And by abandon, I do mean abortion.
But as a man, you'll never have to get through 9 months of pregnancy. Many men get away with it without having to pay anything at all.
I’m sure there’s men out here who would surrogate their own child if it meant stopping an abortion. But that’s not possible. Your argument isn’t fair. You didn’t choose your body and neither did men. My argument is more about the life that’s being aborted.
What do you men by "I didn't choose my body"?
You didn’t choose to be born a woman. Being a woman means that most likely you’re able to support life inside of you. But you didn’t choose to have that ability just like men didn’t decide not to have that ability. A man can’t decide to carry life inside of him for 9 months because it’s not possible. That’s why the argument is weird to me. Women can decide to take the life of a child, but they can’t decide whether life begins to grow inside of them or not. It’s a consequence of sex.
Yes. No matter what we wanna think we're not the same. We have to deal with these differences. Most of these differences are the source of women's oppression by men.
That's probably the core issue, yes.
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But wasting a woman's life is fine, hu?
No. If her life is medically in danger then I can be ok with it. As for "wasting" 9 months, the choice was hers to take action to stop the pregnancy. To kill a baby because it is inconvenient is wrong. Also, the woman has had a chance to live life while the baby has not. Again, if it comes down to abortion vs. both dying then fine. That is the ONLY time I'd be ok with it.
What about men then? Shouldn't they keep it in their pants?
All the time?
Vasectomies also work almost 100% of the time. Done carefully you can garuntee it.
@meesegoMoo Did you do it?
Looking at my age, no. Once I get the money and some time off I'm getting the snip. I think it's much better for men to be the ones getting sterilized for the sake of practicality.
You meant "cells", right?
I agree.I don't understand how adoption can be so hard while so many people have kids when they shouldn't...
We do need adoption reform. The people who I know that adopted their kids did so by either meeting the parent giving them up or knowing one of the kids relatives.
@meesegoMoo Yes, it should be.
That's a good reason.The problem is men never take responsibility about it.
This is why I suggest women should always carry condoms if sex is a possibility. That way there can be no excuse.Also have the guts and sense to simply refuse sex if contraception isn't available at the time.
Men should carry condoms actually.
Sure, but as you said yourself they don't always take responsibility. So if women who expect to have sex carry them as well, then there's no excuse.
Women don't have penises. At some point, men's gonna have to take responsibility for their actions. One of the biggest problems nowadays is how society encourages men irresponsibility. If a woman is pregnant, it's Her fault, if a woman asks for divorce, it's HER fault if the marriage is over, if a man cheats, it's HER fault, if a woman is rape, it's HER fault, if men have issues with mommy, it's women's fault... Always women's fault... How convenient...
Unfortunately now you're just making sweeping generalisations with no basis in fact. It takes two to make a baby, if you don't want to take the precaution of bringing a condom with you, that's on you. Guys can forget these things, especially since women historically make the decision on whether or not sex is on the table so a guy can't always expect it to happen.The rest of the stuff you mention as I said, are generalisations and nothing more.
As always... Men are forgotten for their mistakes but women have to pay for them...
Women are not blame free, neither are men. The world isn't so black and white.
Of course, women can be blame. Though, they're way more often blame than men for unwanted pregnancy and for raising their kids alone...
Well, those are scientific issues. They aren't for anyone to decide in my opinion.
Is ANYTHING a decision for ANYBODY? I really wish replies let me use italics, I hate using caps because they look angry rather than simply as emphasis.The point is, what is life and when should it be protected? Are there any methods of abortion you oppose? What about kids born-alive, do they deserve medical treatment or to die of neglect?
I'm not anti-abortion actually.
Did I implicate that you might be? I know you're pro-abortion which is why I made those points.
As far as I'm concerned : not born = not alive.This isn't scientifically true but to me, you can't waste the life of someone who's already born with something that's unborn. When unborn, its existence is just parasitic.
The issue with that is your logic can be applied to adults. Are disabled people alive? What about old people?And how is letting a kid live wasting the other person's life?
Are they born? Do they brain work based on EEG? Then yes.If a woman was raped, then reminding her one of the most traumatic events in her life isn't wasting her life? If she doesn't want a kid, how can having to take care of one not wasting her life?
