Do you believe in the gender pay gap?

What I find frustrating about the gender pay gap and the debate around it is that it should be a FACT whether women earn less than men or not. Either they DO earn so much less than men that it's a gender equality issue or they DON'T, at least significantly, earn less than men.

But I think, from the information I read, the reality is that women are still earning less than men, even after taking maternity leave and differences in job titles and industries into account. I also read that women don't negotiate salaries as well as men do. And I am in support of doing something to make pay between genders fair
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Before you get rude and call me a SJW with blue hair, I don't WANT there to be a gender pay gap and will be happy if that is the case. I'm doing some research and still coming up with conflicting sources.

The first thing listed when I google "gender pay gap" is : The Gender Pay Gap is 17.9% Australian Women's Empowerment‎ www.security4women.org.au/economic/wellbeing

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Most Helpful Guys

  • If I'm not mistaken since many employers are required to pay for the insurance of their employees there are certain additional charges for female employees that may or may not be taken out of their pay check. So it's not so much that women are paid less for the same work but that they have greater expenses.

    Maternity leave and such can cost a lot for an employer. In that sense if a pay check is smaller it may be due to that sort of extra benefit that men don't have. Men don't generally get maternity leave when their wife or parter has a baby but women do and quite frankly... that still has to be paid for.

    So again... not lower pay so much as higher cost.

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    • have you heard of the 'pink tax' phenomenon? it's about products targeted at women costing more than products targeted at men. a pack of 4 pink razors costing $6 when a pack of 4 non-pink razors cost $4.50 for example.

      I also think it's unfair on men that they don't really get paternal leave so they can spend time with their children. In Finland men are encouraged to take paternity leave and I think it should happen everywhere

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    • Well when I'm shopping and i see something that's targeted at men even though it's just shampoo, I immediately think "that's not for me" and only recently I started questioning and I realized "it's just hair, gender doesn't have a bearing on hair types that requires catering to" but a lot of people always fall for advertising. just like a lot of people see berry-flavored processed snack foods "but there's a bunch of real berries on the packaging so it must be a healthy alternative", but it isn't. lots and lots of people fall for it.

      It's all psychological trickery that work on people that businesses purposefully use. women aren't being forced, they're being tricked

    • They are letting themselves be tricked. The choice is always there. It's not as though they can't help it. They make a choice to buy what they buy. It's not sexist or prejudiced. It's making a profit by taking advantage of psychology and the same thing happens to men in other ways.

  • It's not a "fact" because there is no way to define or measure it. It's a constant state of comparing apples to oranges. As an example, you hear things like "equal pay for equal work". But there is no such thing as equal work. No two people do equal work. Apples and oranges.

    No two people have equal value either. Talk to just about any manager, and the actual work performance is only one criteria, and probably not even the most important. Most things they are concerned about are not easily defined or measured. This is the main reason for job interviews. It's not about your experience, it's about you as a person. You can't measure that. It's totally subjective.

    You can never say that one person and another person have equal value. So it's impossible to talk about pay scale as if person A should get the same/higher/lower pay as person B.

    In reality, with a few exceptions, pay is about how well you sell yourself, and how well you negotiate. You could make a valid argument that you are worth what you are able to get. There is so much talk about pay gaps for women, but two men can be sitting side by side, doing similar work, with one making triple what the other makes.

    Any time you see numbers on these things, it's mostly nonsense. It's based on some arbitrary variables and definitions, which can never reflect the reality of how it works.

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    • True. Like they say "There is no gender pay gap" and then they say "More women work in minimum wage jobs than men"... so there is a pay gap. They contradict themselves. Have you heard of the adjusted vs the unadjusted pay gap? I read it on wikipedia. Adjusted basically takes every income of every woman and compare to every income of every man and man make more money therefore there is a pay gap. ajusted takes into account part time work, taking time off to have kids, qualifications, rank, professions blah blah blah and then the pay gap is smaller but still there

Most Helpful Girls

  • The gap only exists because a lot of women select jobs which are traditionally lower paid than ones a lot of men select.

