Why have women always been second-class citizens since the past?


Cook
give birth
Clean up
Have sex with your husband

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Most Helpful Guys

  • Two reasons. Firstly, women were physically much weaker than men. In the past, this was a decisive factor. As a man, I could just force myself upon any woman or make women to things with raw violence and there is little they could do about that. Even more so if I'm in a group of men.

    Secondly, men used to hold pretty much all positions of power. They completely dominated political and clerical power positions but with that also held a lot of social power. Hence, it was impossible for a woman or even multiple women to protest against discrimination or inequality. The "system" (which was controlled by men) would immediately undercut all their efforts and punish them for their "disobedience". In that sense, it was a bit like starting a revolution in North Korea as a regular farmer... where do you even start? And there's actually another parallel between these two: in North Korea, regular people don't get access to the internet or unbiased information. Likewise, finding allies and likeminded people and organizing gatherings was extremely difficult in the past. Partially due to censorship, partially due to the lack of modern communication, technology and fast transport over vast distances.

    This second aspect (the one of power) actually offers a fascinating interpretation for people like me who are intrigued by Karl Marx' theory of Historical Materialism. Now, Historical Materialism is an extremely complex and difficult philosophy but one way it could be broken down is to say that "all change is the result of class struggle". Marx believed that progress in the history of humanity is not so much a result of new technologies or new economic concepts but that it is a consequence of much more fundamental developments on a societal level. In principle, there have always been societies with classes, regardless of the historical period you're looking at. Interestingly, new "chapters" in the development of human civilization always came about by lower classes that had been oppressed for a long time finally uprising, destroying the old system and creating something better by assuming positions of power. In that sense, maybe the current rise of female power in the world isn't a bad thing as some people believe. If we believe Marx, it might in fact be the seed of something better to come.

    By the way: women weren't "always" oppressed. This started very much with human settlement and the beginnings of agriculture. Before that, things like gender roles didn't exist.

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  • Instead of advancing the victim narrative, why not ask, "Why have women always accepted being treated as second-class citizens?"

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Most Helpful Girls

  • Cooking and cleaning should be 50/50 or done by whoever is at home more.

    Men can't give birth so I don't know why that's on the list?

    Men have to have sex with their wives too and women are allowed to say no...

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    • Issue is, not always. In Rome for example, a man could rape his wife and slaves with 0 repercussions as long as she didn't die.

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    • Indeed. Slaves, man and woman, could be raped to death. Wives had to. submit or they could. be raped or severely beaten. Daughters. could be sold to Foster familial alliance. Sons could be. sold up to 3 times.
      The ancient world was hardly a place for women.

    • The only. places I know where that was. better for women, where Scandinavian Nations. The women in some of their holy orders or there healers were not allowed to be touched sexually, and they often could roam freely without too. much fear of being raped, as it was thought the gods would punish the man.

  • i think a big part of this was the influence of religion on many cultures. there have been cultures where women were equal to men, or even women were superior to men (though few, as far as i'm aware), but the spread of religion, particularly christianity, enforced these "gender roles" that people were to conform to, as many countries at the time were pretty much governed by religion. these roles have come to exist as these ideologies were spread and adopted (an example would be missionaries travelling to asia to teach them about their religion, and colonising these countries meant that they were to follow these rules and roles)

    not saying it's just one religion to blame though, many religions and cultures share similar ideologies of men being superior to women, whether due to coincidence or adopting different beliefs into their own.

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What Guys Said 89

  • It's so cool that men had the first class privilege of dying like cattle in the trenches or factories.

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    • That was their societal choice. Men chose to go to war.
      Men chose to limit women to the house.
      If they were so upset, why did it take so long for society to allow women to leave the home and enter the workforce? Because it was "too dangerous for a lady". :/

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    • Women worked in them because men were dying on the front lines

    • Let's agree that both sexes died horrible deaths

  • Because of religion. Before christianity and islam, female nembers of sociaty had mostly the same rights as men. Remember about queens and female rulers before christianity. There was a lot of them. With creation of christianity and islam things changed, specially when jewish priests took down the roman empire and installed christianity. That was the time when womens lost their voice for centuries and were considered second class citizens. Christianity and islam are fascistic religions created by pedophiles and heavy sociopaths and they wrote a book in which they stated what is the womens role in life and they called the book bible and kuran. You also need to understand that there is 10% psychopaths in the world, 50% of idiots or fanatics that need psychopats to tell them what to do with their life and in return they feed psychopats with energy for their overgrown ego, and last 40% are humans.