Who says she has to take care of it? Is adoption that terrible? And it's not at all wasting her life. The kid did nothing wrong and how she processes trauma is up to her as an adult.I consider forced marriage/ cult's that pressure and harass people into sex as rape, I don't think that's to far out. I've met VERY caring mothers who've escaped places like that with their children. They often seem happiest near their kids, but if they had no desire to be mothers they could still give the kid up.Having people do things to you're body that leaves something permanent isn't fun, but it's not the end-all-be-all of terrible either.
Do you have any idea how awful pregnancy can be? How damaging it can be to be pregnant when you don't want to?
To some degree. I'm personally familiar with other physically damaging acts against a person's will. I was a kid for most of them, but I no longer have a hope of my legs working properly because of them. Life's rough all around but we should still be as good and decent as we possibly can be.Also very few abortions are actually do to rape. When two adults consent to an act that might produce another human they need to understand what consequences that might have.
Sure, but there are other ways to think about the about to born kid that it just wanted to be born. Doesn't a kid want or should be able to meet its biological parents? Shouldn't it be loved and wanted? We're aware of the damages of being born in a family that didn't want the child and the long term effects of this trauma so...
Dying is less damaging? And why would he ever need to meet the bio parents? Many do just fine without them. If a kid's adopted than it's almost certainly wanted. Even unwanted kids raised by abusive parents can turn out all right.
Do most never ever want to meet their biological parents? I'm not so sure.Would you be OK with having to deal with pregnancy for 9 months for a kid you don't even want?
It honestly doesn't seem unreasonable. I carried furniture down 4 flights of stairs without a working ACL, MCL, or LCL and I was bleeding decently inside. I did that for people who's interactions with me were limited to breaking my toe, framing me for doing terrible things as a kid, and calling me a faggot. I didn't have any intention of gaining their favor, I just knew one of them was going through some medical stuff that would make the task difficult so I did it for him.I used to do stuff like that on a regular basis. As a VERY preventable consequence of sex it seems completely reasonable.
So what? Am I ready to waste my life for an unwanted kid? No.
So it's a matter of selfishness?
No, it's a matter of who's got the most responsibility and constraints. Men don't have any problems with pregnancy. Of course, they don't even get through it lol.
Some women have no problem hopping on trashy men. You could choose not to sleep with garbage. And you just contradicted your own logic. Is it better for the kid or is it sacrificing one life to enable the irresponsibility of another?
I see your point. My opinion is about both side actually.I have a problem with irresponsibility and yes, people should get educated about contraception. The part of it wasting a girl's life is part of my argument. The other concerns the idea of an unwanted child to come to life. I'm not sure this will be good for him/her.
Life is not death. That's all. A painful childhood can have it's better moments and lead to a happy adulthood. Death is death.And to waste a person's life is fine. It's 9 months and due to her own decision. If I decided to play videogames in a basement for 5 years nobody would mourn me, nor should they.
Or it could have been a mass murder...
True but even Hitler did not become the way that he did if it wasn't for him contracting syphilis.
So condemning a baby before it is born could be held against us up above somehow down the line of reincarnation.
Your investment is lesser though.
Cells aren't a body.
It's like saying socks are part of your feet
Plus you were a "clump of cells" too, weren't you?
And what if your parents decided to get rid of you for no apparent reason?
So basically you're saying until a baby is born, it's just a clump of cells. I have the right to live but the "clump of cells doesn't
Yes, of course.
That's so entitled of you
Aren't you the entitled one?
Maybe, I have a very big mouth on things I disagree with
And waste 9 months of your life hu?Yes, sure. How easy it is to say so...
It doesn't work at 100% though...
Try not doing it that's 100%. Or is it easier to just get rid of it?
I can't speak for myself. I'm not so crazy about sex and I'm very much into condoms so... Lol
Good, try using some spermicide as well. Adds to the protection...
Sorry but it's just cells and during a pretty long time. After that, this is basically parasitism.
Whatever you say, wuss. That's why you are scared to reveal yourself and hide being anonymous.Science has proven that life starts at conception.
LolScience has never proved that. Sorry for you and your insults.
Because men take responsibility for their actions. Stop your BS.
It's a baby. A human baby
No, it's not even born.
It's called a baby when born. And fetus (latin for baby) when in uterine. Either way it's a distinctive separate human with it's own DNA.