Who is to blame for the government shutdown?

  • President Trump
    Vote A
  • Congressional Democrats
    Vote B
  • Both
    Vote C
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Most Helpful Girl

  • Them Dems.
    Look Back, How Whack, On years ago, But Not Long Ago, How they had OPTED for The WALL. xxoo

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    • they opted for walls in certain areas of high drug trafficking. not a 2000 mile wall

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    • @goaded There ya go. Maybe Mexico should give aid to Israel for a while.

    • 3d

      Than to Gag, @madhatters4 xx

Most Helpful Guys

  • one man is demanding something and holding the system hostage until he gets it. the government could be open and negotiations for wall funding could carry on.
    - 800k out of work
    - 250k furloughed
    - 400k working without pay
    - farmers preparing for spring planting cannot get the bailout money
    trump promised due to his trade war hurting farm revenues because USDA is not fully functioning
    - TSA and border security both working with reduced staff... meaning reduced security

    let's not forget trump said repeatedly "I will shutdown the government" unless he got what he want.

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    • Couldn't that be said about the other side as well?

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    • 6d

      @nightdrot Yes, but only when there's an unwillingness to compromise, especially when the voters have indicated they want you to.

    • 6d

      @goaded What the voters say and what they want are not the same things. The country suffers from a severe case of cognitive dissonance.

      They love balanced budgets - now try raising taxes to get one. They hate big government. Now try cutting entitlements.

      They love compromise - and the first one to compromise (and in this case I have to say that Mr. Trump has been the more astute negotiator) will lose the next election. Guaranteed!

      That is part of the hard job of politics. You have to read between the lines.

  • Trump

    Blaming the Dems would require a lot of mental gymnastics considering that Republicans have been refusing to fund the wall since Trump came into office. Democrats are simply continuing what Republicans were already doing for two years.

    The Democratic-led House has produced many appropriation bills to keep the government running while discussions of the wall continue. The problem is that every bill that is produced is either vetoed by Trump or don't even make it to the Senate due to Mitch McConnell's obstructionism.

    Congress don't even need Trump to sign off on a bill to fund the government. They can easily override his veto and end this shutdown, but once Trump's cronies (McConnell) won't let that happen.

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What Girls Said 3

  • Trump said it himself that he would be proud to shut down the government

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  • He literally said he would be proud to shut down the goverment

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  • The spoiled man child in the White House

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What Guys Said 33

  • Isn't it funny? The alleged big brain Trump, hellbent on economic revitalization, taking a policy like this and creating such a spectacle we can't even realize he's been dragging behind him to use as ammo and nothing more. I mean he used his voting-base like meat and pretty much just serves as this icon to bracket everyone further into a singular idea by still doing "big smart businessman" shit while equally gucking shit up and subversively actually NOT doing the things he alludes to doing. It's all lies including his policy, it's all made to be shit on purpose to me. I know there's quite crazy reasons (due to infighting) among such awful rabble but all I can say is; gee what a Republican like the rest he said were fake, surely he's not like the other guyyyyz~

    American politics is full of closed-society bastards that give eachother the wink, even if they're aiming imaginary political guns at one another. I mean have you guys known that Trump and the Clintons were friends and probably still are? There's no conspiracy all I am saying is there's extreme intellectual dishonesty in positions I'd rather not have them be in all across. GOP feels like it's just a "test" to see what the Americans are "thinking now.", all still serving the same exact engine that hasn't been beating right for decades, probably due to all the shit we did to fuck it up to begin with but that's a story for another day.

    Avid Trump supporters certainly can see the "Nah-ah!"s of arguments, opposers COULD see more and more (people actually do have legitimate issues, during the elections it was just a stuttering "H-he does THInG!11 :(" ).. But I think only smart people with a grey morality see the "yeah-huh"s of it all, in all matters surrounding it.

    We send dozens of billions of dollars across multiple countries to further propel wargames and other shit that doesn't even help us.. What if for one day we tried to actually, compassionately save Detroit or, instead of investing in the toppling of third world governments since we wanted a canal through the Panama, free the Mexican peoples of the cartels that literally hold them and their government hostage and have been part of this "drug war" that may or may not be profited off of. Do you guys even know how badly it is for Central America? Nobody likes a worm. I don't like how dumb we've become, in every corner. Good lord that may offend all but I know it resonates at some capacity, I know it does to any and all of you. That's real talk.

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  • The "blame" by the narrowest of margins, lay with the Democrats in Congress - and I say this as no fan of the President and with a certain benign ambivalence about the merits of the wall. The point being that "blame" is related to the power of choice and where the initiative to make a choice resides.