    And that is why the change is so slow, because humans need to convert idiots into becoming a humans in order to get major support for the causes like equalty.

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    • Thats true in some cases, but not all... Early japan for example had female empresses, women could own land and have multiple partners. They believed in gods and spirits and had equality, for a time they were even considered a matriarchcal society. The patriarchy started after Buddhism, and Confucianism came to the archipelago.

  • They haven't been. By your rational men have always been second class citizens not women. We where "forced" to work in fields and factories a 100 hours a week only to give all that we have over to our wives, we where expected to fight and die so that she could live, we had to build her a house, we had to hunt and/or buy the food that she ate, the clothes she wore, the jewelry she wore, we had to be forcibly conscripted into the military to protect other women we where not even in a relationship with (as women never had to go into military service but men had no choice so they would fight and die while women stayed at home perfectly safe), we had to do pretty much everything while all women had to do was cook, because we where to busy slaving away in the fields and factories, clean because again we where to busy slaving away in the fields and factories or dying in violent combat in order to keep her safe, and the only bit of thanks we got for it was her having sex with us (the grand irony being that women now don't even give men that yet still claim that they are the ones with the raw end of the deal instead of men). Also the fact is that women could go out and work but they chose not to (as they choose not to now (men work longer hours then women and generally take on much harder jobs or more dangerous jobs in order to make money so they can then give that money to their wives (as women account for 80% of domestic spending (US) and 70% of spending globally despite only generating about 40% of domestic earnings). So yeah, that was never a thing, women have had it easy and still have it easy because they choose who reproduces and who doesn't so men have to sacrifice more to have the chance to reproduce and by extension women get to effectively coast through life, comparative to men.

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    • The problem is that women had no choice. They were forcefully into that situation wether they liked it or not, women could not even be the heir if their father was some sort of noble leader, in Switzerlandwomen were not allowed to vote in elections until 1971, women were told that they could not work because they wouldn't be able to bear it, and be overstrained with 30 and their beauty would seize, they were thought to be unable to drive a car, and people actually laughed at the thought of a woman doing politics. At some points in history women have even been treated as objects that were given to men as a reward.

      Men have always decided over womens destinies and while they could do what they wanted women had to rely on men allowing them to. Men being the workers is not an excuse because it was the men who did not allow women to work.

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    • @-Asca- 2. Some random person, in each society in the world, decided arbitrarily that we would have certain roles and every one, arbitrarily, agreed and passed these arbitrary assigned rules down through out all of history despite it having no benefit and no one wanting them because "reasons".(least likely scenario)
      3. Males and females are interchangeable and equal but males are morally inferior to women and that is why men forcibly oppressed women even though it was women who raised them, women who chose who mated and who did not (as reproduction puts a greater burden on women and thus she being the one most invested needs the greatest reason to reproduce, especially as the offspring is entirely dependent on her for years and she could easily abandon or kill it if it was forced upon her) and they did this through shear immorality and malice and women allowed it for absolutely no reason what so ever.

    • @-Asca- Or 4. men and women where both equally immoral and both where willing to subjugate the other but men where superior and thus where able to force women into submission (as their is no example in history of equals ever managing to force a submission of the other (otherwise they wouldn't be equal)) and that is why we have the history and roles that we do.
      Out of those which sounds the most logical? In my opinion the one that is backed by both history and science (its biological and culture and social norms extends from that biological root) (possibility one) seems by far the most logical conclusion.

  • You think think cooking, giving birth, cleaning and having sex makes you more of a "second-class citizen" than the privilege of dying in wars and coal mines?

    That "having to act like a proper lady" was more sexist of an abuse than having to be rich and own a company by the age of 25 if you wanted to be allowed in presence of females other than harbor prostitutes?

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  • Women are the physically weaker gender, so naturally the stronger dominates regardless whether or not it is morally correct as a result of democratic reform and enlightenment, women are equal to men in most countries, but do they make decisions which make them seen as less equal? Yes. Equal opportunity does not have equal outcome.