    I'm an engineer and the best I can tell, based on salary surveys I've seen, I'm getting paid as good as, if not better than a lot of guys in my field.

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    • Yeah in STEM as a woman you will get a ton of incentivisation to come into the field.

    • @Caaarl a good reason to be in the field. I love my job and I get paid better than I ever imagined I would be at my age.

    • STEM is great if you have the mental capability and the skills for it. You make very good money.

  • While I believe there is a gap I don’t think it’s unfounded or discriminatory against women. When chosen profession, lifestyle factors (like working hours, maternity leave and career breaks for having children) and generic personality attributes are removed from the equation there is very little gap. For it to be called a discrimination gap the comparison between men and women needs to be like for like, apples with apples yet when two people in an industry standard job with the same education, experience and the same hours worked are put side by side there is no/very little discernible gap.
    Why should women be paid more JUST for being women to cater for the fact they want to take off to have children? Why should they be paid more for a pink collar career they chose, such as nursing, teaching or social work instead of something that is well known to pay far better like STEM, industrial work like mining or trade and labour? It’s a choice, and one women are equally free to make when entering the career playing field

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    • www.wgea.gov.au/.../what-gender-pay-gap
      Causes of the gender pay gap
      The gender pay gap is influenced by a number of factors, including:
      -discrimination and bias in hiring and pay decisions
      -women and men working in different industries and different jobs, with female-dominated industries and jobs attracting lower wages
      -women’s disproportionate share of unpaid caring and domestic work
      -lack of workplace flexibility to accommodate caring and other responsibilities, especially in senior roles
      -women’s greater time out of the workforce impacting career progression and opportunities.

      The gender pay gap starts from the time women enter the workforce. The pay gap, together with time out of the workforce for caring reasons and women’s higher likelihood of part-time work, impacts on their lifetime economic security.

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    • @Wonderer89 that's a shame.

    • Even after all those factors have been accounted for one exists.

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What Guys Said 163

  • in america it exists but for good reason that are not due to societal sexism but inconveniences of biological inequality

    in some countries it does legitimately exist due to sexism... but not in america

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    • What do you mean biological inequality? Men and women have differences in traits which make them really good at different tasks. If everyone was driven to make money at work, who would take care of children and raise them to be good people? Who would take care of homes, others, and keep things running from behind the scenes? Sure, guys can have the titles and big money jobs, but if that's what everyone wanted, we couldn't have a stable society that supported all levels of life.

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    • @SoundProtocol ok i guess i was confused when you said "But you need to say why the wage gap exists, one line of thought creates another"

    • I can see why, I could have phrased it better. Appologies

  • It probably depends on where you're looking, but as far as I can tell in America there is one, but it's not due to discrimination.

    I'll attempt to clarify. It is true that if you take the sum total of all men's wealth, and all women's wealth without accounting for anything men own about 3/4s of the wealth in the US. Their are however many problems with describing wealth inequality in this way. One obvious one is that it does not account for occupation. What jobs are men taking? What jobs are women taking? What you typically find is that women are less likely to go into higher paying jobs. This is most of the problem. Secondly, while it may be true that as a total men own more wealth, but if you remove the top 1% of earners you tend to find that men are actually making less money than women. This indicates that the highest earners in America are typically men, but at the same time we know that the vast majority of homeless persons are also men.

    I could try to get into a few more issues, but think I'll leave it to those two for now to facilitate an easier response if you wish to discuss them. www.dol.gov/.../...t-lowest-paying-occupations.htm is a good place to start. It shows the salary of professions by gender.

    If you think an employer is discriminating against you and paying you less than your male equivalent in America then you should contact the authorities because that is illegal here.

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  • See, a lot of issues arise.

    Fact: Poorer places have very few cases of babies being born with severe mental and physical handicaps. (That must mean their medical services and healthcare is much more superior to the US!) No... it means they usually have less issues with abortion, and different views on "bigger" handicaps.

