What about bullying in schools? Tell the victims to just grow thicker skin and deal with it?
@lumos Bullying is abuse. Whether it's verbal, physical, or emotional, it's still abuse. With bullying, you DO grow some thicker skin, AND you take legal action instead of just whining about it. If you're experiencing bullying, you either talk to your parents, or some form of authority, and take legal action against that person. Depending on your state there are different laws, policies, and regulations against bullying. Mainly instated to protect children from said abuse. I think it was pretty obvious that in my opinion I was talking about full-fledged adults banning "offensive" speech because someone disagrees with them. If that's allowed, SJWS and PC culture is going to have a field day with that. I don't think offensive speech should be banned in any way. As I said offense is subjective. Who are we to say what is offensive and what it isn't? For further reference watch this video: https://youtu.be/XM-HJT8_esM
My son gets bullied. I got relentlessly bullied. Yes, you should be taught to stand up for yourself.
I didn’t think it was ”very obvious”, because all these things could be said about bullying too. ”Grow thicker skin”, ”people can and will say whatever they want”, ”it’s up to you if you let it offend you/disrupt your peace”, ”offence is subjective”. Where do you draw the line? When is it not subjective anymore? When do the arguments you used not hold any value anymore? What if the person doing the bullying believes he/she is just ”speaking her mind”? Isn’t that subjective too?
”speaking their* mind”
@lumos As I stated previously, bullying is a different case, there are LEGAL ACTIONS that can be put in place. Depending on which state you live in, there are different laws, policies, and regulations to protect kids. Bullying isn't free speech for a few reasons. Firstly, because you are causing purposeful damage unto others. Also, because bullying can evolve into physical harm to a victim caused by the perpetrator or the victim themselves. And lastly, because being bullied are personal attacks meant to hurt the victim mentally, emotionally, or even physically. I still stand by the fact that bullying does give you thicker skin and the ability to stand up for yourself. The world isn't this perfect place that receives you into its warm arms and keep you in a utopic bubble. A lot of people are mean, judgmental and rude. School prepares you for the real world and the real world comes with many assholes. Offence IS subjective because there isn't a factual or universal thing that makes us all offended. Offence is based on how you feel and think. You could piss off different groups of people (depending on what you say), but there isn't a universally offending thing. However, speaking one's mind isn't subjective. The ability to speak one's mind is a human right and therefore a FACT. I'm pretty sure you're the only one misunderstanding what I've said/explained so far. I don't know if this is a triggering topic for you, but get that sorted out before building a blind and baseless argument. You were extremely nit-picky about my opinion and ignored any explanation I gave on the points I made. What I tried emphasizing was that no one should control how you express yourself. A person has every right to exact their HUMAN right of free speech.
Woah easy, I just wanted to ask a couple of questions to get a more clear picture of where you personally draw the line for what bullying is and isn’t. Because I’ve seen some people thinking that they can tell people to kill themselves because it’s ”free speech” and ”their right”. It’s not a triggering topic to me though, I was just interested in hearing more about your opinion.
@lumos Well, thanks! I like debating about different topics. Sorry for the long response. I tend to get carried away.
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You can't say when and where everyone has to have the same rights regardless of opinion.
@gregstuff Our "right" to free speech only relates to what government entities can censor or not. In a private setting, one does not have an unfettered right to free speech, in the US.
Twitter and YouTube are going to be regulated because of that.
And only the government can "prohibit" in the sense meant in this question.
Or you could just ignore the person who does that instead.
Have you tried telling any admin of any website that? 😂 Nah, spam and meaningless posts actually cost data storage. People are free to create their own platform and make noise there. Not in my platform, bandwidth is limited, sorry.
So you're arguing more over the quality of posts, not their content. I think it's a given that anyone would support the banning of senseless wall-of-text spam.
'you're arguing more over the quality of posts, not their content'Quality of posts and their contents are related. Like I clearly wrote above "1000 words with mostly adjectives to describe someone's personal quality to discredit them instead of addressing their points" have the same quality as a wall of text spam, it's worse, because you actually need to read through them to know that they don't contribute in any meaningful way to the discussion. For spam I could just use algorithm to filter them.Now there are posts that make good points, but contain some insults and offend people, I wouldn't censor them (unless they blatantly violate some rules of course). Still, I would strongly encourage all people with offensive opinions to go to a public square with a megaphone and give their speech. That's much more preferable than just sitting in their mom's basement and occupy the space of my server's data storage.
"this I mean like scientific facts not opinions"Bad idea. If you study the history of science you will discover how frequently scientists disagree amongst themselves and/or later "change" the "facts."
@Liam_Hayden I think she meant purposefully lying about ”facts” to manipulate and control people/societies.
I think harassment lines are dangerous while I'm not opposed to them we need to be very careful with them.