    But in the past, warfare was rampant, an army full of women will get wiped out by an army full of men

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  • since the ancient times, men went out to hunt for food with stones and sticks and provided resources. after civilization started, men have picked up the sword and shield and marched into war to protect the country or invaded other countries as warriors/soldiers. then when there was peace, men went out to work. in the past, women were too physically weak to do those things, and was seen as inferior unlike today.

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  • Women were never second class citizens, a woman completes a man, if she cooks so what? She must be proud to cook for her and family...

    Give birth, that's the most wonderful thing a woman can give to a man

    Clean up, well the house of her man is her house too, she must clean it cause this is where she and her family lives...

    Makes sex to her husband, well they married right? He is her everything and she loves him more than anything, so she wilk surely make love to him...

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  • Why you considered those things bad? and is risking your life in wars is better?

    tvtropes.org/.../WomenAreDelicate

    tvtropes.org/.../MenAreTheExpendableGender

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  • Ah the rich have really done a number on the poor. Convince people your oppressed for not working so we can double the available workforce to exploit. Driving down wages so that most people don't have the choice to do something meaningful with their lives because most people don't have the opportunity to work with something they find gives their life meaning but spend most of their lives working for survival and to fund what they would rather be doing.

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  • That's not second class things that's called taking care... We men cook too and you're saying like women never want sex. Try to grow up from your narrow mentality we men are physically unable to give birth. It's a god gift to women that they can bring a life and soul in this world

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  • I don't see how that makes them a second class citizen.
    Men had to provide for the women, kids, protect them (even die in the process sometimes), and have sex with his fat lazy wife that thought giving birth a couple times somehow was worth more than working for forty years.

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  • I don't get it. .. how is that second class?

    Guys cool as well... There are great chefs worldwide
    Give birth? If you think that's a burden to you - use some damn protection 😑 and adopt a baby
    Clean up? You're not bound to... If you want to stay in a dirty place... sure.. none of my concerns
    Have sex with your husband? No one forces you to. Don't do it

    And how is any of it second class?

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  • It's really obvious why what is considered sexist now was necessary in the past. It just made sense to divide the labor in that manner due to physical differences and biological roles. Today women have significantly more control over their biological role.

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  • Feminism is it's own worst enemy. They give themselves second class status. Questions like this are a perfect example.

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  • Very good question because of evolution Human males have become more stronger in physical strength so they dictated the world and the question is why Men become stronger because they have two different chromosomes that trigger genetic variations in men faster

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  • That's only second class by today's perspective. Women always have, and always will rule the planet (that's why the Queen is the most powerful piece in Chess, she can move without the burden of the system that holds her husband). Women control reproduction, and they can get men to do things for them through it.

    Basically, men used to be better at providing women with the things they needed to have a good and emotionally fulfilling life. There's a reason that Feminism took this long to take hold, and it wasn't because of the internet; it's because many women didn't want/think they needed it. Men were making sure that women were being taken care of, and that stopped with the Industrial Revolution. Women in the past realized that it's way better to work at home and raise children than it is to get cooked by a Blacksmith's furnace for 12 hours a day, or get run through with a spear for a king who doesn't give half a shit about you.

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    • Yea that's a nice rosy picture except that in most cultures through most history patriarchy ruled and women were slaves to property owning voting men with more muscle and height than them. Treated like just above cattle in some cultures...

      In chess the queen moves to serve the king. Wo doest do much work if he doesn't have to.

      True a woman could marry into luxury but for most women that was not the case and they were slaves to men who wrote and enforced the laws

    • Eh... Not really... Women were sometimes viewed as a form of currency, but there was always a degree of reverence for who and what she was. You saying that they were seen as a slaves and a cut above cattle is a misrepresentation.

  • Because very few men were considered citizens. Like in the UK women got the right to vote in the next election cycle after men got the right to vote. Same with the United States, once all most all restrictions on male voting was abloshed like the owning land portion of it. The constructional prossess of giving women the right to vote started with the very next senete elections. Most people were second class citizens.

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  • not second class , most likely because it was safer for women to stay home , i still dont like the idea of women getting into military or staying outside at late night , it was a tradition for a woman to clean and cook for her husband , if the husband is working his ass of for 12 straight hours and when he gets home it will be really nice to find the house clean and a delicious meal.

