You've done a reasonable job at steel manning the pro-choice side, but you are injecting your own bias.
@sheepdip, it's a reason why I wrote I'm pro-life, because of I wanted to be clear I'm not agree with it and has the right to express my own opinion. This isn't supposed to be a neutral article for school or work. If she wants pro-choice arguments from pro-choicers, she can just google it.
I was actually complimenting you on your attempt at steel manning the position.
@sheepdip, thanks. :)
Late term abortions are for the use of organs and they even resuscitate children to keep their organs fresher and in return are worth more. Currently baby organs being harvested from abortions are only worth $15k after the bills pass for post birth abortions they will net around $100k
@sheepdip Youve got a search engine look it up yourself. Or must you wait until the State media reports on it?Why do you think Democrats advocate post birth abortions? Firstly you can't abort something after its delivered. Then its murder. Two, the purpose of such a policy is to harvest the fetal tissues, organs and other 'desirable' items.
Take a look into Ralph Northams and Cuomos legislation about post birth terminations. Learn your shit Dumbocrats.
Lets engage in a little hypothetical first.If I want to convince you of something, lets say "there are alligators in New York sewers". You would then ask "how do you know that?" If my reply is "Google it" then I'm not proving anything to anyone, I'm being an ass.So I say it plainly; you think fetuses are being aborted for the express purpose of being harvested - what evidence do you have to support that?
Why are you assuming I'm an American democrat?
*Northam has argued for reducing abortion rates through education and expanding access to contraceptives.Planned Parenthood pledged to spend $3 million supporting Northam in his 2017 general election campaign for governor.Northam opposes banning abortions after 20 weeks through a state version of the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act.For third-trimester abortions, Northam supports Virginia's current law requiring certification by multiple physicians.*
I'm googling "post birth termination Ralph northams" and getting nothing but opinion pieces. Link to something more factual please.
@sheepdip So Im telling you that childrens organs and tissues are being harvested once they have been euthanized and you equate that to the rarity that people flush unwanted pets down the toilet into NYs' sewer system. Nice. And no, Children are not being aborted for the sole purpose of harvest but rather the harvest is a consequence or bi-product of the abortion. Abortion is population control - that is its main purpose - originated in Japan and adopted here and globally for that matter. Institutions of Racism are Planned Parenthood founded on the premise that Blacks and Minorities are weeds and must be eradicated. Eugenics my G. Therefore you see why PP is predominately located in urban communities where poor whites and minorities live and they target those groups as well. More blacks are aborted per year than are birthed. Its a stagnation and decline in the population of a people that only account for 13% of the U. S population. Abortion is more than a 'womens choice' its racial genocide and population control. Listen to Bernie Sanders talk about how 2nd and 3rd world countries need to practice abortions in order to prevent climate change since India and China equate to 33% of the worlds population
*you equate that to the rarity that people flush unwanted pets down the toilet into NYs' sewer system*I beg your fucking pardon, but what are you smoking? I used that as an example of a claim, not an equation of acts.*rather the harvest is a consequence or bi-product of the abortion*Yes, this is a factual thing. However, it is not exactly correct; fetuses are either disposed of as medical waste, or some labs will gain consent to use them in research.* Abortion is population control*This however is not. If the case was that dire we would have passed through a one Chinese style one child only policy by now. It is too costly to use up time and resources for that.*originated in Japan *Citation needed.*Institutions of Racism*Do you mean "institutes that are racist"?*blacks and Minorities are weeds and must be eradicated. Eugenics my G*And the crazy train has left the station. You sound like you might be off your meds.*Therefore you see why PP is predominately located in urban communities*Because these communities need help with unwanted births more than others. Wealthy ones have better access to family planning. *More blacks are aborted per year than are birthed*Citation needed.*Abortion is more than a 'womens choice' its racial genocide and population control.*Choo choo.*listen to Bernie Sanders talk about how 2nd and 3rd world countries need to practice abortions in order to prevent climate change since India and China equate to 33% of the worlds population*Do you mean this statement?"So I think, especially in poor countries around the world where women do not necessarily want to have large numbers of babies, and where they can have the opportunity through birth control to control the number of kids they have, is something I very, very strongly support."How monstrous.