I see your point but, dude, edge.
Warning: container holds sharp objects.
I'm not in favor of it and I'm a woman
You guys are lucky to have that thing
Thank you for reminding me of the existence of this well thought out presentation.
Were you replying to someone?
Why does it do that on my app sometimes?I'm ashamed.
Dunno, hence why I no longer use it.
Lol thanks for pointing it out.
So what about hate speech. Or speech about assassinating someone
Direct threats should be - and are - prosecuteable. As for hate speech, I believe it needs to be legal. Obviously it's wrong, but I don't think that's worth the precident that any speech without direct expression of harmful intent can be illegal.
Hate speech is free speech
Let's hope not.
Or more guys are just answering this and are interested perhaps.Look at the difference in sample size.
You can't promote a certain political ideology but then why can you promote many others? Who says which ideology is bad and which isn't?
Well you have to draw a line somewhere. I think everyone can agree that Fascism/Nazism is bad. How about we start there.
The issue then becomes defining Nazism/ fascism. If you haven't noticed, everyone that the media doesn't like, especially trump, is called a Nazi when they are nowhere within the vicinity of being a Nazi. So, if we do as you say, then people in power will abuse their ability to ban Nazis by labeling their opposition as Nazi. This in fact is ALREADY being done.
Yeah I get what you're saying, but we can define fascism and Nazism. I mean being angry at a supermarket doesn't make you a nazi lol. But being a right wing white nationalist does make you a fascist. It's possible to define things, we define things legally all the time.
Excuse me, but no. Here we are already facing issues. One can easily be a nationalist without being Nazi. One does not have to wish genocide upon others to still put forward their own nation first and foremost in everything.
If you put your nation first and foremost before anything, then you're brainwashed and have other problems, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're a nazi. We can limit free speech for fascists and nazis, I don't see any problem drawing the line there.
So if I post a joke and say "Hitler did nothing wrong," I am to be banned? How is that not Nazi-esque?
That was offensive and thus you should now be banned, no?
Offensive to you, not to many others. So of course they would stay.
It seems a bit inconsistent and objective, based on the 'moderator' and maybe not reading in the CONTEXT of the post.
What exactly is hate speech?
Define "hate speech" in a PURELY OBJECTIVE form that cannot be used to violate anyone's rights.
Is you finding something to be “hate speech” not the same as you finding something offensive?
Hate speech is sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. Anything that puts people's lives in danger. Life and death situations you know
To a liberal hate speech is anything that goes against whatever agenda they want to push same as Facebook or Youtube believe so banning free speech would get any non extremist views banned no thanks.
In other words, hate speech is any speech that you don't like.
@JamesRandiDebates who gives a crap about something someone doesn't like. Hate speech has nothing to do with that. You people obviously don't care about the death and discrimination people face thanks to hate speech
I am guessing this anon wants speech banned because she is mad that people call trannies their biological sex or something along those lines is what I am guessing
@IreallyhateGAG Nice assumption. You know me so well huh lol
well what else would it be after what you said? You break everything up into groups so you can say they are victims
Correct me if I am wrong but the only real reason to get authorizes involved is if someone actually threatens to harm you. Sexist, racist, homophobic etc opinions by themselves are inherently harmful. The worst they would do to you is enrage you because of how stupid it sounds and you are more than welcome to challenge them on their ideas. Still it is not grounds for authorities to step in and ruin everything as it isn’t their job, their job is to make sure the system that allows all of their clients to speak freely is running smoothly.
@Snakeyes7 the funny part is LGBT will call you a closet gay to insult you if you disagree with them even though they don't want being called gay to be an insult. Free speech definitely should cover all speech now if someone is threatened that makes it a crime or a conspiracy if there is a plan for violence but other than those 2 things it is just words if someone is a snowflake and can't handle that then go live somewhere without a constitution.
The worse thing about hate speech (sexism, racism, homophobia, etc) is not what you mentioned. It's their ability to build communities and groups that will become aggressive or hate people because of their sex or race or whatever. These people kill others and all you people care about is them having the right to make more groups and spread more hate. How patroitc 😂😂😂😂
Banning free speech is going to create more hate groups. Shutting down someone's right to an opinion pisses people off. If someone disagrees with gays as long as he isn't hurting them he has a right to say it.
@IreallyhateGAG disagreeing is not hated speech. Stop putting words into my mouth
That is the direction it will go just look at facebook I have never used hate speech but I was banned 5 times for hate speech
@IreallyhateGAG What did you say?
and ill tell you if it's hate speech
Direct threats are already illegal under most harassment laws. How does racist speech put people lives in danger? Me saying "I hate niggers", "niggers deserve to hang", etc. None of these cause actual harm to people, because they are words with no intent behind them.