    Many statistics can be manipulated for either side.

    So a "Fact" like a pay gap... if anyone even voices any doubt or caution usually tends to get shot down, called all kinds of names, etc.

    There may be a wage gap... but there are many possibilities for why... Including position of the job, etc. Like "STEM jobs weren't ever offered in the 50's! Damn misogynists, who never offered such jobs to girls!" - My mom grew up in the 1950's... and four or five teachers kept trying to get her to look at STEM careers (She was pretty much a straight A student) - both male and female teachers offered it. There were probably more, but she's probably forgotten (she admits). She didn't want it. Yes, there were those in the "boys club" mentality (still are)... but its becoming rarer (luckily)... there's still elitism in a lot of ways, and there always will be.

    Do they want to raise children? Do they get more time off for a sick leave? Do they WANT those positions? Do they have family? Are they newer in the field? Does medical insurance cost more for them (companies paying more for various things)? Did they ASK or demand it? There are a lot of variables that give me a tiny amount of pause about just believing every statistic and study I hear about...

    Women should be paid if they're working the same hours at the same exact position, with the same education, with the same family type, etc. I think MEN should have better sick or maternity leave opportunities as well. But I'm cautious about WHY certain things happen, and if there are circumstances that give it somewhat more valid reasons... That way, if there IS a problem, we can figure out ways to fix it.




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  • No, I absolutely reject it and find it idiotic.

    Many jobs the pay is set and whoever takes the position gets paid the same.

    It depends on what you do for a living. Men and women don't pursue the same work across the board. More men than women are interested in and pursue higher paying fields.

    All oil rig workers are men, plumbers are men, engineers are men, scientists are men, more doctors are men, more men are wiling to work 80 hours a week and spend their lives devoted to a goal or to a company, more men start businesses... etc.

    There are women that do this too, especially in medicine (although I've never heard of any lady plumbers) but the numbers of men vs. women are much lower. Women usually aren't interested in the same things.

    A clinical psychologist revealed some results of genders studies and it came back that overall more men are interested in working with THINGS and more women are interested in working with PEOPLE.

    You can't have a world where more doctors are men and more women are nurses and then compare their salaries and claim victimhood when men's average salary is higher than women's.

    You can't just look at macro pay levels and than claim there is some conspiracy to pay men more.

    This entire thing is just BS.

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  • Given that there is no way to gauge exactly how much anyone is paid for work, how COULD there be a fact around something like this?

    Are there gaps? Yes. Do women earn, in total, less than men? Yes.

    But that's a VERy misleading thing to measure. Women also average shorter careers, so if they earned the same total amount of money, or even close, it would mean that women were paid WAY more for the same work done.

    So if you measure by "total pay", women do earn less almost everywhere. If you measure by "pay for work done" women often earn more. If you look at total pay while including things like education as pay, women earn far more for the same effort.

    And the REAL guide that matters is "work for negotiated rate" and that can't be measured. So ANY guide is going to be misleading because pay is based on ability to negotiate and that ability is measured by the rate one is paid and in a sense guarantees that pay is always fair.

    So what you can take away from this is ANYONE telling you that they believe taht there is a "fact" about the pay gap has to be lying. Because it's impossible to correctly measure.

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  • Their is no gender pay gap, if their is its less then a percent difference i. e. completely negligible. Every part of it we can see as being about the choices men and women make from the career choices (out of the top five highest paid career four of them are dominated by men, out of the four lowest paid careers four of them are dominated by women), to reducing work hours (women on average work less then men, this is particularly the case when they get married and have kids, men on the other hand work more hours when they are married which is why according to data single women out earn single men but married men out earn every one). Their is no gender pay gap at all and in fact even the US government data shows that their is no gap in wages (which is illegal and any business doing this would have been sued immediately for it not to mention that if businesses could save 33% just by hiring women then their would be no men getting hired). https://youtu.be/Tv0KbQT1dvc
    www.cbsnews.com/.../
    time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/
    www.forbes.com/.../#554953742596
    fee.org/.../
    https://youtu.be/1oqyrflOQFc
    The one to two percent that is unaccounted for could be due to women not being as aggressive when asking for raises:
    www.inc.com/.../...-negotiate-starting-salary.html

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  • It absolutely does exist in the United States (this is well documented), but maybe not because of sexism. The jury is still out on that one.

