Can You be a patriot And Support wiki leaks's whistleblowers And denounce Iraq war?

people like Edward Snowden or chelsa ManningCan You be a patriot And Support wiki leaks's whistleblowers And denounce Iraq war?
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  • Well, i'm going to answer your question -very specifically-

    I believe you can be a patriot and denounce the Iraq war. I believe you can be a patriot and have been in favor of the Iraq war. And i believe you can be a patriot and believe there are other patriots who in good faith hold the opposite view.

    You also asked about 'WikiLeaks whistle blowers' like Chelsea manning or Edward snowden. So I will start with focus on them.

    Snowden I believe is motivated by patriotism and a belief in American civil liberties. Whether or not you think he was right to broadcast information on unknown levels of US surveillance activity, i don't really think there's any question his goal was to improve America.

    Manning … I think genuinely believed the same, but while I don't think there's much debate about snowden's mental state (or that whether or not to blow the lid on black project spying on u. s. citizens is something is at very least a grey area ethically) Manning was less stable and the argument that yes, s/he (he at the time? I don't know what i should be saying here) was witnessing some ugly and likely illegal stuff, not as many people would view whistleblowing as appropriate and some of it was being fueled not out of rational analysis and patriotism but personal issues. That said I do believe Manning acted in good faith.

    WikiLeaks in general … i think was started in good faith, but has become a puppet for a lot of actors who are not simply patriots acting in good faith, but as a distribution tool for state intelligence agencies to attack rivals.

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    • "They" works OK as a singular, although it doesn't feel right with a specific person.

      However, Manning started with the helicopter video, didn't she? That was basically a double-strike (hitting the first responders), which is something we rightly condemn terrorists for.

      I agree, they both acted in good faith.

    • @goaded I'm fine with going ahead and using she now for Manning, that's how she chooses to be identified. But 10 years ago she was he so when i'm talking about the past I get confused.

      Like should we say there's Caitlyn Jenner, remember when she won a medal in men's decathlon?

    • I know what you mean, but it will work itself out by the time we're forgotten! ;)

  • Absolutely. Whistleblowers are the true patriots. Tearing away secrecy and shedding light on what's undermining our democracy and free values. There is stark difference between Patriotism and Nationalism.

    Patriotism is wanting best for our country, standing behind and abiding by our values. If shadowy figures undermine those values in our name then putting focus on them is Patriotic thing to do. It was horrible what Chelsea Manning revealed and what was being done in the name of "freedom". Edward Snowden revealed how far our own governments were going to undermining liberty and democracy.

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  • i do feel like this is a conundrum i've wrestled with

    as a patriot our loyalty is to our country and the ideals it stands for not necessarily the government officials

    so we should praise people willing to expose government corruption and consider them patriots for doing what the did in the face of prosecution

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  • It's a shaky place, it's hard to know what hurts or helps but if I knew it was the right thing to do I would

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  • Patriots should stand for the best their country has to offer, not the worst actions of its politicians. In my view, it's UNpatriotic to keep your mouth shut when your country's leaders act like idiots, such as now in the US.

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  • People I talk to in the federal government get very angry at this opinion.. But what's the precedent? To show corruption, they're leaks. Leaks! How can you not be interested in seeing the truth about our structural integrity? Imagine being a Russian patriot and ignoring all the shit THEY got going on. It doesn't matter who's who, it matter's what's what. Does that make you pick "sides"? What's a fucking side? You pick one you join the monotone, insignificant rabble. When I look at the sparks in America all I see are legions and hordes. A true motherfucker would stand up and call everyone animals, and knock them all out of the way for something true. I'd like to see an isolationist Teddy Roosevelt hellbent on societal prosperity for all within, but a raw and realistic approach to the problems as our country is literally wobbling. It's been three hundred years, what's it gonna be? America? Or something nobody actually wanted even though they sought the alternative.

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    • Nice of you to mention Teddy. Despite some of his isolationist views and the some racial issues, he had a lot to say about patriotism that made sense. One was after his term as President, when he said, referring to Wilson, "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, right or wrong - is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Brilliant. Just brilliant, Teddy.

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    • 7d

      @loveslongnails I like your brain id go as fat to talk about this shit over s beer with ya. I do think this thought you give does bounce back to his voter base hard. Being a stalwart patriot. I just believe “everyone’s” playing our positions like a harp and we’re all coralling each other into a nightmare situation, that we so righteously wish to avoid yet continuously propel it in such historical ignorance to all parties and trains of thought involved

    • 7d

      I’d go so fat brah. So fat

  • Yes, and don't forget Binney and Drake -- the guys who put out the first big story leaks.

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  • Snowden and Manning is a world hero.

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  • What is your definition of a patriot?

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  • wikileaks. the same company that trump now detests?

    while he loved it during the campaign

    why the sudden, swing?

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    • cuz he used some leaks against haliry

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    • maybe both r bad jullian assannge said both but i prefer trump

    • no, SHE HAD NO INDICTMENTS. she's NOT A CRIMINAL

      HE IS

      TRUMP IS A FUCKTARD

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