@sheepdip Nit picking brit fuck. Yes in the U. S the claim is "Institutional Racism" meaning institutions that are racist in principle and action, yet they never define it and leave it up in the ether. I can see why your nation is in decline - end of its life cycle.
@sheepdip Go look up Margaret Sanger.
@sheepdip Blacks equate to 13% of population, abort at a rate of 35% www.lifesitenews.com/.../cdc-statistics-indicate-abortion-rate-continues-to-be-higher-among-minoritiIn New York City alone in 2012 (One city amonst thousands and in 1 year) www.cnsnews.com/.../nyc-more-black-babies-killed-abortion-born
@sheepdip here's your BBC state media talking about my guy https://www.BBC.com/news/world-us-canada-49601678Yes, the largest contributors to Carbon emission and Climate Change factors are India and China primarily who account for 31% of the worlds Population so in the best effort of tackling the problem would be to regulate population of 2nd and 3rd world countries in his eyes. And P. S China no longer follows the One Child Policy.
*Nit picking brit fuck* If we want clear communication and understandable dialogue then being it is important to communicate effectively. I want to understand you, so I take steps to do so.*I can see why your nation is in decline - end of its life cycle.*All these flavours and you choose to be salty. We've had what we've had and will have what is coming.
@sheepdip Yup, all these ways to respond yet you choose to be a twat.
* here's your BBC state media talking about my guy https://www.BBC.com/news/world-us-canada-49601678*That's the same article I quoted.*Yes, the largest contributors to Carbon emission and Climate Change factors are India and China*Correct.*so in the best effort of tackling the problem would be to regulate population of 2nd and 3rd world countries in his eyes*No, what he's saying is that they need options and control over their reproductive health. It's not about *population*, its about *social structure*.* And P. S China no longer follows the One Child Policy*And? I don't recall saying it currently did. I said we would have passed through a similar rule before we started using abortion to regulate population.
*Blacks equate to 13% of population, abort at a rate of 35%*That website is biased as hell. Did you not try to find a more neutral source? Those stats are interesting if true, but correlation does not mean causation. At best you have a conspiracy hypothesis here.*www. cnsnews. com/.../nyc-more-black-babies-killed-abortion-born*Gosh, if that isn't a biased headline. So, more black women looked at their situation and said "I don't want/I can't have a child in my current circumstances". That's evidence for black women being able to take more control over their lives.
*yup, all these ways to respond yet you choose to be a twat*Lol, damn right I do, when I suspect your next words will be "buy my water filters".
@sheepdip Literally chose that site because its left wing bias and I assumed that you would take Left wing media as real news.
@sheepdip No black women or poor people in general don't make that decision, they are encouraged to do so because they are told they are too poor to bring life into the world and raise it so its best for them to just abort. On Halloween (devils day/day of the dead) black PP twitter tweeted this out -> twitter.com/.../925380307242582016Since 1973 (Legalization of Abortion , passed on a lie I may note) more than 19M blacks have been aborted/prevented life. That is 9 years after CRA '64. And if you believe in numerology you would know 9 represents the end because its the final number in the sequence. 0-9.
*literally chose that site because its left wing bias*... if that is what you think left wing looks like then I'm astonished.*I assumed that you would take Left wing media as real news*Why? I'm a centrist.
*No black women or poor people in general don't make that decision*If you're trying to say that people pay for a procedure, go through all of these steps (https://m. wikihow. com/Get-an-Abortion-%28USA%29) and make the very emotional decision to have an abortion *don't make a decision* then I don't know what to say to you.*they are encouraged to do so because they are told they are too poor to bring life into the world and raise it so its best for them to just abort.*Citation needed.*On Halloween (devils day/day of the dead) black PP twitter tweeted this out -> twitter. com/.../925380307242582016*I'm not making a judgement about why they posted that. However they then posted this; "Between 1998-2015, 16.1mil women accessed abortion care, 108 died. Btwn 2011–'13, BW accounted for 43.5 deaths of every 100,000 live birthsFor reference, see maternal mortatility 1-pager: cdc.gov/.../pmss.html… Maternal deaths for Black women span age, education and income level. Racism, lack of access to quality health care and poverty kill us."So... more women die from births than from abortions. They are trying to say that if you feel pressured to have the birth it is safer to have the abortion. It's a post about prioritizing your own health.*since 1973 (Legalization of Abortion , passed on a lie I may note) more than 19M blacks have been aborted/prevented life.*So more women are able to make choices. Oh no.*And if you believe in numerology*Hahaha, ok, ok, are you for real?
