?" Why does it have to include a comment on appearance? Again, if you have any understanding of social cues, this shouldn't be a problem.
A simple Hi can be labeled as harassment. Try being stereotyped as a rapist simply because of your gender on a daily basis. It will drastically change how you interact with the opposite sex.
As we've seen in the news recently, men are supposed to know the difference between positive body language that is real, and positive body language that isn't real. I'm just simply not going to approach women in person, instead initiating conversation online, so there is a clear record as to what was said. I don't understand why this is so offensive to women that men take proactive steps to prevent harassment.
I'm not offended, however, you seem to be. I asked a question, you answered, then I answered yours in turn, with which you weren't happy. I'm congratulating you on the fact that you are not going to approach women with inappropriate compliments or touches. Good for you. Don't do it. That *is* harassment. Repeated flirting when someone clearly states no interest is harassment. So is sending random dick pictures or throwing a tantrum when you meet resistance from a woman. I'm giving you some clear guidelines. Take it or leave it, the consequences are in your hands.
Lol nope, all I did was state how I'm backing away from taking initiative, and you've suggested things (walking up to strangers, hitting on people in the worlplace) that simply aren't realistic in the 21st century.
You're wrong.
No, I feel my perspective here is warranted.
Look at the youtube videos of whats considered "catcalling" there a lot of "hey how are you" comments that make the video. Social cues? Men are not mind readers. If a women is looking at me i know there is a big chance she likes me, but at the same time i dont go by cues because i dont play that childs game game. Say what you want and use words if you like someone, you are an adult. Most guys dont want to approach girls on the street and its completely reasonable and he is not wrong for being cautious.
@jessture As I feel mine is.
@livinglikelarry223 Then don't approach. But don't complain about it if not a hoard of women approaches you either, especially not the ones you like.
It's more like women should not be surprised that men don't initiate like it's a sexist culture from the baby boomer era.
I don't think many are. At least not in my age range. Do you see me complaining?
Nobody is complaining sunshine, i am telling you that you shouldn't be giving him all this flack for being cautious. He can't be wrong if you never lived a day in his shoes. You dont understand that feeling and you never will. I am however lucky to find someone who i actually trust and we are great friends though.
@livinglikelarry223 Ah... really. Sunshine. How condescending of you. And you never lived a day in mine.
Yeah the sunshine comment... wtf man.
I've gone out of my way to make sure my actions toward women are respectful, especially in the dating scene. But to be told I'm wrong for being cautious and proactive? Not my problem.
Lol!!! Look my point still stands, you can't tell someone they are wrong just because you dont agree. You dont understand that feeling he has, i do though being a man and all but asker you are not a man which is why you can probably never understand the reason why we are so paranoid to approach. Its basically like, some girls want us to be assertive, then the others dont. Its hard to dish that out and subtle signals get misinterpreted. You are right though, i dont speak on your experiences because i know im not a women..
@livinglikelarry223 I'm not faulting men for being proactive and cautious, but it seems that guys particularly don't want to understand what specific behaviors are inappropriate and why. I will say it again: I'm not complaining about initiative. I am bothered by the lack of willingness to understand *why* something is inappropriate or looking at the backstory that transpired that led to an inappropriate actions. In some cases, a simple Hi can be inappropriate. I have no problem meeting assertive men who have learned how to interact not just with women but people in general. It's also interesting that if men show paranoia, it is warranted, but if a woman says she feels paranoid about going outside and being catcalled, it's because women are overly emotional and have "unstable" moods. Very interesting, indeed.
"I'm not faulting men for being proactive and cautious, but it seems that guys particularly don't want to understand what specific behaviors are inappropriate and why."
Which guys? Guys are not a collective force and every situation isn't the same. A simple look at a girl can have you stigmatized as a potential pervert depending on the women. I understand how to behave, but some women also lack that sense of morality because they are human. This is not a one sided issue. On one hand there are bad guys out there, but calling for a witch hunt does not combat the problem but make it worse.
Also, i didn't try to justify the catcalling situation when it actually turns into harassment. The only thing i addressed was when people got offended off of someone saying hi. People have freedom of speech whether you want to interpret and overthink a situation. It becomes a problem when someone is putting your life in danger of saying something disrespectful.
And it also becomes a problem when people are to scared to say hi because you may read into their tone and think "does he really mean that" think for a second, do you honestly think that this is a healthy environment for men or women to grow up in? Whats next? Will people start barricading their houses?
@livinglikelarry223 I can make the exact same argument: Which women? Women aren't a collective force and every situation isn't the same.
Thats why i said depending on the women. Once people start realizing that situations are bot dualistic then we can start alienating groups of people and actually work on the problem together. This movement is making people feel more uneasy than before though. Its not helping.
Then we can stop alienating groups of people my bad lol.
@jessture Yet they are done all the time. Simply look at this site.
@livinglikelarry223 You know what. Welcome to the world of a woman. We live with this fear of being accosted, of being shamed, of being put down, of being paranoid whether our actions are misunderstood all. the. fucking. time. People *have* already started barricading their houses. White flight is an outgrowth of exactly that. And I disagree. This movement *is* helping. It's obviously weeding out the wheat from the chaff.
So? And who make up the majority of victims to crime? MEN. You made it clear what side you are on. You aren't for the cause, you are just hunting for peoples heads. With that said, i dont care about your self absorbed posts of righteousness. I know i am a good person who has never caused any threat to anyone so everything you told me does not apply to me. I dont feel guilty and i won't let you bring me down with you. Good bye and have a nice day
@livinglikelarry223 Ah, now come the ad hominems. The only person who is self-absorbed here is you. I have been patiently explaining and educating you. It is for you to take it or leave it, but remember that you have to live with the consequences of your actions. And, just to be clear, men are also the main perpetrators of crime.
"Oh men are the main perpetrators of crimes so that means that its morally right to undermine male victims" you didn't educate anything. You just talk a bunch of nothing. You are all talk and no facts.. This time i am muting you.
@livinglikelarry223 Good riddance...
No #METOO is a joke, you can tell it is by the hypocrite celebrities involved in it. I think after the 2016 election people are tired of Hollywood preaching morality.
It's made me want to "screen" women more to make sure they're not these psychos that'll falsely accuse me of rape just because they got in a disagreement with me/I put my hand on their shoulder/whatever.
Women are becoming more and more aware of the legal and social power they have over men. It's important for men these days not to get married, not to cohabitate in common law states, not to share bank accounts, etc.
Well this is a very severe problem in the west, countries outside don't give them the same amount of bias but it's still there, just not as severe at least from what I've seen that's the case
@Johnbadman Well to be fair if anywhere needs advocacy for women's rights, it's the middle east.
That being said, you're right, extreme feminism is mostly a problem in the west. In the USA for instance many businesses are separating men and women because of all the false rape accusations.
The worst part is? #metoo legitimatizes REAL rape victims.
Ya it's basically a bunch of feminists who don't believe in the concept of consent and think any form of sex is rape based. Boys, don't date a feminist, because you will never have the opportunity to be intimate with her like a normal relationship. I'm done with sex shamers, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this natural phenomena..
Consent is the entire point of the movement.
Yeah it has. I'm not saying all these women are lying, but it makes me think just how far are people willing to go to compromise their better judgement for a payday? And, how could this trickle down to someone like me?