    The thing that gets me is that people often claim it's due to reasons we know aren't the case. There are even major news outlet articles on the issue (albeit largely Conservative).

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  • This post is awesome thanks to the women that replied to this nonsense. I have a woman that works for me in the office she see what the men make and said she deserves to make what they make at entry level because she’s been there 6 years I told her to get a hard hat and a shovel. Also she needs to be available for call out 24-7 and be able to work 100hrs a week if needed. I said let me know so I can hire another girl to take her place. Haven’t heard anything since

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    • need to be clear. are you calling my views stated below my question nonsense?

    • Yes actually there would be a lot less easy jobs for women to sit and play on their phones if there was no push from democracies to hire more women. Women in revenue producing jobs like healthcare, science, software development, real estate etc. Are paid handsomely because they are extremely valuable to the business. But answering a phone and filling out time cards is not valuable so we can pay them low. Now if you are hot and can work at hooters or be a model or porn then you also bring in revenue.

  • Mmm, the Central Bureau of Statistics in the Netherlands argues there is a pay gap of like 6%(depends on field and age though) even when factors as hours, experience and many other factors have been compensated for.

    So the CBS argues it exists, so I prefer to adopt it and argue there is indeed a pay gap.

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    • how come so many people don't think it exists though?

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    • so basically people misconstrue and generalize and don't explain their views well. that's why we won't get it the bottom of it

    • There are also always people who subscribe to different doctrines and ideologies and therefore interpret causes in other ways

  • When you hire someone, you consciously or subconsciously make decisions about their value based on many factors. Gender should rationally be one of them because it's a fact that there are differences between men and women when it comes to the workplace.

    Women are more likely to be absent from work more often than men. Women are more likely to be the primary caregivers for children than men. Women are more likely to place their families ahead of their career ambitions. These are all indisputable facts and there is a biological component in these facts that cannot be wished away. That is not to say that these traits are "bad." It's not a value judgement, it's merely a statement of fact that is relevant to the worth of an employee.

    If an employee is more likely to be absent, they are worth less to an employer, if they are more likely to leave their job after a company has invested significantly in their training and grooming, they are worth less. If an employee has less drive and ambition on the job because they put their home life over their career, they have less value to an employer. The *expected* value of a women is diminished by these factors.

    Of course everyone is an individual. Not all women will be absent from their work more often or less dedicated to the job or more likely to leave. But as with every analysis that involves variables the value of which cannot currently be known you must make certain assumptions about them in order to perform a rational assessment of future value. To not factor in these expectations about women would be foolish because it ignores reality. You must add some recognition of the additional risk hiring a women poses into your compensation model and discount their pay accordingly. Anything else may be politically correct, but is not rational from a valuation point of view.

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  • There is a pay gap, I disagree with the reasons - and it has been debunked countless times. The reason for the pay gap isn't down to discrimination or pay for the same work. The gap is in overall earnings.

    Those who look at it and assume that it's down to sexism either lie, or they don't take into consideration hours worked or the kinds of jobs men and women gravitate towards which are the main factors. Men tend to gravitate towards higher paying jobs that require more hours - dirty work, dangerous work, high stress work. Women tend to gravitate towards lower paying jobs that offer more comfort and less risk.

    I remember a while ago there was a big thing with the council workers here in the UK. The dispute was between garbage collectors and indoor cleaners. The jobs for the council apparently have levels assigned to them, and these jobs were of the same level. But the garbage collectors got paid more. This makes sense right? They're working outside all weathers whether it's sunny or pissing it down with rain, they have to work quickly with heavy bins, and there's a high risk of injury in that job due to traffic and things that might be in loose garbage bags like broken glass, needles, even animals rooting through them. This meant that most of them tend to be men, with only very few women. The cleaners - mostly women - indoors all the time, sweeping, mopping up, wiping up, washing clothes, easy comfortable work. As expected.

