While I agree with your statement about how people should not forget the places they came from, I do have to disagree with you on a few of your later points. I will use US immigration law as the basis for my argument, as I am more familiar with it than immigration policies for other countries. Though your country of birth can never change, if you are a permanent legal resident of a country, that is your country and your home. As far as someone being kicked out, there are only four ways a citizen can be denaturalized and ultimately deported.1. Falsification or Concealment of Relevant Facts.2. Refusal to Testify Before Congress.3. Membership in Subversive Groups Within 5 Years of Naturalization.4. Dishonorable Military Discharge Within 5 Years of Naturalization.Each of these requires a very high burden of proof and are geared at showing the citizen was not eligible for naturalization or acquired it through willful concealment or material misrepresentation. I would love to hear from anyone familiar with other immigration systems about any similarities or differences there may be.I tried to post a link to my source, but it seems you need to be XPer level 3 to do so.
First of all, thank you for not attacking me. I know that a lot of GAG users would attack me just because of this answer.I'm not American, so I had no idea that the immigration policies in the USA were like that. I appreciate the fact that you shared this information with me. It's always good to learn how things work in other countries."Though your country of birth can never change, if you are a permanent legal resident of a country, that is your country and your home. " - I disagree with that. You're just a permanent legal resident of this said country, you were not born there. Especially if the locals are always reminding you that you don't belong there. Your country is always the country where you were born.
Maybe we could compromise and say a person can call both their first home and what they hope to be their final home ‘their country’? As far as locals treating new arrivals like that, I think it’s horrible. I think generally people in the states are pretty accepting of immigrants. I know that where I am, here in west Texas, people will not hesitate to call that kind of behavior out.
"Maybe we could compromise and say a person can call both their first home and what they hope to be their final home ‘their country’?" We can do that if the person is welcomed where he/she lives. And also if they like the country where they are living. ". I know that where I am, here in west Texas, people will not hesitate to call that kind of behavior out." - That's great! Unfortunately where I live, things don't work like that.
I agree.I’m sorry to hear that’s the case where you are.
It's ok. I've been living in this shithole for 23 years, but I'm ready to leave.
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Interesting, why not?
They left their country because they didn't like it, now come to ours to make it more like their own, and though I feel a lot of migrants don't vote for this reason, I think the right should be stripped, our families had to fight wars and work hard to get this country where it is, I feel one should have the right to vote in a country if your family was there pre WW2. Here in New Zealand in WW2 we sent more people per capita then any other country we contributed 194,000 people to the war and only had a population of 1,600,000. Let those numbers sink in. Now our population is 4,500,000. In the last 10 years 700,000 people have officially immigrated here, a lot of these people are not citizens but are permanent residents and they have the right to vote, which is a absolute joke. So the country we died to protect is being stolen from us and slowly but surely the Maori and British NZ Europeans who the Maori signed the treaty with are losing their say. The Maori never agreed to get new migrants the vote they only signed the treaty with British New Zealanders. I feel we have been to kind in our English speaking countries, all to be challenged and walked all over by new comers. We need to grow a back bone and regain control of our countries
Well, I wouldn’t say that’s the attitude of all who move to a foreign countries, but I can understand where you’re coming from. I would say that an incoming migrant’s desire to challenge the values of a country should be factored into immigration policy rather than just removing naturalized citizen’s right to vote.
Yes but it is not possible to read minds, these people lie just to get in the country and I feel we should strip them of the right to vote, every country in the world should make it you can only vote if your family was there pre WW2 and in year 2100 they bring the vote foward and allow families who have been here since year 2000 to vote. And it is not the citizenship that gives you the right to vote, it is the hard work and generations of toil that earns you the right to vote, if the major English speaking countries of the world do not do this soon we are going to lose the thing and families fought and died for. All because we don't have a back bone to stand up for what we have more right over then people who never earnt it. Our families earnt it they weren't just given it
I guess we’ll just have to disagree then.