2 things I said were they should secure our border with snipers at he border and I would not like to work at a job if a tranny was there.
Lol, we should just listen to opinion owner, she knows what is and is not hate speech, so we should just trust her blindly xD
"Ill tell you if its hate speech"
at the border
@devilman666 lmao that is hate speech. You'll encourage people to do your dirty work for you which is... kill people and discriminate against people.
I am not condoning violence on anyone but in the case of trannies they bring it all on themselves and their supporters bring it on as well if they got mental help they would not commit suicide and people would not beat their asses or kill them but Dems want votes so mentally ill people die because of it.
@IreallyhateGAG that is not hate speech. Those things are your opinion of who YOU don't want to work with or securing the border from illegal people. You're not saying everyone should not want to work with trans people. That guy said "niggers shoud hang and he hate niggers" and dont think that's hate speech lmao. What do you think?
I don't use the n word but also you ban everything bad anyone says there is only gonna be more violence because of it from extremists
@IreallyhateGAG do you think what he said is hate speech though? what race are you?
If you are saying people should hang then that can be interpreted as a threat so comes under something much worse than "hate speech"
@Opinion owner it might be hate speech, but it is not encouraging anything, just stating an opinion. It is the same as me saying "the Toronto Raptors deserve to be removed from the NBA", (I dont believe this, nor do I believe what I said about black people, that's why I used "" quotations marks) it is an opinion. Encouraging these things would be worded more like "let's go kill some niggers". I agree that these things are hateful, but we have to be careful when calling things murderous, another example is if I said, "all white people are fucking stupid" Or "white people deserve to die because of their racist views". Neither of these directly incite violence, it is just hateful speech that involves generalizations.
Yea what he said was hate speech I am Italian myself
@DeshawnMGTOW not necessarily, it depends on the context. I do agree that it was borderline death threat, but it carries no intent behind it. Can, "murderers deserve to face the electric chair" be interpreted as a threat? Yes. Should we make it illegal to say, "murderers deserve to face the electric chair"? I dont think so.
@Opinion owner by the way, I dont believe the things I say, I simply like to play devils advocate. I typically dont agree with racist or bigoted speech but I think people deserve the right to say hateful things.
@IreallyhateGAG uhmm... you are using more hateful speech than I am since you are defending violence. You said that trannies bring violence on themselves. I agree that mental help would reduce suicide rates among transgender people, however you went further and said, "and people would not beat their asses or kill them"... this is blatant victim blaming, the only person to blame for violent actions is the person committing the violence.
I'm a european mutt, but mostly german, my one grandfather was full german and fled germany during ww2, my grandfather on my mothers side is a mutt, tbh I dont know where my family on his side comes from, and apparently neither does he. I consider myself Canadian though.
Only mentioning it since @OpinionOwner apparently thinks race is important.
@devilman666 no matter how you word it. It's hate speech. Saying niggers should hang is disgusting. I don't even understand why I have to explain this to an adult. Like dude lol
No one said it isn’t. We are saying it’s too petty to be worthy of punishment from the higher ups. Let the person who got offended handle the asshat who offended them.
Saying "niggers should hang" is definitely disgusting hate speech, I already pointed out that I agree with that. I simply asked why it should be illegal, you compared racist speech with murder, so I asked how. "Hate speech is... Anything that puts people's lives in danger." "You people obviously dont care about the death and discrimination people face".Maybe try reading what I am actually saying instead of calling me a racist for making examples of what racists would say. Like I don't know why I have to explain this three fucking times, I put quotation marks around the racist things I said to show that they were examples of things people might say rather than what I was saying. A good example that you can take seriously is that my step dad used to threaten to beat me on a nearly daily basis, he didn't actually beat me, but was it child abuse for him to threaten me with physical violence? Does he deserve to go to prison for child abuse?Do people who say, "niggers deserve to hang", deserve to be charged with the crime of murder? And for an easier example: do people who say, "women should go back to the kitchen", deserve to be imprisoned for putting womens lives at risk? That is sexist to say and you said that "hate speech is sexism... hate speech is anything that puts people's lives in danger." So if that is sexist then it must be hate speech and must put someones life in danger?
@Snakeyes7 not if they are too moral or scared. Obviously not everyone is successful at defending themselves against killer racists. They travel in packs like the dogs they are in case you forgot. Those people deserve protection from those who are supposed to protect and serve; however, instead, those people love racists as well
I get it, you're a fascist pig.
@OpinionOwner I hear feminists all over the internet saying that all men are rapists/pigs/whatever, joking about harming and killing men, destroying their property, falsely accusing them of rape, and actually try to kill them by shooting, stabbing or running them over with a car as many articles and videos out there show them doing. Instead of their peers condemning them, as they should, they are being praised saying “you go girl” and things like that as they think it’s empowering. Are they not enacting the very definition of hate speech and do you think they should be thrown in prison as well?