    The feminists then said that the reason the garbage collectors got paid more was because they were men and the cleaners were women. This is how dishonest they are and this is how they frame it to convince people that this is a sexism issue. The female garbage collectors get paid the same as the men - more than the cleaners - not because of gender but because of the job worked.

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  • Being a primary caregiver for children becomes your career, not your work career. If you are going for the top 1% or maybe even top 10% paying jobs in the country, it is very hard to be a parent. Not impossible, but hard. My wife left a demanding good paying full time job to raise our children, while I stayed in the work grinder at a demanding high paying full time job. She re-entered the work force about 6 years later part time, 10 years later full time. The new work (healthcare) was completely unrelated to her old job (retail buying merchandiser). A job role should clearly communicate work expectations and pay should be the same male/female. If the job is a “grinder” (overtime, weekend, no time for family or children), then it should communicate that expectation. I have a friend who is a VP at a travel company, and his career progression was twice as slow as his peers because he raised two children as a single dad. He had to leave at 5:30pm every day to get his kids. It would be nice if we could have better employment laws in this country, but this is America, corporations run things and are not kind to parents or children.

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  • Well there's really nothing to "believe in;" it's like asking if you BELIEVE the Earth is round or not. Yes, the gender pay gap exists, it's just a complex matter rather than a simple one of "GARRRR BLAME THE PATRIARCHY" or whatever.

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    • I hate it when people treat me like I'm the "blame the patriarchy" type. I'm just trying to get down to the bottom of it and if I don't say "the gap is a myth" they label me as a stupid biased feminist

      I didn't like the way I phrased the question either. too late now

    • I hear you.

  • There is a proof able difference between the pay of men and women as a whole when you look across an entire industry. Reasons for that include but are not limited to, men being willing to work longer (Full time instead of part time), men are willing to do heavier work that pays well (Insane amount of hours or heavy physical activity), men are less agreeable so they can negotiate better pay.

    What does not exist is an actual unequal treatment which the pay gap promoters suggest exists. It either comes down to women not asking enough during the hiring process or just looking at the wrong statistics entirely. If you look at a department you will likely find that the people are all paid in highly varying degrees and it doesn't depend on gender but the experience and willingness to work for the amount agree'd upon.

    I am a prime example of that, when i originally started working i didn't understand my value in the market so i signed up for waay to less. Eventually when i found out that new inexperienced employee's got 400 euro's per month (4800 euro's per year) more then me i demanded higher pay and received it successfully.

    So if you want to resolve the actual issue there is a few things you need to do, first of all don't believe these anti-men groups demanding equal pay while the women does less work. Its not fair if the men and the women get paid the same while the women works less hours just because she is a women and might have a family to take care off. What be done instead is the encouragement that employee's are hired based on relevant criteria for the job alone and may not be judged on any irrelevant factor (It already works this way, we got anti-discrimination laws).

    Then if you want to help women get better pay its not about bringing the men down to your level trough artificial limits and boundaries but to bring the women up trough some job application training where she is thought how much she should be getting and how she can negotiate higher pay.

    With these things you would create a fair system and help the women who are falling behind, without hurting the innocent men who just want to do there job.