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  • Because only men have that innate hubristic arrogance to think they are superior to women because they are physically stronger or taller. Women on average have much higher empathy, reasoning skills and intelligence. Because they lack those good qualities, I propose, that they sought to push women down to subservience in order to feed their own egos and make themselves feel better.

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  • Maybe in history.
    Now, you don't have to cook. You can buy food that's ready to eat.

    You don't have to give birth.

    You don't have to clean if you don't want to. Pay some else to do it or live in an unclean environment.

    You don't have to have sex with your husband. You don't have to have sex at all. You don't even need to have a husband.

    There.

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  • Well the giving birth thing is really nobody's fault. We can't do that... and if you don't want to have sex with your husband you should get a better one xD

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  • Men cook as well, men also clean up, and men today have husbands!
    Giving birth is a gift, yeah, it hurts, but it's your choice to make a baby so you should expect it!

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  • Cooking and cleaning up are easier than working (jobs that need physical strength) they are better generally at it after all lol, giving birth isn't a choice and having sex is a mutual pleasure so..

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  • That giving birth part isn't something anyone can do anything about. It sort of works that way naturally.

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  • Because power wealth and influence were based on what you could do with your hands... Men pretty much had to do all the hard work in early civilization and thus had all the power, and all the influence over society.

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  • Im pretty sure they haven't ALWAYS been. IIRC, women had a much higher degree of regard and place in society in pre christian Celtic, Greek, and Native American societies. This excludes "spoils of war".

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  • I don't want woman to be second class, they're neither better nor worse than me. I want to feel like equal people in a relationship.
    And of course I want love <3 <3 to be in the air!

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  • Coz they choose to & they were much happier than today's women... Now today's women are miserable & frustrated as shit.. And that's what it likes to be a first class citizen (A man)...
    You wanna be a first class citizens so be it..

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  • Talking like only the men wanna make sex! Hahahaha! Or man gonna give birth!! Cleaning should be 50/50 cook maybe women are better in that! And man work and bring money! Like that is fair!! This is the life everyone has tasks to do?

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  • I got drafted in my country and had to slave away for the same amount of money the government gives to the homeless for free.

    Women are better off than men by the law since at least about 1970.

    Men got sacrificed in wars and fights since the dawn of time.

    The ability to give birth is an awesome gift you got that you ungrateful being just don't know how to appreciate. And it gives women advantages over men.

    Historically men were the ones leading and created laws as they wanted them to be. Women were the heads in regards to household management and made the majority of decisions at home despite ruling under men leading.

    How do you think women got the right to vote, if you think they always were treated as second class?

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    • 1. If they are better off, why are they still fighting fo equality? Why are they still fighting to control their own reproductive health from male Republicans?

      2. Men got sacrificed because they didn't allow women to fight 9/10. They were regulated to the home.

      3. Not even remotely true. In Rome, the man was the head of everything in the home and could sell his children, rape and beat his wife with 0 repercussions.

      4. Women got the right to vote because they had to fight for it.

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    • 2) suing all groups and events for men only. They either let women in or got disbanded. Only the groups with political support survived that, as politicians in high positions protected them.
      At the same time lots of female only groups and events got created.

      When I was in school in senior year, girls got an extra day off to check out schools specialised in stem fields. It would be equal if guys got the day off to check out schools that specified in female dominated fields. That would also be in women's interest, as that would result in less men in stem fields and thus a more equally distribution between the sexes in stem.

    • I keep hearing of it, but as of yet nobody has given me unbiased proof of that happening.

      I completely agree, men should have that same opportunity. Feminism is all about equality between genders.

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What Girls Said 22

  • Why do people immediately assume that doing those things makes you immediately a second class citizen wtf?
    Yeah men who fought in wars, who had to support the whole family, who took full responsibility, who worked their ass off doing dangerous jobs and shit, sounded like they had it much better.

    I view women who must work in order to split the bill as second-class citizens. Like they have no other choice.

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    • I would actually love to see how feminists would survive the old times acting like men. I bet they'd never mention equality anymore.

  • Due to hormones and all, women are inherently more emotional and care more about the details.
    Actually being able to run a house and do a multitude of chores, give birth and raise the children was probably not seen as second class at all until recently, when the workforce started to depend a bit more on studies and brain than merely on brute force.