    The President proffered to the Congress in general, and Congressional Democrats in particular, a choice between a government shutdown and the wall. The Democrats chose the former. The choice was theirs and there then must responsibility - or blame - must lie.

    In the American constitutional system, the power of the purse lay entirely in the hands of Congress. Congress authorizes and appropriates money and the President has relatively little wiggle room after that. He basically does what Congress requires.

    Were Congress to agree amongst itself what it wanted, it would pass the necessary legislation and send it to the President. The President could veto it, but then Congress, if it agreed, could override the President's veto. At each step of the way, the institutional initiative lay with the Congress.

    The President basically gave the Congress a choice. Build the wall or shut the government down. The Democrats looked at their options and the context of the debate and made a choice for a shutdown.

    To postulate the reverse is to deprive the President of his ability to advocate his own policy agenda. If the President must take the decisions of Congress as the start and finish of the process, then the presidency is no longer a co-equal branch of the government, but is simply a cipher for the Congress.

    To be sure, the specifics count. The President, as is his regrettable habit, kept changing his mind leaving ambiguity about where he stood. At least until his most strident supporters began to howl, at which point the President bowed to the loudest voices in his base.

    That is why Senate Majority Leader McConnell got burned and basically washed his hands of the whole matter - saying no legislation would be considered that did not have presidential support. This was a sensible response that protected the whole range of his own Members from the moderate Susan Collins to the libertarian Rand Paul to the conservative Ted Cruz.

    This happened against a backdrop where the Senate Minority Leader had just lost an election and on the House side there was a whole parcel of new Democratic Members who - the fact that they had just won a majority notwithstanding - were not sure that they wanted to make Rep. Pelosi the Speaker.

    Those circumstances forced Pelosi in particular to take a more strident position - "walls are immoral" and all of that. She thus boxed herself in and gave herself no negotiating room. In that context, one could see the trains heading for a collision.

    So it is not an unmixed story. A bit of "blame" goes to each side. One was erratic and sent mixed signals and then bowed before the most strident voices. The other reacted to its tenuous circumstances and boxed itself in to appease its most ardent supporters.

    Mistakes and poor judgments all around and all walked absent mindedly into a corner. Still, responsibility - "blame" - must accrue to the side that has the widest options and the most leverage for choice. Given the institutional limitations, the President can propose, but Congress disposes.

    Put another way, the President puts forth ideas and uses the leverage he has to push those ideas forward. The Congress then looks at the array of its options - agree, disagree, vote or not, override a veto or not all in the broader political context - and acts accordingly.

    The institutional initiative, such as it is in context, lay with the Congress and there also, therefore, must be the responsibility and the "blame." However, in this case, "blame" is less a moral category than a chronological assessment. Viewed in that light, all the shouting and hair pulling and finger pointing is disproportionate to its cause.

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  • House democrats hold the purse strings. Their job is to come up with a budget and send it to the White House for a signature. They are failing to do their jobs all the Dems want to do is resist. That is not how government works. They need to do their jobs and stop the resist BS

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    • they did send a budget. trump just wouldn't sign it because it didn't have money for their wall... so according to you they did their jobs.

    • You want to hear what you want to hear. Nothing I would say would change your mind so I won’t try but in my opinion we need a wall. Obama believed that, shummer, Hillary they all talked about a wall now that trump wants it they resist. That’s a worthless government.

    • you said they need to do their job. i explained how they did. i didn't hear what i wanted. i stated facts. if you want to counter the facts feel free but instead you changed the subject. so now on to the next subject

      yes schumer, obama and clinton supported a wall. strategically placed wall units in specific places with high drug trafficking like most democrats and republicans agreed on. not a ubiquitous 2000 mile long wall that clearly not even all republicans (let alone democrats) agree on

  • Depends on how you look at it.

    One man has the power to shut it down and one man has the power to open it up. So he can't be absolved of all fault in this. That said, whether or not he is to be blamed for the majority is contingent upon the reasoning of his actions. Personally, I see him pressing the matter regarding a border wall as justifiable in the face of the state of the nation. The Dems are arguing they can just negotiate with the government being opened up and go on business as usual. The problem is that is literally what has been done for decades across several Presidencies. So what they're really saying is, "Stop, I don't want to. Don't make me face this. Let's kick the can down the road some more". It's a waste of time, nothing will get done and if you give a damn about this issue, then shutting down makes sense. Makes more sense than Obama's government shutdown where they even close national parks. at least this one is around something real.