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  • If there is or not depends a lot on how you define things on what exactly you mean when you say gender pay gap
    It also depends where we are talking
    If we are talking equal pay for equal work then in most cases no...
    But even this is a little tricky because it is mostly no when we are talking jobs that are directly equal two waiters will generally be paid the same if one is a man and the other is a woman
    But when we are looking at the more individualized job positions which are salaried it is a lot more obfuscated
    You can in many cases not directly compare two positions and even those that you can salaries are negotiated individually so in some certain sense if the women are paid less it is because they have failed to sell their worth to the boss as well as their counterparts
    Is this then a systematic problem? Maybe it is maybe it isn't
    Are they getting paid less because they bring less value? Or because they are not as good at negotiating? Or because they are perceived as less valuable due to their gender?
    Distinguishing between those are difficult so there is little clear answers available
    Now what is often done by those championing that there is a gender pay gap they are lumping professions and looking at life time earnings
    Which is a very skewed way of doing it and as a result it shows a big gap
    The gap though to a large part comes from women taking the maternity leave staying home with the kids not working as much overtime not building up ad much seniority and advance their careers slower because of the children related time outs
    In that manner of speaking the pay gap stems from choices
    However as a society we want women to have children we should be encouraging it so we should find ways for it to not have such a financial impact
    This however is hampered by the gender pay gap discussion because it takes those the results and present it as due to not choices but a biased system
    It is looking at the symptom and not the cause
    In the end that is much what it comes down to with this issue the gender pay gap as it is presented by most of its proponents is a fiction
    But that fiction is based on something real and as long as we are arguing over the fiction we are ignoring the real issues that are actually the cause

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  • We are all underpaid. It feels like a gap because you work hard but still struggle. We all do. Business and government policy has operated since the Reagan Era to suppress wage growth. Combined with regressive tax policies the result is the massive insecurity experienced by all except the top 9%. That's what America gets for supporting the Republican Party. (Democrats are bad too, just not as blatant and shameless).

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  • Never met a woman in my life who was paid less than her male coworkers. Logic will tell you that that a gender pay gap is probably not as common that most Feminist would like you to believe. Think of yourself as a business owner. Your number one goal is to make a profit. If you can save 17.9% on your wage bill which will result in larger profits, won't you only hire women?

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  • The amount of money you make should be in line with how much you bring in, and how many responsibilities you hold. For example, a female manager deserves more money than a male supervisor, because she has to manage the whole store, while the supervisor has to manage only his people within his department. The people within the department should be paid depending on how many responsibilities they hold, and how much they're capable of. for example, a 28 year old male worker who has spent time in the department, has a forklift liscense, knows how to do orders, and also can lift a 70 pound pallet over his head deserves more money than a 18 year old girl who only takes orders from the supervisor (meaning when he's not around, she slacks off.) same would go for a 28 year old female with the seniority and qualifications that an 18 year old male doesn't have.

    Also, consider that women get pregnant (meaning maternity leave) women get periods, which means they cannot work, meaning others have to do their job while they are on leave, making them somewhat "unreliable" to a business.

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  • It's hard to say for sure because I am a male and haven't looked at an equivalent female's pay, but for some reason I don't doubt it exists in the slightest bit and it needs to be taken care of.

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  • The Pay Gab is a fact, and documented. and Women are payed less on average. By a lot. You will get the deniers that will through up some magical numbers and move cups around like a confidence game, but in the end.. there is a gender gap and its amazing how many people refuse to see it, INCLUDING woman..

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What Girls Said 44

  • There really is no valid argument to be made that it isn't there. It's one of the most well documented and understood phenomena in economics. Only complete dipshits argue it doesn't exist at all.

    The only arguments one can really make are that it's there because of natural reasons having nothing to do with sexism. I'm not convinced, but I might even bother to discuss points with someone who is trying to make valid ones.

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    • The problem lies in how people perceive the gap not whether it exists. Many hear pay gap and immediately assume all men get paid more than all women in every job when it's women earning less than men across different career paths, hours worked and experience.

      The jobs that are female dominated are generally more lower paid roles like nursing, teachers where men dominate the highest paid roles like engineering. Closing the gap is about encouraging women to into more STEM fields but despite females leading in college graduates and universities even going out of their way to help, women don't generally seem to be interested in these fields suggesting that it may indeed be biological!

      Sources:
      web. standford. edu/group/scspi/cgi-bin/fact6. php

      www.theguardian.com/.../university-gender-gap-at-record-high-as-30000-more-women-accepted

      www.weforum.org/.../

  • The gender pay gap was debunked several times and you'll have to be a serious idiot to still believe it...