@sheepdip I agree women should have access to proper sexual and maternal resources so they dont have to go the black market back alley route which leads to complications. The issue is tax funding abortions with ALL taxpayer dollars then turn around and donate those funds to a singular political party the DNC.
I appreciate you trying to challenge my views and it leads to an expansion of knowledge, I hope you came away from this a better man. I understand you live in the UK so you're detached from the U. S political sphere, only if you lived here youd realize how backwards this nation truly is.
*The issue is tax funding abortions with ALL taxpayer dollars then turn around and donate those funds to a singular political party the DNC*This is a massive swing from your previous statements.
*I appreciate you trying to challenge my views*And yet you've not responded credibly to any of my criticisms.*I hope you came away from this a better man*In what way do you think that has been achieved? *i understand you live in the UK so you're detached from the U. S political sphere, only if you lived here youd realize how backwards this nation truly is*Don't worry, by talking g to you I have a very good idea of quite how dire you people are.
@sheepdip By you learning something other than playing devils advocate. Centrists are Independents who have no beliefs therefore a typically spineless and indecisive about which positions to take hence their political ideology. \Again you don't live in the U. S so no point in arguing politics with someone who doesn't live here and understand whats going on here. Besides what BBC, The Sun or Good Morning Britain says
*by you learning something other than playing devils advocate*I'm not. I'm saying your positions have been reached by a preconceived bias when reading the data. I'm trying to get you to see that by using the Socratic method.*centrists are Independents who have no beliefs therefore a typically spineless and indecisive about which positions to take hence their political ideology.*Like fuck are we. How about you ask the centrist questions rather than telling him what he is?*Again you don't live in the U. S so no point in arguing politics with someone who doesn't live here and understand whats going on here*As an outside observer I am actually better placed to be objective.*Besides what BBC, The Sun or Good Morning Britain says*And why do you think these are credible in their reporting?
@sheepdip Because they are state run media sites? Pillars of the establishment. And prolonged exposure of power leads to corruption. Power corrupts, absolute power absolutely corrupts. Look for example in America. Fox News is considered State media and is called Faux (fake) News. It is thee only mainstream conservative media site on cabal. Now CNN, ABC, CBS, and NBC are all left wing media sites. You hear from those perspectives more than the other one. In the U. S you have 90% of media controlled by 6 conglomerates. here's the link of the conglomerates and their assets. Now tell me we dont live in a state of propaganda. www.webfx.com/.../Fox has no public reach in America, if you are a politician or anyone who wants to get their voice heard nationally you go on the Big 4 and not Fox. Also if I remember correctly The Sun is an asset of Rupert Murdoch
*Because they are state run media sites?*I'm confused - is this praise for them or an implied criticism of me?Media, especially state media has dropped in many peoples eyes, especially here in the UK after Project Fear. Only the left trust the mainstream here, us centrists are sceptical of everything.*Now tell me we dont live in a state of propaganda.*I don't believe I did. Are other people speaking to you? are they speaking to you right now? Are they using numerology to do it?There is corruption in media, in government, in most power structures. That does not equate to fetuses are being aborted to fuel some big industry.*Fox has no public reach in America, if you are a politician or anyone who wants to get their voice heard nationally you go on the Big 4 and not Fox.*Aaaaand?*Also if I remember correctly The Sun is an asset of Rupert Murdoch*You say that like it's supposed to mean something.
Dislikes are from Democrats, learn your guys' history. The future Dems will be looking back on you guys like "WTF these dudes were racist dumbasses" just as you currently are judging your predecessors
You need a couthanger? i am a certified home practitioner. YouTube schooled
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You paint this as if the woman is getting a boob job, the reason pro-lifers get involved is the choice is not about the woman but the baby.