    Basically, if you don't think the wall is worth it. You'll more likely blame Trump, but some actually blame the Dems as well on this line. If you do think the wall is worth it you will blame the Dems, which is universal among people who agree with the wall. I blame the Dems and the consensus appears to be blaming the Dems aswell. I think any individual that sees the stories of illegal immigrants committing murder on a subconscious level know there's validity to wanting the wall. So when the Dems are saying there is NOTHING wrong whatsoever and acting as if there are NO illegal immigrants committing crime at all they are really just shooting themselves in the foot, because their own voters don't even believe that because it's not remotely true.

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    • "So when the Dems are saying there is NOTHING wrong whatsoever and acting as if there are NO illegal immigrants committing crime "

      the problem is democrats aren't saying this. they've already approved the funding for DHS enforcement at the border and otherwise. they just haven't funded a wall. to suggest the democrats act like there is no issue is utterly fallacious. unless they are funding $4.3 billion in immigration enforcement for shits and giggles

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    • a wall may help but it doesn't mean it should be done. putting lions on the border would probably help too. does it mean it should be done?

      what should be done is whatever is most effective.

      i think people are correct in characterizing the entire matter as a manufactured crisis. land border crossings are down 66%. apprehensions are up year after year. so it is fabrication of the matter to make it seem like impending doom is at hand. the land border has literally become the least traversed path of illegal immigration. SO if he is so concerned with illegal immigration shouldn't the crisis be the primary paths to illegal residency? most of the drugs come in by air and sea. so if he is truly so alarmed by trafficking shouldn't the crisis be the primary methods drugs enter the country?

    • 4d

      @madhatters4 I've been off for about a week or so. Just got back. I asked for specific context. You did not give specific context with quoting of your claim. *shrugs*. Not gonna bother with opinion talk.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5as4eQCFi8

    I mean he said it himself. He is "Proud to shut down the government for border security" so.. there you have it.. Trump even said he would not blame others for it.

    Who is to blame for the government shutdown?

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  • Theos of you who say Trump are ignorant of the facts. In the first budget President Trump approved an over bloated budget because the military had been dismantled and was below that of pre-WW2 levels. He knew that rebuilding the military was job one. But throughout his administration border security and immigration have been a priority, below are some facts. Now we are in the second budget and it’s time to address this serious issue.

    Before I go into what President Trump has done this is what has been done in the past with both parties approving including Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi:
    HR 6061 Secure Fence Act passed - 2006
    "Authorizes the construction of hundreds of miles of additional fencing along our Southern border; Authorizes more vehicle barriers, checkpoints, and lighting to help prevent people from entering our country illegally; Authorizes the Department of Homeland Security to increase the use of advanced technology like cameras, satellites, and unmanned aerial vehicles to reinforce our infrastructure at the border."

    Of the 50billion approved for this only a small portion was spent.

    Border Security and Immigration
    Secured $1.6 billion for border wall construction in the March 2018 omnibus bill.
    Construction of a 14-mile section of border wall began near San Diego.
    Worked to protect American communities from the threat posed by the vile MS-13 gang.
    ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations division arrested 796 MS-13 members and associates in FY 2017, an 83 percent increase from the prior year.
    Justice worked with partners in Central America to secure criminal charges against more than 4,000 MS-13 members.
    Border Patrol agents arrested 228 illegal aliens affiliated with MS-13 in FY 2017.
    Signed the INTERDICT Act into law, enhancing efforts to detect and intercept synthetic opioids.
    DOJ secured its first-ever indictments against Chinese fentanyl manufacturers.
    DOJ launched their Joint Criminal Opioid Darknet Enforcement (J-CODE) team, aimed at disrupting online illicit opioid sales.
    Released an immigration framework that includes the resources required to secure our borders and close legal loopholes, and repeatedly called on Congress to fix our broken immigration laws.
    Authorized the deployment of the National Guard to help secure the border.
    Enhanced vetting of individuals entering the U. S. from countries that don’t meet security standards, helping to ensure individuals who pose a threat to our country are identified before they enter.
    These procedures were upheld in a June 2018 Supreme Court hearing.
    ICE removed over 226,000 illegal aliens from the United States in 2017.
    ICE rescued or identified over 500 human trafficking victims and over 900 child exploitation victims in 2017 alone.
    In 2017, ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) arrested more than 127,000 aliens with criminal convictions or charges, responsible for
    Over 76,000 with dangerous drug offenses.
    More than 48,000 with assault offenses.
    More than 11,000 with weapons offenses.
    More than 5,000 with sexual assault offenses.
    More than 2,000 with kidnapping offenses.
    Over 1,800 with homicide offenses.
    Created the Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement (VOICE) Office in order to support the victims and families affected by illegal alien crime.
    More than doubled the number of counties participating in the 287(g) programs, which allows jails to detain criminal aliens until they are transferred to ICE custody.