@Snakeyes7 please dude. Both genders are doing the same to each other. Women are just now being as radical as men. However, because women are fighting and not being so weak (as we use to be), it's a problem when men are just the same. Because of this, there's a balance. There are crazy women, crazy men, sexist women, sexist men, killer women, killer men, liar women, liar men, etc
No matter what you do not shut down free speech just because the world is a mess instead you fix the problem and the problem today is PC.
@IreallyhateGAG I agree. The problem should be fixed but racists can't be un-racists. The logical thing to do is eliminate them but people are too moral to do that instead they give them rights to kill and hurt others
No the best way to get rid of racists is not squashing them but making them realize that they are being idiots from other people. Once they realize how bigoted they are, they will then think twice about thinking the way they do.
@Snakeyes7 Wow lol you actually believe that huh. Look at cops dude. All they do is kill and harass innocent people. And you know what? They get away with it because they are cops, people respect them, yet never see their flaws. People don't understand that racists become cops and higher up jobs just to murder and hurt people. They should be stopped not talked to
@Opinion owner "all they do is kill and harass innocent people" funny you say that when you are advocating for murdering racists and police officers... sounds like you are the violent one.
@devilman666 I'm not advocating anything. Just pointing out how easy sexist, racist, homophobic, etc people have it. We all know the reason those things aren't considered a huge deal that the system will NOT deal with
@devilman666 lmao plus you're super funny to turn this around on me. You're the racist one but I'm a bad person and violent because I want to help normal people. Good one
@OpinionOwner what did he say that made him racist? The fact that he wants people to leave cops, the very people who swore to protect people’s rights from being infringed, alone? Yes there are bad cops but the vast majority of them will never do anything to harm a citizen unless they are about to or actively attacking the cops first. I agree with you as far as him falsely accusing you of advocating violence but anyone who is saying racist, sexist whatever things online isn’t physically harming anyone yet you want them imprisoned. The only reason to at least keep an eye on them is if they are threatening you specifically and you fear them enough to make you want to hide under a floor. Let’s face it though, no one person is going to be able to slaughter an entire class of people all on their own. They will most likely get as far as homicide and will be stopped afterwards by, you guessed it, the police.
@Snakeyes7 The guy is racist. I can tell by his demeanor and it isn’t just because he said the n word either. I don’t even care about him believing cops should be left alone. He didn’t even say that lol. Overall, It is your opinion that most cops aren't racist, just as it is mine that most are. I simply say what I see. Cops beating on people who can't even defend themselves against them (women, men AND children) or shooting them numerous times. What kind of human being that’s supposed to protect and serve does that? Also, I never said being racist or anything online will physically harm others. I was speaking of actual accident of racists killing people.
@Opinion owner you need mental help, you seem to think murdering people is okay while being unable to read, as I have pointed out several times that I am not racist, I simply like to play devil's advocate."I can tell by his demeanor"... you dont even know me... get your head out of your ass and stop acting like a know it all? Not only are you immoral but you are a dumbass who assumes things without reason. At this point you just want me to be a racist because then you can continue to ignore how shitty of a person you are (if you listened to what I said then you would have to accept that you are no better than the worst members of the police. If I was half as violent/bigoted/stupid as you are then I would be saying that we need to kill people like you who are delusional and violent. I said racist things as an example of how they aren't necessarily violent, the other guy talks about beating trannies but I made a sarcastic comment about hanging black people to make a point and now I'm the violent bigot? No, you are the bigot who hates police and wants to kill anyone you dont like) Here are some of my favorite quotes from you: "The logical thing to do is eliminate them (racists)" "lmao that is hate speech. You'll encourage people to do your dirty work for you which is... kill people and discriminate against people" (I love that last one, as you talk about discriminating against police and killing racists, you also point out how the things you say are hate speech... but you also want hate speech banned... lol) "these people (racists) kill others"You literally are just trying to encourage violence, which you accused me of doing earlier. You also spread bigotry and hatred, you dont provide good reasons for why you hate these groups, you just generalize them as being violent and evil while you yourself call for violence against them.
@Opinion owner finally you use hate speech as much as anyone else who commented here, you just choose not to see the things you say as hate speech
@devilman666 I'm shitty? Lmao I'm not going to even go there with you anymore. I'm tired of having this conversation with an obvious retard. Talk to your own useless self because I didn't even finish reading those three paragraphs. No use now f off
Yeah, you're a shitty bigot who won't even read what I have to say. at least I am open minded enough to actually consider other peoples views before I judge them, plus I am willing to change my view of people. You are a bigot who likes to judge people and then refuse to listen to why you are a bigot for judging them and refusing to listen to them. Whatever though, I hope one day you become a better person.