Here we have Chinese permanent residents that have the right to vote, they could get citizenship and China doesn't now allow dual citizenship and they want their Chinese passport. Why did my government give them the right to vote when most of the citizens don't think it is right. How are we meant to hold democratic values when democracy is being size lined. There are so many foreign lobbyist in our governments and we are losing our rights and guess what! I does not favour us I assure you on that, their is politic genocide happening in our countries. We need to cut ties with these countries the don't hold our values asap
So a citizen of China who doesn't not want to become a NZ citizen because they are a Chinese Communist loyalist have the exact same rights as me and free use of all our infrastructure and vote in local and government elections. Please explain to me how this is acceptable? They are not being stopped at the boarder they are lying to our boarder control and taking advantage of the citizens of this country
I agree with you that non-citizens, and especially people who have no intention of becoming citizens, should not be permitted to vote. The U. S. does not allow non-citizens to vote, so that point would be mostly moot where I am. In regard to cutting ties, I think it’s also important to consider the strategic value of having a relationship with nations that may not share your country’s moral or political stances.
We are allowing access to our markets and they are not opening their markets to use like we are to them. I don't support trading with people and being kind to people who treat us like a enemy
I understand. I think a country should make its moral stances clear, and I do agree there is a point where values cannot be compromised. However, I also believe that pure isolationism can be dangerous. There is a line, and while I don’t know where that is, I have to believe it lies somewhere between taking in too much and shutting the world out completely.
I really wish the USA could help NZ before it's to late and we become a satellite state of communist China. Currently China is governing what we teach about China in our schools and university and censoring what we write in our news papers and content of the internet in New Zealand that speaks the truth about China gets removed, saying it is hate speech, when it's not hate speech I'm just trying to inform people about what is going on and I have evidence to back it up. By allowing China and countries thst don't hold our values access to our markets (which is not reciprocal might I add) they have been able to buy news papers and many other things that is a threat to our national security. With the massive influx of Chinese through the last 10 years all our infrastructure is failing, so China says to the government they will loan us the money to build and renovate schools and hospitals and roading all of which are state owned and free for citizens and also permanent residents, and then China dictate to us what can be taught in schools about them. So let me get this straight they are loaning money to us to build hospitals and schools to service their citizens who don't even want to become a NZ citizens. Our schools and hospitals are all free and they use to work fine because generations had paid for them (our families) and any surplus was invested to grow a portfolio for times of need. But now we are asking to pay off a loan we never needed just so those communists can come here for free schooling because the government said they could again what the citizens wanted.
No the USA should trade, with like minded countries and not ones comparable to the Soviet Union
If we dont start standing strong together, we will all fall together soon enough
Agreements could definitely be reached between the U. S. and New Zealand, but I think real change has to come from within the country itself. You should get involved in your community, and try to put together events where these issues can be discussed in a multifaceted way. I would recommend some sort of organized forum with at least one panelist for each aspect of the issue. Although, you would have to ensure a level of respect from those on the forum or in the audience. These kind of events can quickly become a group of people propping up their own ideas without allowing proper discourse.
Exactly, I want to talk about these problems respectful through diplomacy, before things get out of hand. though after the Christchurch mosque shootings, hate speech is illegal or they are trying to pass a law, so that means that talking about issues like what I've been talking about will soon be illegal I NZ which is a violation of democracy and freedom of speech
While the free world has been so concerned whats happening around the world and trying to pervent big wars happening they have forgotten about their own countries that are being attacked from the inside out through stealth. I find it funny how we are soon concerned about other countries and fighting to help them but we don't even stand up for our self as allis
I just think us Five eyes countries need to put up some temporary road blocks till we have a full grasp about the level of political, corporate and industrial espionage commited by foreign nationals
Well, I won’t speak to that as I am only somewhat familiar with the way FVEY operates. However, if you do decide to put together an event to discuss these issues, I would be more than happy to let you pick my brain about how to appropriately put one together. Keep in mind, I am not very educated on New Zealand’s laws regarding freedom of assembly, so my input would be mostly focused on the facilitation of the event itself.
Any advice would be much appreciated:)