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  • Democrats, they where calling for a wall all the way up until Trump called for it, then suddenly he is racist and evil and bad and having illegal aliens poor into your nation, abusing your welfare system and commiting crimes is some how a good thing. They are doing this PURELY because of politics, they hate Trump, so they are going to drag this out forever if they can. He was trying to play ball with them and they refused, this is on them.

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    • nope people called for strategic placement of wall units where drug trafficking was especially problematic. not an indiscreet ubiquitous 2000 mile wall

      facts matter

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    • @goaded I tell you to fuck off because you are lying. He said to stop drug trafficking, they never said that, said physical barriers if necessary, its currently deemed necessary. SO yes I tell you to fuck off because after three years of being polite about this and having you lie, misrepresent or outright ignore data or my statements, I've had quite enough of you. Then I was still being polite and you suggested I was racist, that's when I stopped being polite because I don't tolerate that kind of trolling bullshit games, the ones you play. So again, please fuck off.

    • 7d

      I apologise for missing the point you were trying to make; I thought you were trying to show that they wanted a full-length wall, but you were showing that they were talking about immigration and not drugs.

      That said, immigration from Mexico has more than halved in the last two decades.

  • The public if you think about, we complain and the one time the politicians actually listen then we get this - we complain enough that government services are crap, political correctness puts a stranglehold on even more of that service, staff leave because of all of that, we complain even more, the government shut things down due to lack of funding and thoroughly fucking us all over!

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  • No budget has passed both the House and Senate so blaming Trump is dumb, as in no working knowledge of how the U. S. government works.
    If they pass a budget and he vetoes it, then he can be blamed, but till then it is on the Legislature.

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  • The Congress is in charge of spending bills. Not the President; not anyone else. They're throwing a tantrum, and whining because the President won't do their job for them in the way they want...

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    • To all you downvoters, all I can say is read the Constitution. The powers of the various branches are spelled out. It's fact, not politics as usual.

  • Well since he promised Mexico was going to pay for it and got voted in for that being one of a few reasons, then reality hit that Mexico wasn't going to do his dirty work for him, and now he's trying to get tax payers to pay for this wall that won't improve anything... And then said he would be proud to shut the government down to get his wall... Then did just that... Then blamed the Democrats for it and is currently holding people's pay checks hostage while they're expected to still work until he gets what he wants.

    You tell me.

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  • WHy can't we vote for congressional republicans, it started under them.

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    • precisely for two years trump didn't need a single democratic vote. now that the democrats have control of the house for 1 week people want to somehow suggest democrats are to blame.

    • I’m seeing the WH shot down a proposal from republican senators working with Republican Congress that hadn’t gone to democrats yet.

      The republicans have no proposal that -they/ can pass let alone reach a compromise with democrats

    • Anyone voting democrats is a moron. I'm sorry.

      As of today, trump shot down a proposal being worked on by Graham with republican senators and (minority) congressman. They hadn't even gotten to trying to get democrats on board.

      The republicans cannot come up with a proposal that will pass republicans - which is not surprising given the shutdown started when the republicans controlled all three levers

      There is literally nothing for democrats to obstruct, there's nothing that would pass the senate and the white house.

  • Voters for voting partisan clown after partisan clown in

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  • The people who elected them are actually the real causes of what is going on at the moment

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  • Because they want to help illegals over American citizens that won't vote for the Democrats because we can set right through all of their lies and disdain towards our president and America's security

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  • Not Trump

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  • Blame?

    Don't you mean,

    "Who gets the credit?"

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  • 90% of Americans are unaffected, says a lot about gov waste. Leave it shut down a while longer

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  • No intelligent person blames this on the Democrats.

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  • Trump himself said he would happily take the shutdown and not blame Democrats.

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  • All the idiots that voted for trump.

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  • Trump said it was his decision.

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  • Donald Gump...
    Or is that Forest Trump?

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  • Trump obviously.

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  • Politicians

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  • Illegals

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  • satanist run this earth you know that right lol

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  • People like us.

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  • Donald Dumb.

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  • We put them there so we r

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