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  • I love how men keep acting like they did any kind of helpful act, stealing their ancestors’ credit.

    Modern men are too proud about something they didn’t even do.

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    • Ok so then why do modern western women think they're so oppressed?

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    • Your statement makes no sense. And what did your ancestors do exactly? Leach off a man, have a couple of babies and want free shit?

      Its funny because women still act like this. You want equality but I still have to buy you everything. Nope.

    • Yeah I expected angry emotional men to comment on my post. Yay!

  • Well, men used to do mostly the outside work, so women had to take care of the house. Only the current civilisation is that stupid. Today women work 8h jobs just like their husbands, but when they come home some still think it's their job to do the house cores. It doesn't make sense to me. That is slavery.

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  • That’s really a housewife n you didn’t have to have sex with your husband. We did in fact stay home while guys did all the work I don't know about you but that doesn’t seem like second class to me

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  • Read the basics from every religious sect. Women have been second class since forever.
    It honestly disgusts me.
    Sadly I think it’s biology why they treat us that way.

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    • Especially in abrahamic faiths. Take Christianity for example, where a man can sell his raped daughter to her rapist, or sell his daughter as a concubine, or rape little girls who's families were just killed. Women have always been objectified by that faith and always will be.

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    • And that has to dictate their primary if not only role in life? Women are not broodmares, chained to a life of child rearing and house cleaning.

    • @TsubasaCorrupted As far as any man is concerned, a woman is first someone to make children with, second anything else. Only once he has children or is firmly not into having children, can he look upon a woman as something else being her primary purpose. Men are biologically wired to want to make babies though. This is why we objectify the shit out of women.

  • Religion played a huge role in why women were and still treated as second-class citizens in many parts of the world

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  • Because of the following reasons

    -Religion
    -Fuck up laws

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  • Because men have suppressed them, and if a woman would try to overcome that suppression they would just push her down again.

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    • Back then is when traditional marriages was a thing. Women took care of everything in the house, and men went to work and or to war. That's not being a second class citizen, it's just both genders have two different roles. Now yeah, there were still a lot of gender discrimination back then because it would have been seen as weird to have a women doing a mans job. And yeah, some men looked at women as sex objects but women did the same to men. Six pack, 6 figure job, nice car, blah blah blah. That happened on both sides.

    • Only men were allowed to vote and women weren’t. Wouldn’t exactly call that first class citizen when your opinion doesn’t matter to the government

  • As a transgender woman I learned that strength is magnified with testosterone which is produced in abundance in cis males.
    After I started transitioning most of my testosterone was depleted and replaced by estrogen. This resulted in a very abrupt loss in strength. I can see that many men, especially in the past used this as a sign of superiority- and control. Until the last hundred years or so, women likely couldn't even begin to create a level playing field. There still is a long way to go. Power is often symbolized as a dick but muscles have a lot to do with it, which is why so much abuse exists today.

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  • In America woman can choose who we want to become, we have open options and it's the woman's choose and decision if she wants to be "second class"

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  • Pretty sure religion is the reason

    Also, people were much more traditional back then

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  • Because they are physically weaker and in the olden days being strong was the thing

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    • Testosterone builds muscle. Estrogen doesn't. I don't know any trans woman who has NOT become weaker in transition.

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    • But seriously a lot of women are way way way stronger than they look.

    • And working out builds muscle. Most cis women who have not reached menopause have more testosterone than I do.

  • Because women are physically weaker

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    • You were brainwashed by a religion

    • I’m not religious and neither any of the individuals that have raised me. You’re denying biological and evolutionary facts if you honestly think the females of the human species are naturally as strong as the males.

  • Those things make you a second class citizens

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  • In modern world, men r too do that.

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  • Religion?

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  • Money talks. She doesn't get paid.

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  • So many buty hurt men with issues here! Wtf is wrong with them? Seems clear to me they had no decent female role model. As for the educated and sensible answers, I appreciated a thoughtful read.

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  • because of feminist, if we didn't have feminist this world would have been PERFECT

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  • Because men made the laws and formulated societal norms to fit their own agenda.

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    • As you're saying that! Be like man and don't hide yourself lol! Did you ever seen a man writing anonymously! Here is A small example between men and women!

    • Plenty guys write anonymously

    • But why was it that way?

  • That doesn't happen anymore.

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