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    • by who was it debunked? can you show me some reputable sources.

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    • @tartaarsaus why should i put my time and effort i to explaining/linking something that has already been talked about a hundred times? Its everywhere. Itd be different if it were a topic that isn't to regularly discussed

    • @BotMan1

      "Why should I put my time and effort i to explaining/linking something that has already been talked about a hundred times?"

      Because that is how discussions and evidence works.

      If you want to be remotely convincing in your point, you have got to be able to prove it.

      Otherwise it's nothing more than a mere statement without anything backing it up, and therefore irrelevant.

      So why should you link it, or at least mention your source? To actually make a remotely decent argument. Otherwise it's just futile

  • Yes, I do. I also think it’s fair. Women take more vacation time, more sick days, and on average put in less hours, as well as maternity leave and etc. A man isn’t going to take maternity leave, therefore he’s more dependable and worth more.

    However, if a man and woman are putting in exactly the same hours, same vacation days and same work, they should be paid the same, no questions asked.

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    • In Finland, paternal leave is encouraged but in America it isn't, contributing the the wage gap. so in that sense, I don't think it's fair.

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    • there are countries were the birth rate is too low. Japan for example. women who get pregnant in japan are treated like shit by the places they work in.

      America is overpopulated at the moment so I hope you support abortions at the very least

    • I've always been pro-choice. Its a womans body, her choice. Not the government, or a man's.

  • In some countries it’s a thing. The gender pay gap is a very unique phenomenon in the US and other “first world” countries. Because we all know that it’s NOT that women are paid less for the same job. Women are just more into part-time or lower ranked jobs. But the real question of the century that no one thinks about and analyzes is: WHY do women choose these jobs more? Why do they prefer to stay at home?

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    • "But the real question of the century that no one thinks about and analyzes is: WHY do women choose these jobs more? Why do they prefer to stay at home?"

      Actually, there's been quite a bit of research about this, and again and again, women prioritize stability (set hours, minimal travel, etc.), convenience (minimal commute), and time off, while men are more willing to work longer hours, to travel for work, to take jobs with longer commutes or more difficult situations, etc. if they pay better.

      Women generally want to come home and sleep in their own bed every night. Men would rather earn more. But those are choices, not discrimination, as evidenced by the fact that there are exceptions both ways - women who are willing to work late hours and travel to earn more, and men who give up higher pay for more stability. But they're exceptions to the choices made by the majority.

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    • I understand what you’re saying. But we can’t leave it just like that. We can’t just say “oh it’s just the way it is.” We have to understand why this happens. Why do women prefer that more than men? Why are men more inclined to work long hours? Those are things most people don’t take into account and just leave it at “Oh, it’s because women just prefer something different.” But why? That is what people need to consider more.

    • Women and men grow up in different psychological environments. I mean they do grow up in the same physical environment but they’re taught different things, they have different toys, different socialization strategies etc. One of the things that boys do (that girls don’t) is work more from a young age. For example, when someone has to help the mom with the groceries, the dad tells the boy to go and help her. The dad tells the boy to get out of the car at the gas station and pay for the gas. The boy is the one who helps with moving process. Etc. Girls are usually told to relax and just “stay there”. Those are tiny aspects that turn out to be a huge influence on someone’s way of thinking

  • If 2 people start on the same day doing the same job than they should get the same pay and raises. Unfortunately, it only is that way in city, state, and federal jobs. Private sector is a different dance.

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    • no, whoever puts in the most effort and has more hours and goes above and beyond is the person who gets paid more no matter if they have the same job and studies show that usually males are the ones to do more when it comes to jobs and I know it's a fact based on experience. I just think women should step up to the plate for once.

    • @MelaninDoll I don't know what kind of job you are talking about. That only happens in sales jobs or big business. You notice in state jobs, like at a DMV office, no one seems to put much effort in at going above or beyond. AT construction jobs, like a city road repair crew, I see most of them sitting around and eating donuts than working to open the road up.