It is about the woman 🤦♀️ If the woman feels guilt after those are her consequences. Everything has consequences of some kind 🤷♀️ Another person's uterus is not our concern... it can be argued that the fetus is a parasite in the first stages of development. The only time it really becomes an issue is if abortion is a repetitive thing and she doesn't try to prevent future pregnancies and she knows damn well she doesn't want to be pregnant but that doesn't happen often.If pro lifers really are advocates for the children then go start adopting/fostering the children that landed in the system for whatever reason. Take care of the children that are already here and need advocates. Maybe go fix the system and women might feel better about birthing their child and sending the child into the system if they see people more engaged with the kids already here 💁♀️
That symbol is inserting itself
Most pro-lifers do advocate for these things which you'd know if you took the time to unbiasedly look into the movement.It actually cannot be argued that the unborn baby is a parasite, which again you'd know if you knew anything about parasites or unborn children. You're right on the uterus part though I do not give a single shit about anyones uterus, I do give a shit about people and children though so the second there is a child involved inside a uterus or not that all changes. Abortion is always an issue, you're ending a life see it as a child or not that is the truth and to act as if that is nothing is sickening to me.
Or whatever the circumstance may be: in example being raped.
One thing is identifying an act as sin and immoral. Another thing is see the sins of the others not bigger than my own sins.
If u murder someone u shud cry urself to sleep especially if its ur own child
And one can argue is that life of foster care and struggle a quality of life worth living? 9 knew many a kid to go threw state systems and most of then where suicidal and had tons of issues mentally that would effect them for life. With that being the case i never understood how some people even attempt to argue that abortions are immoral.
No kidding.. save all the babies blah blah blah but no one wants to help take care of them all. It’s a broken system
That's a really self-centred view. "I want to have a baby, so everyone else must be forced to have a baby too".You want a baby, get one from adoption, we got plenty of kids! If someone doesn't want one, why would force them to have it?Basically you're saying "I'm lactose intolerant, I wish I eat an ice cream! Everyone should be force fed ice cream everyday."
Not just that. People actually believe the fetus isn’t going to be a baby but it’s just a clump of cells.
@Gia190 As Mr. Ben Shapiro said, we are all just a clump of cells if you want to get nitty gritty about it. So it's not really an argument.
I’m not defending them. I’m just saying what they believe. I personally find abortion is immoral.
@Gia190 I didn't say you were, and I agree it is. At least in most cases. I am willing to see extreme instances, such as when the mother's life is in danger. The problem is people who take marginal cases to argue on the general scale of wide access to abortion.
Other than that, it's not their baby, at last it's always up to the one being pregnant.
There is always adoption
Well said. I'd point out as others elsewhere have, that if the mother & fetus are killed in a accident it counts as two murders. Life discovered on Mars would only have to qualify as a single cell.
Anyways into more serious stuff. Not every case of abortion would be the same, some people would do it because of anything they lack to the baby, trauma of abuse , lack of money, even if the mother knows would not give it a good life. You cannot just assume a person can be immoral just because she got an abortion.
Hmmm yet than we allow millions of muslim immigrants in every year... yeah makes sense. How about: women are twisted and hate their own unborn kids.
Why paint with such a broad brush?
I respect your thought and opinion. But should we legally force men to donate organs to dying kids?
@OddBeMe Taking a life and saving one is two different things, I see the point you're trying to make though. Also unrelated, but I forgot to mention contraceptives in my comment, I think we should better encourage people to use that and be safe.
We agree on contraceptives. But my point was that the gov shouldn’t have the right to control anyone’s bodies. Regardless of whether you think the bean size fetus is a person.
@OddBeMe Well it depends on where you draw the line, can only the government not control anyone's body or can no one do it? Because if no one can then it's arguable that the mother shouldn't have control over what happens to the person inside her. Is the fetus/baby it's own being or is it just an extension of the mother? In my opinion (once again not carrying much weight) unborn babies are like a conjoined twin to the mother, in that they are attached but two separate lives. It's hard to describe so I hope you see what I'm getting at.
What? What do you mean? The second book of the bible?
Yeah, you know the whole eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth bit, abuse which kills a foetus gets a fine from the magistrate.