    • where I live that's how it happens with most jobs, and I honestly get so jealous when I see them eating like donuts and shit, I WANT SOME TOO!

  • It's not fair that men get paid more than women, but what we have to remember is that some/most men have more dangerous jobs than we do which would require more pay in my opinion. As long as I can live decently with the amount my job gives, then I'm not bothered tbh. Would be nice to have equal pay, but.. meh. Not fussed long as it pays the bills and gives me plenty to treat myself with.

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    • Men and women tend to get paid the same for the same work, the overall gap exists because men work more hours and harder jobs.

  • Just based on where i live, a lot of guys go to coal mines and destroy their bodies for some pretty good money. From what I've seen guys tend to take more hazardous risks and works crazy long hours. They die in their 50s because of it, but at least they got to make more money.

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  • Yes And it's not only about salary gap it's about long term contracts. Many of my friends are struggling to get a long term contract but even when they worked for the place over 2 or 3 years they still get 6 months contract and get fired very easily.

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  • It is properbly because men have a long history of negotiating pay and men ruled to the working world first. Women have had limited work opportunities and rights for thousands of years. It is much better today. Women have had to fight their way into the work force, management and decisionmaking. A hundred years ago women fought for the right to vote. The second ww forced sociaties to accept woman in factories. In this age the fight is for the pay gap and positions in management.

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  • You get paid by how you work. If you're a crappy worker, don't get mad when everyone around you gets that.10 raise.

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  • There is cited evidence about income inequality between sexes and races. They are very real situations that are consistently faced by a number of individuals.

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  • I've seen my colleagues salaries, there's no thing as the gender pay gap. If there would be that's would be illegal.

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  • The man should make more. how else will he provide for his family

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    • what about in families where there is no man? and why can't the woman be the breadwinner?

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    • what the fuck, YOU are telling ME I'm naive. lol.

      by the way, I'll will take care of my partner and he will take care of me. we work together, we don't just leave it up to the other person to maintain the roof over our heads

    • Girl you slow and triggered bye😂🤣

  • This is the study that convinced me that there is one: jamanetwork.com/.../2532788

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    • Update after reading other responses: as always when the topic of wage gaps come up, it's disappointing to see that I'm the only person who's made the effort to post a link to an actual study instead of posting their feelings. Sigh.

  • According to Broadly women do get a big hike in wages when they hit the age 35 but men already hit that hike before that age. So I do see why women taking time off for babies, going in professions that don't pay that well, nowadays most professions don't pay well at all in any field. So I believe in it.

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  • Women do generally earn less than men for the same job in the business world, butt it's not really significant, and it's typically not discrimination.

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  • Yes but for good reasons such as maturity leave, less hours worked. What I don't believe is that it has anything to do with us not being paid the same as men.

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  • it depends on what kind of job you're working. in retail or service jobs, everyone makes shit. people tend to get paid more based on experience or sometimes education, rather than gender. but maybe in salaried corporate jobs, there is a gender wage gap. i wouldn't know because i never worked one. i think there's too many factors at work to give a clear answer across all industries

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  • Idrk, people say they do and I dont really have experience working, but I don't see how they could, like if two people had the same job I don't see how it's possible to pay one of them less

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  • Focus your search on social economic studies... I've steered away from other sources because it's never clear how those numbers are quantified. In studies I've read for the U. S., it's been consistently concluded that women make 70% that of men. Women do tend to not negotiate as much for their salaries, this is true, but it's also true when they do they still are paid less than men. It's a very real thing. Its also true that women have more expenses than men month to month on top of being paid less. Another reality is sexist pricing. Products like deodorant for example are essentially made from the same stuff, but the ones marketed for women are priced higher than the ones marketed to men. This is generally the case for items that are not gender specific, but marketed differently to men and women.

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    • What’s stopping you from buying men’s Deodorant?

    • Lol, I wasn't divulging my personal shopping choices... I was attesting to the sexism interlaced in our society when it comes to pricing, expenses, and pay.

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