That was before the new law came into effect
@dseaveyforevs no the bible is quite clear, life begins with the first breath. New Testament and Old.
@Anpu23 That's true. I didn't look at it like that
By whose standards would they be seen as evil?
Nobody aborts their baby that far into the pregnancy.. It's only legal to abort a baby upto to 12 weeks and in extreme cases 20 weeks. It would be completely illegal (and you would never find a medical practitioner who would do that for you) for anything past 20 weeks, let alone 8 - 9 months?
Well elected officials in my state pushed for late term abortions, to which many people dont agree with including me. In my opinion, the only time an abortion should occur is when its rape or the mothers health isn't to good..
Who needs a coathanger by the way
If they doesn't want a child they should have used condome.. if u dtupid enough to get pregnant when u dont want kid.. then they better abort themselves
@girlinthemirror literally every form of birth control can fail
Birth control does fail (i know from experience). Some people are also quite lax about it and dont think about the consequences.
Oh yeah for sure. I know people who just didn't use it and got pregnant. It just annoys the hell out of me when people say "just wear a condom!" because condoms fail more than most other forms of birth control and just because someone got pregnant accidentally, it doesn't mean they didn't use protection.
@Inexpensivefurniture lol.. condoms r most safe birth control that ever exist.. get pregnant mostly those who dont know the word RESPONSIBILITY.. they use abortions as birth control
@girlinthemirror Barrier methods of contraception like condoms/diaphragms/etc are less effective than hormonal birth control. Condoms boast 98% effectiveness, but that is with perfect use every time. Actually, accidental pregnancy with condom use is still around 15%, and up to 40% of people who use condoms have had one rip while they were using it. Condoms are far from the safest method of birth control.www.nbcnews.com/.../condom-use-101-basic-errors-are-so-common-study-finds-207925
The pill can fail. Especially if other medications are being taken.Everyone ought to take responsibility for birth control, but no matter how careful you are there is a small percentage of risk that it will fail, even if you're using the pill and condoms.
pills + condoms.. alsomst 100%...
@girlinthemirror Yes exactly. "Almost" is the key word. And we weren't talking about condoms in tandem with another form of birth control, we were just talking about condoms. Of course using more than one method is gonna be much safer
Which ever combination of contraceptives were used, statistically there would still be a chance of pregnancy. Even a one in 10 million chance would still result in a handfull of pregnancies each year.
We have to check our moral with the Word of God.
@standardguy Not everyone have the same "God"
There is only one God, the rest are just idols
@dseaveyforevs Also not everyone has thesame definition of "GOD" even if there's only one.
Well the only definition there is, is the God who created all people, the Heavens and the Earth, and every living thing. Also know as the Father of Jesus Christ
@dseaveyforevs And i believe God isn't irrational. I don't think God make a straw man argument about a fetus being a human life. You just demonstrated how one can be narcissistic about their religion even if they can't even 100% prove it
I believe that whatever the Bible says is true. I feel bad that you are ignorant to the fact that God is all powerful and Jesus is the Messiah, and that you don't understand that even though we have free will that God still wants us to abide by the laws of the Bible in the New Testaments because we are all under grace now.
@dseaveyforevs There is about 4,200 religions and thousands of different gods worshipped. Just because you think your 'God' is the only true 'God', Doesn't make it so.
@DovahKittyLady Yeah it does. Christianity is the only religion in the world that has a sacred text (the Bible) where things have come true to what it says. I'm sorry that you and @Aiko_E_Lara are ignorant. Please forgive me because neither of you can comprehend what I am saying.
You trying to dismiss argument by calling me ignorant? Because that did it really work before so don't expect that it will still work now. You just want to call people ignorant just because you don't like what i'm saying how sad and you cannot even elaborate that
@dseaveyforevs the bible is the only one that says "this one guv". so. it must be that one then
And the thing is every religious book claims the religion is the true religion which is what causes wars. It's quite ironic to say that "though shall not kill" but it's ok to kill someone just because they have a different religion.
@dseaveyforevs You are obviously ignorant to anything outside of your bible. Your religion is not relevant to the majority of people on this planet! So before you call me or Aiko ignorant. Look beyond your bible.